Bloody hell. What a total and complete lack of understanding of the daily life of another person. I'm shocked. I shouldn't be. But I am.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Nintendo “wins” 12 Millions in lawsuit to ROM site
- Thread starter Pablo Mesa
- Start date
Bloody hell. What a total and complete lack of understanding of the daily life of another person. I'm shocked. I shouldn't be. But I am.
I'm sad to hear that, since I work on hard on games that I hope are meaningful even in their own little way. I don't mean to compare my or better artists' work directly to literature since I know games and books are different mediums, but I do feel that all artforms should be made accessible. I don't think I'm more deserving to live a full life filled with books, movies, music, games, theatre, just because I was born in a developed country and have a lot of money.
You're saying that people have no right to these things, but my starting point's different. When my starting point is that I have no right to have so much more money than other people and therefore so much more art available to me, I make sure not to judge others who can't access those artforms and seek out illegal ways to have what I'm so lucky to have.
As I said earlier in this thread, my parents rented me games all the time from Blockbuster. Meanwhile, I had poor friends who would pirate older games and play them at shitty frame rates on emulators. I don't think I was in a position to think they were "bad" for doing that, and I certainly wasn't empathizing more with Nintendo's lost revenue than with my friends who could hardly have been counted as "lost sales".
Edit:
So to reiterate, I don't think that people have a "right" to piracy because of their economic circumstances. What I do think is that I totally understand and empathize with why people do it, and I'm not going to celebrate a billion-dollar corporation from shutting down illegal access to older games, securing future hypothetical revenue that they wouldn't even share with the human beings who made the original works. That's just celebrating Nintendo Co. Ltd.'s bank account from going to $4.6 billion to $4.612 billion, which is a hard thing for me to give a fuck about, while the original artists, the human beings who made Faxanadu or StarTropics or whatever, aren't paid a dime.
Last edited:
Libraries are great, I love libraries. If a library of video games is what you want, you should do that. Buy games you want to lend out to players, lend them out, get them back, repeat. A roms website is NOT a library.
They were, and society did not bother to defend that agreement, so corporations took advantage as they are wont. Now instead of fixing the copyright to a reasonable arrangement, they just take them and call themselves robin hood.
Why does JK Rowling provide her work for free? And when I was a kid I read plenty of books that I wouldn't exactly say morally edified me or made me smarter or whatever. I read plenty of books at the library that were just fun adventure stuff, what I might call the equivalent to COD in that it's just for entertainment, not didactic reasons. The library was a fun place to be at, not just alternate school.
can I get receipts on this? Like If Sega of all people can justify giving (arguably) one of their best teams complete Leeaway to rework and add major additions to some niche stuff like virtua racing, why cant Nintendo simply put the unaltered games up for download? Even if very few people would buy it, I cant see it being a complete loss.
your avatar is very appropriate for your post
I live daily life and don't have a lot of money, so I know games should be the last thing I buy over what I really need. Games are a luxury not cable tv. Nice to have, but you really don't need it.
Sega does it because it's cheap money and most of the time they're just rereleasing their big games too like Sonic. Like, how many times have they rereleased Shining Force?
This is not saying Nintendo didn't make money off the VC, but it peaked during the Wii and really fizzled with the Wii U. And this isn't even just Nintendo since Sony who invented modern backwards capability all but stopped supporting it during the PS4. This wouldn't be suddenly done if they were making a lot of money out of it because cooperations love your money.
Yeah and I have said it's all wrong regardless, and I have no issues with people losing the ability to pirate games that are readily available in a way that compensates the right holder, but am I going to get mad at people who pirate Mother 3, Lufia 2, Terranigma, or a whole host of fan translated Japanese games from 25 years ago?
No, I struggle to get mad at that, though I do get frustrated that you pretty much have to miss out on those games because it's illegal. I'd much rather they were sold on modern platforms so people could legally play them in a way that rewards the rights holder
We need to be more vocal about this, but sadly Nintendo have gone backwards, going from a poorly stocked VC with shoddy emulation to a regressive service based system
Back in the day cable TV was a luxury too. You think poor people always had televisions? Also I'm pretty sure not every poor person has cable TV today lol
At least where I am, libraries also carry video games. There are also methods of playing ROMS legally via preservation sites/institutions. Comparing an institution where a publisher and a library agree to distribute content to piracy is fucking stupid.
I don't see why content creators need to give up their rights to their own work, especially when they are still alive and benefiting financially from it (or have potential plans to). The copyright period might be too long for some of you but, eventually, those games will become free just as many books and films have gone into the public domain over the years.
A game being 10/20 years old does not give you the right to download it for free.
I don't see why content creators need to give up their rights to their own work, especially when they are still alive and benefiting financially from it (or have potential plans to). The copyright period might be too long for some of you but, eventually, those games will become free just as many books and films have gone into the public domain over the years.
A game being 10/20 years old does not give you the right to download it for free.
You have no right to anyone's work without their permission yes, that's the moral way to view it. If I make a game and intend to profit from it, you have no right to take it just because you're economically challenged, and i'd hope companies would put the effort in to cease illegal downloads anyway plausible. People should be credited for their work outside of a firm pat on the back.
Fair enough, not the case in Australia where you are allowed one format shift.
But even for the US, the only word that changes from what I wrote was 'illegal'. The rest stands:
Even if it's illegal to make a copy of your own legally purchased game, that's entirely separate from requiring ROM piracy sites.
That takes time and money for the company as well, It's not really a great excuse for someone to go pirate it instead in the meanwhile.
Game publishers can provide their work for free if they want to, and they have. That's a decision to be made on an individual level. If Capcom says here take all the Mega Man games that doesn't suddenly make it alright to download their whole catalog and put it on 'preservation' rom sites filled with malware and shady ads.
TV is still a luxury and I honestly know a lot of people who have no business having one since they can barely afford the bills as is, so what's your point?
I doubt Nintendo will care that the laws in Australia are different, their stance will be the same
The point you were refuting was this would kill fan translations, when technically it would seeing as from Nintendos point of view, they are illegal
"Games are a luxury not cable tv" seems to imply cable tv isn't a luxury.
If the ROMs are so old that there are no chances of obtaining them legally and the IP owner refuses to make a sellable copy, who cares? I get this if the site is full of games you can buy at this moment, otherwise... eh..
Also how do game IPs work? Are they forever or will they die out?
Also how do game IPs work? Are they forever or will they die out?
Service base is actually forward thinking, look at Netflix. It isn't getting mad. But you as a consumer still have no right to something you don't own even if it is limited. Especially for, again, a luxury item.
I mis-typed. Meant to write, 'games are luxury items like cable tv'.
Well I think it's worth considering why we as a society encourage public libraries, and why publishers allow libraries to lend out books. And I agree with the other guy that I can't imagine libraries as a system could be invented today, and I'm thankful I don't live in that hypothetical world; everyone would be worse off for it.
Tell that to my self who learned English before school through games.
While I'm always against piracy, I assume most of the games that were available on these sites, there was no official means to get them anymore? This industry continues to be a joke where "preservation" is another excuse for the multimillion companies to cash people.
A lot of folks defending theft in this thread.
If you can't afford a new Tesla, you probably shouldn't go steal it.
This same mentality works for all things you cannot afford and do not own.
Theft is not ok whether you feel entitled to it or not.
If you can't afford a new Tesla, you probably shouldn't go steal it.
This same mentality works for all things you cannot afford and do not own.
Theft is not ok whether you feel entitled to it or not.
I'm not saying I, nor anyone else, has a right to these games, and it's not forward thinking at all, I'm forever frustrated with Netflix for removing shows on a whim I'm halfway through watching
If Nintendo suddenly pull a 40 hour game I'm 20 hours into I'll be furious, as would I be if I decided to go back and play a favourite from the NES only to find it's been removed, or they've reset the system for the Switch 2, or they've raised the subscription price
While they offer a sub-par way of getting a hold of their classic titles, people will always break the law to get a better service, and as much as we can both agree that is wrong, it will continue to happen regardless of how much money Nintendo throw at lawsuits
So unless you believe video game piracy can be 100% eradicated via lawsuits, wouldn't it be better to make progress in another way, a way that addresses and monitises the demand?
I disagree with calling pirating stealing, because the analogy is not symmetric, however, copyright holders hold the right to make copies, purchasers of a copy have the right to sell that particular copy. People who are not copyright holders nor purchasers have no rights to the software in question.
Used copies have already paid the developers in the original transaction. People pirating games are devaluing the copies used copy market, so if you must have a person being stolen from to care, it is them.
Just, you know, buy the game if you want to play it.
If said games are not available on any digital storefront and the developers are not getting paid for second hand transactions, I don't see the problem. Devs have come out in the past and said they would rather people pirate than buy their games second hand on multiple occasions.
No it would not. I literally wrote out exactly how fan translations can be fine with no piracy. NO rom sites are necessary for fan translations to be easily available, only equipment to rip yourself, which is really not expensive or difficult to use in this day and age:
https://www.retrogameboards.com/t/t...-to-build-your-own-legit-retro-rom-library/98
Romhacking.net is up right now with no roms. If Nintendo goes after that, we can have another conversation, but pirated rom sites are 100% unnecessary for translations and hacks to exist and be used.
The point is that ripping roms yourself doesn't seem to be legal, at least in America, and Nintendo doesn't want you to do it no matter what and views it as illegal. If Nintendo could have their way, that equipment would be banned for being illegal.
If Tom says you can freely copy a game he made, you can, but that doesn't mean you can freely copy Dick's game as well. Understand?
This always reminds me of the Mindy Kaling stand up where she talks about the "you wound't steal a car, would you?" anti piracy campaign
"If I could touch a car, and then I owned the car, and the person who originally owned the car also still owned the car, then yeah I'd probably steal a car"
Not that I endorse theft of cars or video game ROMs, it's just that it's absurd to equate grand theft auto with video game piracy
I don't think Nintendo suits care about this.
Because they inflate the price when they sell them.
I don't think dick should care very much if they're not providing it.
I hear this is a good game, you should get it! https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panzer-Dra...c9ae636:g:Jh0AAOSwuUlb3OuZ:rk:8:pf:0&LH_BIN=1
From Nintendo of Australia:
https://www.nintendo.com.au/legal
So Nintendo believe fan translations are illegal, and count as piracy
Even in Australia
If in this analogy, Nintendo is Dick, then they are clearly saying that they care. How can you not see this? Does a lawsuit look like not caring?
BTW, I don't need to, as I already have the game and got it on day one. If you didn't get it already, you are free to buy it off eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panzer-Dra...fo/263060311395?hash=item3d3f9dcd63:rk:1:pf:0
Is it okay to buy this version off of ebay? Is it morally okay?
It's still far more forwarding thinking since consumers can trying something new instead of rebuying the same thing over again.
Nintendo's lawsuit will discourage more from popping up compared if they did nothing and may even forced some to removed their Nintendo games so they don't end up on court. So while the problem will keep existing, they still put a damper on it. Like we don't stop punishing crimes because people will still committee crimes regardless.
Unless you have the permission from one of these developers, that doesn't give you free reign since a lot of developers don't agree with this mindset.
There are plenty of great films, albums and books that are out of print and never or only recently became available digitally. For years enthusiasts had to track down physical copies of out of print films, videos, vinyl recordings and books. Just like game enthusiast had to track down cartridges. Rereleases of classic albums and films on new media used to be a big deal too because they were hard to get. It wasnt just assumed that we should have free access to every classic piece of media that had ever been created.
Some things have changed with the digital age. We now have greater access to old media. With the digital age some but not all of these old media are getting rereleased just like some but not all old games are getting rereleased.
But there is a difference between an individual sharing rare, out of print media and a site hosting widely accessable and currently on sale classics. Its like, you might get away with file sharing the Mary Jane Girls debut album but you wont be able to host Michael Jackson, Queen and The Beatles discographies
If this is a link to a pirated version, no. I mean, if you bought it thinking it was authentic, then I don't think you should hold moral responsibility as it would be an accident, but if you bought it knowing it is a pirate copy, then I would question your morality, yes.
Yeah but in the same way extending the death penalty to cover more crimes also is unlikely to reduce crime
They need to do the legal action side of things on one front, but they need to also be competing with the pirates to beat them when it comes to providing a service
It was the same with Steam and PC piracy:
Valve's Gabe Newell Says Piracy Is a Service Problem
Piracy on PC is still an issue but it's so much easier to just buy a game on Steam, as they have a better service than the pirates
If you want retro games the pirates offer you the best service by far right now, and that is what Nintendo need to work on
I remain firm in my stance that if the game is not available in a digital storefront and isn't being sold anywhere by the developer, it is okay. It's fine if people have different moral stances. I firmly believe that people should not be spending $900 for a video game unless they make six figures a year.
Make it library then. Massive free archive is correct. Surely not what we have right now with piracy sites being shielded by preservation as an argument.
We have seen many game suffer sales during ds to psp era where games literally does not sells as piracy is so rampant. Thats what lead to many games not being localized.
Piracy sites should be closed down. And if we are talking preservation, having a library or massive archive bank which allow product to be preserve is a good idea without chance of ruining game due to piracy.
Whats with silly reason? First, u want the game to be available for decent price and then u want to pay nintendo directly? If u really want to play those games and preserve the item. Pay the money then. Dont put stupid reason everywhere.
The death penalty isn't really the same thing. The point is, we don't stopped trying to stop crime because you can't ever stop crime. It's the same BS argument the NRA uses to say why we can't have good gun laws. 'We can't stop all mass shooters, so there's no point to having gun laws'.
I mean, you're just continuing to prove my statement true. A total lack of understanding of another persons life.
Maybe I'm being too aggressive with my wording? I think I'm just saying 'Not everyone is like you'.
I come from a migrant background and grew up in a ghetto in the the east end of London in the 80's and 90's and the experience of myself and most of my friends was one of forever trying to find the next buzz from copying games and sharing pirated videos and taping songs from the radio. When the world around you is a bit shit and money is hard to come by, entertainment becomes one of the most important currencies. Obviously, you're experience is different and that's fine. It's not a case of whose right and whose wrong, it's a case of recognising other peoples daily lives.
Regards.
If you can live a comfortable life and afford games, then you're not in the poor house unless you're living beyond your means, which is a different issue. Which was the original topic about poor people having easier access to games.
I understand that games and such is a released for people with crappy lives. Lord knows gaming helped me through hard times. But my point was that at the end of the day, gaming is a luxury and really shouldn't be the main focused of someone who is stressed for money. I'm not saying poor kids shouldn't game, but what those kids really need isn't games, if that makes sense.
That's some bullshit. Game developers do, for example. Tons of old games with good or bad game design that can be educational are being lost.
Hundreds of millions?
LMFAO
In what planet does Nintendo find people like you