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Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,251
Also lol @ at the people who keep going "that's from the Dancing game, not Persona 5!!!" as if it isn't literally developed by the same people for the same audience
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,477
From what I've seen it's one of the reasons many of them enjoy it so much, yes.

I mean, you guys can keep defending it all you want, it's no skin off my back - but it's not gonna stop you guys being seen as weird by most people.

Lol I didn't even date anyone on this game.

It was critically acclaimed by a lot of factors - gameplay, music, visuals, etc. - like the other Persona (and SMT) games. I think "most people" can see it.
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,887
"The most loyal and hardcore fans of this franchise are primarily grown ass adults" does not actually make it sound better.
That's not really what that means. The most hardcore of Persona fans were not necessarily the ones picking up the issue of Dengeki PlayStation where the questionnaire was in, or the ones filling out the survey.
 

MrConbon210

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,646
Ah yes Ann the girl who didnt want to be sexualized and has an ongoing joke where her attire is incredibly sexualized and her dislike of it

"For now, I just want to keep improving, one step at a time. That someday down the line, I'll be able to look at myself with pride. Hopefully people will see that confidence, and draw strength from it. I'm gonna be a ray of light for the people of this planet..."

One of the quotes Ann says in her social link. Her whole charecter arc is her embracing her beauty and not letting people view her as just a doll.

Her outfit is inspired by an anime Ann watched, in which she admired a "sexy" villain who was strong and confident, and took whatever she wanted whenever she wanted.

I think you just missed the point of her charecter man.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,617
Yeah, I've noticed it's weird.
The age rating in the US is older than the main cast.

A simple move to college would carry a lot of the same themes and gameplay without being as creepy.
 
Apr 19, 2018
3,955
Germany
Lol yep. We wouldn't in the UK either. I'm assuming that OP is from the USA. The pseudo moralism of US culture when it comes to teen sexuality is really just an excuse to push conservative Christian values. Just look at the moral panic surrounding SKINS in the US.

Pretty much, just a few days ago i had a conversation with somebody from the US and that person was completely baffled that the age of consent here in Germany is 14.
 

XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,895
Its made for teenagers and, just like shooting people in an FPS, is not a 1:1 translation of real life wants, needs or desires.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
It is weird if one of the characters whole thing is getting assaulted by her gym teacher when I see a lot of Persona threads normally devolve into adults talking about who "best girl" is...
I'm waiting for an anime/video game to create another situation like this (guy portrayed as bad objectifying the same girl the audience objectifies) and just hold up a mirror to the audience, you know? Call them out.
 

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,690
You play as a HS student dont you? He even sort of has a personality this time. The primary demographic is teens too I assume. At least going by the corny dialogue.
Even if you find the game geared towards teens, the problematic aspects of the relationships still remain.

I will however say that I have yet to meet someone in my life or online who has played this game who is under the age of 20.
Me, im 17.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,807
The part of the game where you can get into a relationship with an adult is problematic

But I do not see the inherent problem as your character is a teenager, the bigger issue is the sexualization of those teenagers in some of the spin off media, and the game itself and some of the games more problematic elements. But on its face, having a game where you play as a teenager in highschool and can go on dates... is fine
 

PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
Ah yes Ann the girl who didnt want to be sexualized and has an ongoing joke where her attire is incredibly sexualized and her dislike of it

You're actually right in this case, but this is post is also proof that you're not really willing to argue in good faith. Like it's clear to me you're less concerned with you're more interested in denigrating P5 than arguing your initial point, which is fair, but most of us have worked past our "P5 is really problematic" phases months ago. It's a dead horse.

It has been fucking hilarious seeing all the crying on the internet as Sony is feeling shame and having to censor some of the weeb shit releasing on the PS4. Then you get grown men crying over it.

Persona 5 is a shit game as well.

There are a lot of grown men making ridiculous, embarrassing posts about the Sony censorship fiasco. That's absolutely true.

I think this part of your post falls under that same category, however. You're not really making any valid points, and you seem to think Sony's "scorched earth" approach to censoring some PS4 games is completely ideal.
 

MrConbon210

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,646
Pretty sure you could have showed that in plenty of ways other than running through a sauna, while a teenage girl is just wearing a bikini and dancing seductively.


Actually I remembered it wrong and the Rise dungeon was the strip club instead of the sauna. Only makes it worse though so whatever

The guy Kanji had the Sauna dungeon because it delt with his sexuality but okay.

the strip club is created because of the two conflicting personalities Riseheld. One is the teenage idol side of her that she shows in her television and stage performances, while the other is the polite, soft-spoken girl. She has a hard time searching for her true self, which spawned the dungeon as a striptease club.
 

TheRealDennis

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
72
Germany
Which makes totally sense in that case since she was a famous idol at that age and ads with bikini/swimsuit for magazines or TV are normal, even for teenagers (not even counting gravure idols that don't actually have a idol career). The abnormal would be Rise not doing those things in this representation of her job.
Yeah dancing on a strip pole is just a normal job for 15 year old girls haha. You are so right.
 

Milk

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,802
It's... an RPG?

A role playing game?

You role play Joker and navigate your dating from there?
 

Deleted member 4037

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,989
Also lol @ at the people who keep going "that's from the Dancing game, not Persona 5!!!" as if it isn't literally developed by the same people for the same audience
except they are different teams working on different genres, citing a thing that was never in the game in which the op was criticizing

hell, most fans dont like the dancing games specifically cause it loses what they like in P5 characters
 

Phamit

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,940
Weren't the Twilight actors like 28 year olds "acting" as teens? Considering it's real actors it doesn't concern as much. Most of the girls/women lusting after those actors do it for the actors themselves.
Stewart was 18 when the first one released, lautber 17, Pattinson 22. They were about one year younger when they started filming.
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,423
Chicago
They would lose a big chunk of fans if the next game has an adult cast. Life in Japan is already cruel, and lifeless to most Japanese people, why would they want to experience that in Persona.

It is the reason why teenagers are the main characters in most media, as they are consider the golden years for most people their.

Did Catherine bomb? Is it not getting a remaster? I don't think it's that bad of an idea when they are making Persona dance games and stuff.

Not sure why'd they be so focused on sales if they can make their HD debut with a game like Catherine. Using a style similar to the Persona games and it being a bit of a social game wrapped up in a puzzle game. Japanese work life is cruel yes, 9-5's suck here in America as well, and we all play these games for an escape. When I played P3-5 I wasn't really reminded too much about HS life when I was busy fighting demons and shit.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think an adult theme Persona is such a crazy risk. I know they know their demographic better than I ever will, but Persona isn't some back burner franchise, I'd say it's pretty established by now. They should be looking to break a lot of the tropes in Japanese media... I think it's limiting to subscribe to these same rules for so long. P5 alone had so many moments that just didn't make sense for a teenager to be and the pretty high school themed gift wrapping doesn't really cover how they dropped the ball there.
 

FlintSpace

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,817
"For now, I just want to keep improving, one step at a time. That someday down the line, I'll be able to look at myself with pride. Hopefully people will see that confidence, and draw strength from it. I'm gonna be a ray of light for the people of this planet..."

One of the quotes Ann says in her social link. Her whole charecter arc is her embracing her beauty and not letting people view her as just a doll.

Her outfit is inspired by an anime Ann watched, in which she admired a "sexy" villain who was strong and confident, and took whatever she wanted whenever she wanted.

I think you just missed the point of her charecter man.
I was just about to write something of this sort. Also I remember that character claiming she liked modeling because it made her feel closer to that world where her parents spent most of their time. (Dialogue around palace 2)
 

PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
The answer is "whichever position is most convenient for me to take at the time when I want to justify not only why I do not personally like the game but why it is in fact morally problematic for anyone to enjoy it"

See also: this is a dumb game for children when it is time for me to criticize the childish plot and cringey writing, but it is squarely targeted at adults when I want to accuse fans of being pedophiles

Bang on
 

funky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,527
Is the "dating" in Persona 5 anything more then a single scene of soppy dialogue near the end of the game like it was in P4?
 

Deleted member 35077

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
3,999
Yeah, I've noticed it's weird.
The age rating in the US is older than the main cast.

A simple move to college would carry a lot of the same themes and gameplay without being as creepy.
A simple move, yes, but one a majority of the customers would hate. Adult life already is already view badly in Japan, and one most people don't want to experience in their games. Even on manga targeted at adults, seinen, teenage protagonist are a norm.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
On a tangent :
wow that survey thing throw some interesting stats,
Gender (P5 Buyers among Magazine readership)
  • 56.5% of people buying Persona 5 are male
  • 43.5% of people buying Persona 5 are female
I had no idea japan had a neck to neck female player count. Good for them.

Female are a big part of gaming in japan, much like in anime and manga be it for products focusing on them or to male buyers. Even the so called otaku which are the ones who buys many of the products in Japan are comprised by a neck to neck percentage.

・そう思う:42.2% (female)
・そうは思わない:57.8% (male)

https://web.archive.org/web/20130703184904/http://news.mynavi.jp/news/2013/04/27/076
 

Neo0mj

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,273
maxresdefault.jpg


Just adding fire to the sexualization of children here

Also have some numbers on the player ages ill add to the OP in a bit. Majority of players are between 20-29

Jesus Christ are these things disgusting. Can't get any more blatant with who you're targeting.
 

MrConbon210

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,646
Like what? Please if you have an argument give it to me

The fact that you're a tennager dating other teenagers in the game and is completely optional?

The teenager dating adults is creepy yes. But there's nothing weird teenager having relationships with people his age.

Adults can still read YA books like Twilight and root for if they want Team Jacob or Team Edward without them saying that they are sexualized by either one.

I think Makoto is the best romance option in Persona 5. However I'm gay and have no interest in that relationship in reality. I just think it's the right fit for the MC.
 

TheRealDennis

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
72
Germany
The guy Kanji had the Sauna dungeon because it delt with his sexuality but okay.

the strip club is created because of the two conflicting personalities Riseheld. One is the teenage idol side of her that she shows in her television and stage performances, while the other is the polite, soft-spoken girl. She has a hard time searching for her true self, which spawned the dungeon as a striptease club.
I already edited my post before you replied but okay. It doesn't matter what the point is behind it, because no entertainment medium should show you 15 year old girls dancing around strip poles. But if you don't see anything wrong with that there is no point in arguing with you anyway, because you clearly have some issues then.
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,887
I get what you're saying, but I don't think an adult theme Persona is such a crazy risk. I know they know their demographic better than I ever will, but Persona isn't some back burner franchise, I'd say it's pretty established by now. They should be looking to break a lot of the tropes in Japanese media... I think it's limiting to subscribe to these same rules for so long. P5 alone had so many moments that just didn't make sense for a teenager to be and the pretty high school themed gift wrapping doesn't really cover how they dropped the ball there.
The sales for Persona 2: Eternal Punishment have probably scared them from even thinking about doing a mainline Persona game revolving around adults for a long, long time.
 

Murkas

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
614
There's a large collection of 20+ year olds on this forum arguing about how much 14-16 year olds are wank material. If not characters that look even younger.

The amount of bans handed out for sexualizing minors is off the charts on this forum. Same goes for topics needing to be locked to save the forum the embarrassment of its userbase jumping up and down discussing paedo shit in anime/games. It's just drawings and they aren't real! Jokes about anime aside, which most people can take on the chin, there are a lot of sick fucks on the internet and some on this forum. Was the same on GAF.

To argue the Persona characters in the game are around the same age is one thing, but the teacher dynamic is creepy as fuck. That shits illegal in most places. The further issue becomes the fact whatever age the characters are of in of themselves, the players who drool over them are usually a fair bit older. 15/16 year olds dating each other, yeah great, nothing really wrong with that. A 28 year old getting their socks off over 15/16 year olds, starting to yikes a bit there.

I love Life is Strange. It has a romance element with a youngish set of lead characters. I did not get excited/turned on about said characters and the romance was handled pretty well in most instances. Most Japanese games don't do romance, they do cheap sexualization.

It has been fucking hilarious seeing all the crying on the internet as Sony is feeling shame and having to censor some of the weeb shit releasing on the PS4. Then you get grown men crying over it.

Persona 5 is a shit game as well.


AKSHUALLY, it's ephebophilia so you're wrongggggg and it's now totally ok!

*tips fedora*
 

Deleted member 5864

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,725
User Warned: Avatar shaming
Pretty sure you could have showed that in plenty of ways other than running through a sauna, while a teenage girl is just wearing a bikini and dancing seductively.
They could, but that way they can't have their cake and eat it too. Funny how it's a conveniently built in excuse that anime avatars are quick to point out, so then they can go to a different thread and list their waifus in order of preference guilt free, because it's a thoughtful "realistic representation" and not pandering or objectification aimed squarely at them.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
If you're going to call people degenerates for questionable choices made in a video game there's a few more pressing concerns you should probably address given the actions your character takes in regards to this game and other morally questionable acts people can do in others.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Futaba is particularly super creepy because not only does she look much younger than 15, she's also emotionally withdrawn and immature in many senses. She looks and acts 12 at most. Even within the context of widespread Japanese game creepyness, and previous Persona games, I was downright shocked she was a potential love interest as well.
 

Blackage

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,182
User Banned (1 month) Dismissing child sexualization.
Won't someone think of the virtual children?
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
You're actually right in this case, but this is post is also proof that you're not really willing to argue in good faith. Like it's clear to me you're less concerned with you're more interested in denigrating P5 than arguing your initial point, which is fair, but most of us have worked past our "P5 is really problematic" phases months ago. It's a dead horse.



There are a lot of grown men making ridiculous, embarrassing posts about the Sony censorship fiasco. That's absolutely true.

I think this part of your post falls under that same category, however. You're not really making any valid points, and you seem to think Sony's "scorched earth" approach to censoring some PS4 games is completely ideal.

If it's 14-16 year old (or younger) panty shots then I approve of Sony cleaning that up a bit for a Western release.

Even Steam has apparently been kicking off some of those visual novels where underage characters actually get fucked if not raped (because you know in a good visual novel it has to be rape or implied rape).
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
except they are different teams working on different genres, citing a thing that was never in the game in which the op was criticizing

hell, most fans dont like the dancing games specifically cause it loses what they like in P5 characters
Yeah, I'd argue that the audience they're targeting with the spin offs is actually a small part of the main demographic.
 
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