Geoff, we need to have a serious talk about the "Content Creator" award.

Aztechnology said:

I guess my question is, why are you acting like Ninja is an institution and not a single person. He's a product, himself. He sells himself so to speak, and all decisions that entails. I don't support him, you probably don't support him with your viewership/money/support either. Because of his decisions. He gets to make these decisions, I understand your abstraction. But are we going to place rules on peoples decisions as individuals here as well? Ninja is not Twitch, they can act to say "hey Ninja, this is not acceptable in our view" but then based on their actual legal guidelines and such, he could probably sue if they shut him down for it etc. My point is it's not as simple in this situation in many ways, outside of ideals of course.

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What are you talking about? I am speaking of ninja as an individual perpetuating discrimination against women. As such, he should be called out for it, have attention brought to it, and likely, barred from being awarded as a content creator given his discriminatory practices.

Twitch can terminate his channel for any fucking reason they want and wont get sued because it's their platform. When you sign up you agree to their terms and services which means if they feel like banning you they can. What the fuck is he going to sue them for?

It is simple. It is extremely simple. Why is it so simple for every other streamer but not for ninja? The hoops you're jumping through here to mitigate his continued actions is perplexing, especially when you're making up legal statuses and consequences that arent even real.

Ninja's a total wanker, but he'll win the award.

Gotta be honest, why do folk care anyway? They're meaningless awards.

muteKi said:

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...that was the joke lol.

Skux said:

Predictably the thread turns into another dogpile on his character.

Like it or not, gaming has been moving in this direction for years now. The award recognises and this new form of hybrid media. Geoff is improving this field by having the award. Greater exposure will lead to higher standards of professionalism (as it already has with many top streamers).

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Which is 100% deserved. If he had a higher standards of professionalism than he wouldn't have done the things he has. That's the issue with this whole thing.

Kinthey said:

This isn't just about him but his family. I think people seriously underestimate what "fans" can get up to and that's hardly solvable with some moderated chat



I recommend reading that whole Twitter thread

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No one is underestimating what they can do. It's just a silly response to that.

The gaming industry is not the only place that has to deal with rampant rabid fans, yet you don't see this response in any of those areas. Well, unless you're Mike Pence, but it's not like he got cheered at for doing that either lol.

Aztechnology said:

He gets to make these decisions, I understand your abstraction. But are we going to place rules on peoples decisions as individuals here as well?

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That's the entire concept behind laws and a crucial part of civilized society.

Skeleton said:

People change. I'm embarrassed for you dragging up 2+ year old clips to smear a guy doing a lot of good.

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Oh, is he streaming with women now?

Aztechnology said:

I guess my question is, why are you acting like Ninja is an institution and not a single person.

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He's a millionaire though, not some poor helpless soul.

Moreover, let's remember that his motivation was to avoid gossip, not protect women from harassment.

Skeleton said:

People change. I'm embarrassed for you dragging up 2+ year old clips to smear a guy doing a lot of good.

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He hasn't changed, at all.





https://www.reddit.com/r/FortNiteBR..._poor_player_is_about_to_get_banned_cause_he/

Skux said:

Like it or not, gaming has been moving in this direction for years now. The award recognises and encourages this new form of hybrid media. Geoff is improving this field by having the award. Greater exposure will lead to higher standards of professionalism (as it already has with many top streamers).

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Gaming is more mainstream than it ever has been and it led to gamergate. Recognition for the sake of recognition isn't worth shit if people are going to prop up the worst elements of what they are recognizing as an example.

Lashley said:

Gotta be honest, why do folk care anyway? They're meaningless awards.

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Did you read any of the thread?

Lashley said:

Ninja's a total wanker, but he'll win the award.

Gotta be honest, why do folk care anyway? They're meaningless awards.

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That's why people care. The award is meaningless therefore why should it exist as an award? If they just wanted to acknowledge that Ninja is popular, have him present an award or some crap. Like every other mainstream award show.

ReginaldXIV said:

That's why people care. The award is meaningless therefore why should it exist as an award? If they just wanted to acknowledge that Ninja is popular, have him present an award or some crap. Like every other mainstream award show.

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Ah, good shout.

Shaneus said:

Do we get to nominate people who aren't shitbags for next year? What about people who actually create content and don't just stream bullshit?

Creator of Retronauts, Jeremy Parish:

Press Sneak Fuck, Jason Schreier:

There you go, there's two.

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Imagine that, right?

BRSxIgnition said:

I don't get why this needs an award, same with trending gamer.

They're trending, that's their award. They don't need to be celebrated further.

Celebrate the people who make the games, who come up with the ideas.

Not those who scream infront of a camera and make bank.

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How you don't get? It's to get more viewers for people that otherwise wouldn't watch it. They're bringing those fanbase for even more viewers, that's the biggest reason and I can't blame them when it makes sense and the thing needs viewers to be able to exist.

Ninja really is a c u next Tuesday. Awful.

Man recognizes the complete and utter toxic garbage wasteland that is the internet and tries to protect the most important woman in his life from being exposed to it, gets blasted for being a misogynist.

Geoff keighly is basically the boogie2988 of video game presenters, stands for nothing apart for his kojima obsession

Ninja is very entertaining so I hope he'll win the award.

And I don't really understand why some here are hating on streaming as a form of content creation.

jviggy43 said:

It actually isnt clear at all how the harassment was carried out. And further if it was outside of twitch chat how is it that that is to be avoided at all? The solution is just to just cede to the power if the gamer gate chat and bar women frofrom your stream? Utterly pathetic.

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You think they reached her boyfriend's sister and mother through the twitch chat? Not to mention they set a freaking PI on him. And if you want to avoid any chance that this might happen to your family one option is to just not give them any ammunition.

It sucks, but I'm not going to tell a guy how to watch out for his family

legend166 said:

Man recognizes the complete and utter toxic garbage wasteland that is the internet and tries to protect the most important woman in his life from being exposed to it, gets blasted for being a misogynist.

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Stop gaslighting why he did it. Literally people posted links and clarified why he did this just on the last page and it has nothing to do with protecting women and even if that was the case, isn't any more cogent of an argument.

To be fair nothing is more fitting to highlight just how much gaming is toxic for women than honouring the I won't stream with women guy with a Gamer of the Year award.

"For valiantly taking a stand against playing against playing video games with women and thus accurately representing us all, the Gamer of the Year Award goes to Ninja"

Why are they even shitting up the show with awards like this?

KalBalboa said:

Imagine that, right?

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I would also appreciate if more creators beyond streaming were recognized, but it is some real dumbass elitism to declare that streaming somehow doesn't count under the inherently unbrella term of 'content creator'.

Morrigan said:

He's a millionaire though, not some poor helpless soul.

Moreover, let's remember that his motivation was to avoid gossip, not protect women from harassment.

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Oh sure, but he's still not an institution, he's an an individual, with that choice. All we can do is choose how to react. For many (Companies especially) considering his size and influence. It basically means nothing to them. Thus looping back to my point about idealism vs reality of this decision. I'm glad people are talking about it, as that's the power we have. But don't expect it to stop it unless people stop watching him.

Gegz said:

Ninja is very entertaining so I hope he'll win the award.

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Any thoughts on any of the issues brought up in the thread?

Kinthey said:

You think they reached her boyfriend's sister and mother through the twitch chat? Not to mention they set a freaking PI on him

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I have no idea but this is a really uncompelling argument from that person and you for perpetuating it. Contact the authorities and let them handle it. Giving into toxic behavior only legitimizes said behavior and bolsters it. By this logic no progress would ever be made for equality due to the fact that it will always be met with toxic backlash and from your repeated point of view, would be better to continue to subordinate minority status further rather than have to deal with some faux threats over the internet. Its better to just give in and not rock the boat than it is to actually do the most bare minimum basic thing possible for helping progress and just play some games with women. This culture fucking sucks, and deserves the criticism that gets levied on it.

Ninja is a shithead. Lots of shitheads give to charity. Open, unapologetic bigots have given to charity that saves lives. It doesn't suddenly absolve them, it's two unrelated things.
There's no possible way you can justify to me "I don't play with women". Even if it's to "protect" them, then you need to do better to tell your audience who harasses or abuses women that they're not wanted or welcome. If that loses you a lot of your viewerbase, well, says a lot about the kind of people you actually attract, huh? But if he's as "actually good" as people say, I have a feeling it'll just root out the bad eggs. Oh, reading the thread, it's literally the Pence excuse, not any "protection" thing. Pathetic.

But then, I guess Boogie has won before. So. Shit category, but I guess reflective of how far we still need to go as a community of enthusiasts.

jviggy43 said:

There is no other opinion to consider on topics of discrimination so you can just fuck off with the hive mind rhetoric. The fact you think we need to entertain such views is precisely the issue here.

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Look at you getting so angry over a discussion. This insane hostility towards anyone with a differing opinion is shutting down debate and discussion on this site. What's the point of having the topic in the first place if your view is the only one worth considering?

Edward said:

I never said i wanted him to win it. I simply made a comment based on the video. I don't consume any of his content or any streamer/youtube content, that stuff isn't for me. You and other people keep bringing all the other shit up.

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Because the thread is a discussion about how problematic the award is and the recipients. How the fuck wouldn't we talk about this stuff?

And yes, it is about popularity and that's why he's on it and will win. You can't not have him on it because it's video game awards

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100% you can leave him out. Lots of award and recognition pieces leave these dudes off.

and he's a large part of the influence/game culture now. You take the good with the bad and i am sure Geoff doesn't mind have an influx of younger people tuning in to see if Ninja wins.

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Obviously. Geoff doesn't give a shit about this because the awards are about hype and money. How can anyone of note take this shit seriously with the record of the people they hand awards to and the crazy marketing and advertising blitz?

The reason this award exists is solely to get viewers and viewers are exactly what a show like The Game Awards DESPERATELY needs. Ninja is literally appearing on Ellen and at every TV commercial break. He is probably the most famous "gamer" in the history of video games. Ninja certainly isn't for me, but he is a phenomenon. Hah, I love Schreier, but people saying nominate him or anyone else hopefully aren't trying to run a business someday. There's a lot of mouths to feed on a production that large and that has such a tenuous history. If you can get the most popular gamer in history, it's simple.

Whole "debate" reminds me of this line from The Wire.


To be clear, I think Ninja has done some shit in his past. He's also done a lot of good. But the bottom line is that if he is "good enough" for Ellen, he's certainly good enough for The Game Awards.

Lol, this award is such a joke. It's pretty much exclusively gone to pieces of shit.

I'd vote for Sterling.

FrostyLemon said:

Look at you getting so angry over a discussion. This insane hostility towards anyone with a differing opinion is shutting down debate and discussion on this site. What's the point of having the topic in the first place if your view is the only one worth considering?

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What is the alternative viewpoint to being against discrimination that needs to be entertained?

Wolfman said:

Why are they even shitting up the show with awards like this?

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MONEY

FrostyLemon said:

Look at you getting so angry over a discussion. This insane hostility towards anyone with a differing opinion is shutting down debate and discussion on this site. What's the point of having the topic in the first place if your view is the only one worth considering?

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Where are you getting that I am angry? What a sad attempt to pull a"u mad bro".

Again I'll put the question to you, what part about discrimination do you think needs to be open to discussion here? Please, expand on this for us. Because were talking about discrimination. You seem to take issue with the position that we should not allow discrimination and I would love to hear you lay our what it is about discrimination that we have wrong and why we should open our minds to it. Go on, tell us.

jviggy43 said:

Stop gaslighting why he did it. Literally people posted links and clarified why he did this just on the last page and it has nothing to do with protecting women and even if that was the case, isn't any more cogent of an argument.

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I didn't say he did it to protect women. I think he did it to protect a woman.

jviggy43 said:

I have no idea but this is a really uncompelling argument from that person and you for perpetuating it. Contact the authorities and let them handle it. Giving into toxic behavior only legitimizes said behavior and bolsters it. By this logic no progress would ever be made for equality due to the fact that it will always be met with toxic backlash and from your repeated point of view, would be better to continue to subordinate minority status further rather than have to deal with some faux threats over the internet. Its better to just give in and not rock the boat than it is to actually do the most bare minimum basic thing possible for helping progress and just play some games with women. This culture fucking sucks, and deserves the criticism that gets levied on it.

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Sure it would be heroic to take that harassment and fight against it, but that someone might not want to put his family through all that is also perfectly understandabe

Keith Stat said:

To be clear, I think Ninja has done some shit in his past. He's also done a lot of good. But the bottom line is that if he is "good enough" for Ellen, he's certainly good enough for The Game Awards.

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I don't think being on a daytime talk show is a good barometer for is someone is a good example or should be rewarded. Yes, we all know a lot of people don't give a shit about women/minorities, that's why we speak up.

Kinthey said:

Sure it would be heroic to take that harassment and fight against it, but that someone might not want to put his family through all that is also perfectly understandabe

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And you don't do that by discriminating against women. Nobody is saying don't fight back, but you don't use it as a shield to pursue discrimination.

RADRAD said:

No, but using them as permanent penalties on a human that can better themselves down the line, that's just not right. If it were homophobic or sexist verbiage, I'd feel the same.

Everyone is capable of learning from their mistakes. He's clearly pressed the right buttons at some point in his life. He's preferable to the real toxic venomous poisons of the twitch streaming library, and I obviously get that multiplying by zero still equals zero, but it's NOT zero times zero here.

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There's been no penalty, he's still the most popular streamer in the world.

Falconbox said:

You may not like some of them, but they've helped make gaming more mainstream now than it ever has been before.

I've seen kids playing Fortnite on their phones at a restaurant and overheard them talking about a Ninja stream they saw recently. I love how openly excited people are now for gaming.

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Lmao, it's just videogames, it's not like he's out there saving lives.

Arkeband said:

Streamers being called "content creators" is the most vapid and non-specific nomenclature imaginable.

Mega64 and Rooster Teeth are actual content creators.

Ninja's more of a hype man babysitter.

And this category having given awards to Boogie1488 and Dr Adultery basically makes it tainted. Scrap it and start over.

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I don't think you want to give RT the nomination either. They've been known to say some really shitty things.

Marbles the dog should win the award.

Shaneus said:

Do we get to nominate people who aren't shitbags for next year? What about people who actually create content and don't just stream bullshit?

Creator of Retronauts, Jeremy Parish:

Press Sneak Fuck, Jason Schreier:

There you go, there's two.

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never and to explain why I'll answer this question:

Wolfman said:

Why are they even shitting up the show with awards like this?

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Because the gaming industry actively needs shitbags to buy and sell their games for them.... The entire culture is derived from the industry feeding into all the toxicity for $$$, it's a sick system and a sick cycle of co-dependence and eternal adolescence.

Gaming isn't interested in being taken serious like say films or music or whatever because gaming makes its money by remaining locked in juvenileism, it actively helps them to discourage deep analysis, and to reward trashy gamers than thoughtful players and historians, that\swhy even 101 level college feminist analysis is treated as a scandal whereas film has entire degrees based around feminist analysis lol.

Think about it the big Gaming award show is far more like the People's Choice awards or the Nickelodeon Kids' Choice Awards or the MTV Movie awards than the Grammys, Emmys or Oscars. Largely because the gaming industry encourages its consumer base to never want more than that, and in fact to be hostile to the idea that gaming could or should be more than that. It's why Gone Home was treated as an actual existential threat to gaming when it got good reviews, Gamers were convinced this one game doing well meant their games they love would never get made anymore or some bullshit. The idea of one game not for them was a call to arms...

Gaming wants to be art without any of the responsibility of art.

Kinthey said:

Sure it would be heroic to take that harassment and fight against it, but that someone might not want to put his family through all that is also perfectly understandabe

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Its not actually heroic its just basic human decency imo.

legend166 said:

I didn't say he did it to protect women. I think he did it to protect a woman.

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Which is still gaslighting and not why he did it.

RedMercury said:

What is the alternative viewpoint to being against discrimination that needs to be entertained?

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Discrimination isn't always negative and depending on context in case be a good thing. Now that's not really the case with this discussion, but the point is that context is important.

The context of the situation doesn't make it a black and white case and I've listened to lots of people support his decision. Even women. Even women working in the games industry.

Lashley said:

He hasn't changed, at all.

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Wow that video ..how he acts just wow

Lashley said:

He hasn't changed, at all.

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Every single time I have watched be it Fortnite or even more so with PUBG he would complain without fail about stream snipers.

The man is a bag of dicks.

jviggy43 said:

Where are you getting that I am angry? What a sad attempt to pull a"u mad bro".

Again I'll put the question to you, what part about discrimination do you think needs to be open to discussion here? Please, expand on this for us. Because were talking about discrimination. You seem to take issue with the position that we should not allow discrimination and I would love to hear you lay our what it is about discrimination that we have wrong and why we should open our minds to it. Go on, tell us.

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The 'fuck off' seemed a bit over the top.

Is discrimination always wrong?

Kinthey said:

Sure it would be heroic to take that harassment and fight against it, but that someone might not want to put his family through all that is also perfectly understandabe

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Not if it involved excluding an entire gender from your stream in the name of avoiding gossip. Gossip said streamer has perpetuated in the past.

Other people in the spotlight manage to deal with this awful subset of the community without coming up with a ridiculous discriminatory response.

FrostyLemon said:

The 'fuck off' seemed a bit over the top.

Is discrimination always wrong?

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You gonna have to explain this one man.

I mean, come on. Does gaming really need this award?

FrostyLemon said:

Discrimination isn't always negative and depending on context in case be a good thing. Now that's not really the case with this discussion, but the point is that context is important.

The context of the situation doesn't make it a black and white case and I've listened to lots of people support his decision. Even women. Even women working in the games industry.

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Why even bring this up when we admit it has no bearing on the actual discussion? What a redundant thing to say.

Further explain how the context of this situation is not black and white. And once again, using the "some women agree so it must be right" argument is another version of "can't be racist because I have black friends who agree with racism".

FrostyLemon said:

The 'fuck off' seemed a bit over the top.

Is discrimination always wrong?

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Probably because acting as if shutting down rheotric designed at prolonging gender discrimination under the guise of a "hive mind" is nothing Im going to put up with, not that Im angry over it.

Read the above for my response to your question. Youre talking about context while ignoring all context within this particular manner (youve yet to even engage with the context of this situation in this thread). A redundant and soporific question. Answer what part about discrimination in this case requires us to open our minds to it.