The imperfections of non digital painted frames also contributed to the charm.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Why does modern Dragon Ball Super look so much worse then 1990s DBZ? Also comparison video.
- Thread starter MasterVampire
- Start date
And some great storyboarding too.
So fking good. But apparently its all just "rose tinted nostalgia goggles". I wish super was like this.
To be fair, the manga was the storyboard. Super didn't have that luxuryAnd some great storyboarding too.
Definitely. Likewise, it seems easier to forgive mistakes or quirks in hand drawn animation, while CG is so sterile and high res that every mistake looks a million times worse.
The first time I saw Super was just a few months ago on tv with my nephew. I was shocked by how cheap it looked.
The Goku flips are the best.
Lol I like how Piccolo looks to counter and gets kicked in the face... it's like he's thinking "dafuq, physics don't work that way"
This is peak db.These rose tinted nostalgia goggles fit nicely man I'm telling ya.
It still looks amazing
I don't believe you can find me a pre-digital TV anime production even touching the animation quality standard of Mob Psycho 100, Dennou Coil or any other Sakuga-heavy digital era show.
Even stuff like with evident Sakuga moments like Bebop doesn't really match it on average.
Fuck, the animation quality in recent Pokemon series fucking destroys all old anime seasons put together.
I'd say the higher cost-effeciency of digital has allowed anime studio to achieve a higher concentration of Sakuga on TV budgets.
Last edited:
Yup. Definitely a huge point a lot of people forget as well. But towards the end, Super's key animators like Takahashi, Manabe and Karasawa put in the work.
Last edited:
They're still hand drawn today except they use graphic tablets instead of paper and animation cells.
Yea, the very clean look bothers the shit out of me honestly
Edit: i do Like how the movie looks for the most part tho
Edit: i do Like how the movie looks for the most part tho
We have these threads every few months, but I always find it amusing that people are quick to defend DBS and doing the usual cherry picking for the worst scenes in DBZ to justify their opinions.
I mean, yeah, DBZ sometimes looks bad but this is the case with every on-going anime. The thing is, when DBZ is good - it's really good. Not just in the animation department, but generally the art, story board, fight choreography and overall direction is leagues ahead of DBS which feels a bit amateurish at times without much thought put into producing the episodes.
They definitely stepped their game for ToP, and the last episode was beautiful but I can't help but wish they treated more episodes with such respect and budget, especially for fucking Dragon Ball which is the #1 anime ever.
I re-watched DBZ (Kai, but still) this year and the Buu saga is just untouchable. Has the best art by far. Even if the animation isn't always top notch and smooth, they managed to make scenes look excellent by using smart story boarding and direction which is something I can't say about DBS.
I mean, yeah, DBZ sometimes looks bad but this is the case with every on-going anime. The thing is, when DBZ is good - it's really good. Not just in the animation department, but generally the art, story board, fight choreography and overall direction is leagues ahead of DBS which feels a bit amateurish at times without much thought put into producing the episodes.
They definitely stepped their game for ToP, and the last episode was beautiful but I can't help but wish they treated more episodes with such respect and budget, especially for fucking Dragon Ball which is the #1 anime ever.
I re-watched DBZ (Kai, but still) this year and the Buu saga is just untouchable. Has the best art by far. Even if the animation isn't always top notch and smooth, they managed to make scenes look excellent by using smart story boarding and direction which is something I can't say about DBS.
Super picked up in the last arc and had some nice fights.
And if we're posting gif from DB, I always loved this bit from early on in Z.
And if we're posting gif from DB, I always loved this bit from early on in Z.
Holy shit. I thought I was the only one who liked that stuff.
*high five*
And some great storyboarding too.
My man.
The SSJ Goku vs. Freezer fight is probably my favorite fight in the series. Especially love the scenes in these gifs.
Btw, on the subject of animation, I was watching some older anime a little while back which included Lupin III, Knights of the Zodiac/Saint Seiya, Ranma 1/2 and some random episodes of early DBZ, and holy shit, there was a LOT of animation overlap between series and studios back then. I mean, don't get me wrong, I knew many anime were worked on by multiple studios, but I didn't realize it was that widespread back then. Now? Sure. Nearly every goddamned anime in existence looks like Bleach. But I used to think in the old days, studios' animation styles were more distinct and unique.
Just thought that was interesting.
Just thought that was interesting.
I mean, you guys are cherrypicking the best bits of DBZ too, as well as ignoring the different realities of production in post 2010 animation in Japan, which demands longer hours and under worse conditions than ever. That might be something to keep in mind.
Because it is less "rough".
Modern technology allows them to draw thing much easily and "nicer". The imperfections were the reason the picture looked very raw and intense.
Modern technology allows them to draw thing much easily and "nicer". The imperfections were the reason the picture looked very raw and intense.
I always loved this shot
You really feet the hits in Z sometimes less is more.
This is one of those gifs where you can hear a sound even though there isn't any. DB + early DBZ + Buu DBZ looks the best imo.I always loved this shot
The shading and details are well done, but it has more shaky cam than a Blair Witch fan film. Sure DBZ used it at times too, but the way super does it the exact same way most of the time detracts a lot from the actual art because their execution of it feels like a cheap effect imo. The Vegeta punching Jeice gif and the Goku hitting Frieza one I posted both use it, but it's used differently both times and doesn't have a bad found footage effect.Yup. Definitely a huge point a lot of people forget as well. But towards the end, Super's key animators like Takahashi, Manabe and Karasawa put in the work.
Now I feel like rewatching DBZ. Would y'all recommend this blu-ray collection from Amazon? https://www.amazon.com/Dragon-Ball-...&refinements=p_n_format_browse-bin:2650305011
No. It's cropped in 16:9 widescreen and the image is oversatureded to the point of eyebleed. The grain was removed and it's just a mess. Whatever you do don't buy them. Don't let the fact that it's on Blu Ray fool you. It's a horrendous releasse.
There are so many releases of Dragon Ball Z and all of them are shit...
Is it too much to ask for an HD transfer in the original aspect ratio to be put out on blu-ray?
And the best bits of Super aren't being cherry picked as well?
Last edited:
Agreed. The Dragon Boxes were the only competent releasse but it's out of print and now there is not much point in getting it since it's not HD. Luckilly there has been some speculation that Toie is planning to remaster DB and DBZ properly in HD. Since they did so for the movies and they look increadible. So here's hopping.
There's some nice drawings in this but what bothers me, and this is true of lots of modern anime, is the shadows in this scene are static. She has all this energy around her yet none of the shadows flicker or move or are highlighted much save for her hair.The first two arcs in Super were painful to watch. Since they were just shitty versions of the first two movies. After that I enjoyed it more, despite a lot of crappy animation. But when it was good, it was good.
Oh yeah I have seen 2 of the DBZ movies in HD (Dead Zone and World's Strongest) and they look glorious.
Yup. Definitely a huge point a lot of people forget as well. But towards the end, Super's key animators like Takahashi, Manabe and Karasawa put in the work.
This would look much better if the coloring in modern DB wasn't such an overblown RGB lightshow though. The coloring is one of Super's biggest issues in my view
:( I just want a proper blu-ray release with Falconer music :(
This, plus the movie has amazing art and I think I read somewhere they will be using that for the next arc.
Yeah, but there's also more emphasis on its negative qualities while stating that the negative qualities of Z were both less severe and less numerous, which is rather dishonest.
Look at the second Cooler movie. The entire thing is a visual disaster. A large scale Dragon Ball production that's the visual equivalent of diarrhea, so bad it made KaiserNeko nearly go mad while editing it.
I watched 120 episodes of Kai (listening to the GOAT giantbomb podcast), and had no issue with the animation except few obvious redraws early on.
I also watched some episodes of Super's ToP arc, and wow cheap animations and lazy fights galore. Crazy to think how the animation quality fell off.
I also watched some episodes of Super's ToP arc, and wow cheap animations and lazy fights galore. Crazy to think how the animation quality fell off.
That final fight was freakin' awesome! Some of Dragon Ball's best animation was in that final battle. Episode 130 is also a highlight of great animation. They went all out with the final two episodes.
To be fair, DBZ also had lot's of awful looking and animated episodes, mostly from the Cell arc. Dragon Ball has always been a very inconsistent anime in terms of animation/art quality. But if I have to choose an actual art style overall, I will choose DBZ for sure simply because all the characters in Super look very skinny and have that kinda oily/saturated feel. Trunks being the most affected by this. He looked absolute badass in DBZ with huge muscles and radiant pink/purplish long hair, while in Super, he looks skinny and has damn blue hair, also he looks kinda childish at times? Like if he was preteen rather than a full teenager. I love both DBZ and DBS anyways. DB is my absolute favorite look tho. I love the overall cartoony round look of it the most.
Dragon Ball Super was rushed to TV by the production committee because they were surprised at how well merch and presale tickets for Resurrection F were doing and it didn't have proper pre-production because of this, which is something it had to fight against all the way to the end.
Episodes had to be made in a fraction of the time they should have been, but Toei did everything they could to improve the production as the show went on, which is why the further you get in the show the better it looks.
There are also other issues, Yamamuro's modern character designs aren't very good, especially compared to the Maeda and Nakatsuru eras, the color design was poor and the post time would get a little overzealous with CG auras.
Luckily All this is changing, the movie Dragon Ball Super Broly has a ridiculously good production, a new character designer whose designs have been highly praised by the industry, new color design based off of the Full Colo Manga and more subtle auras. So far impressions from the Japanese premier have been super positive on the visuals.
As they have made a big deal about the new direction and the new character designer was hand picked by Toriyama the show will likely continue the direction of the movie, and the production will likely also be great because not only is it not a surprise this time how popular Dragon Ball is, but Toei has set up an entire division dedicated to Dragon Ball, something they haven't done with any other IP. For reference Toei's 3 divisions are for hand drawn anime, CG anime and Dragon Ball.
Episodes had to be made in a fraction of the time they should have been, but Toei did everything they could to improve the production as the show went on, which is why the further you get in the show the better it looks.
There are also other issues, Yamamuro's modern character designs aren't very good, especially compared to the Maeda and Nakatsuru eras, the color design was poor and the post time would get a little overzealous with CG auras.
Luckily All this is changing, the movie Dragon Ball Super Broly has a ridiculously good production, a new character designer whose designs have been highly praised by the industry, new color design based off of the Full Colo Manga and more subtle auras. So far impressions from the Japanese premier have been super positive on the visuals.
As they have made a big deal about the new direction and the new character designer was hand picked by Toriyama the show will likely continue the direction of the movie, and the production will likely also be great because not only is it not a surprise this time how popular Dragon Ball is, but Toei has set up an entire division dedicated to Dragon Ball, something they haven't done with any other IP. For reference Toei's 3 divisions are for hand drawn anime, CG anime and Dragon Ball.
Actually it's still drawn on paper, they just scan the drawings and color them digitally.
False, the majority of Super was animated in Japan and Toei put a lot of money into it to keep it from totally collapsing. Toei Phils primarily just supported the show with their staff.
Also false and very uninformed.
Last edited:
I don't think that this is true.
There's no shortage of cel-based anime with shoddy artwork and/or animation (e.g. Trigun, Weiss Kreuz, Tekkaman Blade, Chargeman Ken, Dark Cat, Hell Target, Roots Search, Nora, Vampire Wars, Psychic Wars, Twinklr Nora Rock Me, Garzey's Wing). Watch any long-form shounen anime from the 80s or 90s—Hokuto no Ken, Saint Seiya, Dragon Ball, Hell Teacher Nube, Yu Yu Hakusho, or Rurouni Kenshin, to name a few—and you'll notice that the quality of the storyboarding, artwork, and animation often fluctuates on a per-episode basis (depending on the studios and/or talents involved). This phenomenon doesn't just apply to shounen adaptations, either; it applies to a great deal of TV anime and some OVAs. Older anime were just as liable to errors as modern anime are.
Now, I have no idea how you can say that "all modern anime" are inferior to "pre-digital animation" when the last few years have given us productions like Kekkai Sensen, Devilman Crybaby, Mob Psycho 100, One Punch Man, Garo: Honoo no Kokuin, Shingeki no Bahamut: Genesis, Gundam Thunderbolt, Gundam: The Origin, The Eccentric Family, Haikyuu, Ping Pong, Megalo Box, Kyousogiga, Yozakura Quartet: Hoshi no Umi, and Kujira no Kora wa Sajou ni Utau. Say what you will about their writing, but I don't think that the quality of their artwork and animation can be called "bad". Not for everyone, maybe, but not bad.
In actuality, the vast majority of TV anime (and OVAs, for that matter) are pretty unremarkable in terms of artwork and animation. There are standout episodes here and there, but the nature of the anime production complex precludes every episode from being perfect in all aspects. TV anime like Cowboy Bebop are anomalies; productions with their level of consistency are rare. OVAs like Bubblegum Crisis and Gunbuster were mired in a sea of mediocre OVAs produced with the bare minimum of quality. The medium has always been inconsistent in terms of quality; you can't just boil things down to "modern anime is inferior to old anime". Statements like this not only lack nuance, but are purely subjective.
Sometimes I wonder if the "older anime are better" crowd's sample size only consists of popular/critically-acclaimed works and absolutely nothing else (it feels that way, considering that most "old anime are better" discussions end up with people posting the same predictable examples ad nauseam). It's easy to believe that older anime are flawless when you've only seen the best examples, and it's easy to believe that modern anime is trash when you've convinced yourself that the industry died at the turn of the millennium.
Last edited:
This is exactly what it is. Bringing anime to North America was a risky business in the '90s, so only the cream of the crop or best known were licenced. It's also the same nonsense as "Music was the best in the 'X0s" threads, since the bad stuff has been forgotten over time.