Doctor Who Series 11 |OT|- She’s Here, and It’s About Time

Stalker · Nov 11, 2018

Agree with Bradley Walsh being great. I was just saying today how Impressed I've been by him to my dad.

I feel like I have different likes and dislikes to the Era majority with this season, I've enjoyed it all and found Rosa to be the weakest of the episodes so far until this one. There's very little about it that's anything other than a 1 and done story for me. I won't be rewatching because the doctor had a great scene or the monster of the week was awesome. The human story is fine enough and some of the stuff about the divide was emotionally impactful but yeah. A mixed bag but on the weak side for me.

Personally nothing has been standout but I've enjoyed everything so far, I hope Lee Mack will be okay next episode. I dread comedians in DW but sometimes they really shine like Tate and Frank Skinner did and sometimes .. well

Otherist · Nov 11, 2018

Thank god someone knows how to write a functioning story this series. First episode so far to hold my attention all the way through. It had its foibles, some very shaky executions of editing/direction/acting and some duff bits of dialogue, but just in general it felt like a different and significantly better TV show compared to the previous five episodes.
It actually knew what it was doing! The characters had some nuance! Graham and Yaz spoke to each other for once! The Doctor behaved in interesting ways! Even the sci-fi subplot had a worthwhile thematic relevance to the historical story, rather than undermining it like in Rosa. Insane that it takes a solo episode by a writer who's completely new to the franchise to get any of the new format to work.

And what sweetened it so much was that this story deserved to be good, it's a kind of story that the TV show virtually never does (and a setting it basically never visits). You can sincerely see why it deserves to exist and is the sort of thing Doctor Who should do. So I'm relieved as hell that it came out right, imperfections aside.

Deleted member 3815 · Nov 11, 2018

Stalker said:
Agree with Bradley Walsh being great. I was just saying today how Impressed I've been by him to my dad.

I feel like I have different likes and dislikes to the Era majority with this season, I've enjoyed it all and found Rosa to be the weakest of the episodes so far until this one. There's very little about it that's anything other than a 1 and done story for me. I won't be rewatching because the doctor had a great scene or the monster of the week was awesome. The human story is fine enough and some of the stuff about the divide was emotionally impactful but yeah. A mixed bag but on the weak side for me.

Personally nothing has been standout but I've enjoyed everything so far, I hope Lee Mack will be okay next episode. I dread comedians in DW but sometimes they really shine like Tate and Frank Skinner did and sometimes .. well

That's what happens when you let little kids create an alien monster and then base a story around it. ¬_¬;

Gutting thought as the story of a group of people meeting up and talking about seeing the Doctor was really good and I liked that.

APZonerunner · Nov 11, 2018

I like Love and Monsters.

except for the really tasteless blowjob joke

Worthintendo · Nov 11, 2018

Good episode, I'm still missing the fantasy Sic Fi adventures aspect that Moffat really nailed, but found this episode interesting and hey I learned something about India & Pakistan that I never knew before.

APZonerunner said:
I like Love and Monsters.

except for the really tasteless blowjob joke

I didn't mind it either, not nearly as bad as everyone makes out. Interesting villain, while I'm not fond of the design, the idea behind it is horrifying (being adsorbed into another being forever and still being conscience throughout the process). The story is kinda heartbreaking and if not for the ending, would have been remembered a lot better.

Speaking of Love & Monsters, I wonder if they will try and do a Doctor Lite episode this season.

Immortan · Nov 11, 2018

Finally back on track, that was a damn fine episode filled with heart and wonder, the show is at its best when its like that and not dragging on about nothing.

part of me hoped her grandma would remember her from long ago, just as a little I'm glad you know my history moment. But it really didn't need it, just something I wanted to see.

Kinsei · Nov 11, 2018

That was a fantastic episode. It took a little bit to hook me, but once it did I was totally engrossed. I even teared up at the end.

APZonerunner · Nov 11, 2018

Worthintendo said:
Speaking of Love & Monsters, I wonder if they will try and do a Doctor Lite episode this season.

There's no need any more. The Doctor-lite episodes existed because as of Series 2 (2006), the BBC added one more episode to the production schedule (Christmas), but only two weeks of extra filming when an episode takes on average 4-5 weeks. So, basically, the idea was... while Love & Monsters was being made, it was 'double banked' with The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit, meaning there were two units out filming at the same time for two different episodes. This basically let them condense the schedule enough to squeeze an extra episode in.

It's really obvious in Series 2 (Love & Monsters) and Series 3 (Blink), but then they get clever about it... for series 4 they obviously split the Doctor and Donna up for Midnight & Turn Left, so those two were double-banked together. Series 5 didn't need one because the Christmas special attached was produced by the previous production crew, but then for Series 6 they repeated the S4 trick with The Girl Who Waited (which basically only has Smith on the TARDIS set - one day of shooting - it's really an Amy/Rory episode) and Closing Time... though they're structured in such a way that it feels less obvious than with Series 4.

Anyway, we haven't had a need for one since, sadly. Series 7 didn't need one because it was split across two years, allowing for the extra filming time... (one thing that's a slight missed opportunity is Moffat said had he had the need for another double-bank scenario he would've done a 'stand alone' River story, and while I was bloody sick of that character that could've been very interesting.) Capaldi's era shrank the schedule to 12 episodes, making for 13 total as opposed to 14. There's no need now it's only a 10-episode series... unless they want to do it for artistic reasons, but I can't see that - Whittaker is paid for, so they'll use her. Shame, really - the current crew might blossom in new ways without her, given how crowded it is and how often they feel squeezed out of episodes atm.

M.Bluth · Nov 11, 2018

Easily my favorite episode this season despite some rubbish acting and the annoying closeups that make everything seem so small when the whole point of going to locations and designing those expensive sets is to show them.
Great alien design, first alien this season that I thought was interesting story-wise, as well.

This and last week do make a good argument for going back to 45-ish minutes I think. I can see it would've benefited from slight cuts here and there just to make it tighter and that much better.

Overall, makes me more hopeful for the rest of the season now that we're set for a few non-Chibnall episodes at last.

PaulloDEC · Nov 11, 2018

Good episode. Bit dry at times, and once again Ryan had absolutely nothing of interest to say or do, but otherwise I enjoyed it.

Finaj · Nov 11, 2018

I'm starting to think while Moffat is a better writer, Chibnall might be a better showrunner, but it's probably still too early to tell.

But at least there's no bad season-long overarching plot to ruin the good solo episodes.

M.Bluth · Nov 11, 2018

PaulloDEC said:
Good episode. Bit dry at times, and once again Ryan had absolutely nothing of interest to say or do, but otherwise I enjoyed it.

I'm guessing we're getting a new TARDIS team for s12, and boy am I hoping they never do 3 companions ever again. 2 is fantastic. 3, there's just not enough time in 10 episodes a season.

Halbrand · Nov 11, 2018

I am happy to have never subjected myself to watching Love and Monsters

APZonerunner · Nov 11, 2018

Drewton said:
I am happy to have never subjected myself to watching Love and Monsters

You're missing out on a deeply flawed piece of television that simultaneously is one of the most interesting episodes of Doctor Who ever written in terms of having something to say (about friendships, loss, obsession and fandom). Like, I get people hate the monster and it was indeed literally designed by a seven year old, but there's a lot to that episode. Christ, the scenes with Jackie where you really see what she's like when Rose is gone and realize the extent to which Rose and the Doctor are unwittingly destroying her life are amazing. Speaking of Jackie...

M.Bluth said:
I'm guessing we're getting a new TARDIS team for s12, and boy am I hoping they never do 3 companions ever again. 2 is fantastic. 3, there's just not enough time in 10 episodes a season.

I think this crew is good, but they needed to really look at what RTD did with series 1 and think about it in that way. There should've been one companion - probably Ryan, really - then bring another one in later on for one or two episodes, then another. When you think about Series 1, think about the size of the roles Jackie and Mickey had without ever entering the TARDIS - and arguably those two characters had more development in Rose, Aliens of London/World War Three and Father's Day than Yaz and Ryan have had in six episodes actually in the TARDIS. It's mad, really, but it's just too crowded.

I honestly wonder - do we have three companions because of focus grouping? By which I mean - did somebody at the BBC look at the show (or did Chibnall pre-emptively weigh up his plans) and say... "Well, we need a spunky young woman because tradition. But also, y'know, we need an attractive young man..." (This especially in the wake of a perceived loss of a certain segment of the Tennant/Smith audience with Capaldi.) Certainly, I don't think Ryan would exist if the 13th Doctor had been a man. The way the characters are written, it feels like Graham is the companion he wanted to write.

Platy · Nov 11, 2018

That is an AWESOME alien concept, both on the idea/lore and the design

DangerMouse · Nov 11, 2018

JonathanEx said:
Bradley Walsh continues to shine.

Yeah. The Doctor herself and him are the best two.

This was way better than the last couple and I really quite liked the design for the aliens and when the Doctor was using their own stuff against them and rather liked how the reveal of their new purpose tied into the rest of the story's theme. They made for a pretty cool new alien. I also think this might have been the first one to feel like a full episode as I was hooked pretty much the whole time even if it appears to be pretty standalone. Next week's looks like a real "new monster" episode so maybe we're hitting a more interesting section of the season.

I also liked her finally getting to be properly more visibly defiant against the aliens when they started claiming she couldn't do anything against them and was interfering, like the other recent Doctors have gotten to do. We got a bit of that in the first ep but this time she really got to act on it after making the declaration and it was great.

Worthintendo said:
Good episode, I'm still missing the fantasy Sic Fi adventures aspect that Moffat really nailed, but found this episode interesting and hey I learned something about India & Pakistan that I never knew before.

Yeah.

PaulloDEC · Nov 11, 2018

Platy said:
That is an AWESOME alien concept, both on the idea/lore and the design

Agreed, one part of the episode they straight-up nailed.

DangerMouse · Nov 11, 2018

Platy said:
That is an AWESOME alien concept, both on the idea/lore and the design

Yeah, I loved everything about them.

Worthintendo · Nov 11, 2018

APZonerunner said:
There's no need any more. The Doctor-lite episodes existed because as of Series 2 (2006), the BBC added one more episode to the production schedule (Christmas), but only two weeks of extra filming when an episode takes on average 4-5 weeks. So, basically, the idea was... while Love & Monsters was being made, it was 'double banked' with The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit, meaning there were two units out filming at the same time for two different episodes. This basically let them condense the schedule enough to squeeze an extra episode in.

It's really obvious in Series 2 (Love & Monsters) and Series 3 (Blink), but then they get clever about it... for series 4 they obviously split the Doctor and Donna up for Midnight & Turn Left, so those two were double-banked together. Series 5 didn't need one because the Christmas special attached was produced by the previous production crew, but then for Series 6 they repeated the S4 trick with The Girl Who Waited (which basically only has Smith on the TARDIS set - one day of shooting - it's really an Amy/Rory episode) and Closing Time... though they're structured in such a way that it feels less obvious than with Series 4.

Anyway, we haven't had a need for one since, sadly. Series 7 didn't need one because it was split across two years, allowing for the extra filming time... (one thing that's a slight missed opportunity is Moffat said had he had the need for another double-bank scenario he would've done a 'stand alone' River story, and while I was bloody sick of that character that could've been very interesting.) Capaldi's era shrank the schedule to 12 episodes, making for 13 total as opposed to 14. There's no need now it's only a 10-episode series... unless they want to do it for artistic reasons, but I can't see that - Whittaker is paid for, so they'll use her. Shame, really - the current crew might blossom in new ways without her, given how crowded it is and how often they feel squeezed out of episodes atm.

The most I could see them doing would be an episode like Flatline, The Doctor is trapped in the TARDIS and is commanding the crew remotely trying to help them through a problem.

It's funny looking the recent services that the trend kinda become episode without the companions and just the Doctor, season 9 had both the Woman who Lived and Heaven Sent with just the Doctor and no Clara. As much as I love Jodie as the Doctor I don't think I'm ready to see her in an episode without the crew yet.

Dalek · Nov 11, 2018

That was tremendous. Really well done.

Speculation-we are going to see those aliens return in the finale in an unexpected heartbreaking scene.

Bengraven · Nov 11, 2018

Graham is life. Seriously don't hurt Graham, Chibnall.

Blader · Nov 11, 2018

That was a good episode, although the arc of the plot felt structured extremely similarly to Rosa.

Kino · Nov 12, 2018

I liked the episode. The more serious tone and visual direction worked really well with the story, and I definitely got a lump in my throat when Yaz was talking to her grandma at the end. I just wish we got to see a little more of her pov in this episode; it was an episode about her family and she had hardly any presence.

I have to say though, I'm enjoying the new season but it reminds me a little too much of Wishbone in the sense that the doctor and her crew are just kind of there to witness the events of the story. I'm ready to see some adventures where the doctor and her crew take an active role in an episode. I think that's what this series is really missing right now,

Dalek · Nov 12, 2018

Bengraven said:
Graham is life. Seriously don't hurt Graham, Chibnall.

I've got a bad feeling about this.

Charismagik · Nov 12, 2018

APZonerunner said:
You're missing out on a deeply flawed piece of television that simultaneously is one of the most interesting episodes of Doctor Who ever written in terms of having something to say (about friendships, loss, obsession and fandom). Like, I get people hate the monster and it was indeed literally designed by a seven year old, but there's a lot to that episode. Christ, the scenes with Jackie where you really see what she's like when Rose is gone and realize the extent to which Rose and the Doctor are unwittingly destroying her life are amazing. Speaking of Jackie...

I think this crew is good, but they needed to really look at what RTD did with series 1 and think about it in that way. There should've been one companion - probably Ryan, really - then bring another one in later on for one or two episodes, then another. When you think about Series 1, think about the size of the roles Jackie and Mickey had without ever entering the TARDIS - and arguably those two characters had more development in Rose, Aliens of London/World War Three and Father's Day than Yaz and Ryan have had in six episodes actually in the TARDIS. It's mad, really, but it's just too crowded.

I honestly wonder - do we have three companions because of focus grouping? By which I mean - did somebody at the BBC look at the show (or did Chibnall pre-emptively weigh up his plans) and say... "Well, we need a spunky young woman because tradition. But also, y'know, we need an attractive young man..." (This especially in the wake of a perceived loss of a certain segment of the Tennant/Smith audience with Capaldi.) Certainly, I don't think Ryan would exist if the 13th Doctor had been a man. The way the characters are written, it feels like Graham is the companion he wanted to write.

Finally, someone who appreciates LaM as much as me. One of my favorites

Nobody has done companion interaction in new Who like RTD. The tylers and mickey were brilliantly written

BrokenFiction · Nov 12, 2018

It's still bugging the hell out of me that we're getting a 16:9 crop.

milamber182 · Nov 12, 2018

Fantastic episode. Beautiful, emotional and heartbreaking. I'd rate it just above Rosa because the villian was more grounded.

Baroque · Nov 12, 2018

How did the Nan not realize that the Yaz she met looked exactly like her granddaughter Yaz?

milamber182 · Nov 12, 2018

Baroque said:
How did the Nan not realize that the Yaz she met looked exactly like her granddaughter Yaz?

It gave me pause as well but it was over 70 years ago and Yaz passed herself off as a relative back then so it's possible.

Psittacus · Nov 12, 2018

I feel sorry for Prem, who spent the whole episode wandering around being incredibly disappointed that all his friends wanted to violently bring about the ethnostate because the media told them to

Baroque · Nov 12, 2018

milamber182 said:
It gave me pause as well but it was over 70 years ago and Yaz passed herself off as a relative back then so it's possible.

I guess super old age does work. My gran can barely remember what she did last week.

mclem · Nov 12, 2018

mclem said:
It's just struck me: The next episode is going to go out on Remembrance Sunday; it'll be interesting to see if the episode captures Britain's hugely negative impact during the Partition, and - if they do pull no punches - if the likes of the more rabble-rousy papers get all "It's not PATRIOTIC to dare point out historical shames, on this, the most PATRIOTIC of days!".

So it turns out that this episode going out on Remembrance Sunday - given the underlying themes - seems entirely intentional. And while I agree with those who are saying it would work without the aliens in principle, I think their presence added to that point.

APZonerunner · Nov 12, 2018

Baroque said:
How did the Nan not realize that the Yaz she met looked exactly like her granddaughter Yaz?

Well, it was 70-odd years ago. The thing that actually threw me more was that the woman cast as the grandma is clearly in her seventies herself and doesn't look anywhere near old or frail enough to be the 90-odd she'd be now. Obviously time travel, but why would Yaz go and speak to an earlier, younger elderly version if her nan were still alive (and clearly she is as she always refers to her in the present tense). Though the episode sort of needed that end scene, really, and jobbing 90-year-olds are hard to find, so I get it.

Norwegian Rudo · Nov 12, 2018

Wonder if the Partition storyline was inspired by (BBC presenter) Anita Rani? She did one of those "where do you come from" shows and discovered that her grandfather had had a previous family that were all murdered during partition.

LL_Decitrig · Nov 12, 2018

milamber182 said:
It gave me pause as well but it was over 70 years ago and Yaz passed herself off as a relative back then so it's possible.

Not only possible, but likely. The young woman she met in 1947 spoke perfect Punjabi and was about her own age. Now everybody that age looks impossibly young to her. I'm only sixtyish but already people around 20 tend to look to me like characterless dolls.

LL_Decitrig · Nov 12, 2018

Psittacus said:
I feel sorry for Prem, who spent the whole episode wandering around being incredibly disappointed that all his friends wanted to violently bring about the ethnostate because the media told them to

As a Briton during Brexit, I think I have an inkling how he feels. West Indians are being deported after giving their entire productive lives to this country. Fascists are ranting about "the will of the people" and Parliament is going along with it.

Hamchan · Nov 12, 2018

Heck yeah. I said Rosa was the sort of episode I wanted from new Doctor Who and now this one continues the trend.

Handled a serious, historical moment well, teaching a good message to any kids watching, with a very personal, strong development for a companion.

Well done.

TheGamingNewsGuy · Nov 12, 2018

No way is Graham going to be a companion in Series 12 despite the fact i really like him (i would be surprised if the Season Finale wasn't his exit)

LL_Decitrig · Nov 12, 2018

TheGamingNewsGuy said:
No way is Graham going to be a companion in Series 12 despite the fact i really like him (i would be surprised if the Season Finale wasn't his exit)

I suppose it's inevitable, given the actor's commitments to other shows. We only got one series of Donna, too. I do think when you have a more mature, experienced actor on the show you get better performances and more memorable episodes. With the right younger actor (Jenna, for instance) you also get fun, it's just that older actors tend to have more to bring.

BrokenFiction · Nov 12, 2018

It would have been better if Nan had recognized Yaz and they had a shared secret about her time travel. That would have added stakes to the team instead of them being relatively untethered from home ties.

Xaszatm · Nov 12, 2018

BrokenFiction said:
It would have been better if Nan had recognized Yaz and they had a shared secret about her time travel. That would have added stakes to the team instead of them being relatively untethered from home ties.

But like logically, that makes no sense. Sure, they look alike but it's also 70 years ago. You don't just go "well, she looks like someone I met years ago, clearly the answer is time travel".

Sheepinator · Nov 12, 2018

Good ep, but again like the spider episode the ending fell flat. How does Nan not recognize that the group in her kitchen were the same people at her very small and very memorable wedding? Was there some indication of dementia that I missed? I thought Nan saying that her story about the watch would wait until Yaz was older was foreshadowing that she knew Yaz had been there and presumably the Doctor told her in 1947 to, "Give this watch to Yaz, but never speak to her about this until she knows".

Xaszatm · Nov 12, 2018

Sheepinator said:
Good ep, but again like the spider episode the ending fell flat. How does Nan not recognize that the group in her kitchen were the same people at her very small and very memorable wedding? Was there some indication of dementia that I missed? I thought Nan saying that her story about the watch would wait until Yaz was older was foreshadowing that she knew Yaz had been there and presumably the Doctor told her in 1947 to, "Give this watch to Yaz, but never speak to her about this until she knows".

Again, this is always a "plot hole" that never makes sense to me. People get deja vu all the time but you don't go "ah, this person must be a time traveler". Again, it's been 70 years. Any and all coincidences would be first chocked up to simply that: coincidences.

Dalek · Nov 12, 2018

Sheepinator said:
Good ep, but again like the spider episode the ending fell flat. How does Nan not recognize that the group in her kitchen were the same people at her very small and very memorable wedding? Was there some indication of dementia that I missed? I thought Nan saying that her story about the watch would wait until Yaz was older was foreshadowing that she knew Yaz had been there and presumably the Doctor told her in 1947 to, "Give this watch to Yaz, but never speak to her about this until she knows".

When did Nan see Team TARDIS in the present? They are not present at her birthday party.

I also just checked. She's not in Arachnids in the UK either. So this is not a plot hole.

BrokenFiction · Nov 12, 2018

Xaszatm said:
But like logically, that makes no sense. Sure, they look alike but it's also 70 years ago. You don't just go "well, she looks like someone I met years ago, clearly the answer is time travel".

That can be written around. This is fantasy, not logic. I just think it was missed opportunity for more storytelling.

mclem · Nov 12, 2018

Big Finish being gloriously self-indulgent for their 20th anniversary.

The Doctor's daughter who played The Doctor's Daughter - who then went on to marry The Doctor such that The Doctor was her father-in-law - is going to appear in Big Finish... with The Doctor.

Baroque · Nov 12, 2018

Xaszatm said:
But like logically, that makes no sense. Sure, they look alike but it's also 70 years ago. You don't just go "well, she looks like someone I met years ago, clearly the answer is time travel".

Am I weird for sometimes seeing people who look like older versions of my friends/family/myself out in public and thinking "Theyve come back in time to keep an eye on me."?

thefro · Nov 12, 2018

Good episode this week. Didn't like it as much as "Rosa" but it's the 2nd-best episode this series.

I enjoyed last week's as well, despite it having some of the same flaws as the other Chibnall-penned episodes.

BrokenFiction · Nov 12, 2018

mclem said:
Big Finish being gloriously self-indulgent for their 20th anniversary.

The Doctor's daughter who played The Doctor's Daughter - who then went on to marry The Doctor such that The Doctor was her father-in-law - is going to appear in Big Finish... with The Doctor.

Sheepinator · Nov 12, 2018

Dalek said:
When did Nan see Team TARDIS in the present? They are not present at her birthday party.

I also just checked. She's not in Arachnids in the UK either. So this is not a plot hole.

I never said Nan was in the spider ep.

Best case, it's a missed opportunity for more story telling. She's given Yaz the watch, says we'll talk about it when you're older, then sees Yaz's hands have the design on them. This is all a great setup for her to wink and say, "Thank you for being there." or something to indicate she knows, and obviously she's been keeping that secret. It's a perfect time to add some story there. A missed opportunity.

Doctor Who Series 11 |OT|- She’s Here, and It’s About Time

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