Todd Howard:"Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6 Will Not Get a New Graphics Engine " [update: inaccurate]

BRSxIgnition · Nov 12, 2018

Why do they think this is a good thing?

This engine is so old and limiting now, and that's on top of their usual inability to test for bugs or put out a stable product.

This is a recipe for disaster.

Poutine · Nov 12, 2018

The quote in question:

This isn't really just a meme anymore, Bethesda's engine is an active turn-off, and I am concerned that they seem to be determined to keep just upgrading and upgrading the engine for future games like Starfield and ES6, rather than wiping the slate clean.

"For Fallout 76 we have changed a lot," Todd Howard told Gamestar this year. "The game uses a new renderer, a new lighting system and a new system for the landscape generation. For Starfield even more of it changes. And for The Elder Scrolls 6, out there on the horizon even more. We like our editor. It allows us to create worlds really fast and the modders know it really well. There are some elementary ways we create our games and that will continue because that lets us be efficient and we think it works best."

There is probably little point in complaining about this, as development on Bethesda's new games are well underway using a further modified version of the long-running engine, but man, is it more noticeably rough than ever, and it's actively discouraging me from playing Fallout 76 specifically.

Legitmcfalls · Nov 12, 2018

jschreier said:
This is, quite literally, fake news.

I was going to say, this is all BS. Nothing in the article says they are using the same engine.

Deleted member 249 · Nov 12, 2018

jschreier said:
This is, quite literally, fake news.

Oh thank fuck, I was about to rage lol

Lnds500 · Nov 12, 2018

I literally chuckled.

EDIT: Fake news

Punished Dan · Nov 12, 2018

If this is true it's a total farce.

red731 · Nov 12, 2018

They can begin with uninstaller tho.

tuxfool · Nov 12, 2018

Izanagi89 said:
Damn. Y'all nitpicking quotes to misrepresent what Todd be saying. Yeesh

Yeah possibly.

Though in many ways what comes around, goes around.

Ichi · Nov 12, 2018

your engine was already outdated since last gen. jesus. I know it's a big undertaking to build an engine from the ground up because you have already invested so much time and code making a mess work but shouldn't it have been a mandate years and years ago to build a new one instead? can't believe they're carrying over spaghetti code onto the next generation and beyond. let it die already. you've all the money in the world.

RNG · Nov 12, 2018

Very disappointed to hear. Can't even play over 60fps with this engine on PC otherwise the game speeds up Benny Hill style and physics are broken. Characters are also floaty with this engine. Guess I'm out for Starfield and Elders Scrolls 6.

Caz · Nov 12, 2018

Becks' said:
Then games will bomb.

Unlikely; at this point you're either on board with Bethesda's games being varying degrees of messes or you're not, and a lot of people like the messes they make.

Toa Axis · Nov 12, 2018

That headline and this thread title are extremely misleading at best and patently false at worst.

Deadshot · Nov 12, 2018

Yeah and both are coming out in 2019.

Source: my dads cousins wife works at Bethesda

Thargas · Nov 12, 2018

Razor Mom said:
People in this thread genuinely don't know what they're "yikes"ing about. A new engine wouldn't mean anything, engines are constantly evolving. An enormous amount of unreal engine 3 is still present in unreal engine 4. As time moves forward, naturally the gap grows wider between engine states, but they're not these easily definable things like you seem to think they are. If Bethesda came out and said "We've got a new engine", you can bet your ass about 80% of its framework would be identical to Gamebryo, regardless of what they name it. I know its a janky-ass engine sometimes, but with the amount of upgrading they're likely to do, theres no reason why it couldn't see all sorts of modern systems that other engines benefit from, be it GI, better animation systems, whatever it might be.

^This

Of course they are not gonna make a new engine from scratch, they would be absolutely insane to do that.
They are gonna take the Creation Engine and massively iterate upon it in a way that most people probably wouldn't even notice it was the Creation engine unless Todd told them. Even if those games use like 1% of the Creation engine that Fallout 76 uses it would still technically be the same engine. Kind of like a Ship of Theseus paradox.

Every single time we have a thread like this is just shows that most people don't really understand how engines work.

Quintus · Nov 12, 2018

Wasn't the reason Elder Scrolls VI skipped this generation because the tech they required isn't possible this gen?

Razor Mom · Nov 12, 2018

Reactions to this thread really go to show how little of an understanding Resetera has about basic game development.

Cantaim · Nov 12, 2018

jschreier said:
This is, quite literally, fake news.

Lol that was fast, thanks for the heads up Jason!

Deleted member 1238 · Nov 12, 2018

Becks' said:
Then games will bomb.

you're right, I'm sure the sequel to Skyrim will bomb hard

Era is funny sometimes

Nirolak · Nov 12, 2018

I would be pretty surprised if they weren't updating the renderer, even if the underlying toolset is the same.

Malkier · Nov 12, 2018

Hmm that's not good, couldn't help but think fallout 76 looked super flat. Hopefully they can still do PBR, engine feels ancient besides the jank/bugs. Wish Bethesda would just stop it up to posh some polish.

TheDutchSlayer · Nov 12, 2018

jschreier said:
This is, quite literally, fake news.

Well that is that then, close thread?

Man I really really really hope even for their own sake its not true.

Arkeband · Nov 12, 2018

Use an older engine, Todd, you coward!

HMS_Pinafore · Nov 12, 2018

Razor Mom said:
Reactions to this thread really go to show how little of an understanding Resetera has about basic game development.

Also goes to show how little people do basic fact checking before reacting/ only reacting to the headlines.

garion333 · Nov 12, 2018

Todd Howard didn't say this, so wtf is up with the quote marks in the thread title?

They are going to continue using Creation Engine or whatever they call it after iterating on it further.

tuxfool · Nov 12, 2018

Nirolak said:
I would be pretty surprised if they weren't updating the renderer, even if the underlying toolset is the same.

Unfortunately the issues with their engine aren't really with the renderer.

mentallyinept · Nov 12, 2018

jschreier said:
Just to be clear, this website, GameWatcher (???), is taking this quote from a November 2 Forbes article citing a June 28 GameStar interview with Todd Howard.

Here's the actual quote, from Forbes:

"For Fallout 76 we have changed a lot," Todd Howard told Gamestar this year. "The game uses a new renderer, a new lighting system and a new system for the landscape generation. For Starfield even more of it changes. And for The Elder Scrolls 6, out there on the horizon even more. We like our editor. It allows us to create worlds really fast and the modders know it really well. There are some elementary ways we create our games and that will continue because that lets us be efficient and we think it works best."

Based on that quote, it seems to confirm that they are not dumping Creation\Gamebryo, they are just continuing to replace chunks of it as time goes on.

Even if they don't call it Creation\Gamebryo, is this article really reaching?

Heckler456 · Nov 12, 2018

Thargas said:
^This

Of course they are not gonna make a new engine from scratch, they would be absolutely insane to do that.
They are gonna take the Creation Engine and massively iterate upon it in a way that most people probably wouldn't even notice it was the Creation engine unless Todd told them. Even if those games use like 1% of the Creation engine that Fallout 76 uses it would still technically be the same engine. Kind of like a Ship of Theseus paradox.

Every single time we have a thread like this is just shows that most people don't really understand how engines work.

No getting in the way of that rush you feel getting worked up over something.

Or, at least, that's what I imagine is going on, given that we're talking about people who get worked up over the kind of engine a game that doesn't even really exist yet uses.

Razor Mom · Nov 12, 2018

Thargas said:
^This

Of course they are not gonna make a new engine from scratch, they would be absolutely insane to do that.
They are gonna take the Creation Engine and massively iterate upon it in a way that most people probably wouldn't even notice it was the Creation engine unless Todd told them. Even if those games use like 1% of the Creation engine that FAllout 76 uses it would still technically be the same engine. Kind of like a Ship of Theseus paradox.

Every single time we have a thread like this is just shows that most people don't really understand how engines work.

I'm glad someone gets it. It's honestly depressing to see. This place pretends to have this understanding of development and knowledgeable eye that makes development discussion interesting and meaningful, but in the end it just boils down to people who lack insight shouting loudly about things they don't actually get at all.

Blade Wolf · Nov 12, 2018

Stay ugly and broken while everyone already moves on to RDR2 level of graphics on next gen.

This right here is the very best example or developing a game safe. They are literally too afraid of using a different engine.

What a stupid fucking excuse, this what I hear: ''modder are more familiar with this engine and our games don't fucking work without mods''.

Phantom · Nov 12, 2018

Legitmcfalls said:
I was going to say, this is all BS. Nothing in the article says they are using the same engine.

At the same time, nothing says there are going to change engine. All I see them doing is use Gamebryo, add a few bells and whistles then call it a day.

Deleted member 9135 · Nov 12, 2018

Arkeband said:
Use an older engine, Todd, you coward!

ENCHANTMENT?

infinityBCRT · Nov 12, 2018

The quote in the thread title is fabricated.

From what I can tell, this is the original source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/insert...has-gone-from-meme-to-liability/#230075aa123a

edit: actually this https://www.gamestar.de/videos/fall...ei-fallout-3-gamestar-tv-fuer-alle,96653.html

and this is the actual quote:

"For Fallout 76 we have changed a lot," Todd Howard told Gamestar this year. "The game uses a new renderer, a new lighting system and a new system for the landscape generation. For Starfield even more of it changes. And for The Elder Scrolls 6, out there on the horizon even more. We like our editor. It allows us to create worlds really fast and the modders know it really well. There are some elementary ways we create our games and that will continue because that lets us be efficient and we think it works best."

chandoog · Nov 12, 2018

Whelp .. my interest in both those titles suddenly took a very sharp drop.

swift-darius · Nov 12, 2018

their games will sell, but they no longer have a monopoly on expansive open world rpgs. in fact, the competition seems to have left them behind in the dust these days. I understand wanting to stick to their established methodology which also helps them crowdsource value through modding (and with any change they should prioritise that anyway), but at this stage sticking to that is definitely, well, a Choice. as a big TES fan who never much cared for skyrim, not fallout 4/76, I'm increasingly disinterested in and wary of BGS titles

carlosrox · Nov 12, 2018

Meh, I'm fine with it.

I don't need to whine about it.

Doskoi Panda · Nov 12, 2018

Poutine said:
The quote in question:

And here's the full quote, including the question that was asked:

Q: You've been using more or less the same engine for years. What about Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6?

A: I think a lot of people, who are not making games dont understand what the word "engine" stands for.

They think the engine is this one thing, we view it as technology. There's a lot of different pieces and for every game, parts of that change. For example the renderer, the AI, the animations, the script language and so on.

Some people talk about Gamebryo but we haven't used that in a decade. A lot of our engine contains a lot of middleware like Havoc. For Fallout 76 we have changed a lot. The game uses a new renderer, a new lighting system and a new system for the landscape generation. For Starfield even more of it changes. And for Elder Scrolls 6, out there on the horizon even more.

We like our editor. It allows us to create worlds really fast and the modders know it really well. There are some elementary ways we create our games and that will continue because that lets us be efficiend and we think it works best.

Razor Mom · Nov 12, 2018

Heckler456 said:
No getting in the way of that rush you feel getting worked up over something.

Or, at least, that's what I imagine is going on, given that we're talking about people who get worked up over the kind of engine a game that doesn't even really exist yet uses.

Feels before Rea.....ding up on basic development information.

Barnabas Reynolds · Nov 12, 2018

Becks' said:
Then games will bomb.

el-oh-el

jschreier · Nov 12, 2018

Phantom said:
At the same time, nothing says there are going to change engine. All I see them doing is use Gamebryo, add a few bells and whistles then call it a day.

"Bells and whistles"? It is so bizarre how many video game fans talk about video game engines with no understanding of what a video game engine is.

Cantaim · Nov 12, 2018

Reading the gamestar article and then reading the forbes article it sources. Man this auther realy did take as many out of context quotes as possible to make this story lol

kennyamr · Nov 12, 2018

I mean they already look bad in my opinion, so I don't know why they wouldn't try to change their engine.
So many new changes techwise in the past few years. They have to... or at least should.

Muffin · Nov 12, 2018

mentallyinept said:
Based on that quote, it seems to confirm that they are not dumping Creation\Gamebryo, they are just continuing to replace chunks of it as time goes on.

Even if they don't call it Creation\Gamebryo, is this article really reaching?

Are the Creation Engine and the Gamebryo engine the same? Would replacing 90% of the engine still make it the same engine?

Adookah · Nov 12, 2018

Aokiji · Nov 12, 2018

yea well, the research go Nirolak told us this a while ago.

Jraphics Horse · Nov 12, 2018

Astandahl said:
Edit : it's not confirmed?

It's a German post-E3 interview used in a forbes contributor opinion piece and turned into some article on some site I've never heard of.

Whatever it is, it's not news

Nirolak · Nov 12, 2018

mentallyinept said:
Based on that quote, it seems to confirm that they are not dumping Creation\Gamebryo, they are just continuing to replace chunks of it as time goes on.

Even if they don't call it Creation\Gamebryo, is this article really reaching?

Well, "the engine" and "the graphics engine" are not the same thing, which I think is something people kind of miss.

They're not going to use an identical renderer next generation, which is what the quote implies.

Lashley · Nov 12, 2018

Shocker

Tibarn · Nov 12, 2018

Please be true.

HMS_Pinafore · Nov 12, 2018

For how much people on here hate Trump, they sure love pushing fake news when it suits their agenda.

-Tetsuo- · Nov 12, 2018

Is anyone surprised by this?

Todd Howard:"Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6 Will Not Get a New Graphics Engine " [update: inaccurate]

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