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EvilRedEye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
747
Even though I didn't like Tsuranga, I'm surprised the AI tanked so significantly. I'm wondering if there's something behind it. With Heaven Sent, the AI dipped because there was a massive generational split and older viewers didn't like it. I'm wondering if the pregnant man genuinely pissed off older viewers or something.
 

Paradox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
679
Daleks for Christmas/very early S12?

I'm very curious to see how they eventually handle Daleks, or any 'famous' enemy, given the new tone.

Like, whether you consider it intentional or not, the enemies this season have been very low-key with an emphasis on the human side of things. How do you take the Daleks, which are fairly in your face evil, or the Cybermen which, outside of the body horror stuff, are pretty goofy robots, and make them work with this mostly 'serious' tone.

Case in point the Pting. Part of the reason Tsuranga doesn't really work is because that's a creature ripped from one of the previous two eras (although maybe not Capaldi's), and placed into an episode where everything was super serious and grounded. No one points out how ridiculous the thing looks because that's not what the show does any more.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,810
I'm very curious to see how they eventually handle Daleks, or any 'famous' enemy, given the new tone...

Like, whether you consider it intentional or not, the enemies this season have been very low-key with an emphasis on the human side of things. or the Cybermen...

CC would likely re-shape their back story, into a more tragic tale, and a grey moral area. Possibly have the Doctor feel more sympathetic towards them, and humanise them more. i.e. more drama, less sci-fi.
 

thefro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,996
CC would likely re-shape their back story, into a more tragic tale, and a grey moral area. Possibly have the Doctor feel more sympathetic towards them, and humanise them more. i.e. more drama, less sci-fi.

The Doctor discovers that the Daleks were only trying to exterminate the universe because they're lonely, and everyone that gets zapped actually goes to another dimension that's like Heaven. Episode ends with the Daleks sending Graham to the heaven dimension to be with Grace and Ryan and Yas adopting a baby Dalek. The Doctor vows to protect the Daleks from all the other misunderstood and not really evil aliens in the universe.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,810
The Doctor discovers that the Daleks were only trying to exterminate the universe because they're lonely, and everyone that gets zapped actually goes to another dimension that's like Heaven. Episode ends with the Daleks sending Graham to the heaven dimension to be with Grace and Ryan and Yas adopting a baby Dalek. The Doctor vows to protect the Daleks from all the other misunderstood and not really evil aliens in the universe.

Can you imagine how the Series 9 opening two-parter would have been written by CC ?
Davros really having a change of heart etc.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Quite enjoyed the latest episode, wasn't what I expected and I like the return to more period settings and educational stuff here and there.

One question though-
I thought it was a bit odd that nobody noticed
the holy man had been killed by a rifle because of the alien dust stuff on his chest. I mean, surely when Yaz and co were getting him ready for burial, they would have moved him and noticed the blood/wound, if not before? And what about the guy whose rifle it was, presumably he's intimately familiar with what a rifle wound might look like?
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,805
Sheffield, UK
Quite enjoyed the latest episode, wasn't what I expected and I like the return to more period settings and educational stuff here and there.

One question though-
I thought it was a bit odd that nobody noticed
the holy man had been killed by a rifle because of the alien dust stuff on his chest. I mean, surely when Yaz and co were getting him ready for burial, they would have moved him and noticed the blood/wound, if not before? And what about the guy whose rifle it was, presumably he's intimately familiar with what a rifle wound might look like?
Heh, I noticed that too.

He was on the alien ship with the Doctor when the body was moved, I think.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,604
One of the best things I can say is that they didn't try to aggressively set Jodie Doctor a part from the others, which would have been weird. She just feels like the Doctor, but her own spin on it. No different than Capaldi, Smith, Tenant, etc.

My fiance is watching the show for the first time with this season, and she's mentioned to me a couple times that -- knowing only Jodie as the Doctor -- she's curious about what the character is like as a man, because this Doctor acts so often in a feminine manner. And I was like, actually, pretty much exactly the same! Jodie feels exactly to me like the four who came before her.
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,725
England
Even though I didn't like Tsuranga, I'm surprised the AI tanked so significantly. I'm wondering if there's something behind it. With Heaven Sent, the AI dipped because there was a massive generational split and older viewers didn't like it. I'm wondering if the pregnant man genuinely pissed off older viewers or something.

It could be that, but I also think Tsuranga's low AI is a consequence of the show's new attitude/direction. That is to say - generally speaking you can have a really shit episode (like, say, Fear Her or Curse of the Black Spot) but it'll get by on AI because it's got a cool-looking monster, or pirates. Or, like, the Adipose were silly, but Partners in Crime definitely gets by on a combination of the Tennant/Tate comedy and the heartfelt scenes with Wilf. My point is like - there have been a lot of episodes comparable to Tsuranga in the reboot years, I think, but because the Chibnall era is shaping up to be less sharp and witty and doesn't barrel along at such a "ah, forget it and just enjoy the ride" pace, people can linger on what's uniquely crap about it more easily and that results in lower AIs.

My tldr is just to say that I think the show's new tone means that worse episodes are more easily exposed as such, whereas sometimes a stinker could trade on bombast alone under RTD and Moffat.

Daleks for Christmas/very early S12?

I still think it's likely we'll get New Year Daleks, but I think the whole pitch for Series 12 is likely to be "LOOK! Old monsters!! Campy monsters!!", as that seems to be the most common criticism.
 
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Spectromixer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
16,615
USA
So I just watched Demosn of the Punjab, I was busy this weekend, and that episode was amazing. Easily the best episode this season, although Rosa is very close. Just everything about that episode was perfect. I love Jodie and and Yas, and I love how they are using the historical episodes to teach people about historical events. If we get a handful of 'ok' episodes and two excellent ones like Rosa and Demons, then I will be good.
 

Taki

Attempt to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,308
This youtuber is doing a multi-part retrospective on each Doctor Who:



Deserves more subscribers.
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890

The next episode looks deliciously sci-fi.
In space, futuristic setting, creepy potentially (but probably not) murderous robots.

That's the kind of camp we've been missing this season
 

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,242
A lot of pepole are saying that Jodie is going to be in Doctor Who for three seasons https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/13/jodi...ars-says-ex-showrunner-steven-moffat-8136484/ but this does come from the Daily Star so "shrugs"
I love how sites make many stories with such declarative and certain titles out of throwaway and speculative comments.
This is the direct Moffat quote:
He said: "I think that's why they last about three years -– the amount of line learning they have to do."
"I never thought about what Matt Smith had to do until the very end. He put so much work into it."
 

@ShenmueGuru

Member
Nov 7, 2017
285
So these last 3 episodes... Is there any sort of overall story at all? No season arch? If this season's episodes have all been standalone, I have to admit, it's going to undo a lot of positives I've seen, and ultimately leave me with the impression of whilst it's been a good start for Jodie and the team, the stories have been wafer thin from a Doctor Who perspective.
 

Spectromixer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
16,615
USA
Episode titles and synopsis's

11.09 It Takes You Away

"On the edge of a Norwegian fjord, in the present day, The Doctor, Ryan, Graham and Yaz discover a boarded-up cottage and a girl named Hanne in need of their help. What has happened here? What monster lurks in the woods around the cottage – and beyond?"

11.10 The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos

On the planet of Ranskoor Av Kolos, lies the remains of a brutal battlefield. But as the Doctor, Graham, Yaz and Ryan answer nine separate distress calls, they discover the planet holds far more secrets. Who is the mysterious commander with no memory? What lies beyond the mists? Who or what are the Ux?

The answers will lead the Doctor and her friends towards a deadly reckoning.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
So these last 3 episodes... Is there any sort of overall story at all? No season arch? If this season's episodes have all been standalone, I have to admit, it's going to undo a lot of positives I've seen, and ultimately leave me with the impression of whilst it's been a good start for Jodie and the team, the stories have been wafer thin from a Doctor Who perspective.

No, Chris has been upfront since the very beginning that this season would consist of standalone episodes. Most of the arcs consist of emotional arcs rather than plot arcs. There is no "grand mystery", no "secret cabal", no "master of your pain" plotline. And I like that because it allows the individual episodes to stand on its own. I don't see why doctor who needs a series arc.
 

EvilRedEye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
747
Can't really say the finale title and synopsis are filling me with confidence for Chibnall's last shot at glory.
 

Ventilaator

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
781
I don't see why doctor who needs a series arc.

Agreed.

If it was up to me, every Doctor Who episode would start with a shot of the Tardis arriving somewhere. The crew steps out, has their adventure, and then steps back into the Tardis (which is still where it was when they arrived) to leave. Breaking from this format would be for once-per-season "Shit just got real" moments.
 

LL_Decitrig

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,334
Sunderland
No, Chris has been upfront since the very beginning that this season would consist of standalone episodes. Most of the arcs consist of emotional arcs rather than plot arcs. There is no "grand mystery", no "secret cabal", no "master of your pain" plotline. And I like that because it allows the individual episodes to stand on its own. I don't see why doctor who needs a series arc.

I don't think a show necessarily needs a season arc, either. It's become expected as serial television drama has evolved, but if the individual episodes are strong enough they're enough to keep people coming back.

From the point of view of the casual viewer, season arcs are a potential barrier to entry. As a newcomer you may be looking for an individual episode that will make sense to you, but if the writers have padded it with this season's McGuffin you may just end up confused and dissatisfied.

Two of this series' episodes have stood out for me, Rosa and Demons of the Punjab. I can recommend them to anybody as the very first Doctor Who they've ever seen. On the other end of the scale are such works as The Name of the Doctor and Heaven Sent. Even though one of those is correctly regarded as a high point of the show, they're far less accessible than any of the shows in Series 11.
 

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,242
Can't really say the finale title and synopsis are filling me with confidence for Chibnall's last shot at glory.
It really doesn't make me care at all. That last line in any other season would make me nervous in anticipation. But not this year.
Because if anything, the lack of a real connective tissue across the season means the show has failed to get me invested into these characters.
So far, I'd reckon that within about a month from them leaving, I'd probably struggle to remember Ryan and Yaz. They didn't matter very much.
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,318
No, Chris has been upfront since the very beginning that this season would consist of standalone episodes. Most of the arcs consist of emotional arcs rather than plot arcs. There is no "grand mystery", no "secret cabal", no "master of your pain" plotline. And I like that because it allows the individual episodes to stand on its own. I don't see why doctor who needs a series arc.
pretty sure the show has been setting up a series arc anyway, what with Tim Shaw's alien race fucking things up for everyone in the background, and whatever the weird flying carpet things were taunting the Doctor with in Ghost Monument
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,604
3 series over 4 years seems like the norm for modern Doctors. This show just takes a lot of fucking work to make. Even lifelong Doctor Who fanboys like Tennant and Capaldi get burned out by the end of it.

Also, that finale title/synopsis sounds like a Moffat episode.
 
OP
OP
Dwebble

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,623
DWM confirms that we're getting a New Year's Day special rather than a Christmas one this year.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,604
Twice Upon a Time is a lovely episode and I like it more and more each time, so I'm glad Moffat stayed around for it even it does end up being the last Christmas special.
 
OP
OP
Dwebble

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,623
I don't follow. Are you saying he's being hypocritical because not every successful franchise he's been involved in has had a special broadcast on Christmas Day?
No, I'm saying that Moffat's not likely to be sore that the show's airing on New Year's Day because he knows first-hand how successful a new year's slot can be.

Twice Upon a Time wasn't done to defend a specific slot, it was done to avoid the BBC giving up entirely on a festive special.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,604
No, I'm saying that Moffat's not likely to be sore that the show's airing on New Year's Day because he knows first-hand how successful a new year's slot can be.

Twice Upon a Time wasn't done to defend a specific slot, it was done to avoid the BBC giving up entirely on a festive special.
He pretty explicitly said he wanted to defend that Christmas slot. Since he cites the increasingly packed schedule of tv on Christmas as a reason why skipping it one year could potentially Who off it permanently, I don't think it was just about the general idea of a holiday season special.

"There was one big glitch, which was Christmas. I was going to leave at the end of series 10 – I had my finale planned and what I wanted to do with it. I had a good notion of that. Then I learned at a drinks event somewhere that Chris didn't want to start with a Christmas, so at that point they were going to skip Christmas. There'd be no Christmas special and we would've lost that slot. Doctor Who would've lost that slot if we hadn't [done a special] because Christmas Day is now so rammed. So I said, probably four glasses of red wine in, 'I'll do Christmas!' and then had to persuade Peter [Capaldi] that's how we were leaving. Then I had to work out how you could get mortally injured in one episode and spend an hour regenerating on Christmas Day, which I hopefully have done!"
http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/doctor-who/news/a834617/doctor-who-christmas-special-almost-scrapped/
 

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,242
Either way, five seasons with the same Doctor is too much. You want to leave before people start getting tired of you.
5 years or not, Chibnall will not stick with 13 for his entire run. Like Moffat and RTD, he will oversee two Doctors.

And I find it difficult to imagine that Whittaker will be interested in doing that, anyway.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,489
5 years or not, Chibnall will not stick with 13 for his entire run. Like Moffat and RTD, he will oversee two Doctors.

And I find it difficult to imagine that Whittaker will be interested in doing that, anyway.

Agreed. She's still young, she shouldn't be tied down to just doing Who for half a decade. Her career's got a lot more places to go after this.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,116
It's mostly scuttlebutt. I've heard the five-year-plan thing as well, but these kinds of things can and do change.

Either way, five seasons with the same Doctor is too much. You want to leave before people start getting tired of you.
I mean 5 year plan is fine, considering the rumblings are that they're skipping 2019. Would that be included in it?
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,489
I mean 5 year plan is fine, considering the rumblings are that they're skipping 2019. Would that be included in it?

Could be. I think it would be a pretty monumentally stupid idea to do another off year after the gap year between Clara and Bill, though. If Chibs can't keep the show consistent, he's the wrong person to run it for the long haul.