Today is Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts' 10th Anniversary

Salty Hippo said:

Great game and at the same time one of the most baffling, dumb decisions a developer has made in all of gaming history. MS still owes reparations for the bait and switch.

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When the game was teased in 2006, it didn't really exist at that point. There were various prototypes before N&B won out. People see a "bait and switch" where there wasn't one. The 2006 trailer was a vague teaser for the return of Banjo.

Compare that to Dinosaur Planet turning into Star Fox Adventures and 12 Tales turning into Bad Fur Day. Those games were revealed. Had gameplay footage. Then they turned into something very different.

Dr. Caroll said:

The game bears some similarities to Mario Artist: Polygon Studio for the N64, an open world game where you built vehicles and completed challenges.

Rare didn't want to make another stale collectathon. As a company they were always trying to innovate. Some Banjo fans seemingly wanted Rare to churn out obligatory, creatively bankrupt sequels. Which Rare have never been interested in doing.

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Again, Banjo fans wanting Rare to make something more faithful to the IP doesn't mean fans want something "creatively bankrupt" or that fans would accept the game if it was actually stale in execution.

Just look at Yooka Laylee for proof. A game that was designed to resemble its spiritual predecessors to a T. And this obviously turned out to work against the game as the reception to it was very lukewarm despite many people expecting it to be the "return of the true Rare" before release or whatever.

There's a middle ground. That's something that Rare doesn't seem to understand. They think that a sequel needs to be completely different from the original or it doesn't need to be made at all because it's just "stale" otherwise. Sigh..........This is why we haven't had a Banjo or Conker or Perfect Dark game in years. Rare is just out of touch with its fanbase.......or rather what's left of it.

Great vehicle construction system, great graphics, good music, huge worlds...but the wrong license.

There's very little Banjo in there actually, but what is there holds the game back narratively. You can't appreciate what's there because there are literally constant references to something else entirely. The side characters (new and old) are also given little to do, and Banjo/Kazooie themselves look ugly as sin.

N&B would've turned out better as an original IP. In fact, if Banjo had never been part of the equation, and the team had focused entirely on making the game its own thing, it might've even been something special ala Minecraft.

Since the transition from the original Xbox to the 360, Microsoft's first-party output has been seriously misguided. Even Halo has gone to the dogs.

For years I stood by this game as misunderstood and better than people gave it credit for but when it came to BC I replayed it and uhh...I was wrong. It's possible it just didn't age well but the physics were really annoying on most vehicles and the challenges were just boring typical stuff for the most part. The hub world is solid at least.

Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts released precisely 90 years after the end of World War I.

Makes you think.

LOVED this game. And I love the original. Tooie not so much. I can understand why this upset so many, but it's a really fun vehicle building game. Great music too. Built a working arwing in it!

After some initial frustration i had with this game i ended up having a lot of fun with it. Making your vehicles is really fun, i spent hours just exploring the creator mode, the music is amazing, the game is gorgeous and even the multiplayer was pretty good.

It wasn't what fans of the series wanted though. It's a real shame what Microsoft did with Banjo and the other Rare IPs, i don't see much hope for another Banjo game in the future, especially since Gregg has said he's not interested in developing a new game. :(

I never really ended up liking it, but it sure as hell gave one of my favourite YouTube videos ever.

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Is it really that hard for MS to remaster the original? Lik jeez they know ppl be fiendin for some Banjo.

Denryu said:

It wasn't what fans of the series wanted though. It's a real shame what Microsoft did with Banjo and the other Rare IPs, i don't see much hope for another Banjo game in the future, especially since Gregg has said he's not interested in developing a new game. :(

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Didn't he recently say he feels that he's got another platformer left in him before retirement and that he would make the game be designed more like the first game because he regrets making Tooie be as bloated as it was?

I didn't really get into back when it came out but I revisited it in 2014 and had a decent amount of fun. There really isn't any other game quite like it, at least that I know of. I give Rare credit for making such a unique title, even if it wasn't what a lot of Banjo fans wanted. I didn't play the Banjo-Kazooie or Tooie until 2009 and while I really like the first game, Tooie is too much of a chore for me. I definitely prefer N&B over it. I'd like to see Banjo return, but at this point not only does it seem unlikely, but the team at Rare that exists today probably would disappoint.

A fun youtuber named Panoots made a good video about N&B, coming away with the main conclusion that it's a great game hurt by having the Banjo license tied to it.

-shadow- said:

I never really ended up liking it, but it sure as hell gave one of my favourite YouTube videos ever.

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Oh, it's that half-assed video made by a white supremacist manchild that encouraged people to never look at this game from any standpoint other than pants-shitting-anger...

-shadow- said:

I never really ended up liking it, but it sure as hell gave one of my favourite YouTube videos ever.

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This video is a perfect distillation on why people have so much misdirected anger at a very, very good game

Burrman said:

Is it really that hard for MS to remaster the original?

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They remastered both games a decade ago.

Burrman said:

Is it really that hard for MS to remaster the original? Lik jeez they know ppl be fiendin for some Banjo.

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They already did in 2007 for the 360 (and you can play it on Rare Replay if you've got an Xbox One).

newmoneytrash said:

This video is a perfect distillation on why people have so much misdirected anger at a very, very good game

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Misdirected anger is something certain people like Jontron are known for.

Waddle Dee said:

Oh, it's that half-assed video made by a white supremacist manchild that encouraged people to never look at this game from any standpoint other than pants-shitting-anger...

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While that video did not help the game perception, let's not downplay the fact that the game was a huge controversy for Banjo and platformer fans ever since its release 4 years earlier.

Yeah but that guy made it more or less a meme to get irrationally angry at the game, even if you've never played it.

Denryu said:

It wasn't what fans of the series wanted though. It's a real shame what Microsoft did with Banjo and the other Rare IPs, i don't see much hope for another Banjo game in the future, especially since Gregg has said he's not interested in developing a new game. :(

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Because Rare are famously known for giving fans what they want.

Look at how little they cared about giving Donkey Kong Country fans what they wanted, as another example. DK64 is a pretty solid game, irritating minigames aside, but it was nothing like Donkey Kong Country. Overtly so. Of course Rare did have some sense of making games that people wanted to play, but they also had a deep sense of "We're gonna do whatever the hell we want" going on.

a Master Ninja said:

Optimizing your vehicle to not just beat the challenge times, but to almost cheat your way to victory felt incredible.

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This was a big part of my enjoyment. This ended up feeling like the best "Lego" game I ever played, and they got the tone/comedy of the original BK games across beautifully, on top of a ton of self-awareness about the series itself and the industry at large.

Waddle Dee said:

Yeah but that guy made it more or less a meme to get irrationally angry at the game, even if you've never played it.

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Let's be honest. People were both rationally and irrationally angry at the game before it was even released.

Fantastic game, but understandable backlash from the fan base.

Banjo Kazooie is legitimately one of my favorite games of all time, but I've come to the realization that it's (apparently) impossible to make a game as good to me as that game was, so I'm perfectly happy they went to a completely different genre with Nuts and Bolts.

-Banjo Tooie went way to large with the levels and overworld, making it a chore to navigate instead of a joy, and the objectives to get some of the Jiggies were insane unless you're using a guide (involving using abilities that are barely used in the game, or swapping between characters, or even moving between levels).
-Donkey Kong 64 famously went crazy (bananas?) with the collectibles and while I haven't played the game in years, remember it having similar problems that Tooie had with levels that were too large to be navigated easily.
-Yooka Laylee i contributed to the Kickstarter and bought again on Switch (on sale), and while it's pretty solid, it's overworld is super weak compared to BK1 (they had to patch in signs for where the levels are because the layout and design of it wasn't clear), and once you enlarge the levels they become just a little bit too big IMO. And I feel like the graphics miss a bit of the charm and cohesion that the original Banjo Kazooie games had (some of the characters just look weird, like he refrigerator lady, squid doctor, and the gum all machine duck). It nails the music at least!
-Honestly, I think the closest any game has gotten to how great BK1 was wasn't even a Rare game or a game made by the same people, but Mario Odyssey. It has the perfect size levels (fun to explore, easy to navigate, but plenty of secrets to make exploring fun), the main collectible is open ended like Banjo (no exiting the level and going back in to get another one), and it has something similar to BK transformations with the hat gimmick. Only thing stopping it from being full on Banjo is the lack of an explorable overworld, the unlockable moves, and that signature BK soundtrack.

While Nuts and Bolts may not have been what I was wanting, but I truely believe (especially looking back) that it was best new Banjo Kazooie game we could have gotten, outside of a graphical update to BK1. It's super fun, it's super creative, and it has some of my favorite characters in it. Honesty, I bet if this game had come out just a few years later (once Minecraft had exploded) I bet Nuts and Bolts would have done much MUCH better due to its vehicle creation aspect.

I'd honestly much rather have a sequel to Nuts and Bolts over a platformer Banjo Threeie. A straight remake of Banjo Kazooie (with nothing taken out) is the only Banjo game in the old platform we style that I'd be excited for. I just have no faith that anyone can duplicate what makes me love Banjo Kazooie.

Mass Effect said:

It's still a good game. I had a ton of fun with it.



You know what other game has too many haters?

Yooka-Laylee.

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Probably, I don't hate it, I had a bit of fun with it but it was nowhere near as good as BK or BT, which I was expecting.

Great game. Got it day one, along the remaster of the first game as a preorder bonus. Loved the building aspect, as it reminded me a bit of Legos. You could built basic vehicles, awesome multifunction ones, or just plain but exagerated ones to make things easier. Still remember one of the missions to grab some ball enemies thingies...I ended making thing long cagelike vehicle just to put them all inside at once. XD

The game is a lot of fun when you just build silly things, thinking like a kid that wants to get stuff done; rather than the cool looking ones many of us try to make at first.

Dr. Caroll said:

When the game was teased in 2006, it didn't really exist at that point. There were various prototypes before N&B won out. People see a "bait and switch" where there wasn't one. The 2006 trailer was a vague teaser for the return of Banjo.

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It was deceptive at the very least.

Imagine we get a trailer for Conker running around a beautiful 3D world at E3 2019.

Then the game comes out and it's an isometric strategy game...

People would be pissed.

The fact is they didn't want to make another Banjo game (and still don't) but they had this idea about vehicles and sacrificed the Banjo IP to realise it.

They actually thought of just remaking the first game or making a new game with traditional platforming but passed on these ideas despite the fact both would've gone over WAY better.

I just hope a dev with passion for the series can give it one last gasp.

It's one of my favorite games! Definitely ahead of its time with its emergent user-generated solutions.

I'd give my left leg for a sequel (Banjo themed / or not).

What a bummer.

I'd give it another chance if it got Xbox One X enhanced.

Betty said:

Imagine we get a trailer for Conker running around a beautiful 3D world at E3 2019.

Then the game comes out and it's an isometric strategy game...

People would be pissed.

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Funny that you mention Conker.
They actually did something like that, but even worse.



"I'm back."

No you're f'n not!

Glad to see that I'm not the only one who loved this game. Was my favorite for that year and had a blast with the different vehicles.

Of course I wanted a proper Banjo 3, but Nuts & Bolts is amazing.

elektrixx said:

I'd give it another chance if it got Xbox One X enhanced.

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I'd love to see that happen. When I originally played it on XB1, there was an odd shadow glitch (on top of the original resolution), but I think that's at least been patched.

Thinking about how much people still love Viva Pinata today, yes, definitely, If they did that game with another new IP instead of Banjo, then people would've absolutely loved that and it would be another Rare Classic today.

Edge said:

Funny that you mention Conker.
They actually did something like that, but even worse.



"I'm back."

No you're f'n not!

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I'd forgotten about this, I only remembered that holo lens abomination version of Conker.

Dr. Caroll said:

They remastered both games a decade ago.

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Sorry I meant remake

Burrman said:

Sorry I meant remake

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A Crash Bandicoot style remake would be incredible. Absolute insane and mind boggling that Microsoft hasn't done that or more, that this has not been yet commissioned. Heads should roll for stuff like that, I'm 100% confident that this would get more hype than the Crash remake ever got (and for sure more than Spyro). Announce this in the same style with first scenes and THAT iconic music in the background and the internet will flip out. The hype would be massive and it would be a little system seller even. 100%.

This game was one of the worst hype whip-lashes I've ever had. I bought a 360 since I was so incredibly hyped for a new Banjo, then got the rug pulled from under me.

However, once I was able to get over my grievances with the game, I actually love Nuts and Bolts. It isn't the Banjo game I wanted, but on its own merits it is an incredibly creative and charming game. I think it's too bad about the legacy it has, because in my opinion it's one of the best games Rare made after the acquisition by Microsoft. Getting this and Trouble in Paradise within months of each other was a pretty good end to the Rare I grew up a fan of.

newmoneytrash said:

This video is a perfect distillation on why people have so much misdirected anger at a very, very good game

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A "very very good game" based on what objective standards? People can be perfectly happy with N&B and judge it as a great game, but you can't just say that the anger was "misguided." N&B has some fundamental issues (repetitive mission structures, a large and empty world, balance issues with regards to the way cars can be built and break the game) and the fact that its marketing back then was pointing people towards a Banjo-Threeie, N&B in comparison was a complete surprise and not what people were expecting, to the point that it was deceptive. It also doesn't help that the intro section of the game seems to be more interested in laughing at its own legacy, which is a surefire way to piss off people who were incredibly attached to the series.

Doesn't really sound like misguided at all.

MegaManTrigger said:

A "very very good game" based on what objective standards? People can be perfectly happy with N&B and judge it as a great game, but you can't just say that the anger was "misguided." N&B has some fundamental issues (repetitive mission structures, a large and empty world, balance issues with regards to the way cars can be built and break the game) and the fact that its marketing back then was pointing people towards a Banjo-Threeie, N&B in comparison was a complete surprise and not what people were expecting. It also doesn't help that the intro section of the game seems to be more interested in laughing at its own legacy, which is a surefire way to piss off people who were incredibly attached to the series.

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If you watch the Panoots video, it addresses/recognizes a lot of those exact points.

Fantastic under appreciated gem of a game, I loved the concept and most of the execution. While it certainly wasn't what people wanted from a new Banjo game, it certainly was a fresh breath of air.

The one that killed any new Banjo-Kazooie any time soon OTL

Pop-O-Matic said:

They bought Rare thinking they'd get the rights to Donkey Kong, but when that didn't turn out to be the case they decided to just slowly killed the company instead.

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Lmao imagine thinking this was true.

Gartooth said:

This game was one of the worst hype whip-lashes I've ever had. I bought a 360 since I was so incredibly hyped for a new Banjo, then got the rug pulled from under me.

However, once I was able to get over my grievances with the game, I actually love Nuts and Bolts. It isn't the Banjo game I wanted, but on its own merits it is an incredibly creative and charming game. I think it's too bad about the legacy it has, because in my opinion it's one of the best games Rare made after the acquisition by Microsoft. Getting this and Trouble in Paradise within months of each other was a pretty good end to the Rare I grew up a fan of.

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Don't fancy Sea of Thieves much, I take it? I'm at least glad that they're back to making games that aren't Kinect, but I just wish they would care more about their legacy IPs and that their level of output would at least resemble their early 360 era. 1 game every 4 years is just not cool.

NotLiquid said:

It's also silly to claim that Rare "always does new things" when before Sea of Thieves the only notable games they were putting out were iterations upon iterations of Kinect Sports.

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That's kind the point, though. Rare wanted to make Kinect games. which is why they dropped everything and played around with Kinect for a few years. For them, Kinect was a bold new thing. Each new Kinect Sports title added a bunch of new sports. (They were going for a proto-GaaS model with seasons.) The development model is not comparable here. You're basically saying that adding a whole bunch of new genres to a game year after year is "iterations". It's a bit more drastic than that.

NotLiquid said:

To use it as a catch-all to excuse that Nuts and Bolts was a pretty misguided choice that didn't really work out doesn't really work, and it's not like Rare didn't do iterative sequels anyway during the Microsoft era with games like Viva Piñata. Nuts and Bolts is fine but you don't need to come up with contrived excuses for why it is the way it is.

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Viva Pinata was a special case. It was a Pocket PC game that was remade for Xbox 360. (And then the unreleased Pocket PC version was adapted for DS.) Highly experimental gameplay. They made a single proper sequel. You know why they have refused to make any more Viva Pinata games? Because in their opinion the series belongs on something like the Pocket PC. They flat-out refuse to make a new Viva Pinata for Xbox One. Period. Case closed. Not happening, ever. They don't care how much people want Viva Pinata. Not happening.

NotLiquid said:

The company dug out a decade old IP because it might sell, and retooled it based on market research around "modern expectations" and how "platformers are outdated".

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That's completely untrue. Gregg Mayles does not want to make another traditional Banjo-style game. Banjo is his baby, and he decides what happens to the series. Traditional Banjo would sell, but he doesn't want to make that game. The only way it would happen is if he receive a pitch that was bold and fresh and he liked. It's why he made Sea of Thieves. Because that's the game he wanted to make. That's what happens when you give developers creative freedom like Microsoft have done. They're under no obligation to make games "for the fans" so to speak. They can just waddle around doing whatever the hell they want.

Edge said:

A Crash Bandicoot style remake would be incredible. Absolute insane and mind boggling that Microsoft hasn't done that or more, that this has not been yet commissioned. Heads should roll for stuff like that, I'm 100% confident that this would get more hype than the Crash remake ever got (and for sure more than Spyro). Announce this in the same style with first scenes and THAT iconic music in the background and the internet will flip out. The hype would be massive and it would be a little system seller even. 100%.

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Your right. It boggles my mind. Make it a 40$ game and it'll sell a shitload. Even a bunch of consoles too.

I'll still never forgive Rare and Microsoft for this shitty game. I'll be 100 years old and still be just as pissed off. I legitimately and thoroughly hate nearly everything about it. In fact, it's the only game I've ever actually resented. I hate that it exists. I wish it didn't. I would honestly erase this travesty from existence if I could and give us Banjo Threeie instead.

I'm not even kidding, joking or trolling in the slightest. I honestly loathe this title, so much. Fuck this game into oblivion.

I bought it on release and couldn't get into it and I tried a couple more times during the generation. When the Rare collection came out I decided to try again, but the frame rate was so bad it made me not want to play. Maybe if the released an X patch to fix the frame rate I would give it another try.

One of my favourite games of last generation. I'd love there to be a sequel, but I don't see it happening. :(

MegaManTrigger said:

A "very very good game" based on what objective standards? People can be perfectly happy with N&B and judge it as a great game, but you can't just say that the anger was "misguided." N&B has some fundamental issues (repetitive mission structures, a large and empty world, balance issues with regards to the way cars can be built and break the game) and the fact that its marketing back then was pointing people towards a Banjo-Threeie, N&B in comparison was a complete surprise and not what people were expecting, to the point that it was deceptive. It also doesn't help that the intro section of the game seems to be more interested in laughing at its own legacy, which is a surefire way to piss off people who were incredibly attached to the series.

Doesn't really sound like misguided at all.

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Of course it being good is subjective, what do you get out of challenging that lmao

You can dislike nuts and bolts but that particular video is symbolic of the entire shit slinging that goes on around this game because people get rabid that it isn't what it was so they can't see what it is

-PXG- said:

I'll still never forgive Rare and Microsoft for this shitty game. I'll be 100 years old and still be just as pissed off. I legitimately and thoroughly hate nearly everything about it. In fact, it's the only game I've ever actually resented. I hate that it exists. I wish it didn't. I would honestly erase this travesty from existence if I could and give us Banjo Threeie instead.

I'm not even kidding, joking or trolling in the slightest. I honestly loathe this title, so much. Fuck this game into oblivion.

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Like this guy

OP, your post captures my feelings precisely.

I was so excited for a new Banjo. Having actively followed the Rare Witch Project back in the day, I had really bled the first two Banjo games to death and was craving more. The trailer in your post is *exactly* what I wanted: more Banjo. It didn't have to be anything radically different; just more of the same.

When they finally unveiled the game I was crushingly disappointed. But I held onto hope that there would still be Banjo-like segments given that you had the ability to free roam and there was a lot of talk about being able to play the game "as you like." Finally as the demo was released, I exhausted the Banjo-like gameplay such as by scaling buildings and trying to explore every nook and cranny of the hub world on-foot.

I bought the game day-one, knowing exactly what I was in for but still naïvely holding onto hope. It was probably my most disappointing day-one purchase ever. Though it has its flaws, the game is not a bad by any stretch of the imagination. It's actually very imaginative and fun and I'm sure there are many people who got a lot of enjoyment out of it. But personally, it was just a constant reminder of what I wanted and what could have been but never was. The whole game was full of constant teasing and belittling fans of Banjo (and the platforming genre in general) as if the game I (and I'm sure many others) wanted simply wasn't worth making. As if the developers had moved on and were big boy now, but we had and were not.

In all, the game felt pretty disrespectful and left a very sour taste in my mouth. It pissed me off to the degree that I have avoided Rare and Xbox ever since, despite owning an OG Xbox and (obviously) 360. I know it may sounds sound petty, but that's just how it is.

Saying all that, if Microsoft announced a new Banjo game, I know I'll make the leap and buy whatever needs to be bought to play it as intended as soon as it is available. I wouldn't be able to help myself. I just need more.

UmbriaPauly said:

As a massive banjo fan, is it a good thing I never played this, or a stupid thing?

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Stupid is a strong word, but I think that you should definitely play it. Not only is it a great game in its own right, it gets the humour right, and there's still some fun platforming and exploration to be had in the hub world, even if you don't like the vehicle challenges. You already know it's not a traditional platformer, just approach it with different expectations, and you might find it entertaining.

Betty said:

It was deceptive at the very least.

Imagine we get a trailer for Conker running around a beautiful 3D world at E3 2019.

Then the game comes out and it's an isometric strategy game...

People would be pissed.

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Right. Remember when the next 3D platforming Rayman was announced, with actual gameplay footage being shown, and then the game turned into a Rabbids party game? Some people were disappointed, but the game never got anywhere near the same amount of hate that Nuts & Bolts did. The same is true for Viva Pinata: Party Animals, fans of the original don't hate that game, they just ignore it. There are numerous other examples.

Teggy said:

I bought it on release and couldn't get into it and I tried a couple more times during the generation. When the Rare collection came out I decided to try again, but the frame rate was so bad it made me not want to play. Maybe if the released an X patch to fix the frame rate I would give it another try.

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The game could do with an X patch, but the performance problems were fixed ages ago, the BC version runs perfectly fine now.

loved the game when it first came out, couldn't realy get into it trying it again. Think it's one of a kind. The terrarium is kind of torture though.


Loved the 'whhh-yyyyy' noise whenever you beat a TT record~