Shows that slowly reach a critical point where the setting/premise is significantly recontexualized

brainchild · Nov 14, 2018

After visiting the LTTP Fringe thread, I realized that these kinds of shows are my favorite kind of shows; the ones where you go into it assuming a certain genre and come away in disbelief at what it has morphed into. The world isn't what you thought that it was, and the assumptions you made about what was possible in such a world are no longer valid; it's all a bit of a mindfuck!

I haven't seen many live action shows do this, but it seems to be more common in anime. My favorite examples would have to be from the following shows:

Hunter x Hunter (2011)

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This show had a fairly slow start, but by the time you get to learning about Nen, you're wondering where in the hell all of this is coming from! After this revelation, things really start to pick up and your mind can't help but to wonder about what else is possible in a world full of Nen users! Thankfully, the arcs just keep getting more and more inventive to the point where it was simply impossible to guess what direction this show was going in! Probably my all time favorite show, period.

Fringe

This show really blew me away with it's surprise twist of a setting/premise. I went in completely blind, knowing nothing about the show. There were little mysteries being hinted at, but my mind could not comprehend the direction the show was preparing to go in by the end of season 1. It was a complete subversion of expectations, and now I wish more shows would do this!

Wayward Pines

The king of twists creates a twist of a premise to trump them all! No seriously, though the plot turns out to be a bit of a mess, no one will ever say that they saw the recontexualization of the premise/setting coming even moments before it was revealed. This is another show where I went in blind, and suffice to say that there hasn't been a single other show to blow my mind the way this show has.

So yeah, those are some of my favorite examples, but I'd love to see more examples from Era as I'm really looking for another show that will give me a similar experience to the shows I mentioned.

Deleted member 8561 · Nov 14, 2018

Mr. Robot after 5/9

5taquitos · Nov 14, 2018

The Good Place is the only one coming to mind at the moment.

And sorry for anyone reading this that hasn't watched it, there's really no way to bring it up without spoiling it.

sphagnum · Nov 14, 2018

Twin Peaks.

Vincent Alexander · Nov 14, 2018

Maybe someday I'll try to get past season 1 of Fringe. The father was annoying. "Oooh. He's goofy and eccentric." I got it. Dial it back.

StopMakingSense · Nov 14, 2018

5taquitos said:
The Good Place is the only one coming to mind at the moment.

And sorry for anyone reading this that hasn't watched it, there's really no way to bring it up without spoiling it.

And it does it several times over, too.

Deleted member 31817 · Nov 14, 2018

StopMakingSense said:
And it does it several times over, too.

Yep

Season 2 is genius

brainchild · Nov 14, 2018

TheLostBigBoss said:
Mr. Robot after 5/9

That reminds me that I need to finish this show!

IDreamOfHime · Nov 14, 2018

Surely St Elsewhere is the king of this. Especially if you dive down the rabbit hole of the "tommy westphall universe".

5taquitos · Nov 14, 2018

Psychoward said:
Yep

Season 2 is genius

Season 3 has been much less so, at least so far. Hopefully that changes soon.

Xiaomi · Nov 14, 2018

sphagnum said:
Twin Peaks.

Yep. You have no idea what this show is going to become in the first few episodes.

Other mystery shows like Lost come to mind as well, but I don't think they really recontextualized their world so much as tore it down and sent it into chaos.

Attack on Titan has several moments that recontextualize the world. The first time they leave the city, the introduction of other towns, stuff like that.

brainchild · Nov 14, 2018

5taquitos said:
The Good Place is the only one coming to mind at the moment.

And sorry for anyone reading this that hasn't watched it, there's really no way to bring it up without spoiling it.

StopMakingSense said:
And it does it several times over, too.

Well I know what I'm about to watch! Thanks!

sphagnum said:
Twin Peaks.

Good example!

IDreamOfHime said:
Surely St Elsewhere is the king of this. Especially if you dive down the rabbit hole of the "tommy westphall universe".

This show is ooooold. Is it still worth watching?

Alimnassor · Nov 14, 2018

Attack on Titan. You go in expecting a zombie horror story but, by the mid way point the story takes a dramatic turn as the plot and genre radically change.

Avitus · Nov 14, 2018

Mr Robot builds up to an event that seems like it's 'cool' with the show's premise and the initial portrayal of characters. Everything is going according to plan. It then spends the next two seasons going over how it actually wasn't cool, fucked up the world, and how some of the characters are terrible people.

brainchild · Nov 14, 2018

Xiaomi said:
Attack on Titan has several moments that recontextualize the world. The first time they leave the city, the introduction of other towns, stuff like that.

Alimnassor said:
Attack on Titan. You go in expecting a zombie horror story but, by the mid way point the story takes a dramatic turn as the plot and genre radically change.

I only watched season 1 (which was incredible), but it sounds like I need to watch the other seasons as well.

Fiction · Nov 14, 2018

Supernatural maybe? Starts as a monster of the week xfiles/buffy show (even some of the same writers) and then suddenly it's amazing biblical fanfic with a side of monster of the week.

theotherMittens · Nov 14, 2018

As mentioned above, The Good Place.

It seems to be the direction Dark is going in, with the way the first season ended.

Steven Universe significantly expands in scope as the series goes on. You have no idea what you're in for during the early episodes.

ibyea · Nov 14, 2018

Person of Interest
Starts out as your average CBS procedural crime drama using post 9/11 fear as a backdrop. Slowly it gets recontextualized into a cyberpunk story, and the plot device gimmick for the show becomes a character in itself.

brainchild · Nov 14, 2018

Fiction said:
Supernatural maybe? Starts as a monster of the week xfiles/buffy show (even some of the same writers) and then suddenly it's amazing biblical fanfic with a side of monster of the week.

Hmmm...

I might have to start watching it again.

Also, your avatar just reminded me that Sherlock had moments that always fucked with my expectations due to how the show was directed. It always felt like it was on the cusp of some Earth-shattering reveal. Loved that show.

Mary Celeste · Nov 14, 2018

The Venture Bros is my favorite example of this

Deleted member 31817 · Nov 14, 2018

5taquitos said:
Season 3 has been much less so, at least so far. Hopefully that changes soon.

haven't kept up because I just watch it on Netflix, that's disappointing

ibyea · Nov 14, 2018

There is a visual novel called House in Fata Morgana, and it basically happens all the time, it's pretty impressive actually.

sabrina · Nov 14, 2018

Glee. At the start it's about a bunch of young people who just need something fun to do. By the end, it's about a bunch of sad sacks who can't move on in their life and are stuck in metaphorical hell.

Smallville. Nobody even spends any time in the titular city for the last couple seasons.

Arrow. One man's quest for revenge turns thirteen people into superheros.

Teriyaki Blues · Nov 14, 2018

Dollhouse. I still haven't finished it because I didn't like the twist.

TheOMan · Nov 14, 2018

Vincent Alexander said:
Maybe someday I'll try to get past season 1 of Fringe. The father was annoying. "Oooh. He's goofy and eccentric." I got it. Dial it back.

Guy from red universe detected.

Bradford · Nov 14, 2018

There's the bog standard examples like Madoka Magica, Evangelion, and most other grimdark twist anime.

But for live action the best ones I can think of are:

Halt and Catch Fire: Starts off as a show about the business and minds behind the PC revolution. Ends as a show about interpersonal relationships and how important it is to have people who support you. The tech is certainly important, but it shifts SO hard from being a show about computers to a show about people that you could toss out the computers for literally any other flavortext and it could be adapted. They basically only exist as a playground to exemplify just how addictive, toxic, and mind blowingly interesting Capitalism was during the time period the show depicts.

Twin Peaks. People have already posted it, but it cannot be stressed enough. No one knew at the time how this one would end up. It's a bit like Bloodborne. Once you gain the insight into what is really going on, you can't go back to naivety.

Mr. Robot for sure, for aforementioned reasons. It's worth noting that people still aren't completely sure about what this final season may end up being.

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend is my last pick. You'd think with a title like that, and the show being about a 'crazy ex' that it would cash in on cheap stalker humor and poor representations of mental health. Instead it is a raw, honest, brutally relatable look at sickness and how to try and live with it. Amazingly well done.

With regards to Wayward Pines, it is based on a book series, so Shyamalan doesn't really deserve the credit for that one.

Deleted member 11046 · Nov 14, 2018

The very title of the series no longer has much relevance any more given where the last season has left off. The premise of the show is utterly divorced from where the story is now, in a good way.

KarmaCow · Nov 14, 2018

Teriyaki Blues said:
Dollhouse. I still haven't finished it because I didn't like the twist.

Just to double check, isn't it

That the dolls are basically guinea pigs for a program where they can wipe and control the entire human race.

Doesn't that twist come really late in the show, as in after they were cancelled and on the dvd ?

the_wart · Nov 14, 2018

Not a show, but the anime movie "Your Name" comes to mind. Around the middle I realized I had no idea what kind of movie it actually was and it was thrilling.

The only videogame I can think of that had a similar effect on me was Gone Home, because going in mostly blind I genuinely

didn't know if it was a horror game until I was at least 2/3 through

.

Teriyaki Blues · Nov 15, 2018

KarmaCow said:
Just to double check, isn't it

That the dolls are basically guinea pigs for a program where they can wipe and control the entire human race.

Doesn't that twist come really late in the show, as in after they were cancelled and on the dvd ?

Nah, the ending of season 1 twist where the show went from:

Downloading a new personality every week and clearing a cool mission, which allowed the show to be several genres at once. To: Season 1 Finale happens and everyone is permanently occupied by rich people who want cooler bodies/immortality and the world is a dystopia.

Of course my recollection could be a little off, but that's what my impression was at that time.

Edited to add: I watched Dollhouse on Netflix and it is entirely possible that they changed the viewing order of episodes and/or included previously unreleased content in the lineup.

brainchild · Nov 15, 2018

ibyea said:
There is a visual novel called House in Fata Morgana, and it basically happens all the time, it's pretty impressive actually.

Interesting...

sabrina said:
Arrow. One man's quest for revenge turns thirteen people into superheros.

I really need to get caught up on this show!

Teriyaki Blues said:
Dollhouse. I still haven't finished it because I didn't like the twist.

Hmmm

Griff said:
With regards to Wayward Pines, it is based on a book series, so Shyamalan doesn't really deserve the credit for that one.

Good point. Well at any rate, I sure appreciate the adaptation!

Aaronology said:
The very title of the series no longer has much relevance any more given where the last season has left off. The premise of the show is utterly divorced from where the story is now, in a good way.

This is true, but I'm not sure if it turned out as a good thing for me. It literally feels like a completely different show. But I can certainly see why people like it.

Gio · Nov 15, 2018

Some folks might say Lost but in my opinion that show was always gonna escalate into some sort of grand allegory about destiny and free will. There's a huge tonal shift between Season 4 and 5 from grounded sci-fi to pulpy fantasy that I have mixed feelings on but I do think they could have made the transition more gracefully.

BDS · Nov 15, 2018

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (procedural monster-of-the-week show during the first half of season 1 turned heavily serialized show with a radically shifting premise and main storyline every 12-15 episodes)
The 100 (generic post-apocalyptic YA adaptation turned quasi-Game of Thrones gritty drama with large amounts of violence, complex characters, major twists, and giant shakeups to the setting and premise each season)
Person of Interest (procedural crime-of-the-week show during the first few seasons turned more serialized AI mythology drama)
Star Wars: The Clone Wars (generic children's animated "lesson of the week" TV series turned dark, violent, and closely linked to major Star Wars mythology)
Star Wars Rebels (see above)
Legends of Tomorrow (serious time travel drama during season 1 turned wacky comic book meta-humor time travel dramedy)
The Good Place (major changes to premise each season)

Lord Fagan · Nov 15, 2018

While it always required a tremendous amount of leeway up front, there was a specific moment where Dexter truly came off the rails for me...

Killing James Doakes completely undermined whatever loose integrity the show could have possibly maintained.

He was the dude who was kind of that stand in for the portion of the audience that could barely comprehend the notion of a police station unknowingly working as closely with a serial killer as they all were. He NEVER trusted Dexter, and that hunch made him the single best gut detective in the entire building. Once he died, not only did legitimate tension go out the window, but the entire precinct instantly became a joke, perhaps the worst example of a police force in the entire goddamn history of law enforcement.

He was just a step or two outside of unhinged, sure, but the rest of the core characters made him look like Joe Friday. In the wake of killing him off, the show got ever more absurd. Joey Quinn came into the picture, innocuously at first, but holy shit did he get weirder the more fucked up his hair got. The assistant DA became a wannabe vigilante killer until that ended about as logically as one would assume. Dexter starts a fucking family with the scattered pieces of a home almost irreparably broken by a heroin addict father that Dexter wrongfully set up to return to prison and eventually die in a fight, a series of events which nosedive into him becoming a widowed single father before his son's first birthday because ANOTHER incognito family man serial killer murders his wife as a season finale cliffhanger. Then we spend a season of Internal Affairs investigating nearly everything except the goddamn serial killer who's been working with the police for years. Dexter's sister Debra starts realizing that she wants to have sex with her brother while in therapy, then he starts having sex with the hot Cerberus chick from Mass Effect 2, who eventually ends up taking Dexter's son to raise as her own after Dexter cuts a braindead Deb off life support and fakes his own death to live out his days as a lumberjack, because why the fuck not?

Seriously, before Doakes dies, it's all somewhat plausible as a show. I have no earthly idea how the hell it went on for 8 seasons. The idea of a "dark passenger" is admittedly awesome and I love when I see shit like that appear in other shows, but the rest of the enterprise after season 2 is total garbage. It's the show that taught me how to know when to just cut shit off when it gets too bananaballs and find something else to watch.

gforguava · Nov 15, 2018

ibyea said:
Person of Interest
Starts out as your average CBS procedural crime drama using post 9/11 fear as a backdrop. Slowly it gets recontextualized into a cyberpunk story, and the plot device gimmick for the show becomes a character in itself.

Definitely this.

The distance between what the show was at the beginning and what it becomes over time is truly something to behold. I mean I watched the first few episodes and quit tuning in because of how bland I thought the whole thing was but it really just builds and builds and suddenly you are at the end of season 2 and it's like "This is amazing."

This happening is still one of my favorite moments in TV.

What started out feeling like a very straightforward procedural(though one with a bit more thematic weight) ends up as a masterful mix of cyberpunk, spy-fi, and superheroes, all melding beautifully into a truly stellar piece of television.

Officer Big Mac · Nov 15, 2018

Fringe didn't change genres but it did pivot its premise.

Angel and Buffy did this almost every season. The characters were never in the same place year to year.

Deleted member 39479 · Nov 15, 2018

ibyea said:
Person of Interest
Starts out as your average CBS procedural crime drama using post 9/11 fear as a backdrop. Slowly it gets recontextualized into a cyberpunk story, and the plot device gimmick for the show becomes a character in itself.

Yes, this is mine too!! Season 2 finale onwards was absolutely bonkers.

BDS · Nov 15, 2018

gforguava said:
Definitely this.

The distance between what the show was at the beginning and what it becomes over time is truly something to behold. I mean I watched the first few episodes and quit tuning in because of how bland I thought the whole thing was but it really just builds and builds and suddenly you are at the end of season 2 and it's like "This is amazing."

This happening is still one of my favorite moments in TV.

What started out feeling like a very straightforward procedural(though one with a bit more thematic weight) ends up as a masterful mix of cyberpunk, spy-fi, and superheroes, all melding beautifully into a truly stellar piece of television.

"If-Then-Else" from season 4 is one of the most creative TV episodes. I love the constant iterations and especially the version where the Machine cuts down on processing so everyone speaks in generic phrases instead. I love it.

halcyjon · Nov 15, 2018

I'm reading the manga of Hunter x Hunter and the latest arc is absolute insanity compared to the beginning of the story. It's easily the most intricate shonen story I've ever come across. The amount of characters, motivations and powers to keep track of is something else.

nanhacott · Nov 15, 2018

pseudotsuga said:
Yes, this is mine too!! Season 2 finale onwards was absolutely bonkers.

As someone who has tried and failed to get into Person of Interest because of the bland beginning (I've given up on the first season twice), is there a point where I can safely jump in, or should I just force myself to power through the first two seasons?

BDS · Nov 15, 2018

aasoncott said:
As someone who has tried and failed to get into Person of Interest because of the bland beginning (I've given up on the first season twice), is there a point where I can safely jump in, or should I just force myself to power through the first two seasons?

There exist recommended viewing guides for the first couple seasons where nearly every episode can be skipped. I believe the PoI subreddit has one on their sidebar.

Deleted member 46641 · Nov 15, 2018

Steven universe does this constantly

brainchild · Nov 15, 2018

ibyea said:
Person of Interest
Starts out as your average CBS procedural crime drama using post 9/11 fear as a backdrop. Slowly it gets recontextualized into a cyberpunk story, and the plot device gimmick for the show becomes a character in itself.

pseudotsuga said:
Yes, this is mine too!! Season 2 finale onwards was absolutely bonkers.

Forgot about this but it absolutely counts! What an incredible ride that was!

BDS said:
"If-Then-Else" from season 4 is one of the most creative TV episodes. I love the constant iterations and especially the version where the Machine cuts down on processing so everyone speaks in generic phrases instead. I love it.

Still one of my favorite episodes ever.

gforguava said:
This happening is still one of my favorite moments in TV.

Mine too

Teh Hamburglar said:
Fringe didn't change genres but it did pivot its premise.

From my perspective, I went from watching a procedural drama mystery show to watching a fantasy sci-fi mystery show. Seemed like a pretty big leap to me.

halcyjon said:
I'm reading the manga of Hunter x Hunter and the latest arc is absolute insanity compared to the beginning of the story. It's easily the most intricate shonen story I've ever come across. The amount of characters, motivations and powers to keep track of is something else.

Completely agree. Too bad the anime was cancelled :(

ibyea · Nov 15, 2018

aasoncott said:
As someone who has tried and failed to get into Person of Interest because of the bland beginning (I've given up on the first season twice), is there a point where I can safely jump in, or should I just force myself to power through the first two seasons?

Part of the problem is that nearly every episode contains nuggets of lore or characterization that the show will most likely draw back on in later episodes. All these small developments build up, and then before you know it, the show makes them important.

gforguava · Nov 15, 2018

aasoncott said:
As someone who has tried and failed to get into Person of Interest because of the bland beginning (I've given up on the first season twice), is there a point where I can safely jump in, or should I just force myself to power through the first two seasons?

One problem with this is the way POI seeds things, while there are episodes that are pretty 'standalone' they can have little bits of character or plot relevance that might be crucial to the viewing experience. For instance s01e02 seems fairly skippable but it has flashbacks to Finch that are pretty relevant. Same with s01e03, which is the first mention of Elias. You also have Fusco's character growth and everything going on with Carter, both of which slowly move forward as the episodes go by.

Elias, as an example, is a character that is spread fairly liberally about the first season. If you were to skip some of these would the character still be as cool as I see him(having seen every episode)? Is him getting mentioned in s01e03 vital? It is hard to say.

Part of the amazing thing POI does is that when you get to the back end of Season 2(when the show takes its giant step forward into greatness) it feels like the show is expanding, you can feel it becoming this new and amazing thing but it also doesn't feel like a course-correction or change in plan, but rather a natural evolution of what it was before. There is this constant sense that the show is building on itself, gaining speed and focus so that when it hits that greatness it is on the back of a well-oiled machine.

NineConsonants · Nov 15, 2018

From Dusk til Dawn

Tace · Nov 15, 2018

Buffy and Angel did this pretty well.

Buffy leaves high school after season 3 and each season gets progressively more adult as the scoobies go to college and beyond.

Angel started off as a detective noir in season 1 and by season 5 I don't know how else to describe it other than beautiful,heartbreaking, poetry.

BDS · Nov 15, 2018

gforguava said:
Part of the amazing thing POI does is that when you get to the back end of Season 2(when the show takes its giant step forward into greatness) it feels like the show is expanding, you can feel it becoming this new and amazing thing but it also doesn't feel like a course-correction or change in plan, but rather a natural evolution of what it was before. There is this constant sense that the show is building on itself, gaining speed and focus so that when it hits that greatness it is on the back of a well-oiled machine.

This is the reason I generally avoid recommending that people skip episodes, even of shows like PoI or Clone Wars. It's important to feel that buildup, in my opinion, so the payoff feels earned.

gforguava · Nov 15, 2018

BDS said:
This is the reason I generally avoid recommending that people skip episodes, even of shows like PoI or Clone Wars. It's important to feel that buildup, in my opinion, so the payoff feels earned.

Exactly.

"Payoff" is definitely the watchword, you have to experience the buildup for it to work. That gif/moment I posted earlier certainly wouldn't be one of my favorite moments if I had just started there.

Zero-ELEC · Nov 15, 2018

Agents of SHIELD, maybe? Starts off as a procedural dealing with super hero fallout and then the premise varies wildly every third of a season dealing with sci-fi and magic, varying from space opera, spy-vs-spy, and some crazy what if scenarios.

Shows that slowly reach a critical point where the setting/premise is significantly recontexualized

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