Gran Turismo SPORT | OT | Putting it all on the line

riveria said:

Well the main reason the inside view is so narrow is because it uses an angle view more similar to the human eye. The main advantage of this is that judging distances is easier. It's a thing GT has since the start of the series, and it's the main reason I use it. Using a wider angle would make me stop using it.
A thing they can do and should, is to let us choose at least from two or three type of camera like the older titles. Or add more aids to make up with the limits of this view, like adding the option to use the bumper cam mirror and make the radar more visible.
I'll never understand why the best way to play a racing game must be the more sacrificed, like it's something for hardcore players only. It should be the contrary.

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I don't know, I have more problem judging speed in this game than distance.

But the state of the cockpit view in this game is sort of emblematic of the disconnect in GTS's overall design. Its focus is Sport, on simulating real racing conditions to possibly become a licensed FIA driver, yet the view that simulates real driving the most is the least suited for online play. Kaz wanted Sport to be the focus, yet the Scapes mode has way more engineering time put into into it than showing player race histories and stats. They built a fairly sophisticated SR system, and yet other than two throwaway videos there's absolutely no education about proper rules and techniques for good racing. Now they're putting in a bunch of SP content, which I understand is probably to try to get GT players back, but it leaves me with a view that GTS is very unfocused. There's a bunch of features that are nice-to-haves, but the Sport mode itself is very underdeveloped.

Obviously I still really like what's there, but man...I'd love to get a view inside the development of this game.

Yeah cockpit looks the coolest, and I get the most immersed but I always find myself going back to just having the open road view with mostly everything off.

I don't get how you can drive with such a limited view of the track? It's too squished in for me. Maybe with more practice I'll try it out again, but I'm just trying to get the hang of shifting.

Manual is better long term right guys?

riveria said:

I was playing around with the Mazda Roadster (for me she'll ever be the MX-5) and she's incredibly fun to drive. I think it's the best rendition of the car since forever. I'm a little worried about how the update changed her. I hope they didn't touched much.

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riveria said:

Just an update on this.
I've just tried again the little Mazda and wow she's changed a lot. The change from neutral to oversteer is now much more progressive and readable. The car now is easy to drive in power oversteer braking much less than what I was used. The car is so much easy to drive that I gained 28 seconds on the one-lap-trip at the nordschleife, from a 10:26 done yesterday, first try but being cautious and doing no errors, to the 9:58 of today, first try too and going out in the grass in the third sector. In fact to me the improvement seems almost too good, so much that I feel something could be very wrong here, but my only experience with FRs are videogames so I don't know what to think.

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Another update: with the wheel I shaved another 18 seconds. Still first attempt. 9:40 it's a time I could do with the Toyota GT86, an N200. I got all adrenalinic for a time attack session. I can't remember if a thing like this has ever happened to me. It feels great.

BadWolf said:

So I guess there is no point in spending money on a car for now then? I'll keep that GTR in mind just in case though.

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Yeah don't bother buying any cars just yet. As you progress through the Campaign they'll throw prize cars at you, and if you need a Gr.4 or Gr.3 car, you can get loaner ones for free if you sign up with a manufacturer in the manufacturers cup (even if you don't intend to race).

Omnistalgic said:

Yeah cockpit looks the coolest, and I get the most immersed but I always find myself going back to just having the open road view with mostly everything off.

I don't get how you can drive with such a limited view of the track? It's too squished in for me. Maybe with more practice I'll try it out again, but I'm just trying to get the hang of shifting.

Manual is better long term right guys?

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I find I have more spatial perception and can feel the slip of the car a bit better with cockpit, but yeah the reduced view is tough. I stick with it though.

I use manual for many reasons and wouldn't go back to auto, but Shannow apparently uses auto and he's very fast, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Omnistalgic said:

Yeah cockpit looks the coolest, and I get the most immersed but I always find myself going back to just having the open road view with mostly everything off.

I don't get how you can drive with such a limited view of the track? It's too squished in for me. Maybe with more practice I'll try it out again, but I'm just trying to get the hang of shifting.

Manual is better long term right guys?

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Yes actual race cars don't have visibility as a top priority for the driver. Using the cockpit view and a manual transmission is basically hard mode (with other assists off). And I love it that way.

Although, I recently discovered that I had the ABS assist on. Turning that off... Turns on the SoulsBorne mode!

Lol well I just got my wheel yesterday and while I'm already getting golds again, I think I'll keep on some of the assist for now.

Starting to get the hang of it. Seems to really benefit you once you memorize your cars speeds and know what each gear is in term of max speed.

Wish they would let you turn off the rear view mirror in bumper cam view.

I'm actually quicker in cockpit view. lol

eyeball_kid said:

Hood cam is closer to a driver's view. Bumper cam is about two feet off the ground and at the front of the car. It gives you an unrealistic perspective of the road which allows you to judge turns more precisely than you could from inside a car. I think bumper cam and chase cam both provide an unfair amount of information and I don't understand why they exist in an online game focused on racing on equal terms. They would both be done away with in Sport races if I had my way. At least with the chase cam there's some downsides in terms of car control to offset the fact that people can see all the cars around them, but the bumper cam basically has no downsides and also has the best instrument configuration.

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Bumper cam does have a big issue and that's visibility when slipstreaming or just being close to the car ahead - often I end up stepping out of line just so I can see where my braking point is. It's actually less of an issue in this game than it was in Driveclub as the slipstream is more realistic in GT so nowhere near as strong. So yes bumper cam in great for a sense of speed and spotting apexes but can put you at a disadvantage when in a pack or close proximity to the car ahead.

Cockpit view will never be close to "real" (full peripheral vision, saccades and neck movement) in a 16:9 area unless you are projecting it in an imense screen or compositing multiple cameras.
So when you are designing a view, thinking about ergonomics and view projection (people have screens of varying sizes, resolution and sit at different distances and angles), you end up with that standard cockpit view you'll see in many games, they sacrifice horizontal information to keep its projection "correct".
FOV adjustments may be fun and all, but they'll just distort and change depth perception.

Normal view (bumper cam) is the cockpit view (seating position varies a bit) with the car frame invisible.

Im liking the Sports races with some pit strategy now. Hopefully one day we'll be able to choose tire strategy too.

Man, the VR mode feels like it could be completely renovated if they poured some money into it. It could have been another PSVR killer app but it feels so lightweight in comparison to everything else.

Being a VR photographer would be epic, having more than just 1v1s should be standard, and the showroom - while neat - is severely lacking. Can't open doors. Can't even go inside the car?!

Took this while still in VR:

mango. said:

Cockpit view will never be close to "real" (full peripheral vision, saccades and neck movement) in a 16:9 area unless you are projecting it in an imense screen or compositing multiple cameras.
So when you are designing a view, thinking about ergonomics and view projection (people have screens of varying sizes, resolution and sit at different distances and angles), you end up with that standard cockpit view you'll see in many games, they sacrifice horizontal information to keep its projection "correct".
FOV adjustments may be fun and all, but they'll just distort and change depth perception.

Normal view (bumper cam) is the cockpit view (seating position varies a bit) with the car frame invisible.

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I switched to cockpit view permanently with GT5 (and only used Premium cars except where I was forced not to). There's a definite penalty in terms of visibility - bumper cam gives you even more visibility than a human would have, because it deletes the vehicle around you, and chase cam gives you even more visibility again because you can see things that are behind you - but I accept that trade off, because I find the cockpit view to be way more immersive, and my enjoyment is more important to me than my performance.

I use radar on the mini-display to try and recover some of that peripheral awareness; it makes it tough, and there are occasionally situations where I swap paint accidentally, simply because I can't see an opponent who has suddenly appeared (radar has very short range) - but from watching videos posted in here, I know that it happens when using other views as well. I accept that as part and parcel of racing in a video game context as opposed to in real life.

I'm not bothered by what views other people use, just thought I'd share the reasons why I personally prefer cockpit view, despite the handicap it brings with it.

Hey I would love to have some more friends on PSN playing this games so I can see just how terrible I really am.
Feel free to add me, just mention the forum. Also up for any community stuff if it happens in the future.

Quote for my PSN. (Mostly just testing this to see if I can do it right lol)

Just got this game. Discount on the CE yesterday at Best Buy. The graphics are sick. The opening cinema, the music, the total respect for cars and racing these guys have. Much respect.

I redeemed the CE code and was instantly bumped up to level 5 before doing a thing. I didn't care for that. But I like the million dollars they gave me. Iol

DHC-Shannow said:

Bumper cam does have a big issue and that's visibility when slipstreaming or just being close to the car ahead - often I end up stepping out of line just so I can see where my braking point is. It's actually less of an issue in this game than it was in Driveclub as the slipstream is more realistic in GT so nowhere near as strong. So yes bumper cam in great for a sense of speed and spotting apexes but can put you at a disadvantage when in a pack or close proximity to the car ahead.

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I have breaking point visibility issues in cockpit view as well, but yeah I guess it's worse if you're right on someone's tail in bumper cam. Usually I just move out from behind someone so I don't risk rear-ending them. I'm thinking of maybe turning off the brake point cones because I rely too much on them instead of finding visual track markers -- too often someone crashes into the cones in Sport races and I end up overshooting a turn.

Had a great race in Gr.3 at Brands Hatch in my matte luminous orange Sega branded Beetle! Didn't realise it had fuel consumption so dashed into the pits in a panic on lap 4. Was in 2nd but ended finishing 4th. Could maybe have done better managing my fuel from lap 1 rather than 5.

I have one issue with this game, which is turning off player names in the menu only seems to apply to AI cars. So in every online race, and even more egregiously in every replay from an online race, I have floating names above every car. Really ruins the immersion. Having a glance at the placing list on the left hand side is all I need to know, I'd love to be able to hide these names in online race. Please PD!

This is awesome. Someone on GTPlanet made a website that updates with the latest daily Sport races. It's apparently manually updated so I don't know how accurate or timely it will be, but pretty cool. It even updates the next race timings. This is the kind of thing PD should be doing themselves, it's weird that daily race info isn't available on the GTS site. Their whole news section feels like a bunch of press releases from a corporation.

Anyway, this is cool: http://gtsportraces.com

eyeball_kid said:

Hood cam is closer to a driver's view. Bumper cam is about two feet off the ground and at the front of the car. It gives you an unrealistic perspective of the road which allows you to judge turns more precisely than you could from inside a car. I think bumper cam and chase cam both provide an unfair amount of information and I don't understand why they exist in an online game focused on racing on equal terms. They would both be done away with in Sport races if I had my way. At least with the chase cam there's some downsides in terms of car control to offset the fact that people can see all the cars around them, but the bumper cam basically has no downsides and also has the best instrument configuration.

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It's not, and never has been in any Gran Turismo game.

mango. said:

Cockpit view will never be close to "real" (full peripheral vision, saccades and neck movement) in a 16:9 area unless you are projecting it in an imense screen or compositing multiple cameras.

So when you are designing a view, thinking about ergonomics and view projection (people have screens of varying sizes, resolution and sit at different distances and angles), you end up with that standard cockpit view you'll see in many games, they sacrifice horizontal information to keep its projection "correct".

FOV adjustments may be fun and all, but they'll just distort and change depth perception.

Normal view (bumper cam) is the cockpit view (seating position varies a bit) with the car frame invisible.

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Yup. Cockpit view is like trying to drive a car looking through the wrong end of a set of binoculars.

Just driven the base GT-R around the Nordschleife and wow.. it's more driveable than I remember, but really seat of the pants. Always felt like in the past you'd have tons of understeer but now the thing positively dives into the corners.. The replay looked more visceral and real as well. Just so much fun. Also the sound in the replays is sublime. It's reminding me of the Top Gear "Reasonably Priced Car" time trials. Car sliding about, clearly seeing the weight shifting around... just fucking beautiful.

I love this game more and more. If PD just build and build on this game and don't make any massive changes in a negative way... YES.

How great is the FF on Nürburgring, and I'm using the DS4.

I like bumper view the best because it always has less soft spots than all the other views that aren't
Trail cam

Finished the beginner driving school missions with all gold, yay.

Tried playing with motion steering and my mind was full fuck. My arms would clumsily steer while my left thumb wouldn't stop trying to steer with the left stick at the same time lol.

endlessflood said:

Yeah don't bother buying any cars just yet. As you progress through the Campaign they'll throw prize cars at you, and if you need a Gr.4 or Gr.3 car, you can get loaner ones for free if you sign up with a manufacturer in the manufacturers cup (even if you don't intend to race).

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Thanks for the tips, will be hoarding my monies then.

After reading through the impressions here, seeing the offline update & GT League, seeing older JDM cars get added next month with even more to come after... I have officially purchased Gran Turismo Sport.

I'm liking the way Polyphony is building on this one, slowly but surely, and it gives me confidence I'll enjoy it as much if not more than Gran Turismo 5. Can't wait to get back into the lobby drifting and fun races I had during the beta.

I just raced the Kyoto daily race. Went in without qualifying time and started last. I gained 5 positions during race finishing 9th. In after race image of my driver and car,it said "Congratulations, your place in now 5" or something similar. What does that mean? My DR and SR remained C/C and my finishing standing indeed was 9.

Skitso said:

I just raced the Kyoto daily race. Went in without qualifying time and started last. I gained 5 positions during race finishing 9th. In after race image of my driver and car,it said "Congratulations, your place in now 5" or something similar. What does that mean? My DR and SR remained C/C and my finishing standing indeed was 9.

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This happens when other drivers accumulate penalties. So you could technically finish 9th, but if other drivers hve enough time penalties it'll drop them down significantly and your position will rise. It's why even if you're far back you should keep driving hard because those in front of you may have driven dirty in order to get into that position or maintain it.

flipswitch said:

How great is the FF on Nürburgring, and I'm using the DS4.

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The FF in this game is bad, I'd almost say it's really bad. I run the Thrustmaster T150 and tried the PCars2 Demo with it and I way blown away by the FF effects. Almost exclusively playing GT Sport for a couple of weeks, I almost forgot what kind of cool effects my wheel was capable of.

I'd love to see some FF impovements from PD down the line. There definitly is a lot of room for improvements.

SolidSnakex said:

This happens when other drivers accumulate penalties. So you could technically finish 9th, but if other drivers hve enough time penalties it'll drop them down significantly and your position will rise. It's why even if you're far back you should keep driving hard because those in front of you may have driven dirty in order to get into that position or maintain it.

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Yeah, but those penalties (and postitions after said penalties are counted) should be shown in the final standings chart, right? In this race, no one had remaining time penaltes at the end and as I said, my final position was 9th in the final chart. This was just a text in the "trophy image" where it shows a blue up arrow and tells how many positions I gained (5) which is correct as I started 14th. Strange...?

Skitso said:

Yeah, but those penalties (and postitions after said penalties are counted) should be shown in the final standings chart, right? In this race, no one had remaining time penaltes at the end and as I said, my final position was 9th in the final chart. This was just a text in the "trophy image" where it shows a blue up arrow and tells how many positions I gained (5) which is correct as I started 14th. Strange...?

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Well your DR has a progress bar, maybe it just means that has risen by 5 points - I saw a 3 point gain and Top Citroen Driver on my results screen in the manufacturer race.

matimeo said:

Hey I would love to have some more friends on PSN playing this games so I can see just how terrible I really am.
Feel free to add me, just mention the forum. Also up for any community stuff if it happens in the future.

Quote for my PSN. (Mostly just testing this to see if I can do it right lol)

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Worked for me!

Sent. :)

New Dailies

Kyoto Yamagiwa -- Single Make (Atenza) -- 3 laps
Blue Moon Speedway -- Gr.3 (Garage) -- 10 laps
Dragon Trail -- Gr.4 (Garage) -- 10 laps -- fuel / tire wear

I'm getting tired of these dailies where only one race is appealing enough to enter.

I wish they would allow other cars from the N-class instead of always making them single make races.

I'm glad the Gr.3 and Gr.4 classes are returning so often though, I really like those.

sponk said:

The FF in this game is bad, I'd almost say it's really bad. I run the Thrustmaster T150 and tried the PCars2 Demo with it and I way blown away by the FF effects. Almost exclusively playing GT Sport for a couple of weeks, I almost forgot what kind of cool effects my wheel was capable of.

I'd love to see some FF impovements from PD down the line. There definitly is a lot of room for improvements.

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As long as it's not something silly like feeling the rear wheels slipping through the front wheels Some reason many people think that is somehow more realistic or better ffb

Bumper cam all the way...

Just raced the Dragon Trail daily with the 458 Gr.4. This car is so different now, I was really misjudging turns, especially that damn chicane. I have no idea why PD increased the BoP weight on the 458, it already had a hard time being competitive.

I feel that removing the penalties in the campaign mode in the latest patch was a little rushed, some lessons and challenges still warn about them in the description. This can create some confusion (and worse times if someone is very careful about driving clean).

Is there any intention to create an Era Racing League? Also, is there a list of PSN IDs to add to our friends list?

BradleyLove said:

Is there any intention to create an Era Racing League? Also, is there a list of PSN IDs to add to our friends list?

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First question: Yes, but it still needs to be co-ordinated.
Second question: I think so... I don't know where it is though.

xrnzaaas said:

I feel that removing the penalties in the campaign mode in the latest patch was a little rushed, some lessons and challenges still warn about them in the description. This can create some confusion (and worse times if someone is very careful about driving clean).

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I don't think they are completely removed, but just not as strict. I hit an orange cone and nothing happened, then I drove on the grass for a couple of seconds and got a penalty

explain to me the magic of brake balance and how i can use it to set faster times.

bud said:

explain to me the magic of brake balance and how i can use it to set faster times.

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Here is the basic concept copied from the iRacing wiki:

Increasing Front bias: Shown as a larger number, increasing brake bias to the front will put more braking force into the front tires. This will stabilize the car in braking zones and increase understeer at corner entry. The compromise is that with too much front bias the rear tires are being under‐utilized and overall braking efficiency will suffer. This can also cause rapid front tire wear due to front tire lockup, especially of the inside tire which is the first to lock up.

Reducing Front bias: This puts more braking on the rear tires, which, within limits, improves braking efficiency. Too much rear brake bias, though, hurts performance in two ways. First, it reduces overall braking efficiency. More seriously, too much rear brake bias, particularly if the driver is not braking in a straight line or has weak footwork on downshifts, can cause the rear tires to lock up, which puts the car in a dynamically unstable condition that can easily result in loss of vehicle control. Note that with a moderate amount of rear‐brake bias, the car will have a tendency to rotate (OVERsteer) at corner entry upon brake release.

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More info here: http://iracing.wikidot.com/components:brake-bias

I generally set mine to front 2/3 but I noticed most of the people with higher times have theirs set to rear 5. I'm guessing so they can utilize oversteer more and will be using ABS to stop locking up.

hmm, i have abs set to weak and everything else off.

you reckon i should try your settings?

eyeball_kid said:

Just raced the Dragon Trail daily with the 458 Gr.4. This car is so different now, I was really misjudging turns, especially that damn chicane. I have no idea why PD increased the BoP weight on the 458, it already had a hard time being competitive.

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Does a 1% change in the weight reduction ratio really give that big a difference to the car's driving ability? Are you sure it's not just a placebo effect?

It changed from 108% > 107% for that car, but I'm not at the game right now so I can't check what that change means in actual kilograms.

Question -
once I will finish driving school and can do the dailies - can I do them alone, or it is multiplayer focused racing?

i've set my personal record on dragon trail with the viper.

how the hell are meganes so fast?

red731 said:

Question -
once I will finish driving school and can do the dailies - can I do them alone, or it is multiplayer focused racing?

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Dailies are multiplayer only. You can set qualifying times by yourself if your into time trialing but I don't see there being much point in doing so if you're not going to participate in the races themselves.

Anything in the sport mode section of the menu is multiplayer focused.

Gotcha.
Thanks man.

First game in a long time where my wife was itching to play as much as me as soon as she got home. The driving is sooooo good, and honestly before my T150 came, I wasn't even playing the game properly I feel, it adds so much more steering with a wheel it feels more like a requirement than an option. I've heard some horror stories about Thrustmaster so I hope this one at least last me for the rest of the gen.

bud said:

hmm, i have abs set to weak and everything else off.

you reckon i should try your settings?

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Just do a few laps and try a variety and see what feels good. Then try to do some fast laps with the ones that feel best and see what gets you better results. What you like will also vary by car, I use a rear bias on the GTR (and all commercial cars under n600) as I am much faster with that having understeer, but generally like to use the unbalance caused by a front bais to shift the car's weight through the corner to compensate for understeer but that might just be a hangover from Dirt Rally.