Star Citizen Alpha 3.3.0 | Thread Title Delayed Until 3.3.5

Vanta Aurelius · Nov 27, 2017

For those who don't have access to the 3.0 PTU, but want to get an idea of what the experience is like:

Really great video. Makes me want to invest in SC, so I can jump into the Alpha mix.

On another note, has there been any news on jungle planets? Seeing a planet with lots of vegetation and animal life (both land and aquatic) would be incredible! Literally landing on a planet and having a Crysis 1 like experience is a dream goal!

Deleted member 7756 · Nov 27, 2017

How is the support for Logitech Hotas 4 PC/PS4 stick?

I got it for Tie Fighter mainly, but would love to use it in this.

cyress8 · Nov 27, 2017

DudleyBoi said:
On another note, has there been any news on jungle planets? Seeing a planet with lots of vegetation and animal life (both land and aquatic) would be incredible! Literally landing on a planet and having a Crysis 1 like experience is a dream goal!

If I'm not mistaken. They have already showcased this. I can't remember the AtV but it was not too long ago. They were showing different biomes.

NuMiQ · Nov 27, 2017

The black screen when loading is normal, can take a few mins. If it lasts too long, kill the program.
You can press the ` or ~ key (next to 1) to open the console and actually see it doing something.

KKRT · Nov 27, 2017

DudleyBoi said:
On another note, has there been any news on jungle planets? Seeing a planet with lots of vegetation and animal life (both land and aquatic) would be incredible! Literally landing on a planet and having a Crysis 1 like experience is a dream goal!

Thats the goal and they showcased some of it already.

chifanpoe · Nov 27, 2017

KKRT said:
Thats the goal and they showcased some of it already.

Yes, this. They have also done a few live demos of creating creatures for the game. We have also seen a huge sandworm in action.

Zabojnik · Nov 28, 2017

DudleyBoi said:
For those who don't have access to the 3.0 PTU, but want to get an idea of what the experience is like:

Really great video. Makes me want to invest in SC, so I can jump into the Alpha mix.

This is great. I love how dark it is on the dark side of the moons (duh). Makes you realize how important something as simple as proper lighting could be to defending an outpost. I can already imagine sneaking up on a group of unsuspecting no good doers with a couple of buddies in tow, saying 'alright gentlemen, light them up' as everyone fires a flare just above the aforementioned baddies, literally lighting them up and exposing / blinding them, seconds before bullets start flying. Adds a whole another dimension to 'they never saw us coming'.

napoleonic · Nov 28, 2017

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/16278-UEE-Land-Claim-Licenses

Totally NOT A SCAM, guys.

Lulz.

Staticneuron · Nov 28, 2017

napoleonic said:
Totally NOT A SCAM, guys.

Lulz.

Not sure why you posted that and made reference to a scam. Link doesn't provide info. How about...

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/16292-Q-A-Land-Claim-License/

TL;DR (provided by GunFodder)

These claims are essentially preordering the paperwork and beacon to claim a parcel of land, which you still have to hunt down and prospect (if you want to see if there's anything worthwhile there, which will vary depending who's looking to own it).

It's only a legal document and a beacon. Unless you shoot the interlopers looking to walk around your plot, it does nothing other than being able to report them for trespassing.

This only applies to UEE space.

These will be 100% purchasable in-game for credits, and the mechanic isn't close to being implemented.

There will be billions of square kilometers. Lots and Estates are 4×4 km (16 sq km) and 8×8 km (64 sq km). Do the math.

Most importantly this mechanic was introduced with the Pioneer.

Interesting to see you back with the slant though.

Kormora · Nov 28, 2017

Thing I don't understand is doesn't CIG already have enough money to pay off development? Or was that BS? Something about this seems kind of predatory.I backed the game years ago and been following this on and off it just seems weird.

Staticneuron · Nov 28, 2017

Kormora said:
Thing I don't understand is doesn't CIG already have enough money to pay off development? Or was that BS? Something about this seems kind of predatory.I backed the game years ago and been following this on and off it just seems weird.

How can these sales be predatory when you don't need to buy them? The Pioneer already comes with claims. And this feature is useless for now. The mechanic isn't going to be in the game anytime soon. Felt like you pledged enough then don't invest anymore.

Boss · Nov 28, 2017

Kormora said:
Thing I don't understand is doesn't CIG already have enough money to pay off development? Or was that BS? Something about this seems kind of predatory.I backed the game years ago and been following this on and off it just seems weird.

We don't know how much money CIG needs to finish development of the game, they saw an opportunity to expand player engagement with the planets and moons by offering base building which opens up more gameplay and sandbox opportunities. Yes, whether selling game-items for money sits right with you is up to the individual and there is no need at all to buy anything with real money, nor do they compel anyone too, in all QA's, all major announcements, all major presentations they stress the fact that every ship, item, etc will be available to purchase in-game with in game currency earned through in game activities.

chifanpoe · Nov 28, 2017

It is basically an ADT like service "protection service" for land that you use in UEE controlled space. So if I want to setup a mining station on my plot and I don't want pirates to come and take it I put my beacon in the ground to protect it. If someone comes and starts taking my stuff while I am out UEE will be notified and eventually send out its protection goons, flag the person(s) who did it as criminals and possibly set bountys on them.

It is not required to use any land on a moon or planet. You can setup shop/base/ect in UEE protected or non-UEE protected space.

Jraphics Horse · Nov 28, 2017

Kormora said:
Thing I don't understand is doesn't CIG already have enough money to pay off development? Or was that BS?

They have said that the income dictates the scope of what they do. It's unrealistic for them to be able to fund development for years without further revenue while they have 400+ staff.

Akronis · Nov 28, 2017

napoleonic said:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/16278-UEE-Land-Claim-Licenses
Totally NOT A SCAM, guys.

Lulz.

You were already banned once. I don't think you'll be here much longer if you continue.

Grigorig · Nov 28, 2017

I threw down 80 bucks for this back in the day, every time I try it the framerate is just diabolical, even on my 1080. Here's hoping the performance is better these days..

cyress8 · Nov 28, 2017

napoleonic said:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/16278-UEE-Land-Claim-Licenses

Totally NOT A SCAM, guys.

Lulz.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7g80ce/did_you_know_if_all_19_million_current_star/

Boss · Nov 28, 2017

Akronis said:
You were already banned once. I don't think you'll be here much longer if you continue.

Don't give the troll the attention he craves, just report it. He clearly cares enough about the game to stay up to date with developments and then shitpost about how much of a scam the game is for whatever reason.

Dubbedinenglish · Nov 28, 2017

Grigorig said:
I threw down 80 bucks for this back in the day, every time I try it the framerate is just diabolical, even on my 1080. Here's hoping the performance is better these days..

Server side frame rate, try in Arena commander with bots to get good performance.

Raticus79 · Nov 28, 2017

Dubbedinenglish said:
Server side frame rate, try in Arena commander with bots to get good performance.

It's fine in the hangar now too, if people just want to check out the ships.

Zabojnik · Nov 28, 2017

So we just need about ~4 million additional members and E503 will be able to claim an entire planet. We shall call it Zalulandia.

Might be time to start looking into those Chinese twitter bots, see if they can be repurposed.

Geist · Nov 28, 2017

Zabojnik said:
So we just need about ~4 million additional members and E503 will be able to claim an entire planet. We shall call it Zalulandia.

Might be time to start looking into those Chinese twitter bots, see if they can be repurposed.

They all need to buy the game, who's going to bankroll that? :-P

The Land Claim thing isn't a great look though, I wish they wouldn't try to monetize every aspect of the game. I'd appreciate if they gave us some assurances about post-release monetization, it's getting kind of stressful worrying that they won't be willing to give up their ship selling cash cow.

Zabojnik · Nov 28, 2017

Geist said:
They all need to buy the game, who's going to bankroll that? :-P

The Land Claim thing isn't a great look though, I wish they wouldn't try to monetize every aspect of the game. I'd appreciate if they gave us some assurances about post-release monetization, it's getting kind of stressful worrying that they won't be willing to give up their ship selling cash cow.

You'll be able to buy everything in the game, m8. Even the game itself. *shyamalalalalalan.png*

It's the price of riding the crowdfunding wave all the way, I'm afraid. They're obviously not doing it out of greed, but rather necessity. As long as nothing's "obligatory" and [mantra] everything can be bought in the game [/mantra] without having to slave away for months, I really don't care. In fact, I'm glad they're coming up with different monetization options, as selling ships alone probably won't cut it in the long run. Were it for me, I'd gladly fork out 10€ per month once the game goes live (whatever that means), if it meant not having to deal with all this freemium nonsense. I've always hated the idea of it. No matter how "fair" CIG's intentions, it always comes down to us vs. them.

chifanpoe · Nov 28, 2017

Booker.DeWitt · Nov 28, 2017

This or no man's sky ?

chifanpoe · Nov 28, 2017

Booker.DeWitt said:
This or no man's sky ?

Why not both?

Geist · Nov 29, 2017

Zabojnik said:
They're obviously not doing it out of greed, but rather necessity.

I want to believe, but it would be nice to have some assurances, because it looks a lot like greed. Like for instance, maybe tell us what they're plan is for post-release monetization besides some vague offhand comments.

Rivi · Nov 29, 2017

I have no problem with the land claim the issue I have is that they announced this now and surely it won't be a proper working feature for probably a year and a half or more.

Include · Nov 29, 2017

I do have an issue with the land claim for two reasons :

1. You cannot buy it with credit of your melted stuff, just new cash and will not be able to melt it once you do.

2. People who buys it will claim the prime locations first (near the outposts and hot spots) unlike people who doesn't and have to grind for who knows how long.

If we had a basic idea of what missions earns you in game and how much in game money the land claim cost then I would feel more comfortable.

As it stands the economy is not fleshed out yet and while I understand that the company may have run out or need more money to keep going, I don't think it's the right way to do it.

If selling new ships isn't generating enough income then perhaps they should sell skins for the said ships or clothes for the characters, it will certainly avoid any concerns going forward in my opinion.

Aztechnology · Nov 29, 2017

Include said:
I do have an issue with the land claim for two reasons :

1. You cannot buy it with credit of your melted stuff, just new cash and will not be able to melt it once you do.

2. People who buys it will claim the prime locations first (near the outposts and hot spots) unlike people who doesn't and have to grind for who knows how long.

If we had a basic idea of what missions earns you in game and how much in game money the land claim cost then I would feel more comfortable.

As it stands the economy is not fleshed out yet and while I understand that the company may have run out or need more money to keep going, I don't think it's the right way to do it.

If selling new ships isn't generating enough income then perhaps they should sell skins for the said ships or clothes for the characters, it will certainly avoid any concerns going forward in my opinion.

I generally agree with this. There are other less core game related ways of doing this, and it's only getting worse as people just continue to pony up and then hand waive. There has to be things in game at launch and beyond, that is an "even" playing field of at least a shared starting point (ships no withstanding). I know it's not possible to make it genuinely fair at this point... But this kind of thing is just making it worse.

As time goes on, there's less and less common ground that's going to be available for players of different starting "wealth" lets say. And honestly, I feel like after Elite Dangerous, who at release's core driving factor was getting new ships, in some ways it feels like those who are buying every option in sight, are not really going to have anything worth working towards.

I know there's communities of players from EVE, or are like EVE players that care about the meta game, political intrigue, faction griefing etc more. But there still needs to be a motivating core game for the common player. Otherwise, it won't have a thriving player base long and incentives for players to return.

KKRT · Nov 29, 2017

Include said:
2. People who buys it will claim the prime locations first (near the outposts and hot spots) unlike people who doesn't and have to grind for who knows how long.

What prime locations? We do not know even how prime locations will look like and for now it seems like the only locations that dependent on resources are mining related and you can have outposts that do different things.

And in the end even mining doesnt cut it, as we do not know yet if the most valuable resources will even be in UEE space and you need to claiming anything outside of UEE space.
And another thing is scale. With more solar systems in game, there will be dozens planets and moons to claim, so the amount of tiles to claim will be in hundreds of millions, seriously just do the math for a moon that has like 1500KM radius.
Additionally i'm pretty sure that mining will also be done on asteroids as well (they talked about in the past), not only planets, which you cannot claim.

And in the end you will be able to buy it with normal UEC.
I would not worry about this stuff at all, especially in scale of SC.

zeknurn · Nov 29, 2017

The thing is, by selling more ingame things for real money without putting it into the context of the economy they're setting themselves up for more potential outrage when the economy is defined. You either have the people who bought things for real money who will get angry if what they spent money on is easily obtained ingame or you have the rest of the masses who will get angry if those who spent money get a significant advantage.

It's a lose lose situation.

Include · Nov 29, 2017

KKRT said:
snip

Outposts, hot-spots, big cities, trading posts, cargo posts, factories? Near jump points, near more secure and tightly controlled zone... Etc. Why does it have to be about mining specifically?

And yes I am aware about being able to earn it in game but you ignored my point on how much it will cost in game and how long it will take to earn it while others who bought it will already claim the spots I mentioned above.

You also ignored my point about being able to buy it right now only with new cash instead of what we already spent.

We don't know anything about how to economy will works or how to planets are designed either and what are the possible consequences of this in real game play situation. I wish they shared their vision before making this move that may affect the game play.

I never took issues to big expensive ships because we have data about how difficult it's going to be to operate, people who bought them need money for fuel, insurance, hiring npcs to operate the ship, buying AI turrets slaves, hiring escorts to protect them... Etc.

When it comes to land claim, we only know that the universe is big and we all be able to have a land in game be it paid or just settle and not being protected. But how much it's gonna cost us? How long will it take? Meanwhile those who buy it can settle right away when the game release near the hot-spots I mentioned and will have an advantage in that regard.

It's like in real world, buying a land in a middle of nowhere is possible after saving enough money but the issue is that it is in the middle of nowhere and the value of that land isn't the same as near or at big cities.

So yes I have some concerns and I wish they offered skins or clothes or anything else with cosmetic value or with cons like owning big ships over small one than putting land claim for sells.

KKRT · Nov 29, 2017

Include said:
Outposts, hot-spots, big cities, trading posts, cargo posts, factories? Near jump points, near more secure and tightly controlled zone... Etc. Why does it have to be about mining specifically?

And yes I am aware about being able to earn it in game but you ignored my point on how much it will cost in game and how long it will take to earn it while others who bought it will already claim the spots I mentioned above.

You also ignored my point about being able to buy it right now only with new cash instead of what we already spent.

We don't know anything about how to economy will works or how to planets are designed either and what are the possible consequences of this in real game play situation. I wish they shared their vision before making this move that may affect the game play.

I never took issues to big expensive ships because we have data about how difficult it's going to be to operate, people who bought them need money for fuel, insurance, hiring npcs to operate the ship, buying AI turrets slaves, hiring escorts to protect them... Etc.

When it comes to land claim, we only know that the universe is big and we all be able to have a land in game be it paid or just settle and not being protected. But how much it's gonna cost us? How long will it take? Meanwhile those who buy it can settle right away when the game release near the hot-spots I mentioned and will have an advantage in that regard.

It's like in real world, buying a land in a middle of nowhere is possible after saving enough money but the issue is that it is in the middle of nowhere and the value of that land isn't the same as near or at big cities.

So yes I have some concerns and I wish they offered skins or clothes or anything else with cosmetic value or with cons like owning big ships over small one than putting land claim for sells.

And you ignore the scale again. Just do some math how many people will buy those claims and how many spots there will be and if you take only 0.001% of those spots as 'premium', i'm pretty sure number will be exponentially bigger than players willing to buy those claim certificates.
Closer outposts, hot-spots, big cities etc - we are talking about game with space ships going 1km/s :)
Jump points are not static, as planets moves and rotate.

There is practically no way, any solely corporation can map even several planets and claim the best spots, if there are any, within even a day.
Then there will be a lot more planets and moons than several.
A lot of best spots could be randomized in game after a while
A lot of best could be outside of UEE space and probably will be as usually thats how it works in sandbox games.

There are really more arguments against those claims being an issue than for it if you think about for a while.

Ps. I think the best counter argument is that CIG would be totally stupid if they would only relay on Citizens that started playing game at launch in their 10 years+ plans for this game.
Because the situation is the same as with people who will start playing months after game releases in comparison to those not whales that started at launch.

Include · Nov 29, 2017

KKRT said:
snip

You still are fixated on one aspect of my arguments while ignoring all the others!

You still ignore the fact that you cannot buy this claim with store credit, you still ignore the fact that we don't know how much in game money it will cost and how many hours does it take to achieve it, you still ignore that the game play and economy isn't fleshed out enough to warrant this kind of moves. We still know nothing of substance about the game play yet.

You are only arguing with me over the position and availability of the land and using it as a justification.

I never ignored that the game universe is planned to be huge, I never ignored that planets are big. However are you telling me that each spot of a planet or every planets and systems are equal? Do they all hold the same values? Are they all the same?

Do we have clone planets? Or cities?

So you think a value of a land in Hollywood is the same as in Ethiopia?

Say I want land A which is unique (unless you are assuming that all planets and lands are clones of each other) and another player wants land A as well, only one of us will be able to have it, who do you think it will? Me who needs to farm an unknown amount of time or someone who just buy this claim and can instantly get it?

Does it not give an advantage to that other player?

Unlike ships that you can earn eventually, land A will never be mine.

So yes, I don't think it's a good move to implement this, they were other options to generate money for the company, skins, clothes, hair styles... Etc. I have played MMOs, I have played games that have micro transactions and I can honestly say that they were other less damaging ways for CIG to earn money.

Staticneuron · Nov 29, 2017

Include said:
Outposts, hot-spots, big cities, trading posts, cargo posts, factories? Near jump points, near more secure and tightly controlled zone... Etc. Why does it have to be about mining specifically?

And yes I am aware about being able to earn it in game but you ignored my point on how much it will cost in game and how long it will take to earn it while others who bought it will already claim the spots I mentioned above.

You also ignored my point about being able to buy it right now only with new cash instead of what we already spent.

We don't know anything about how to economy will works or how to planets are designed either and what are the possible consequences of this in real game play situation. I wish they shared their vision before making this move that may affect the game play.

Then if you don't know and agree that we don't know, why make assumptions towards the negative?

Couple of things, you don't need a land claim to do anything in game, this is only for legal protection and rights in UEE space. Many things you point out may bot even be allowed by the UEE, such as setting up shop near big cities or trying to get spots near jumpoints or in tightly controlled zones. Scale, as pointed out before if every current backer purchased the largest claim they could and tried to claim daymar that would be less than half the surface of the moon. And that is a MOON. Not a planet.

UEE Space has 36 star systems and around 160 planets and that is excluding Sol and the moons/large asteroids of those systems. The likelihood of all the valuable spots being taken up as a concern is beyond minuscule.

Include said:
You still ignore the fact that you cannot buy this claim with store credit, you still ignore the fact that we don't know how much in game money it will cost and how many hours does it take to achieve it, you still ignore that the game play and economy isn't fleshed out enough to warrant this kind of moves. We still know nothing of substance about the game play yet.

Which makes complaining about it pure speculation and borderline pointless.

Include said:
I never ignored that the game universe is planned to be huge, I never ignored that planets are big. However are you telling me that each spot of a planet or every planets and systems are equal? Do they all hold the same values? Are they all the same?

How can you list all the possible way something can be valuable, use this example and try to discount scale and sheer size of UEE space? Do you realize you are not making any sense? What you're implying is that they can sell enough to make people run out of valuable spots to claim across all planets, moons and large asteroids in UEE space, despite the varying concept of value and thumbing nose at possibility of there being MORE valuable spots than players in the game.

EDIT: As stated by Tony Zurovec himself

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/16292-Q-A-Land-Claim-License/

Will I have an advantage over other players if I buy a claim license now?
No. Licenses can be bought for UEC in game and no one will be able to claim land before the mechanic is available in game for all. People that own claim licenses now, during the anniversary sale to support development, and people that earn the money in-game to buy one will be on equal footing assuming they have enough UEC, especially as there will be millions of locations for people to explore and claim within the Universe over the life time of the game.

Will players claiming the "best" plots of land on day one be an issue?
No. Due to the billions of square kilometres of available land over many planets and moons and of course as new Star Systems are introduced and explored, all players will have the ability to find and claim new "hot spots" throughout the lifetime of the game. Also, every player can have their own reason for what could be the 'best' piece of land, while some may judge a plot of land based on the type and quantity of natural resources that it contains, others might be looking for proximity to trade routes, and others could simply look for a quiet spot with a beautiful vista. This – combined with the fact that there's an enormous amount of real estate available – means that prospecting and the purchase of land are two pieces of a supply-and-demand equation governing how rapidly land of a distinct perceived value will come on the market.

Include · Nov 29, 2017

Staticneuron said:
Then if you don't know and agree that we don't know, why make assumptions towards the negative?

Couple of things, you don't need a land claim to do anything in game, this is only for legal protection and rights in UEE space. Many things you point out may bot even be allowed by the UEE, such as setting up shop near big cities or trying to get spots near jumpoints or in tightly controlled zones. Scale, as pointed out before if every current backer purchased the largest claim they could and tried to claim daymar that would be less than half the surface of the moon. And that is a MOON. Not a planet.

UEE Space has 36 star systems and around 160 planets and that is excluding Sol and the moons/large asteroids of those systems. The likelihood of all the valuable spots being taken up as a concern is beyond minuscule.

Which makes complaining about it pure speculation and borderline pointless.

How can you list all the possible way something can be valuable, use this example and try to discount scale and sheer size of UEE space? Do you realize you are not making any sense? What you're implying is that they can sell enough to make people run out of valuable spots to claim across all planets, moons and large asteroids in UEE space, despite the varying concept of value and thumbing nose at possibility of there being MORE valuable spots than players in the game.

So you are pointing out that I make assumptions and that I'm worried about nothing and yet you are doing the same, you are making assumptions while you know nothing as well.

The difference between us is that you gave your assumptions a positive spin while I gave a negative ones.

You choose to trust that somehow everything will work out fine, I do not. Point is you cannot prove me wrong and I cannot prove you wrong as well.

So don't dismiss another person argument without having any fact yourself.

And this the biggest problem, the game play isnt fleshed out enough to do something like this. How can CIG propose this when they didn't give us any details about the game play mechanics regarding owning a land what are the conditions, what are the implications... Etc. And thus my concerns.

KKRT · Nov 29, 2017

Include said:
Say I want land A which is unique (unless you are assuming that all planets and lands are clones of each other) and another player wants land A as well, only one of us will be able to have it, who do you think it will? Me who needs to farm an unknown amount of time or someone who just buy this claim and can instantly get it?

Staticneuron answered a lot of stuff already, but i wanted just answer to this one.
This is such an edge case within the scope of planets and moons that it wont happen much if any.
And additionally what about people who will start months after you and you will claim the spot they would want to take?
Or if for example CIG give out to everybody one claim certificate and you would have a spot that you would want to claim, but you for example couldnt login to the game or play the first day the 1.0 or beta that would not be reset anymore and somebody would claim your spot? It would still be not fair?

And again, its a big edge case in this universe and edge case thats completely theoretical right now, as we only have access to 3 moons in one solar system.

Ps. Its a social game, you always be able to buy stuff from other people you know :)

Staticneuron · Nov 29, 2017

Include said:
So you are pointing out that I make assumptions and that I'm worried about nothing and yet you are doing the same, you are making assumptions while you know nothing as well.

The difference between us is that you gave your assumptions a positive spin while I gave a negative ones.

You choose to trust that somehow everything will work out fine, I do not. Point is you cannot prove me wrong and I cannot prove you wrong as well.

So don't dismiss another person argument without having any fact yourself.

And this the biggest problem, the game play isnt fleshed out enough to do something like this. How can CIG propose this when they didn't give us any details about the game play mechanics regarding owning a land what are the conditions, what are the implications... Etc. And thus my concerns.

I am not speculating on a positive slant just pointing out that scale plays a big part in your concern. Let us bring this into real world terms. Lets say CiG was selling 4 or 8 acre plots. And you use the land value of United States as an example and I remind you about the entire PLANET. Using your previous reference, How many spots on this globe do you think is as valuable or even more valuable than Hollywood, California? You are pushing a narrative that is illogical. Period. You are insinuating that people who purchased will claim the most valuable lands or all possible land in UEE space before other players can buy claims of their own (assuming they want to because it isn't NEEDED) because prospecting is an issue before the claim, I doubt this would ever be a possibility. I understand the concern if the game as only going to be as large as current PTU (which is still large mind you), but at the same token for me that concern went away when I looked at the numbers. You can watch any lore of the system or use star map.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/starmap

I recommend spending some time there looking at UEE space, the scale of planets and moons, then responding here again on how much of a concern it is.

Include · Nov 29, 2017

KKRT said:
Staticneuron answered a lot of stuff already, but i wanted just answer to this one.
This is such an edge case within the scope of planets and moons that it wont happen much if any.
And additionally what about people who will start months after you and you will claim the spot they would want to take?
Or if for example CIG give out to everybody one claim certificate and you would have a spot that you would want to claim, but you for example couldnt login to the game or play the first day the 1.0 or beta that would not be reset anymore and somebody would claim your spot? It would still be not fair?

And again, its a big edge case in this universe and edge case thats completely theoretical right now, as we only have access to 3 moons in one solar system.

Ps. Its a social game, you always be able to buy stuff from other people you know :)

Who will equal somebody who played an MMO for a year and has hours over hours experience to someone who started fresh?

So if I trained to play a piano for years and someone just started out fresh it is unfair to him? First of all I worked for that experience and in real life nobody will put him in the same competition in the first place, you don't make a white belt karate fight a black belt and expect them to be equal.

So your example of unfairness is absolutely a non sense.

Secondly my own argument is if me and another player start on day one and we both are the same level, he will be able to have his land that I may have wanted, while I will not because I will have to farm for it for x amount of time and even then I will not have it because it has been claimed already by someone who paid real life money. How is it not an advantage?

o again there are a tons of random lands but still if I want land A in planet A, I would not be able to be on equal footing as a person starting the game as at the same time because I didn't buy the license. And again all lands aren't equal unless you are Implying each planet and system are clones of each other and each part of each planet is the same. In which case what's the point of having a big system, what's the point of even exploration if everything is the same.

Something that has no con and is acquired only by 1 person at the time is giving advantage. If all fighters in tekken are the same there would be no meta, if all ships are the same what's the point of buying anything else than an aurora, if all lands are the same why even care about buying anything right now? Why even offer it?

Bottom line, unless planets are clones, not all lands are equal, unless you buy a license now with new cash (not even money you put previously in your account) you cannot have a land you want on day 1. We don't know anything about game play and yet one of the game play was pit behind a pay wall.

For the rest I outlined my answers to you and the guy after you.

If you guys still have no issues with it, good for you. I have an issue, I have my own point of view and as someone who paid for this game like y'all did and is hoping for it to be great, I am entitled to my own worries and opinions.

I am hoping for an official statement about the game play implications and mechanics related to owning a land and how it's going to work out, before I can safety that it doesn't matter to me at all in the great schemes of things. Until then I'm going to remain concerned.

I think I fleshed out all my points in various posts. I'm done for now.

Dubbedinenglish · Nov 29, 2017

Have to agree that the land sale is exploitative at best. If it's something they wanted to give to concierge or OG backers, then cool it's a nice perk. Them selling it, for only new money that can't be repurposed is pretty poor. Personally consider it more exploitative than the ship weapon store.

KKRT · Nov 29, 2017

Include said:
Who will equal somebody who played an MMO for a year and has hours over hours experience to someone who started fresh?

So if I trained to play a piano for years and someone just started out fresh it is unfair to him? First of all I worked for that experience and in real life nobody will put him in the same competition in the first place, you don't make a white belt karate fight a black belt and expect them to be equal.

So your example of unfairness is absolutely a non sense.

The thing is that from mechanical perspective both situations are the same.
Just one is fair to you in comparison to other, but the problem remains the same.
And again, we are talking about edge case scenario in context of this game.
If the edge case will be real then yes, it is somehow a concern for one point of time, of launch of SC, but i dont think they will ever address something like this.
Just try to imagine this situation, this edge case can only happen, when two players, want the same tile (where there will be probably like 500 million tiles to choose from), one has claim right, the other doesnt at exactly the start of beta or 1.0 version.
I mean it could happen to pair of people or maybe if lighting strikes to two pairs, but from CIG development perspective, its a meaningless event, especially when maybe one of the party doesnt care that much about space and can sell it off if communicated properly.

Ps. I think the bigger problem CIG has is the PR one, as it seems that people do not understand the scale and just are slightly disgusted by this. I think from PR standpoint, they should offer one claim right to every citizen and if anybody needs more, they can buy more.
This way they will fix everything, PR included.

Dyno · Nov 29, 2017

Any news on a 3.0 public release yet?

Staticneuron · Nov 29, 2017

I think there will always be that discrepancy between tenured player and people just starting out. That is just the nature of MMO's. I am playing one now which I am 2 years late to party. Doesn't make things less fun it shows me goals I can work towards and things I can ignore.

You mention value, but you forget that one needs to prospect (or reach planet) of that. To prospect and find most valuable day in UEE space day one... is most likely not going to happen. Land claim is very specific to getting UEE protection. Doesn't stop people from mining on land, building outposts or any other behavior and I am sure most people will opt out of it or simply choose not to stake claim within UEE space. The claim of cloned planets and value again is ignoring scale. Even if the population of backers double chances of them prospecting valuable land on all 167+ planets or even reaching them is unlikely. The plots are 4 Km x 4 Km or 8 Km x 8 Km. No one is going to take up an entire planet with those numbers.

So again, whether value is in resources, farming, science, travel, trade or simply because you like the view, there is no way things are going to run out or the concept of the "best" would be found.

Ryousuke · Nov 29, 2017

Dyno said:
Any news on a 3.0 public release yet?

Not yet no. A new build just released today for PTU. They clearly have to fix more issues before releasing it to more people.

Al3x1s · Nov 29, 2017

They keep stressing every time how you will be able to get everything by just playing the game yet people keep acting like this is the most p2w game ever. It's not even out. If they wanted the p2w crowd money over the support of space sim lovers at large who have wanted such a game forever they would stress the advantages you get when you pay for anything with real money, not minimize them every chance they get. At least as of now p2w clearly isn't the plan and people with the p2w mindset aren't the buyers of it all either as they're buying things that as far as they can know are nearly the opposite with just complimentary benefits at best.

Dyno · Nov 29, 2017

Ryousuke said:
Not yet no. A new build just released today for PTU. They clearly have to fix more issues before releasing it to more people.

Fair enough. Was hoping to get in before the holidays but that's not looking likely since I only have a couple more weeks with my PC I guess. Will be a good start to next year at least.

Staticneuron · Nov 29, 2017

Al3x1s said:
They keep stressing every time how you will be able to get everything by just playing the game yet people keep acting like this is the most p2w game ever. It's not even out. If they wanted the p2w crowd money over the support of space sim lovers at large who have wanted such a game forever they would stress the advantages you get when you pay for anything with real money, not minimize them every chance they get.

It is because of confirmation bias. People who loathe the concept of spending real money on virtual items will jump at this. Even though it is clearly stated to fund game and not needed to play game. There were packages as low as $25. And you could get the game and not spend another dime if you were not interested. But here is where things get interesting. People have their own lines on what is acceptable and what isn't.

People think more expensive ships are pay to win without understanding the design behind the game. They are normally multicrew or somtimes extremely specialized. Some backers feel that the mechanics sales should come later after they are implemented forgetting these sales are supposed to stop after game goes into beta. People getting land claims is as much as a jump of people getting a hornet, or other high end ship as soon as game launches. The game can be competitive but it is shaping up to be more about player against universe. But people seem to feel bitter when they think someone else is going to have an edge on them in any way. These feelings will persist until CiG stop offering pledge packages.

Boss · Nov 29, 2017

Include said:
....

You can just literally watch the 20-30 minute segment they did with the director of the game who addressed your "game play implications and mechanics related to owning a land"

And you're right, planets and moons won't be clones. That being said 8x8KM is something like one pixel of their moon right now. The idea of you not being able to find;

1. Highly identical land to the one you wanted to purchase (Please go on Google Maps or on Daymar right now and find me a 8x8 km lot directly next to another one that looks distinctly different.)
2. Better land by performing more deep scanning and research on the planet with having more time to claim the land.
3. Somebody buying land on Day 1 won't have good land, you need to research, scan, inspect. This isn't something like you get a guide book and see that LOT 1220532 has 100% full mineral deposits from your ship. You need to physically explore, scan, and find good locations, someone rushing out on Day 1 to plant his flag is not going to end up with the same quality of land as someone on Day 300 who has properly researched the whole planet and knows exactly where the best locations are.
4. The purpose of selling ships (and now land claims) is to give people who don't have time to spend in a game, and just want to enjoy it for what it is, the ability to be on equal footing with people who want to play daily for months on end. That doesn't mean they're going to be better than the game at you, you still need to have the skills necessary at whatever profession you want to have to be good at the game. Someone with a Hull E who doesn't know how to fly or plan trade routes, won't make as much money in game as someone starting out with a Hull A and moving up by needing to know exactly how to fly the best routes, and save on costs. The same goes with land claims, someone just buying land somewhere won't translate him to having the best land nor making the most money if they don't know how to play the game or put the necessary time to refine their skills as someone else.
5. There is no winning in Star Citizen, it's a sandbox.

Your concerns are borderline pointless since they've addressed most of them right from the start. Is this a good look for Star Citizen? No, I really wish they had their priorities elsewhere right now. Is this some predatory, pay to win scam? No, it's clearly not. I wish there would be more balanced discussion between the doom and gloom.

Landford · Nov 29, 2017

I bought this game years and years ago, I think. I still have my login credentials and whatnot, and played around in the hangar portion when it launched. How can I know if I can download this 3.0 update?

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