Phil Spencer do not think that streaming will replace traditional consoles anytime soon, if ever.

Companies like activision or EA will slowly try to push us away from physical into downloads and streaming if shit like Spyro is any indication.

We're fortunate that Phil Spencer isnt another Adam Orth or Don Mattrick.

Heartskips said:

Couldn't say better. I like actually owning the stuff I pay for.

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Yeah, I feel the same about Spotify but maybe that's because I'm old and listen to the same few favourite bands most the time. But lots prefer the streaming model. There's undoubtedly a market for it.

I mean, as long as streaming services are based on actual console hardware, there is no reason to "replace consoles". It's literally the same, just the connection to your TV is different.

GameZone said:

On a console the best scenario for you is to download that game and play.

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Now that's a change there. No more buy a disc and put it in. Steaming may not take over, but the nature of a console may. I could see a drive towards removing the need for a huge box being the next step after removing media.

Heartskips said:

Couldn't say better. I like actually owning the stuff I pay for.

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Cool, so what are you trying to argue? This is just another way to play your games.

Justsomeguy said:

Yeah, I feel the same about Spotify but maybe that's because I'm old and listen to the same few favourite bands most the time. But lots prefer the streaming model. There's undoubtedly a market for it.

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The upside to services like Spotify is how it can recommend comparable bands I never heard of. I have found many new artists this way and some I went to see them play live. Spotify did not remove my music collection it expanded it. The narrow views some have on services like streaming is weird to me.

Until data caps are gone away with, streaming games as a primary or only source of playing will never be an option for a mainline console.

pretty sure cloud computing is the future (and the future is now). all those computers working together + being streamed over the internet to any device that you own = inevitable future.

Streaming won't replace local hardware because there's no way the latency will get low enough for VR any time in the near future.

I believe that with stuff like this you're much more likely to see both technologies mix, co-exist, and/or integrate in some fashion over time than you are to see one one displace the other. So there will always be dedicated hardware in some fashion that will utilize streaming tech but not necessarily prioritize it. But new technologies that don't yet exist (or haven't established themselves yet), as well as shifting attitudes/habits of the consumer base, can always influence this stuff. You could see more multi-application devices that stream games hit the market, making that kind of gaming more accessible to more people, possibly shrinking the ratio of dedicated:non-dedicated hardware... but still, I don't think that will remove dedicated boxes from the equation.

Good quote from Phil, still has a good vision for Xbox imo

khamakazee said:

Cool, so what are you trying to argue? This is just another way to play your games.



The upside to services like Spotify is how it can recommend comparable bands I never heard of. I have found many new artists this way and some I went to see them play live. Spotify did not remove my music collection it expanded it. The narrow views some have on services like streaming is weird to me.

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Yes agreed, I use Spotify loads I just use the free version and buy the albums I like. Weird I know.

GameZone said:

Such scenario would also benefit Microsoft, but they still act differently towards the idea.

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MS has a storefront where they get a 30% cut from games published on their platform or console.

Most game publishers do not have that, and if they have the ability to reach customers directly without needing the gate-keeping of Steam/PSN/XBL/WS, but just the internet speeds of the customer, they'd benefit.

It's worth noting that a lot of cloud-offering initiatives being explored by publishers at the moment, are not 'we're partnering with XCloud/etc, but rather them exploring their own outreach opportunities. If they could, they don't want the middle-man that are platform holders.'

DrDeckard said:

Great response. It seems like we are on the same page. Am I at home playing my games? Then I'm playing on dedicated hardware.

Am I out on the road with work and I have my laptop with me? Then I'm streaming.

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This is how it should be
(As for the next decade)
Let's add that the implementation of 5g will globally leverage the quality of streaming services by miles (lots of miles ))) )

For me it'll definitely be an alternative, a fun diversion for when I'm not at home in my ideal gaming conditions. But it'll take decades (if we ever get there) to have fast, stable, unlimited connections everywhere and before the streaming gets to a level that it doesn't look compressed and where the input lag is impossible to notice. And well, this is only a possible reality soon-ish in certain countries, no doubt there's places where it'll take even longer to get there, and it's impossible to have streaming as the only option in those areas for sure. And I don't even talk about third world, there's for example Italy where most people have pretty trash connections.

MartinB105 said:

Streaming won't replace local hardware because there's no way the latency will get low enough for VR any time in the near future.

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I think that VR have longer road than streaming

Well yeah, if streaming ends up replacing console, Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo will end up with a lot more competitors, it'll be weird for him to state otherwise.

I am really looking forward to streaming consoles onto portable devices so I for one welcome the future. But it will probably be shit for a long time before it is good.

Good news to me.

GameZone said:

Not all devices are capable of playing the most demanding games that we see here on the show, so streaming is an option in those scenario,

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This is the final piece of their "there are no more generations" future.

Prior to that he also gives a very interesting tidbit: He says the team has prototypes of a switch like device for streaming on the go, but he doesn't know if they will launch it, because he prefer people to use their own phones and tablets.

Well this certainly does change the narrative built up over the past few years. Personally, I haven't thought about going digital since the original Watch Dogs from ubi.

Betelgeuse said:

This is an interesting quote, because I've seen xCloud - and whatever rumored streaming box that will release fairly soon - framed as Microsoft's renewed push for the mass market and potential mechanism for recapturing market share lost during the XB1 era. I've also seen it argued that this streaming box will be the cheaper sibling to Scarlet, which might be $500 given X's release price.

So I wonder how reflective this remark is of Microsoft's overall attitude on streaming and the degree to which they're internally positioning it as a mass market device. It may be that it's conceived as a slow burn, with the first streaming box and Azure backend merely laying the groundwork.

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I think by that quote he means other companies delivering a streaming solution.

He is saying like: It will be a while before every game company even offers a streaming solution let alone it taking over the dedicated hardware market.

Edge said:

It's fine, but what's even better is my over 350 Blu Ray big movie collection. Best quality, best sound, hours of extras for every movie, several movie cuts, several uncut movies that you wouldn't get anywhere else and nobody ever can take them away from me. No licensing issues, not being dependant of what a service gives me or what not. Every single film in his own little case, which I can physically take out of my shelf. It's amazing, what a good feeling.

Thanks for asking.

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Blu-Rays aren't like games though.

Physical games are no worse quality than their digital counterparts. And physical games these days often need patches for a satisfactory experience, or even mandatory downloads - none of which are on the disc.

Sadly physical games simply aren't what they used to be - they don't have the same value as they did back when games shipped in a complete condition.

GameZone said:

It`s about giving you a choice as a player, not about replacing what you do today.

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The main answer is just common sense, so it's always nice to hear higher ups speaking common sense, I guess.

But man does these kind of non-answer rub me the wrong way. It's just so supposedly obvious that they feel utterly suspect by simply saying it.

Like "we're giving you a choice, but if you choose to go full on streaming, we won't complain :winkwink:"

I know it's probably not what he meant, but it can so easily be read that way ...

Very glad to hear this! I don't mind Streaming as an option for those who want it. As Phil says, everyone should have options, and that's what's so great about MS/Xbox at the moment. If someone has a beastly PC gaming rig and loves it, they can play MS's offerings there. If someone prefers the affordability, accessibility and ease of use of Consoles, they have Xbox One S as an option. If they want power and accessibility all in one package and are willing to pay a bit more, there's Xbox One X (my preference). If someone wants to play MS games at their convenience anywhere (or simply doesn't want to buy any sort of hardware to play games), and don't mind the potential compromises, they will have XCloud. They are similarly giving you the choice over how you consume their content, whether owning it all, or experiencing all of it as part of Gamepass.

As long as streaming remains an option, an alternative, I have no issue with it (same with Gamepass). As with Gamepass however, I do not want a future where streaming is my only option. I want full ownership of my games with compromise to the quality of the experience, and to be able to play single-player games and such without total reliance on a constant, quality internet connection. I also just personally have never had a good experience (in terms of either image quality or responsiveness) with any game streaming service, including the recent and oft praised Google Stream Service. So, I hope this is the truth, and as long as it is, bring on XCloud!

Just people with nonsense from the reality of infrastructure around the world to believe that will happen.

It`s about giving you a choice as a player, not about replacing what you do today.
- Phil Spencer

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Nice. I hope their streaming option works great cos I'd love to own both options next gen. (Scarlett premium and Scarlett stream).

Edge said:

It's fine, but what's even better is my over 350 Blu Ray big movie collection. Best quality, best sound, hours of extras for every movie, several movie cuts, several uncut movies that you wouldn't get anywhere else and nobody ever can take them away from me. No licensing issues, not being dependant of what a service gives me or what not. Every single film in his own little case, which I can physically take out of my shelf. It's amazing, what a good feeling.

Thanks for asking.

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High Five and much respect. I have an over 350 Blu-ray collection too, not to mention getting the actual IMAX scenes from movies like The Dark Knight.

I'm glad to hear Phil Spencer say it. I will not be on this stream train.

christocolus said:

Nice. I hope their streaming option works great cos I'd love to own both options next gen. (Scarlett premium and Scarlett stream).

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Matrick response re local gaming for next gen, "there's an X1 for that". What a turn around in philosophy, and I completely agree with Phil (and others), streaming as an option cannot be argued against, but as a requirement, then its problematic for entire gaming industry and especially consumers.

Streaming data from inbuilt graphics card will always be faster and more trouble free than downloading it from the Internet.

Dont know why companies think streaming will replace consoles anytime soon.

Vaibhav said:

Streaming data from inbuilt graphics card will always be faster and more trouble free than downloading it from the Internet.

Dont know why companies think streaming will replace consoles anytime soon.

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I don't think you read the OP at all

having it as a supplement would be genius though............because they get mass sale increases via their subscription model instant streaming and those who want the highest of tier quality can do so at home. it allows for some high budget titles due to just player number amount around the world and increased audience.

My only fear is

1. How many subscription models are being introduced. It's like movie/tv streaming services, i swear we have like 12 of them now. DC, Disney, Nickolodean, Hulu, Netflix, Amazon and more
2. How much more monetization this could cause due to touching the mobile gamer. If its just cosmetics and skins which seem to be a huge market and cash cow.............let that hopefully be as bad as it gets, because for some companies it works fantastic. See overwatch, and Fortnite as people who are obsessed with skins but most players are there for the gameplay which is fantastic.
3. Data caps and speed.............this will never exist in a good form at least in the states due to our bullshit infrastructure and monopoly control, especially with comcast.

But I believe a bigger income of revenue would never be a bad thing. It means they can push more variety and games more often with a bigger pool

It is the future if you ask me. The 10 year old me didn't know that in less than two decades, he'll be able to stream 4k movies while in the bathroom taking a dump.

Derrick01 said:

They want a streaming future so they can use their own solutions and bypass the 30% cut they give to the 3 console makers, just like how they all use their own client on PC to cut out Steam. That's the only reason 3rd party pubs want a streaming future.

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Yeah.Plus streaming only,with no download option at all,would kill piracy for good.I bet publishers love that idea.

Good. I sincerely hope you're right Phil.

Justsomeguy said:

It's seen as opening up whole new markets, think China and India for example ... Has the potential for huge market expansion in the medium to long term. It's not so much about Japan and America Sony vs MS, as it is a whole new market and strategy.

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Gaming in China is fully F2P. Mobile gaming is almost fully F2P globally,more then 90% of casuals on mobile don't spend any money on games,they make lots of money from whales.
This bunch will not pay en masse for some streaming game service,it's an illusion that some companies have.

This felt soothing.

Yeah, you don't say. Should be obvious, but maybe I shouldn't blame people for expecting the worst.

No. There are certain scenarios where a stream game is the best answer. On a console the best scenario for you is to download that game and play. If you are on a PC that`s capable of download and play that game, download and play that game. Not all devices are capable of playing the most demanding games that we see here on the show, so streaming is an option in those scenario, and there are some scenarios of like instant start and trials where maybe streaming on a device might be interesting, but I think for years and years the best way to play a game will be to download that game and play it. The same thing on PC. I think streaming is something that is further out in terms of it becoming a really mass marked where everybody`s doing it, and even way further out before it`s the best way to play that game, if it ever is.

It`s about giving you a choice as a player, not about replacing what you do today.

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essentially the very same points I raised in the 'cloud computing potentially threatening high-end PC gaming' thread.

For the sake of the art let's hope he is right.

A streaming only future would be dystopian.

BigTnaples said:

Ever is a strong word.


Glad to see this stance now, but eventually we will be able to stream 16K VR with little to no compression, and at that point, I think physical discs will be all but gone.

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Hmmm, will see.

Streaming only will limit the market. You know more than half the world doesn't have a proper fast connection?

Not only that, many ISPs actually limit data bandwidth for customers even in USA. That right there renders streaming obsolete.

I have a very decent internet; however, the other day my cable service was down for hours. Thank goodness I still have physical media to play in times like that.

I hope so. Streaming isn't great to me - always requiring an internet connection, the inherent jerkiness when it comes to streaming content, latency, etc... I have a 1Gbps line at home and even with that, I think the experience would not be good.

I'm happy to hear it from Phil, and I was honestly never sure why people thought this was an option. Kindle exists but yet people still buy traditional books. Spotify exists but people have gone back to buying things on vinyl.

As long as there's a tangible difference between streaming a game and playing it on local hardware, the need for said hardware will still exist. That doesn't mean that console hardware will still be the place where the majority of consumers play their games, but it'll be an option.

In 50 years who knows what will happen. But there is no way internet will be that good for the entire user base within the next two generations.

Man oh man, I love Phil.

Servbot24 said:

In 50 years who knows what will happen. But there is no way internet will be that good for the entire user base within the next two generations.

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Nope.
If anything, it will be worst now that net neutrality is dead in the USA and expanding.

Streaming games as the sole means of playing them will never be viable in America at least with the way our ISP's have made sure to improve things at the slowest possible speed. Whether its pure speed, implementation of data caps, or just providing service at all. You would stand to lose millions of customers because they simply couldn't use the service based on things neither the game service providers or the customers can control.

GameZone said:

So did I, but EA and Ubisoft seem to think otherwise.

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I think they HOPE Otherwise and they want to be ready if consumers shift to this direction... But such a shift is a long way off.

Betelgeuse said:

This is an interesting quote, because I've seen xCloud - and whatever rumored streaming box that will release fairly soon - framed as Microsoft's renewed push for the mass market and potential mechanism for recapturing market share lost during the XB1 era. I've also seen it argued that this streaming box will be the cheaper sibling to Scarlet, which might be $500 given X's release price.

So I wonder how reflective this remark is of Microsoft's overall attitude on streaming and the degree to which they're internally positioning it as a mass market device. It may be that it's conceived as a slow burn, with the first streaming box and Azure backend merely laying the groundwork.

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Xcloud is less about recovering lost console marketshare, and more a realization that half of the gaming market, mobile, is untapped potential for them. Not only that but the largest potential for markeshare lies in being hardware agnostic.

I think he's absolutely right that there will be little demand from their traditional consumer for streaming to be the primary delivery method. And it'll always make sense to meet these customers where they are. But streaming also presents a huge opportunity to reach non-traditional consumers with traditional content and experiences.

pswii60 said:

Blu-Rays aren't like games though.

Physical games are no worse quality than their digital counterparts. And physical games these days often need patches for a satisfactory experience, or even mandatory downloads - none of which are on the disc.

Sadly physical games simply aren't what they used to be - they don't have the same value as they did back when games shipped in a complete condition.

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the question is not about how physical compares to digital - its about how physical compares to streaming...

Just like playing a movie on local hardware, playing a game on local hardware will always offer benefits that can't be replicated by a streaming service, due to the limitations of physics.

VariantX said:

Streaming games as the sole means of playing them will never be viable in America at least with the way our ISP's have made sure to improve things at the slowest possible speed. Whether its pure speed, implementation of data caps, or just providing service at all. You would stand to lose millions of customers because they simply couldn't use the service based on things neither the game service providers or the customers can control.

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Never is a really long time.

Sounds good to me. Streaming may actually be an attractive option for me, personally, as I live 12ms from an azure data center and have 4ms base ping on my 1000/1000 connection with no data caps. That's pretty far from the norm, though, and I somehow doubt it would be ideal even with my good internet plan and proximity to infrastructure.

If 5G cellular connections provide decent performance, then imo the coolest application of streaming would be to play your console games on a gaming handheld, sharing a cloud save with your console/pc.

I think he´s telling us what we want to hear while working on a streaming only solution for the not so far future.