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Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,910
I never said Nan was in the spider ep.

Best case, it's a missed opportunity for more story telling. She's given Yaz the watch, says we'll talk about it when you're older, then sees Yaz's hands have the design on them. This is all a great setup for her to wink and say, "Thank you for being there." or something to indicate she knows, and obviously she's been keeping that secret. It's a perfect time to add some story there. A missed opportunity.

You said you didn't understand how she didn't recognize the group in her kitchen as the group who attended her wedding. She's never seen them in the present.

And for what it's worth I much prefer how the story panned out as opposed to some wink wink "she knows" thing at the end. This was all about her story, her life and the secret pain she's had to hide her life. In the end, Yaz lets Nan "keep" the story instead of having to tell it. She knows how painful it was to her. Much like how in Rosa they never had Rosa involved in any time travel hijinks it would have done the emotion of the story a disservice.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
That can be written around. This is fantasy, not logic. I just think it was missed opportunity for more storytelling.
I never said Nan was in the spider ep.

Best case, it's a missed opportunity for more story telling. She's given Yaz the watch, says we'll talk about it when you're older, then sees Yaz's hands have the design on them. This is all a great setup for her to wink and say, "Thank you for being there." or something to indicate she knows, and obviously she's been keeping that secret. It's a perfect time to add some story there. A missed opportunity.

No, that's awful storytelling. That works if the event was a happy one, one where there is a bonding moment. Why would she wink and nod for such a tragic event like the death of her first husband? If anything, the ending is good because they don't lean into the time traveling aspect too much and just allow Nan to tell Yaz the story when she's ready, not because of dumb time travel shenanigans.
 

BrokenFiction

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,317
ATL
No, that's awful storytelling. That works if the event was a happy one, one where there is a bonding moment. Why would she wink and nod for such a tragic event like the death of her first husband? If anything, the ending is good because they don't lean into the time traveling aspect too much and just allow Nan to tell Yaz the story when she's ready, not because of dumb time travel shenanigans.

I don't intend it to be a wink and a nod, nor a washing of the tragic event. Extra time in the episode could have made this really memorable. Although I will concede if they do it in a future episode I'm cool with.
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,910
No way is Graham going to be a companion in Series 12 despite the fact i really like him (i would be surprised if the Season Finale wasn't his exit)

I agree. I read that he has some talk show deal.

I fully expect him to sacrifice himself for the team or Ryan specifically-finally getting a fistbump. Then right before he dies, the aliens that pay tribute to the dying will show up for him out of nowhere.
 

TheGamingNewsGuy

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 5, 2017
31,459
I agree. I read that he has some talk show deal.

I fully expect him to sacrifice himself for the team or Ryan specifically-finally getting a fistbump. Then right before he dies, the aliens that pay tribute to the dying will show up for him out of nowhere.
Yeah that's my bet. I think Yaz/Ryan will stay on till Series 12 which i am very mixed on because neither have really impressed me
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,548
I agree. I read that he has some talk show deal.

I fully expect him to sacrifice himself for the team or Ryan specifically-finally getting a fistbump. Then right before he dies, the aliens that pay tribute to the dying will show up for him out of nowhere.

The original scuttlebutt when Walsh was cast was that he wouldn't even be a full-time companion this season, so I'm honestly surprised Graham has lived this long already.
 

Foltzie

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,783
I'm loving the historical episodes. They are doing a masterful job of telling a story around the history in a way that's accessible.
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
There's no need any more. The Doctor-lite episodes existed because as of Series 2 (2006), the BBC added one more episode to the production schedule (Christmas), but only two weeks of extra filming when an episode takes on average 4-5 weeks. So, basically, the idea was... while Love & Monsters was being made, it was 'double banked' with The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit, meaning there were two units out filming at the same time for two different episodes. This basically let them condense the schedule enough to squeeze an extra episode in.

It's really obvious in Series 2 (Love & Monsters) and Series 3 (Blink), but then they get clever about it... for series 4 they obviously split the Doctor and Donna up for Midnight & Turn Left, so those two were double-banked together. Series 5 didn't need one because the Christmas special attached was produced by the previous production crew, but then for Series 6 they repeated the S4 trick with The Girl Who Waited (which basically only has Smith on the TARDIS set - one day of shooting - it's really an Amy/Rory episode) and Closing Time... though they're structured in such a way that it feels less obvious than with Series 4.

Anyway, we haven't had a need for one since, sadly. Series 7 didn't need one because it was split across two years, allowing for the extra filming time... (one thing that's a slight missed opportunity is Moffat said had he had the need for another double-bank scenario he would've done a 'stand alone' River story, and while I was bloody sick of that character that could've been very interesting.) Capaldi's era shrank the schedule to 12 episodes, making for 13 total as opposed to 14. There's no need now it's only a 10-episode series... unless they want to do it for artistic reasons, but I can't see that - Whittaker is paid for, so they'll use her. Shame, really - the current crew might blossom in new ways without her, given how crowded it is and how often they feel squeezed out of episodes atm.
Wasn't there an episode with Clara and Rigsy where The Doctor was stuck in a miniature TARDIS for the majority of the episode?
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,548
Wasn't there an episode with Clara and Rigsy where The Doctor was stuck in a miniature TARDIS for the majority of the episode?

Flatline wasn't really a Doctor-lite episode as much as it was a Clara-heavy episode. Twelve was still in pretty much the whole episode, he was just stuck in the TARDIS.
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,910
You guys are forgetting one of the best companions.

latest
 

EvilRedEye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
747
While we're talking Big Finish, they've announced Charley Pollard is coming back to the Eighth Doctor storyline in Ravenous 3.
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,615
Best companions IMO by far are Clara and Rose and the worst are Bill and Nardole, which makes S10 a difficult watch

I would have really liked if Shonna from Last Christmas had returned
 

zooj

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
858
Ames, IA
I really liked and appreciated this episode, it reminded me a bit of Father's Day from series 1, but it's less about changing history, and more about preserving it this time.

The twist with the aliens was interesting, though I can't help but wonder if the episode really needed them. They seemed like a reason to get the Doctor and team to stick around for a while longer.

But as for the historical elements, I really felt like I learned something this episode, which I haven't been able to say that about Doctor Who since, I'm not sure, but definitely many years. I didn't really learn about the Partition of India in school, so I appreciate this episode for bringing up a dark chapter of human history that I hadn't known about.
 

Orion

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,768
"My favorite granddaughter." Poor Yaz's sister lol.

I'm glad there was an explanation for how the Doctor was able to outrun the teleporting aliens. Turned out they were just too nice to kill her.

But as for the historical elements, I really felt like I learned something this episode, which I haven't been able to say that about Doctor Who since, I'm not sure, but definitely many years. I didn't really learn about the Partition of India in school, so I appreciate this episode for bringing up a dark chapter of human history that I hadn't known about.

Same. I don't remember ever learning much about it. Feels nice to watch time traveling alien adventures and get a bit of education at the same time. :p
 

lexony

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,518
I do like the new doctor and the fact that they adress topics like racism or historical events which dosen't know everyone. But I think the series takes itself a little bit to serious. They have much more dialogue and "drama" now (obviously, there are more Characters).
But it's probably to early to judge. So I will wait and see.
 
Oct 25, 2017
644
This was the best episode yet of the new series. I hope they can keep it going momentum wise. I'm glad they seem to have dropped any big arc for the season. Maybe we will get back to that Lonely Child thing eventually. The preview for nexts weeks ep felt very RTD era to me.
 

ibyea

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,163
Demons of Punjab is the best episode of the series yet. This is a legit emotional episode and I am glad they pulled no punches in terms of the massive scope of tragedy.

The next 3 episodes are from guests writers and so far the two guest writers nailed it. I hope they can keep the momentum going.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,435
I didn't react the way many of you did to this and I think it's on account of me not caring about one singular character in this series. I'm just not having fun at all. Great ideas but the show needs to be fun.

This season , for me, is even worse than Capaldi's first.

I'll see how things are faring next year.
 

BouncyFrag

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,772
This is clearly the best episode to me. I really liked the performance of Nan's fiancé and then husband. This is random, but I started to focus on Jaz's eyebrows and she uses them effectively. Now we all know, in terms of eybrows, she's going against a legend.
Doctor-Who-Peter-Capaldi-Twelfth.jpg

I'm hoping we get a Tardis episode sometime.
 
Oct 25, 2017
644
I also hope we get a Tardis episode. For me that could be an into the Tardis episode, a bottle ep set in the control room of the Tardis, an episode where the Tardis gets anthropomorphized again, or just any episode any all that touches on the Doctor's relationship with the ole gal.
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,725
England
Ratings for this week are in. Here's a recap of the series so far (overnights - each episode rises by about a million and a half, give or take, for timeshift)...

  1. 8.2m
  2. 7.11m
  3. 6.39m
  4. 6.43m
  5. 6.12m
  6. 5.77m
I wonder where we're going to land now. The new Doctor (and female Doctor) sheen is wearing off for casuals now, so a chunk of the audience is leaving, but where will it land? If it can maintain the numbers from week 4-6 it'll be above the Capaldi era and above all of the Smith era except Series 5 (when averaged out), but below all of the Eccleston/Tennant stuff.
 
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CD_93

Member
Dec 12, 2017
2,988
Lancashire, United Kingdom
Ratings for this week are in. Here's a recap of the series so far...

  1. 10.54m
  2. 7.11m
  3. 6.39m
  4. 6.43m
  5. 6.12m
  6. 5.77m
I wonder where we're going to land now. The new Doctor (and female Doctor) sheen is wearing off for casuals now, so a chunk of the audience is leaving, but where will it land? If it can maintain the numbers from week 4-6 it'll be above the Capaldi era and above all of the Smith era except Series 5 (when averaged out), but below all of the Eccleston/Tennant stuff.

You've mixed final ratings with overnights there. Though as you say on overnights alone it's still outperforming the last series by around 2m.

2Iir2lQ.jpg


We edited around eachother there :D
 
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APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,725
England
You've mixed final ratings with overnights there.

Sorry, my mistake, but the only final consolidated number there is for Episode 1 (Overnights for that were 8.2m). The others are all overnights. The picture painted is similar though - beating Capaldi, similar-ish to Smith (behind S5 but above 6 and 7), behind Tennant.

  • Demons of the Punjab 5.77 overnight
  • The Tsuranga Conundrum 6.12 overnight / 7.76 final
  • Arachnids in the UK 6.43 overnight / 8.22 final
  • Rosa 6.39 overnight / 8.41 total
  • The Ghost Monument 7.11 overnight / 9.00 total
  • The Woman Who Fell to Earth 8.20 overnight / 10.95 total
My longer-term concern is that younger audiences are bouncing off the show now because it's not as much of a swashbuckling adventure any more. I'm loving Jodie and the cast, and individual episodes are great, but I'm feeling more and more the hope that they, y'know, mingle the sort of attitude they've found in Rosa and this week with some tonally camp invasion-of-the-week stuff with aliens that bark memorable catchphrases that can be copied in the playground.
 
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JonathanEx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
717
That's interesting. I'd be curious if we did get breakdowns of ages of audiences to back that up.

While I've enjoyed Punjab/Rosa, we've not been served as well for actual monsters. Very little time of Tsuranga Conundrum (what an 80s episode name) dealt with them, and otherwise it's been spiders. It's like, I've not disliked the episodes, but there's still some of that adventure we could be better served with.

Basically this is the point in the run where a Dalek hit wouldn't actually go amiss
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,725
England
That's interesting. I'd be curious if we did get breakdowns of ages of audiences to back that up.

While I've enjoyed Punjab/Rosa, we've not been served as well for actual monsters. Very little time of Tsuranga Conundrum (what an 80s episode name) dealt with them, and otherwise it's been spiders. It's like, I've not disliked the episodes, but there's still some of that adventure we could be better served with.

Basically this is the point in the run where a Dalek hit wouldn't actually go amiss

The Tsuranga Conundurm had the third-lowest AI in the history of the reboot iirc (after Love & Monsters and Sleep No More). People didn't rate it.
 

milamber182

Member
Dec 15, 2017
7,714
Australia
Sorry, my mistake, but the only final consolidated number there is for Episode 1 (Overnights for that were 8.2m). The others are all overnights. The picture painted is similar though - beating Capaldi, similar-ish to Smith (behind S5 but above 6 and 7), behind Tennant.

  • Demons of the Punjab 5.77 overnight
  • The Tsuranga Conundrum 6.12 overnight / 7.76 final
  • Arachnids in the UK 6.43 overnight / 8.22 final
  • Rosa 6.39 overnight / 8.41 total
  • The Ghost Monument 7.11 overnight / 9.00 total
  • The Woman Who Fell to Earth 8.20 overnight / 10.95 total
My longer-term concern is that younger audiences are bouncing off the show now because it's not as much of a swashbuckling adventure any more. I'm loving Jodie and the cast, and individual episodes are great, but I'm feeling more and more the hope that they, y'know, mingle the sort of attitude they've found in Rosa and this week with some tonally camp invasion-of-the-week stuff with aliens that bark memorable catchphrases that can be copied in the playground.

I'm stoked with the ratings. They are falling but not as fast as predicted. Even in the Tenant era the ratings would be in a major slump by the 5th episode.

If you read the Gallifrey Base forum they have a "Not We" thread each week with fans recounting the opions of their casual family and friends. Although it's an extemely small sample size the feedback from children has been mostly positive so far this season. The AI's have also been good except for The Tsuranga Conundrum.
 
OP
OP
Dwebble

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,623
Point of order- if we compare the relevant episodes, Whittaker IS doing better than Eccleston, Tennant, Smith and Capaldi on raw figures, and is totally monstering them on relative chart placements.

 

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,246
My longer-term concern is that younger audiences are bouncing off the show now because it's not as much of a swashbuckling adventure any more. I'm loving Jodie and the cast, and individual episodes are great, but I'm feeling more and more the hope that they, y'know, mingle the sort of attitude they've found in Rosa and this week with some tonally camp invasion-of-the-week stuff with aliens that bark memorable catchphrases that can be copied in the playground.
Daleks for Christmas/very early S12?

Anyway, I too am curious about the break in demographics. I remember people talking about S8 being too dark, and 12 obviously was very grim and abrasive, but Christ I feel this season is giving 8's darkness a run for its money. Tonally, it's the most serious NuWho has ever been, so it's interesting to see if the bright/nice Doctor is enough to contain an audience bleed.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,288
My SO and I are enjoying this season. One of the best things I can say is that they didn't try to aggressively set Jodie Doctor a part from the others, which would have been weird. She just feels like the Doctor, but her own spin on it. No different than Capaldi, Smith, Tenant, etc. I think they've done a great job creating three compelling characters in Ryan, Yaz, and Graham. A problem I have is that they tend to give *things to do* in any given episode to Graham and one other, and the third just kind stands around and points at things.

As for the episodes themselves - they've done a great job with handling historical events with respect. One person I saw said that the show feels like it's returning to it's educational roots. I definitely learned more about the Partition of India than I ever did in school (in that I didn't).

On the other hand, these episodes have been mostly straight forward with very little hook. The alien threats have all been pretty dull. The plots of the episode are pretty dull as well, never reaching the level of high-concept the previous seasons have. One of my favorite things about Who in the past is seeing what kind of super creative sci-fi concept they're going to tackle. I always go back to the episode with the ship being pulled into the black hole, which was such a cool and clever idea. They haven't really had anything close to that yet.

So I'm enjoying the characters and Jodie's version of the Doctor and they're holding up episodes that aren't really doing much for me.