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broncobuster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,139
Disney is fucking it with these spinoffs. Mandalorian I'll watch but my expectations and hype for it is so low.

Also I really enjoyed last jedi and to a lesser extent force awakens but there certainly is something missing from it that Lucas gave us, at least on a design aspect. Williams was sleeping when he composed TFA too but at least he came back strong for the sequel

Lucas tossing out ideas and having them filtered by the more talented filmmakers and storytellers would've been interesting. As I understand it, it's basically how Empire Strikes Back turned out so damn good. But like, most of his ideas would've and probably should've been swatted down if he suggested them.

Thought Solo was enjoyable for what it was and unfortunately seemed to put a damper on the spin-off ambitions. If they ever pick them back up, they gotta break away from reusing the OT era, ships, imagery, etc. Sounded like that's what Rian Johnson was gonna do with his trilogy, whenever that's happening. And TLJ had some really high highs that I'm excited to see what he can do without all the baggage.
 

element252

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
719
Nice try, Pigg.

The Sequels are better films than the Original Trilogy, which are better than the Prequel Trilogy (except that Revenge of the Sith is good, and Return of the Jedi is garbage).

The OT is overrated, and TFA/TLJ will be appreciated in a decade.



You cannot seriously feel that way. The new Sequels are better than the OT? You are definitely in the minority there.
 

okayfrog

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,968
https://www.cinemablend.com/new/Simon-Pegg-Blunt-Opinion-Star-Wars-Prequel-Fans-93467.html

"I don't really have any respect for anyone who thinks those films are good. They're not. (They're) a monumental misunderstanding of what the (original) three films are about. It's an exercise in utter infanticide ... (like) George Lucas killing his kid."
It's fantastic as I understand where he's coming from both here and in the OP. The prequels aren't good, but I'd take them and Lucas's touch any day over the sequels (or at least the sequels so far).
 

Scrooge McDuck

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,038
I don't agree that ridicule is warranted. But I do acknowledge that what I just described has encouraged an awful, long-standing feedback loop of reactionism, with much of this discussion being just one example of countless similar arguments over countless years.
Yar, "warranted" is not exactly the word I'm looking for. I just feel like what Pegg said in these articles are often more invitations to trash talk than discussions.

That's a very petty and simplistic view.
All I meant to say is he set the tone to the discussion. People often ask why somebody get poor reaction by merely stating an opinion while ignoring how one states an opinion also matters. When you can't speak your mind without being condescending to other people, I really don't think it's any wonder when people treat you in kind.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
8,055
Appalachia
Yar, "warranted" is not exactly the word I'm looking for. I just feel like what Pegg said in these articles are more invitations to trash talk than discussions.

All I meant to say is he set the tone to the discussion. People often ask why somebody get poor reaction by merely stating an opinion while ignoring how one states an opinion also matters. When you can't speak your mind without being condescending to other people, I really don't think it's any wonder when people treat you in kind.
Absolutely. Especially the bolded. But in response you'll get any number of bullet-point excuses as to why their vitriol is justified, or why the speaker isn't responsible for the way they choose to word themselves - the listener is responsible for how they interpret what was said. Of course in reality the best approach is not one or the other - it's a constant dynamic of give-and-take, learn and grow. But you can't have that when motherfuckers only care about themselves.
 
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SweetVermouth

Banned
Mar 5, 2018
4,272
Lucas tossing out ideas and having them filtered by the more talented filmmakers and storytellers would've been interesting. As I understand it, it's basically how Empire Strikes Back turned out so damn good. But like, most of his ideas would've and probably should've been swatted down if he suggested them.
Episode 4 and 5 are so damn good because nobody just let Lucas do his thing. They questioned his scripts, his dialogues not to piss him off but to get a better movie out. Lucas is an extremely creative person with lots of original ideas and you can see that even in the PT but by then he became a god and nobody ever questioned or challenged him and the PT ended up being a prime example of great ideas duct taped together.
 

Hero of Time

Member
Oct 25, 2017
446
At least the prequels gave us the Clone Wars.

And on the topic of the original trilogy's greatness being because George Lucas had a great team he collaborated with. I recommend anyone who hasn't seen it to watch this video.

 
Oct 26, 2017
8,055
Appalachia
I still want to see the original Lucas cut of A ANH. He had some interesting ideas from the clips I saw that I'd like to experience just to entertain my own curiosity (and eye for cinematography).
 

Deleted member 41271

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 21, 2018
2,258
"I don't really have any respect for anyone who thinks those films are good. They're not. (They're) a monumental misunderstanding of what the (original) three films are about. It's an exercise in utter infanticide ... (like) George Lucas killing his kid."

Lol #manthoughts. Almost as much of a disaster as whatever this thread title is supposed to be.

New movies are indeed not good though, they're great :) TLJ is better than 4 and 6, even, almost as good as empire strikes back.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
Lucas shat out 3 garbage prequels, thank god he's gone, the absolute fraud
His value to the franchise decreased the less he collaborated with other skilled creatives. Lucas is an idea guy, not a technician. He should supply the concepts and creative fuel, and contribute design suggestions, while the rest of the team builds the engine and translates his feedback into practical revisions that he himself wouldn't know how to implement.

When you look at the prequels, it is obvious that Lucas was a specialist in a Jack-of-all-trades role. The best things about it, like the art design, were the products of skilled artists. He is no James Cameron, and that's fine. There's no shame in heeding your limits for the good of your art. I wish he had been more self-aware when he was creating the prequels. He struck on a winning formula when he made the OT in deep collaboration with others, but something changed.

If Lucasfilm would be open to George Lucas returning in an advisory capacity for some new Star Wars movies, I think that would be great. Don't give him creative control, but let him go wild with his imagination.
 
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iswasdoes

Member
Nov 13, 2017
3,084
Londinium
I heartily recommend people listen to the Adam Buxton podcast where this comment was originally made. Because a) its a really great podcast for any fan of any of Peggs work and b) it puts the context of the comment really well, where he acknowledges the criticism he made of in the past and reflects on his experience now as part of the franchise of what lucas brought to it
 

Amspicora

Member
Oct 29, 2017
456
At least the prequels gave us the Clone Wars.

And on the topic of the original trilogy's greatness being because George Lucas had a great team he collaborated with. I recommend anyone who hasn't seen it to watch this video.



Damn, I wonder if people knows directors oversee the editing process and the rough cut it's ALWAYS terrible. Marcia Lucas did an incredible job with the editing, and she was awarded for it, but the idea that people think she saved the movie by herself really show how people doesn't know how this job is done.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
You cannot seriously feel that way. The new Sequels are better than the OT? You are definitely in the minority there.

Lots of people say that, though, especially here. I don't entirely get it myself but those are usually the same people who hate the prequels because they weren't what they expected but act like expectations are a dumb thing to have when The Last Jedi seems to have been written from the ground up to do the opposite of what you'd expect.

As for the idea that the franchise is missing a certain spark since Lucas left, I'd tend to agree. We've had four movies so far and they've all been derivative of something Lucas did before - whether it's exploring Solo's past and how the Rebellion got the Death Star plans or the sequel movies essentially being remakes of A New Hope and Empire. Nothing is new, y'know?

Yet if you watch the prequel trilogy or The Clone Wars cartoon that spawned from it, they're actually pretty unique. The aliens, the planets, the ships, the conflicts, the mythology. Lucas may not have been very good at telling stories but damn if he didn't have one heck of an imagination and no lack of confidence.

Honestly Lucas' own idea for a sequel trilogy was way more interesting than what we got and is probably the poster child for why you should never give up creative control of a franchise you started and was built on your own creative vision because nobody that takes over from you will have that same voice.

I wonder if he regrets selling Star Wars now. It was better off in his hands.
 

P-MAC

Member
Nov 15, 2017
4,455
He's entirely correct, apart from the George Lucas part. The new films are embarrassing but George likely couldn't have done better.
 

NekoNeko

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,447
if they reverse the thing about rey's parents not being special, i will get up and walk out of the theater on the spot.
 

Deleted member 17402

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,125
The newer movies, as much as I love 'em, do suffer in grandiose scale because they focus very narrowly on the First Order. On the other hand the prequels, as messy as they are, deliver on making Star Wars feel epic and vast with interlinking parts.
 

NekoNeko

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,447
I don't understand why people wanted her to be a Skywalker, we have had secret Skywalker reveals in Episode 5, 6 and 7. We didn't need another in Ep 8.
yeah but that's why i fear that JJ will just "correct" it. people expected it and they were letdown that the speculation for two years didn't amount to anything. it was brilliant but a lot of star wars fans didn't get it.
 

Karasseram

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,358
I'm not gonna lie if IX pisses of the obnoxious fans to a big degree I will be happy. "JJ subverted your expectations. What's wrong you love that right?".
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,312
A certain jay nay say quaw.


As someone who had to sit through the three prequels in a row, they are not good at all. Anybody who thinks so just like ps the memes. Even in RotS there's a fun scene then like 2 hours of nothing before everything starts happening. At least the new films are pretty tight experiences with gorgeous visuals and likeable characters. I mean does anyone like prequel Anakin over Rey. Hell no.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,597
Guys, he still hates the prequels. He basically says 'Despite me absolutely hating the prequels, they do have some of that George Lucas charm which is missing from these"

I actually kinda agree there. I think the prequels are absolutely terrible and the new ones are definitely better (though I strongly dislike Solo and The Force Awakens as well), but for instance Naboo, Kamino, Geonosis and Coruscant in concept are far more inventive and interesting than anything in the new movies setting-wise.
 

Voytek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,805
I think Lucas is a better idea man than a director or writer He can throw out some wonderful story ideas but you need someone else to take those ideas and shape them into something truly great. The prequels had good and interesting ideas they were just poorly executed and the dialog was terrible.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,597
They're not though... they're all standard space fantasy designs with next to none of the magic of the originals.
Well yeah but, they're still more interesting than anything in the new movies settingwise though. At least every single one of those planets were new-ish concepts in the Star Wars franchise that (personally) spoke to my imagination, meanwhile in the sequels you have Tatooine 2.0, some jungle with a bar in it, Hoth but also a giant spaceship, some random casino, Hoth but red and literally just a (beautiful) Irish island. All these places are just settings, there's no sense of these planet being places where people actually live, they're just empty settings.

The thing that makes Naboo, Kamino, Geonosis and Coruscant (in theory) work is that these are planets that play to the imagination, you wonder what else is there. For instance, I have always loved the concept of the Naboo and the fact that the Gungans are this huge civilization that no one knows of and lives just below the surface. Coruscant obviously is also very good on the imagination, even though it's obviously a pretty obvious rip from Trantor in the Foundation trilogy. The only planet in the sequel films so far that comes even close to being like that is Ahch-To, except they cut the one scene that actually delves into what the inhabitants of Ahch-To actually do beside taking care of some old ruins.

And sure, 'yada yada empty unneccesary worldbuilding', but to me none of the locations in the new mainline movies felt like actual locations rather than just setpieces. Is Maz Kanata's bar literally located on an empty planet with a bar in the middle of nowhere? The Force Awakens certainly makes it seem so. Surely there's more to Canto Bight than just a casino, a race track and empty grasslands? And I'm deliberately not counting Jakku, since while that has an actual semblance of culture, its culture is basically just 'Tatooine with a different name'.
 

Markitron

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,510
Ireland
I mean, they're still more interesting than anything in the new movies settingwise though. At least every single one of those planets were new-ish concepts in the Star Wars franchise that (personally) spoke to my imagination, meanwhile in the sequels you have Tatooine 2.0, some jungle with a bar in it, Hoth but also a giant spaceship, some random casino, Hoth but red and literally just a (beautiful) Irish island. All these places are just settings, there's no sense of these planet being places where people actually live, they're just empty settings.

The thing that makes Naboo, Kamino, Geonosis and Coruscant (in theory) work is that these are planets that play to the imagination, you wonder what else is there. For instance, I have always loved the concept of the Naboo and the fact that the Gungans are this huge civilization that no one knows of and lives just below the surface. Coruscant obviously is also very good on the imagination, even though it's obviously a pretty obvious rip from Trantor in the Foundation trilogy. The only planet in the sequel films so far that comes even close to being like that is Ahch-To, except they cut the one scene that actually delves into what the inhabitants of Ahch-To actually do beside taking care of some old ruins.

And sure, 'yada yada empty unneccesary worldbuilding', but to me none of the locations in the new mainline movies felt like actual locations rather than just setpieces. Is Maz Kanata's bar literally located on an empty planet with a bar in the middle of nowhere? The Force Awakens certainly makes it seem so. Surely there's more to Canto Bight than just a casino, a race track and empty grasslands? And I'm deliberately not counting Jakku, since while that has an actual semblance of culture, its culture is basically just 'Tatooine with a different name'.
IMO Crait and Ach-Too were great locations, the casino planet had potential but that was the worst part of the film and they squandered it. The rest of them were so so. I agree that the prequels are better in this regard, hopefully we get something good in Episode 9.