My landlord is selling the house we live in and his agent wants to show our apartment to pot. buyer

Paperboywriter · Nov 16, 2018

So how should I react. They want to show our apartment to a potential buyer and they want to make an appointment.

It took them 5-6 months at the very least to come up with someone who wants to take a look. The apartment below us is in terrible state and has to be renovated from the ground up.

I already talked to the agent and he seems to be a decent guy, from what i could tell. I'm not looking to srew them over or make things difficult. I just want to keep living here.

to be fair: We have a great deal here, without any rent increase in the last 2 years, that will definitely change with a new owner.
also: right now we are using the garden and garage, that will also change with a new owner.

Worst case though: A new owner throws us out and we have to move.

What should I do?

btw.: they are trying to sell this house for almost 400000€. you would have to invest another 100000€ for renovations at least. Its close to Frankfurt, Germany. The price is basically only the location.

bomma man · Nov 16, 2018

This is pretty meaningless without knowing the legal regime in your area. Maybe contact your local Tenants' Union?

Deleted member 42 · Nov 16, 2018

Let them look or they'll give you shit

Paperboywriter · Nov 16, 2018

bomma man said:
This is pretty meaningless without knowing the legal regime in your area. Maybe contact your local Tenants' Union?

should i make it nice looking? should i ask who is the potential buyer?

Ragnorok64 · Nov 16, 2018

I mean, what else is there to do other than to clean and lock up your valuables before they come? You're a renter not part owner.

The Climaxan · Nov 16, 2018

You don't own it. You can't do shit other than delay the potential buyer looking at it because of scheduling conflicts and you could probably only do that for so long without your current landlord getting pissed. And if you do that for too long and the owner doesn't think they could sell the property because you're in it, then you could potentially get kicked out anyways. once your rental agreement is up.

I had this scenario happen to me when I was in college. The house sold during our lease. They honored it through the end but after that we were out. It sucks but such is the life of a renter.

Viewt · Nov 16, 2018

I was in the exact same scenario last year. The process itself was fine, if occasionally annoying since you have to be ready to have your apartment walked through on a day's notice. The new owner ended up being a douche, though, so we moved after our lease ended.

Grym · Nov 16, 2018

I assume the owner has the right to show the place as part of the contract you signed. As a renter, is there anything you can do? I wouldn't think so...

Kirblar · Nov 16, 2018

You're required to let them come in and look as a tenant, this is normal. It just requires sufficient advance notice.

HammerOfThor · Nov 16, 2018

I would imagine the owner has every right to show your unit to potential buyers, your just a renter. I know I'm allowed to show units to future renters where the tenant isn't going to be renewing. Just because your getting a good deal and don't want to leave/pay more isn't really the landlords issue.

But it looks like you don't live in the US so I'm not sure.

Maximus · Nov 16, 2018

Paperboywriter said:
should i make it nice looking? should i ask who is the potential buyer?

Where I live, as long as the owner gives you enough notice, you have to comply or they can just enter after X amount of hours with written notice. You as a tenant don't really have any right to know who the buyer is, be on the premises during the showing, etc where I live. If the new owner chooses to evict you, there aren't rules around that too. In terms of cleaning up the place, depends on the situation. If the place is a shithole, the owner can use that as evidence against you for eviction or take the damage deposit.

Just one of the realities of renting and it sucks when you have a good thing going.

Paperboywriter · Nov 16, 2018

Ragnorok64 said:
I mean, what else is there to do other than to clean and lock up your valuables before they come? You're a renter not part owner.

well im just not sure how to play this. I probebly prefer the old owner over the new one, so i guess the longer we stay in the old contract the better. on the other hand if it comes to a change, i dont want to get on the bad side of the new owner. i know for a fact that they also tried to rent out the apartment that is not occupied right now.

bomma man · Nov 16, 2018

Paperboywriter said:
should i make it nice looking? should i ask who is the potential buyer?

If you lived where I live I'd say no, and that you can but they don't have to give you that info unless it's sold, but believe it or not tenancy laws are not uniform across the world?

Also if you are on a fixed term lease where I live the new owner has to honour it. This stuff is kinda important so vague generalisations aren't going to be very useful for you.

I Don't Like · Nov 16, 2018

Time to start cleaning.

And hide your bong.

kaf · Nov 16, 2018

If it's a multi-unit dwelling, chances are they don't care about the state of your apartment, and will be renovating or tearing down the entire structure as part of their investment.

JHoNNy1OoO · Nov 16, 2018

Clean up a little and let them view the place as long as they give you proper notice. Don't be a dick because it's just going to get you kicked out.

Paperboywriter · Nov 16, 2018

the cant tear down the building because there is a shop with a 10 year lease downstairs.

they will either buy the building and renovate in the emty apartment or they will throw us out, live in our apartment and renovate the other apartment over time.

Ragnorok64 · Nov 16, 2018

Paperboywriter said:
well im just not sure how to play this. I probebly prefer the old owner over the new one, so i guess the longer we stay in the old contract the better. on the other hand if it comes to a change, i dont want to get on the bad side of the new owner. i know for a fact that they also tried to rent out the apartment that is not occupied right now.

Are you planning some sort of sitcom-style sabotage to ruin the deal or something? If they are seriously thinking about selling and talking about huge sums of money you have no sway in it. Those cogs are already turning. Might as well just clean the apartment so you don't look trashy to strangers.

NealMcCauley · Nov 16, 2018

Oh... potential.

Paperboywriter · Nov 16, 2018

Ragnorok64 said:
Are you planning some sort of sitcom-style sabotage to ruin the deal or something? If they are seriously thinking about selling and talking about huge sums of money you have to sway in it. Those cogs are already turning. Might as well just clean the apartment so you don't look trashy to strangers.

i would have to make a mess, to make it look bad.

But i do think that they are having big problems attracting buyers, because the location is good but only one buyer showed up in like 6 months.

Carolina Reaper · Nov 16, 2018

This is normal behavior. It's most definitely in your lease. You have literally no say in the matter. If the landlord is nice, he'll be courteous and let you choose a time.

xxracerxx · Nov 16, 2018

I fail to understand why you would have a problem with this.

Opto · Nov 16, 2018

Be sure to mention the alley cats and chain ghosts

Deleted member 1445 · Nov 16, 2018

Hmm, you're renting from a private person, not a company, right? In that case, you're not as well protected in Germany. You have to be reasonable in their request to have someone visit. And you can limit the amount of people at the same time, and during a visit, you only have to let in the potential buyer, you don't need to allow the owner in (from what I understood).

pantsattack · Nov 16, 2018

OP it sounds like you desire to keep renting the place even if the owner changes. All you can do is say so to them and wait. You can't keep on if the owner changes, you need a new lease. Either you get that or you don't.

The Albatross · Nov 16, 2018

SUcks that the house you're living in could be sold to someone, but there's really nothing you could or should do. The owner has a right to show the property to a potential buyer, and it'd probably be worse for you if you tried to ruin the property in some way or prevent that.

I remember when I was house shopping 10ish years ago, one of the houses I looked at had a family renting it and right away I just felt terrible about the idea of buying it... But this was at a time when the market was a real buyers' market, and so there were tons of options out there.

Paperboywriter · Nov 16, 2018

emesve said:
Hmm, you're renting from a private person, not a company, right? In that case, you're not as well protected in Germany. You have to be reasonable in their request to have someone visit. And you can limit the amount of people at the same time, and during a visit, you only have to let in the potential buyer, you don't need to allow the owner in (from what I understood).

im open to being reasonable but i also wanna be smart about it and get the best result for us. hence the thread ;) but thanks for the info, i keep that in mind.

hibikase · Nov 16, 2018

Paperboywriter said:
well im just not sure how to play this. I probebly prefer the old owner over the new one, so i guess the longer we stay in the old contract the better. on the other hand if it comes to a change, i dont want to get on the bad side of the new owner. i know for a fact that they also tried to rent out the apartment that is not occupied right now.

It's not like you have any real power in this decision. Just play along and don't make any unnecessary fuss.

Deleted member 1445 · Nov 16, 2018

Paperboywriter said:
im open to being reasonable but i also wanna be smart about it and get the best result for us. hence the thread ;) but thanks for the info, i keep that in mind.

Check here (and register yourself with a Mieterverein)
https://www.berliner-mieterverein.d...-wie-oft-tipps-und-musterschreiben-040628.htm

You can't "scare off" a potential buyer, but you are allowed to speak about any damages, and anything else, as long as its just facts about the building and stuff. And you can let the potential buyer know that you have no intention to move out, whatsoever, and that you're informed of your rights.

How long have you been renting there? Its unbefristet I assume?

Swauny Jones · Nov 16, 2018

If they want you out you can't do shit Paperboywriter . They're selling the place and as long as they give you ample notice within the required guidelines there really isn't anything you can do. Play nice because for all you know the new owners may be willing to work with you.

Paperboywriter · Nov 16, 2018

emesve said:
Check here (and register yourself with a Mieterverein)
https://www.berliner-mieterverein.d...-wie-oft-tipps-und-musterschreiben-040628.htm

You can't "scare off" a potential buyer, but you are allowed to speak about any damages, and anything else, as long as its just facts about the building and stuff. And you can let the potential buyer know that you have no intention to move out, whatsoever, and that you're informed of your rights.

How long have you been renting there? Its unbefristet I assume?

i can bring up a lot of flaws of the building if i wanted, not sure if i should. i would never buy the building myself, we are here because its insanely cheap to rent right now.

if you want to bring the building up to current standards your best bet is to tear it down and start again, and its probably not even more expansive.

xxracerxx · Nov 16, 2018

Why would you not want shit fixed if you think they are going to raise rent?

Deleted member 1445 · Nov 16, 2018

Paperboywriter said:
i can bring up a lot of flaws of the building if i wanted, not sure if i should. i would never buy the building myself, we are here because its insanely cheap to rent right now.

if you want to bring the building up to current standards your best bet is to tear it down and start again, and its probably not even more expansive.

Well, you can bring it up if you want to, it's your decision.

Torpedo Vegas · Nov 16, 2018

Swauny Jones · Nov 16, 2018

Paperboywriter said:
i can bring up a lot of flaws of the building if i wanted, not sure if i should. i would never buy the building myself, we are here because its insanely cheap to rent right now.

if you want to bring the building up to current standards your best bet is to tear it down and start again, and its probably not even more expansive.

You're playing with fire and honestly this is a battle that you'll lose. You've been there for 2 years and were fine with the place as is and now that they want to sell and you'll potentially be forced out you think complaining about repairs will change things. If I were you I'd start saving for a new place to stay.

shaneo632 · Nov 16, 2018

I don't really see the dilemma here. Don't be petty and let them hold viewings as long as they give reasonable notice.

This is the nature of renting dude.

Paperboywriter · Nov 16, 2018

xxracerxx said:
Why would you not want shit fixed if you think they are going to raise rent?

thats not the point. this building needs renovations from the ground up but its not failing. you can definitly life here without major problems, but if you were to buy it, i assume your standards would have to be higher than that.

Deleted member 36086 · Nov 16, 2018

Paperboywriter said:
i can bring up a lot of flaws of the building if i wanted, not sure if i should. i would never buy the building myself, we are here because its insanely cheap to rent right now.

if you want to bring the building up to current standards your best bet is to tear it down and start again, and its probably not even more expansive.

Doesn't matter. Any buyer who is serious about buying an income property will have an inspector check it out. If there are issues the buyer will negotiate with the seller for concessions.

Deleted member 1445 · Nov 16, 2018

Swauny Jones said:
You're playing with fire and honestly this is a battle that you'll lose. You've been there for 2 years and were fine with the place as is and now that they want to sell and you'll potentially be forced out you think complaining about repairs will change things. If I were you I'd start saving for a new place to stay.

They're talking about mentioning flaws to potential buyers, not complaining about repairs to the landlord. They can't force you out in Germany. If the landlord would want to cancel the lease, they wouldn't be able to do it just because the tenant is complaining. They would have to want to use the place for themselves, or would need to indicate that having tenants in lowers the value somehow of the building, or somesuch. Read this for info on what landlords can do if they want to cancel a lease:

https://www.mieterbund.de/mietrecht/ueberblick/kuendigungsschutz.html

Empress of ice cream · Nov 16, 2018

So, you are afraid that a potential buyer will invest in the property and then raise your rent? If your rent has not been raised for two years, this is almost guaranteed to happen.

You are obliged to let potential buyers see your apartment but you can require your current landlord or a representative to be present.

Deleted member 1445 · Nov 16, 2018

Here's some info on what they're allowed to do when it comes to increasing rent when you get a new landlord:

Strenge Auflagen für Mieterhöhungen
Die Miete darf der neue Vermieter bis zur ortsüblichen Vergleichsmiete erhöhen – "allerdings nur unter zwei Voraussetzungen", sagt Ropertz. Zum einen müsse die letzte Mieterhöhung mindestens zwölf Monate zurückliegen. Zum anderen dürfe die Miete innerhalb von drei Jahren nicht mehr als 20 Prozent heraufgesetzt werden. Die ortsübliche Vergleichsmiete ergibt sich aus Mietspiegeln oder wird von Gutachtern ermittelt. Bei einer Mieterhöhung wegen Modernisierung darf der Vermieter aber über die Vergleichsmiete hinausgehen. "Dann darf er elf Prozent der Modernisierungskosten auf die Miete umlegen. Solche Maßnahmen verbessern den Wohnwert erheblich und tragen meist wesentlich zur Energieersparnis bei. Davon profitiert der Mieter", sagt Löhlein.

Mieter sollten trotzdem genau im Blick haben: Reparaturen gelten nicht als Modernisierung. Sie müssen vom Vermieter aus der laufenden Miete bestritten werden und dürfen nicht in die Modernisierungskosten eingehen. Außerdem haben Mieter ein Recht auf Mietminderung, wenn sie durch die Modernisierungsarbeiten beeinträchtigt sind. Auch bei einer Mieterhöhung wegen Modernisierung gilt: Mieter sollten sich beraten lassen, zum Beispiel über Härteklauseln oder ob der Standard der Modernisierung angemessen ist.

https://www.merkur.de/leben/wohnen/wenn-vermieter-wechselt-darf-neue-eigentuemer-zr-874227.html

Swauny Jones · Nov 16, 2018

emesve said:
They're talking about mentioning flaws to potential buyers, not complaining about repairs to the landlord. They can't force you out in Germany. If the landlord would want to cancel the lease, they wouldn't be able to do it just because the tenant is complaining. They would have to want to use the place for themselves, or would need to indicate that having tenants in lowers the value somehow of the building, or somesuch. Read this for info on what landlords can do if they want to cancel a lease:

https://www.mieterbund.de/mietrecht/ueberblick/kuendigungsschutz.html

They can give 3 months notice and get them out if they really wanted to

Crumb · Nov 16, 2018

You should tell your landlord that you don't want them to sell. They should respect your wishes as you are the one paying their salary.

Deleted member 1445 · Nov 16, 2018

Swauny Jones said:
They can give 3 months notice and get them out if they really wanted to

Only when they have one of the grounds mentioned in that link.

Swauny Jones · Nov 16, 2018

emesve said:
Only when they have one of the grounds mentioned in that link.

Yes but say they're doing major reno to the place or even possibly tearing it down. The tenant would have to leave.

Wood Man · Nov 16, 2018

Same thing happened to us with our first apartment. We were there for a couple years, rent was good, comfortable. A buyer came along and it sold quickly. We had no choice but to move out in a few months.

Sounds like you're there until the owner finds a buyer. If this person doesn't buy, expect another one along the way. Start looking for a new place. It sucks but that's renting for ya.

Deleted member 23850 · Nov 16, 2018

Fuck the housing crisis.

Runwhiteboyrun · Nov 16, 2018

Crumb said:
You should tell your landlord that you don't want them to sell. They should respect your wishes as you are the one paying their salary.

Was this supposed to have a /s that I missed?

Deleted member 1445 · Nov 16, 2018

Swauny Jones said:
Yes but say they're doing major reno to the place or even possibly tearing it down. The tenant would have to leave.

Only temporarily, if its necessary for renovations. They would have to provide housing in the meanwhile then too. Unless they're renovating with the intent of removing any housing, and just using it comercially or something. The most that could happen then, is that they want to raise the rent because of improvement. In that case, as I posted in the other link above, there's also restrictions on in which circumstances, and how much, they can raise the rent.

Lifendz · Nov 16, 2018

I went through this a few years back and yes, it's a pain in the ass. The first few times my apartment was shown I tried to clean up a little the night before. After four months of it, I stopped cleaning up and would just leave the keys. I told the realtor that I'm out of my apartment for upwards of 14 hours a day and with only a day's notice, I can't keep trying to make my place look like a model apartment. Thankfully my apartment sold and I don't have to go through that crap anymore.

My landlord is selling the house we live in and his agent wants to show our apartment to pot. buyer

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