Easy Allies |OT| The New Era

I just woke up for the day and caught up with the thread. Ian is a wonderful human being, I've got so much respect for him. It's amazing how thoughtful and patient he is.
Wishing Huber's brother a speedy recovery, I really hope it's not serious.

On another note, I'll probably also drop my pledge on Patreon. I'm pretty sad about it since I've been contributing since the beginning. I love EZA and I respect Jones but non-answers is not what's needed right now. I'll continue to follow them but I don't feel I can continue to give them my money with a clean conscience with the way this whole situation has been handled. It was frankly disappointing though maybe it's on me by now to learn to lower my expectations of other people.

Pachinko said:

Not sure what happened with Hubers brother but that's rough to hear , hope whatever it was is something he can jump back from. On the topic of Brendon Jones deciding to have a chat with flagboy ... well you know what ? Brendan doesn't represent EZA and HIS values aren't Colins. Perhaps he feels he owes the guy something because KF helped EZA out when it first started ? before Colin said any of the most abhorrent garbage he's now known for. I don't necessarily feel that Jones deciding to talk about games is an endorsement of Colins politics but you know, there are repercussions - this WILL lose them patrons , possibly for good unless Brendon changes his mind. Honestly ? I'd be pissed and probably stop supporting these guys altogether if it went the other way (I'm only at the 5$ tier) but this isn't an EZA collab with flagboy. It's just Brendon sitting down or even doing a skype call for an hour with someone that helped him out in the past. Best course of action ? just voice your disappointment with his decision and don't watch whatever that chat ends up being. Unless Colins gross politics leak into EZA there isn't a problem with EZA or Jones for that matter.

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I might agree with you if Colin hadn't started abusing EZA community members and sicking his fanbase on them. At that point it's really simple: You either think it's unacceptable and take action or you don't care. Jones doesn't care.

LiquidSolid said:

I might agree with you if Colin hadn't started abusing EZA community members and sicking his fanbase on them. At that point it's really simple: You either think it's unacceptable and take action or you don't care. Jones doesn't care.

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Seems like talking to the person in question could in fact be considered to be "taking action"?

In fact, some might say it is pretty much the maximal kind of action

One thing is going on Colin's show, another is avoiding taking a stance or at least showing what you think of it.

A person who has been mean and critical of other allies, who used their fanbase to harrass a fellow patreon just because he expressed his concerns about this collaboration do not deserve a pass.

If any of his followers start showing up in the EZA community I will withdrawn my patreon support.

Elfforkusu said:

Seems like talking to the person in question could in fact be considered as "taking action"?

In fact, some might say it is pretty much the maximal kind of action

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Even if you assume Jones will bring it up (he won't), how on earth is taking part in Colin's patreon-exclusive show the "maximal" kind of action? If anything, it's an endorsement.

I believe Damiani has appeared on a Gamexplain video before discussing Zelda. I would enjoy seeing the Allies interact with Ash (since I think they're all in LA)!

I'm not in favor of the collaboration with Colin. Honestly, it feels weird talking about it given the forum's stance to not give him a platform. It's fuzzy to me what is and isn't allowed.

Edited to focus on the topic at hand.

JayC3 said:

At least on the Colin front, I think the Resetera staff mostly don't want to give him a platform to promote and spread his work. We've been criticizing the hell out him in this thread, and that's been okay so far (there have been a few mod appearances and they haven't told us to stop). We probably shouldn't link to Jones' actual appearance on his show, though.

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That makes sense. Given that he's going through with it, I'm hopeful. Colin can steer conversations pretty effectively, but Jones can hold his own too. I really hope Colin doesn't try make the whole talk around the controversy of them appearing together, because I could see that happening.

(I will edit my post since the other bit is not so related. I wasn't part of the old country so it seemed weird to have rules in places which revolved around the old country given this forum is something brand new.)

Are we sure the show Jones is going on is Patron-exclusive? I've seen that said a few times, but I searched for the show in PocketCasts and it came up (and I'm definitely not a CLS patron).

LiquidSolid said:

Even if you assume Jones will bring it up (he won't), how on earth is taking part in Colin's patreon-exclusive show the "maximal" kind of action? If anything, it's an endorsement.

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If your actual concern is Colin abusing his platform, a conversation with him (perhaps off the record, perhaps not, depends how receptive Colin might be) would seem to be perhaps the most viable course of action towards making that stop. Whether you like it or not, the dude has a platform, and no amount of blacklisting is going to make that go away. Just because it feels good doesn't mean it's effective.

I can't believe people are still going on about this. It's is inconsequential that I find it hard to believe that people are spending so much time and energy on this.

Like you can't be a patron without a clear conscience? I mean there are probably more products you buy which directly contribute to actual injustices yet this is where many of you draw the line.

If eza had a show with Colin then maybe it would be an issue. An Ally going on any one else's gaming show really shouldn't matter and having a few people dictate who allies can collaborate or talk to would set a bad precedent. So the allies shouldn't talk to or be friends with anyone if someone in the community doesn't like them?

Anti said:

If any of his followers start showing up in the EZA community I will withdrawn my patreon support.

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While it is your money and you have the right do to so, I am sure not every person who likes Colin/Colin's content (probably people who followed him since KF) is the same way as he is. Maybe I am too gullible in this, but I can not believe there are no decent people in the group of people who watches his stuff. Of course I also don't want the people who harass other people in our community, but I am not sure if it's good for EZA to shut the community off from every new patron/community member because they possibly have ideas that don't agree with most of us. And if some asshole people happen to get in the community and they start harassing community members, their comments will be shut down anyway and they will probably leave after a while. I don't feel I have the right to say who is welcome in the EZA community and who isn't.

We will see what's going to happen, maybe it won't have any impact at all from that side and it's only EZA patrons that will drop.

I believe people read more into this than it actually will be. They are going to talk videogames as far as I can see, not politics.
That said, Jones is possibly going to get a lot of hate from some of Colin's fans. There is a good possibility that they don't want Jones on their show either.

Anti said:

If any of his followers start showing up in the EZA community I will withdrawn my patreon support.

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But those type of people are already part of the eza community whether we like it or not. Just read the YouTube comments any week, or on any of Ian's videos. I'm sure a majority of those haters are youtube subscribers. They may or may not be patrons but they are part of the larger community. Just look at the other eza discord that was talked about back when this thread was started.

I guess my point is you can't control who likes or consumes what you like. Do you walk out of a movie and and ask for a refund if trump supporters like it as well? Should we stop eating Papa John's because some neo Nazis supposedly like it?

Elfforkusu said:

If your actual concern is Colin abusing his platform, a conversation with him (perhaps off the record, perhaps not, depends how receptive Colin might be) would seem to be perhaps the most viable course of action towards making that stop. Whether you like it or not, the dude has a platform, and no amount of blacklisting is going to make that go away. Just because it feels good doesn't mean it's effective.

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The time to talk to Colin as if he's a reasonable adult who listens to criticism has long since passed. People have tried, he doesn't give a shit. So no, that's one approach that's been proven to be the least effective.

DemonSwordsman said:

But those type of people are already part of the eza community whether we like it or not. Just read the YouTube comments any week, or on any of Ian's videos. I'm sure a majority of those haters are youtube subscribers. They may or may not be patrons but they are part of the larger community. Just look at the other eza discord that was talked about back when this thread was started.

I guess my point is you can't control who likes or consumes what you like. Do you walk out of a movie and and ask for a refund if trump supporters like it as well? Should we stop eating Papa John's because some neo Nazis supposedly like it?

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No-ones telling you how to spend your money. People are making their own decisions and there's no "we" here, just individuals making decisions about where their money goes It's a lot easier to stop paying for videos about video games with a strong emphasis on community when you're not enjoying the direction of the community rather than your examples.

I mean, Papa Johns specifically appealed to that crowd with it's NFL kneeling comments, then realised the bad press they were getting so had to ask racists not to buy their pizza... Only after stock dropped 24% of course. But there's plenty of reasons not to eat Papa Johns anyway, like the gazillion better pizza places.

DemonSwordsman said:

I can't believe people are still going on about this. It's is inconsequential that I find it hard to believe that people are spending so much time and energy on this.

Like you can't be a patron without a clear conscience? I mean there are probably more products you buy which directly contribute to actual injustices yet this is where many of you draw the line.

If eza had a show with Colin then maybe it would be an issue. An Ally going on any one else's gaming show really shouldn't matter and having a few people dictate who allies can collaborate or talk to would set a bad precedent. So the allies shouldn't talk to or be friends with anyone if someone in the community doesn't like them?

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I don't think I've seen a single person say that Jones can't be friends with or talk to Colin. This is specifically about collaborating officially. Personally, what makes me more uncomfortable than anything else is that he didn't say that Colin wouldn't be coming on EZA shows, just that it would be unlikely... because they rarely collaborate with anyone at all. We didn't really get a clear cut response, so we're left trying to guess what he means. I don't think Colin will appear on any EZA shows, but the inability to address that as well as a lot of other issues leaves me feeling really disappointed.

Lexad said:

I thought that was Greg that took issue with bosman

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No, no no. This was not Greg. It was David Jaffe who likened Bosman to "All the mean-spirited crap that I hate about games journalism" at KF's PSX panel and Greg was trying to keep up the apperances, as was Shuhei Yoshida.

Colin only commented on how Bosman made fun of KF on The Final Bosman but he merely expressed disappointment, not distaste or dislike. I don't think there's any problem between these guys.

Asbsand said:

No, no no. This was not Greg. It was David Jaffe who likened Bosman to "All the mean-spirited crap that I hate about games journalism" at KF's PSX panel and Greg was trying to keep up the apperances, as was Shuhei Yoshida.

Colin only commented on how Bosman made fun of KF on The Final Bosman but he merely expressed disappointment, not distaste or dislike. I don't think there's any problem between these guys.

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Colin started clapping when David Jaffe said that. I think that's what people are referring to.

I love these guys but they have a problem when it comes to acknowledging issues, especially those of a "more political" nature. They are unusually reticent when it comes to discussing them (I'm taking more recently like sexual harassment scandals, Colin, and the like).

I don't need an eloquently worded statement, or them to try and pretend or try to solve anything. But, I do want them to acknowledge them, to bring them up at least.

It took a while for them to talk about all the sexual harassment news, and honestly while Ian may not have been articulate, he did finally lay their position or there. Now Jones seems to be doing the opposite by ignoring the concerns with working Colin, willfully or not.

Well anyway, that's my half asleep rant on this. It probably don't make a whole lot of sense.

Well I for one am excited about Jones and Colin podcasting. These two bring a unique perspective on gaming and hope it comes to fruition. I'm one who tends to focus on positives so seeing these two communities come together would hopefully expand the EZA audience.
Very upset to read a few people were compelled to unsub for various reasons. And so since I have a new steady income stream I feel finally able to subscribe to the EZA patreon and show my appreciation and support for all those who work tirelessly to provide entertaining games coverage.
Love and Respect brehs

DemonSwordsman said:

I can't believe people are still going on about this. It's is inconsequential that I find it hard to believe that people are spending so much time and energy on this.

Like you can't be a patron without a clear conscience? I mean there are probably more products you buy which directly contribute to actual injustices yet this is where many of you draw the line.

If eza had a show with Colin then maybe it would be an issue. An Ally going on any one else's gaming show really shouldn't matter and having a few people dictate who allies can collaborate or talk to would set a bad precedent. So the allies shouldn't talk to or be friends with anyone if someone in the community doesn't like them?

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Not a great strawman since a product has numerous people behind it, creator, marketing, managers, CEO ect, a Patreon is solely (majority) putting your money towards that one person. A movie has hundreds of people behind it but someone may boycott it because of the director, some a main actor, others maybe an animator its up to them, not with a patreon there is only one person that is getting the money and is responsible for themselves. Don't see the issue with people not wanting to support or involve themselves with someone who has made some racist, sexist remarks before, who parrots certain information white supremacists like to use, who somehow thinks "the left" is ruining the modern world, who has a habit of playing victim while simultaneously punching down.
Colin used to be my favorite KF person I liked his perspective and different attitude towards gaming and hell even his political views on certain topics, however the election clearly twisted him and made him show his true colors, hell maybe it was always there I don't know only knew his political stance from The Podcasts, but its clear the direction he has gone in and the one that was bound to make him the most profit.

Gryflet said:

Well I for one am excited about Jones and Colin podcasting. These two bring a unique perspective on gaming and hope it comes to fruition. I'm one who tends to focus on positives so seeing these two communities come together would hopefully expand the EZA audience.
Very upset to read a few people were compelled to unsub for various reasons. And so since I have a new steady income stream I feel finally able to subscribe to the EZA patreon and show my appreciation and support for all those who work tirelessly to provide entertaining games coverage.
Love and Respect brehs

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What makes you upset about that though, I don't get the big deal.

Holundrian said:

What makes you upset about that though, I don't get the big deal.

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Upset about people unsubbing from EZA patroen? Well I just want EZA to have continued success and unsubscribing is a detriment to their funding. Pretty simple, no?

Gryflet said:

Upset about people unsubbing from EZA patroen? Well I just want EZA to have continued success and unsubscribing is a detriment to their funding. Pretty simple, no?

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Pretty sure that EZA will have continued success and I believe people have raised the pledges in answer to some unsubs there was no huge financial loss so 0 reason to be upset. But even if there was financial loss that would still very much on EZA going into a direction that enough people are not agreeing with. So I don't see the point in being upset with the people just voting with their wallets. That would be akin to getting upset at people for not buying the new battlefront or similar.

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Catching up on the mole stream, man already hoping that this concept returns in the future well done tregard. I think streams like that were the audience can get involved guessing are really fun.

Holundrian said:

0 reason to be upset. That would be akin to getting upset at people for not buying the new battlefront

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Well maybe if I liked the new battlefront... LOL.
Just to be clear I'm not upset at the people themselves. I'm upset they are losing subscribers. There is a distinction there I don't think you're getting.

I see

Props to Brandon. I know it's tough for some of the EZA fans around these parts to swallow, but it seems you're fringe/extreme rather than mainstream.

Reason has seemingly prevailed for now. Huzzah.
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As usual, major oversimplifications below.

For the record I'm a left leaning trump hating democrat. I just have the ability to recognize the extremism that's been taking hold of the left recently.

DrMario said:

Props to Brandon. I know it's tough for some of the EZA fans around these parts to swallow, but it seems you're fringe/extreme rather than mainstream.

Reason has seemingly prevailed for now. Huzzah.

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Yes, you are right. With Trump in the Whitehouse, racists like Colin are mainstream.

You've figured it out completely. Bravo.

DrMario said:

Props to Brandon. I know it's tough for some of the EZA fans around these parts to swallow, but it seems you're fringe/extreme rather than mainstream.

Reason has seemingly prevailed for now. Huzzah.

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Yes people that sympathize with marginalized groups getting shit on is indeed very fringe. "Got mine fuck you" is quite mainstream.
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Dunno why you bring up your political leanings up. Racist and sexist remarks as well as instigating harassment are not the territory of politics(EU view).
I'm so sorry that my low tolerance for that is so low it counts as extremism.

DrMario said:

Props to Brandon. I know it's tough for some of the EZA fans around these parts to swallow, but it seems you're fringe/extreme rather than mainstream.

Reason has seemingly prevailed for now. Huzzah.

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You have only posted in this thread to antagonise people regarding the Colin issue. Well, besides your first post which simply said l+r, ironically. Are you going to contribute in a more positive way?

Toon Link said:

Colin started clapping when David Jaffe said that. I think that's what people are referring to.

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It's probably not even because Colin dislikes Kyle. He just thrives on negativity.

Toon Link said:

You have only posted in this thread to antagonise people regarding the Colin issue. Well, besides your first post which simply said l+r, ironically. Are you going to contribute in a more positive way?

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On this thread? Likely not. You guys have already made it clear that differing viewpoints aren't welcome here. Why continue to subject myself to that? Even your characterization that i came here intially to"antagonise" instead of just present a different side is basically all you need to know about this thread.

I interact with plenty of other (much more reasonable) EZA fans on other social platforms. So you guys can have this one. I'm just happy knowing Brandon didn't cave to the pressures of the extreme left of his fan base.


Dr. Mario out.

Anyways...

My M+R arrived yesterday. Played it a bit and I'm really enjoying it. I wish it was a bit more challenging but I'm really liking the combo system. The humors largely a miss for me, but boy do I love the style of the world.

DrMario said:

On this thread? Likely not. You guys have already made it clear that differing viewpoints aren't welcome here. Why continue to subject myself to that? Even your characterization that i came here intially to"antagonise" instead of just present a different side is basically all you need to know about this thread.

I interact with plenty of other (much more reasonable) EZA fans on other social platforms. So you guys can have this one. I'm just happy knowing Brandon didn't cave to the pressures of the extreme left of his fan base.


Dr. Mario out.

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You spent a copious amount of time attacking the character of a member who posted in this thread, so I don't see how else I could describe your behaviour. Hope you enjoy your time with other parts of the EZA community, though. It makes no sense to continue to post here if you think so little of us. L&R.

Your arguments just have been bad when people challenged you on your different view. Which is to say there were non just a whole bunch of ignoring of stuff at convenience.

DrMario said:

On this thread? Likely not. You guys have already made it clear that differing viewpoints aren't welcome here. Why continue to subject myself to that? Even your characterization that i came here intially to"antagonise" instead of just present a different side is basically all you need to know about this thread.

I interact with plenty of other (much more reasonable) EZA fans on other social platforms. So you guys can have this one. I'm just happy knowing Brandon didn't cave to the pressures of the extreme left of his fan base.


Dr. Mario out.

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"Extreme left." Oh fucking please. I'm centre left in my country and, if I were American, would've voted for Hillary in a heart beat (over both Bernie and obviously Trump). This has absolutely nothing to do with what side you're on or "political opinions." It's about basic human decency, or in other words, not being an asshole. You can be right wing and still have empathy for other people, just like you can be left wing and be an asshole.

flare said:

I'm taking more recently like sexual harassment scandals, Colin, and the like.

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Okay, okay. When was Colin involved in a sexual harrassment scandal? If you're talking about his tweet that sent him off of KF I know what you mean, but that's more hostility or asociality than it is "harrassment".

Asbsand said:

Okay, okay. When was Colin involved in a sexual harrassment scandal? If you're talking about his tweet that sent him off of KF I know what you mean, but that's more hostility or asociality than it is "harrassment".

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He's not talking about Colin being involved with sexual harassment. But rather those things as separate incidents. Sexual harassment being one, Colin being another.

Congrats on The Mole idea, Tregard, it was a pretty fun stream.

TheDarkKnight said:

In other news today. This might come as a shock but apparently discovering a leak in a house isn't fun!

I've been dealing with this all day. The leak is now fixed and now the water restoration people are here to start drying out the carpet/flooring.

It hasn't been cheap but so far the water damage hasn't been too bad. Not as bad as other cases.

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I had to make a two meters long hole in my concrete garage floor due to an old pipe breaking and leaking.

I feel for you.

"I'm not comfortable with the people I love associating with outspoken racists and I'm going to tell them that."

EXTREMISM.

I don't want Collin on EZA at all, as long as I don't see him on the podcast I am ok. Jones is free to go to where he wants. On a side note I can not comprehend why people attack Ian and Damiani as much as they do. They are both very talented and bring a lot of enjoyment to EZA. If anyone of you is reading this comments pls know for every mean comment there are lost of fans of your work, and will support you now and for as long as you wish to continue.

Very interesting that Brandon was saying that big changes are on the horizon, and that the things people have been responding to positively are "on the way up".
Hopefully if he's not doing reviews as much etc. he could be in a tabletop arc for real. TTE is awesome and I love the group, but I think they need some new blood and fresh faces. Ben and Brandon as players would be really really awesome I think.
Someone would have to DM, but maybe if they tried to do shorter arc's, like 15 to 20 episodes, they could rotate out the DM without that person then being stuck in that roll for a year or more. Might make it more palatable for other allies to be the guy behind the screen once in a while.

As for the other ongoing topic ...
Online communities are toxic, pretty much all of them. From youtube (the comments there are probably the worst) all the way to the small private forums of various groups (people in the official KindaFunny forums calling Brandon "even more spineless than I thought he was before", and the actual EZA forum/patreon page...), and everything in between (even this very thread), you just can't escape it.
The vitriol of anonymous internet denizens is not a surprise anymore.

That said, there are people who are trying to figure it out, talking about this stuff without throwing their toys, trying to be constructive in a positive way. Those are the people we should be engaging with.
I don't think shutting down this conversation is the answer, but yeah it's frustrating trying to sift through all the bullshit.

Sorry for the rant, slow day at work.

WiseSplinteR said:

Very interesting that Brandon was saying that big changes are on the horizon, and that the things people have been responding to positively are "on the way up".
Hopefully if he's not doing reviews as much etc. he could be in a tabletop arc for real. TTE is awesome and I love the group, but I think they need some new blood and fresh faces. Ben and Brandon as players would be really really awesome I think.
Someone would have to DM, but maybe if they tried to do shorter arc's, like 15 to 20 episodes, they could rotate out the DM without that person then being stuck in that roll for a year or more. Might make it more palatable for other allies to be the guy behind the screen once in a while.

As for the other ongoing topic ...
Online communities are toxic, pretty much all of them. From youtube (the comments there are probably the worst) all the way to the small private forums of various groups (people in the official KindaFunny forums calling Brandon "even more spineless than I thought he was before", and the actual EZA forum/patreon page...), and everything in between (even this very thread), you just can't escape it.
The vitriol of anonymous internet denizens is not a surprise anymore.

That said, there are people who are trying to figure it out, talking about this stuff without throwing their toys, trying to be constructive in a positive way. Those are the people we should be engaging with.
I don't think shutting down this conversation is the answer, but yeah it's frustrating trying to sift through all the bullshit.

Sorry for the rant, slow day at work.

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I'm a bit confused. What are we trying to figure out exactly?

Bloodworth said:

Yeah, I probably spend too much time going through the YouTube comments, even when Ian has specifically told me to just leave them alone. But YouTube's structure isn't always conducive to catching them all, and yeah there are times when I can't look them over until a day or two later. There is a filter now at least that catches some of the worst. I realize too that comment moderation is about judgment calls and there are things that I might leave alone that others would delete.

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I glossed over this post yesterday, but I just wanted to say I appreciate your efforts in trying to moderate the comments on various platforms. I don't envy you having to read some of those comments, especially on YouTube. I also wanted to thank you for frequently taking the time to read and respond to the posts in this thread, even though you aren't obligated to. L&R.

JayC3 said:

Absolutely pathetic, said without a hint of self-awareness as you post willingly on a message board that has, with the support of staff and the majority of the community, blanket-banned the guy that you're caping for.

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Oh, I'm perfectly aware of the "blanket ban" and how fringe /extreme this entire board is. It's a great place to get gaming news and have some good intelligent discussions with many good people. But yea, once things get political then the crazy starts to seep out of the cracks.

Murasaki said:

"I'm not comfortable with the people I love associating with outspoken racists and I'm going to tell them that."

EXTREMISM.

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The extremism is referring to colin as an "outspoken racist. " but it's 2017, so you can't try to make a nuanced point without someone —who hasn't watched the content—labeling you a racist.

Luckily for the rest of us, Brandon can sift through the nonsense, realize the accusations has silly, and agree to go on his show. When even the chill love and respect touting Brandon jones doesn't agree with you....you're probably doing it wrong.

Yo weren't you supposed to go away? Like you even said "Dr Mario out" so it'd be best for everyone, yourself included, if you just didn't bother coming to this thread.