Do you feel like its the same thing? I dont. A playable character in a fighting game who you can only beat up in the same cartoony capacity as other playable characters is a little different than murdering someone campaigning for human rights.
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Motherboard: RDR2 Players Are Excited to Attack and Kill Feminists in the Game [update: re-instated]
- Thread starter vestan
- Start date
Let's just say that they didn't have that NPC in the game or the KKK. What could Rockstar do about that "Deporting a Mexican" video? Not have any Mexican characters in the game?
Of course it's the same thing.
People will use whatever they can to get their horrible little messages across.
You keep trying to blame Rockstar for this when you can do something very similar with any number of games. It's not about killing NPC's but rather how this stupid little fucker chooses to frame those actions, specifically as anti-feminist.
The irony is that Rockstar is taking flak because they actually inserted Sufferage NPC's and even a playable mission to help the movement, which is actually pretty goddamn cool despite this type of exploitation.
But you can hit or kill people in all open world games, whats your point?
Actually, the 'solution' would be to take out the Sufferage content which would more than likely make Alt-Right shitheads like this guy incredibly happy.
Most people understand the context and nobody is labelling a video primarily with intent to display "Chinese woman gets hit" for a street fighter video which is a series that does play on stereotypical tropes yet also represents characters from different sex and sexual orientation and backgrounds all as more than capable at fighting and defending themselves
The comparison is disingenuous by a manner of several degrees
A video specifically labelled as bring black man to KKK and with intent to play out that scenario is not remotely the same thing as any number of typical street fighter videos and anyone with common sense can discriminate between the two
Horribly thought out comparison though I can see many foolish people thinking that makes any sense
Just took the time to report this dude.
Like holy shit, he got axed once and then Youtube has an oopsie and gives him back his channel only for him to double down on this awful shit.
To me it clearly comes over as him thinking he can get away with anything now.
Like holy shit, he got axed once and then Youtube has an oopsie and gives him back his channel only for him to double down on this awful shit.
To me it clearly comes over as him thinking he can get away with anything now.
What the actual fuck is this shit
What is wrong with this guy? Jesus.
The point is that most of the controversy comes not from the action but rather how he chose to frame it. (Killing annoying feminists)
So I would argue that the analogy is fair because again, the controversy comes not from the content but rather how that content was shown with a clear, anti-feminist intent.
He's probably a racist piece of shit and this game's freedoms allow him to demonstrate that to the rest of us.
My instinct is to kill every single one of those Klansman fucks, not try and bring them a prize. (Which doesn't work regardless)
Views, after the ban he is now marching towards 1M subs, those videos are bringing him thousands of dollars in cash.
You all just helped him getting famous, his channel was barely growing months ago now has exploded.
Why not invincible? The realism doesnt allow you to kill everyone anyway.
If we're going after platform holders, why not hold the game makers responsible? They made a game where you can do anything, and they are most certainly aware of what was going to happen.
I was going to make a thread about certain films, but R*'s level of success is appropriate for the scenario as well.
The question is: "You have a billion dollar entertainment product, BUT half of your audience range from a bit to extremely sexist, racist, misogynistic, etc. Would you entertain the that half for a half a billion dollars, or ignore them completely?"
The popular sentiment on ERA and everywhere else is to deplatform those Social Media Creators and unfriend anyone that subscribes to them. Yet no publically traded company will let you give up a guaranteed $500 million dollars.
I can respect R*'s extreme expression of freedom in videogame environments, but they are also profiting from the dark side of that same freedom. YouTube creator profits, YouTube itself profits, R* profits in money AND word of mouth but are somehow shielded from what their users do.
I don't ask this lightly. I'm a big fan of what R* and other massive entertainment creators try to do. But it seems that they'll just take their money from anywhere while ignoring the negative impact their product has on their massive audiences.
GTAV didn't get 100 million sales from selling to adults alone. ADULTS might, MIGHT, be able to absorb and respect the material to not make videos specifically about killing minorities and women. They MIGHT be able to tell videogames apart from reality. They have the power to be responsible, but are still susceptible to not exercising it. A videogame lets a person escape their responsibilities.
Kids are not responsible for the content in whatever popular game they play. Parents can be responsible but kids live in a world where the #1 videogame in the world allows you to kill anyone for any reason. It's so popular that they'll hear about it from other kids. They can watch it on YouTube and social media. They can get a form of GTA on every single platform (besides a Nintendo one ;_;) including phones.
No, kids are not sexist, racist, or misogynistic yet but the #1 videogame in the world can encourage those views, even if it doesn't literally reward you for it. Killing an NPC for ironic or unironic reasons can get tied to the feeling of being entertained. Let those kids play the #1 videogame in the world everyday or week and it adds up. They don't even have to play it, the most extreme gameplay is on Social Media. It takes 1 Like to reward a content creator to make more of the same content.
And it's not the content creator's fault. They just take the money.
I'm not sure what the answer is. Can R* ban a player for playing their game in a way they allowed it to be? Can YouTube ban someone for showing 100% authentic game footage? Who's responsible for telling users that racist, sexist, and misogynistic play patterns are not okay? Can R* implement a severe in-game punishment system for such play? Or do we just "trust" that users respect the material enough to not fall into such patterns? I think this thread knows the answer to that last one.
Sorry for ranting a bit. I'm waiting to play RDR2 on PC myself. But R* takes so much from their audience and is protected for a lot of shit they put into it.
I'm surprised even after all that, I didn't just go off and say "Slap this game with an AO rating". Not because of the content, but because of certain "adults" not being able to handle the freedom. That's what's happening here. A YouTuber sees he can get views from playing a game in a hateful way so he lets go of whatever feelings of wrongness to get views. A game developer sees they can get sales from letting users kill everyone so they make the best, most detailed sandbox world to do that in. The videos and streams aren't going to be about detailed storylines, they're gonna be about killing NPCs.
R* is very, very good at what they do. They have the #1 entertainment brand in the world so they are in a position of power. However, that they allow this to just... happen is pretty sad.
I was going to make a thread about certain films, but R*'s level of success is appropriate for the scenario as well.
The question is: "You have a billion dollar entertainment product, BUT half of your audience range from a bit to extremely sexist, racist, misogynistic, etc. Would you entertain the that half for a half a billion dollars, or ignore them completely?"
The popular sentiment on ERA and everywhere else is to deplatform those Social Media Creators and unfriend anyone that subscribes to them. Yet no publically traded company will let you give up a guaranteed $500 million dollars.
I can respect R*'s extreme expression of freedom in videogame environments, but they are also profiting from the dark side of that same freedom. YouTube creator profits, YouTube itself profits, R* profits in money AND word of mouth but are somehow shielded from what their users do.
I don't ask this lightly. I'm a big fan of what R* and other massive entertainment creators try to do. But it seems that they'll just take their money from anywhere while ignoring the negative impact their product has on their massive audiences.
GTAV didn't get 100 million sales from selling to adults alone. ADULTS might, MIGHT, be able to absorb and respect the material to not make videos specifically about killing minorities and women. They MIGHT be able to tell videogames apart from reality. They have the power to be responsible, but are still susceptible to not exercising it. A videogame lets a person escape their responsibilities.
Kids are not responsible for the content in whatever popular game they play. Parents can be responsible but kids live in a world where the #1 videogame in the world allows you to kill anyone for any reason. It's so popular that they'll hear about it from other kids. They can watch it on YouTube and social media. They can get a form of GTA on every single platform (besides a Nintendo one ;_;) including phones.
No, kids are not sexist, racist, or misogynistic yet but the #1 videogame in the world can encourage those views, even if it doesn't literally reward you for it. Killing an NPC for ironic or unironic reasons can get tied to the feeling of being entertained. Let those kids play the #1 videogame in the world everyday or week and it adds up. They don't even have to play it, the most extreme gameplay is on Social Media. It takes 1 Like to reward a content creator to make more of the same content.
And it's not the content creator's fault. They just take the money.
I'm not sure what the answer is. Can R* ban a player for playing their game in a way they allowed it to be? Can YouTube ban someone for showing 100% authentic game footage? Who's responsible for telling users that racist, sexist, and misogynistic play patterns are not okay? Can R* implement a severe in-game punishment system for such play? Or do we just "trust" that users respect the material enough to not fall into such patterns? I think this thread knows the answer to that last one.
Sorry for ranting a bit. I'm waiting to play RDR2 on PC myself. But R* takes so much from their audience and is protected for a lot of shit they put into it.
I'm surprised even after all that, I didn't just go off and say "Slap this game with an AO rating". Not because of the content, but because of certain "adults" not being able to handle the freedom. That's what's happening here. A YouTuber sees he can get views from playing a game in a hateful way so he lets go of whatever feelings of wrongness to get views. A game developer sees they can get sales from letting users kill everyone so they make the best, most detailed sandbox world to do that in. The videos and streams aren't going to be about detailed storylines, they're gonna be about killing NPCs.
R* is very, very good at what they do. They have the #1 entertainment brand in the world so they are in a position of power. However, that they allow this to just... happen is pretty sad.
That's fine, I personally wouldn't mind, but I also don't think it's really much of a problem.
Again, the problem is that people out there are filled with irrational hatred and they will use whatever they can to vent that poison. You can take any number of open world constructs, target specific NPC's, make some videos and frame the content with bigoted or sexist intent.
This isn't a Rockstar or RDR2 problem, this is a people are sexist, racist shits problem.
It's not just what was shown is so similar and just titled or presented differently, the actual content, intent, and presentation is completely different. Basically it is not remotely the same thing.
It is inane to suggest it's similar and conflating the two is not helping your argument. They are also vastly different because of the reasons described in my previous posts whereas subjects in these videos are clearly helpless victims without agency or anything else but to be a subject of crime or to be that victim.
Again your conflation here is baffling and wrong and the way you are conflating them does not speak to reason. And it also speaks to the poor interpretation of what can be reasonably construed as offensive because Americans common sense and media literacy is so poor and is essentially at the crux of so many political and racial issues of the day.
It's weird, half of this thread comes across like people think rockstar should stop a minority of racist/sexist assholes by removing anyone who isn't a white male from the game so they can't be harmed or making anyone who isn't a white male indestructible. Because that'd the only way to stop somebody doing something abusive.
Well apart from real-time jail time but I don't fancy spending the weekend in jail because I accidentally ran over a woman with my horse.
Well apart from real-time jail time but I don't fancy spending the weekend in jail because I accidentally ran over a woman with my horse.
I honestly think no publication should have brought attention to this dude because now he's just profiting from it. Hopefully YouTube gets its head out of its ass.
it'd be nice if rockstar released some kind of statement, but i suppose they don't want to piss off the nazis that make up a significant portion of their playerbase
It's absolutely amazing how people are starting to demonize Rockstar over this... Wth is wrong with you people?
Pretty sure it's not a surprise to them that many of their customers play in this way. The games they make always focus on providing a sense of lawlessness and freedom with ample opportunities to act out violence against women or anyone else their users desire. There have been headlines about Rockstar games enabling simulation of violence against women for years and years. If they wanted to curtail that the time would have been when they actually made the game not after the fact. They make their money providing this type of entertainment for exactly this audience and they have to be aware of that (especially given the times we live in).
Rockstar should patch Cucco behaviour into the suffragette. The live-streams would be hilarious.
Firstly, I'd lay of the condescension just a tad sport because you're not nearly as insightful as you think.
As to your point, I disagree because ultimately the issue is and remains how the content was framed and the truth is that anyone can take any number of open-world games and do something very similar to what was done here.
Killing NPC's in games isn't immoral because they are fictional beings.
The problem was some asshat turning that killing into a anti-feminist statement while spreading hate in the process, which is immoral and grotesque.
I think YouTube is more at fault for the boost in views than anyone here. He thinks he's untouchable now that his channel is back.
We've got a lot of Jack Thompson-type arguments being espoused like errant fecal matter in this thread.
The irony is that Rockstar is taking much of this flak because they included the Sufferage movement while also making the KKK a default villainous presence within the game. (Neither of which is a bad thing)
Their games enable violence against pretty much anyone and everyone.
So do many other open-world games.
Let's quit pretending this is a Rockstar issue when so many other developers do the very same things, along with making entertainment products about war, murder, etc.
And letting us have a laugh at their expensive as well. Even in that KKK video I couldn't stop laughing when they all ended up burning.
The worst part about all this shebackle is that this is obviously having the opposite effect that you guys want, but this happens ALL the time and it seems people never learn... You're making this a bigger deal than it should and this is only bringing the attention of this channel to more idiots, while at the same time trying to stir the blame/accountability in all the wrong directions.
Way to go everyone! We sure showed him!
I opened up YouTube, scrolled down to see an "Action-Adventure Games" topic and this hateful piece of shits video was smack dab in the middle of my "recommendations". I immediately reported it for "hateful/abusive content" but I have zero faith YouTube will take any follow up action as it continues to generate revenue. Absolutely shameful.What the actual fuck is this shit
Yes I'm sure they are worried about pissing off Nazi's by making the KKK both buffoons and villains to be cut down on sight with no penalty.
Tremendous logic being employed here.
I never disagreed with any of these points. That is the issue with your replies. You're stating what most others already have including myself.
Using street fighter as an example for comparison doesn't make sense because you can't do these open world activities and the context is completely different because no character is again lacking strength or agency. And people aren't making such videos. If they were they would be grossly misrepresenting the game content to the point it has nothing tp do with street fighter and it's just hateful content appropriating assets from a game. In some sense the same could be argued about rdr2 or open world games though to less degree since you can actually do these things in a technical sense.
To appropriate something the way you're saying makes the final content so removed from what the original is in the case of street fighter it can hardly be argued it has anything to do with it by then. It would be like having trump speaking through A ryu doll, of course the final content is dumb and racist but it had nothing to do with anything besides the final content all removed and disparate from their original soucres.
The end content even in this case is disconnected from the original work that alone it is obviously stupid and derogatory and racist .
Essentially we agree so dropping the condescending bomb didn't make sense either. Even in the case of rdr2 this is not an rdr2 issue but a YouTube policy and policing issue. The content and context clearly is not consistent with the game proper from these videos.
Tldr none of this is game content anymore in my view it is exclusively derogatory speech and media that happens to use a game as a medium.
I'm not trying to highlight any issue mate. Just saying it how I see it. You only need to google to verify my statement: https://www.google.com/search?q=gta prostitiute violence
Most video games are about violence but somehow when it's stories about beating up prostitutes and kidnapping them in the boot of your car. Or beating up actual feminist protesters in-game. Or tying up a black man and taking him to a KKK meeting. Those are the Rockstar games. Unless I missed the stories about this stuff happening with other high profile open world games...
Do you think they can't foresee these outcomes in their sandbox? That's pretty naive if you ask me.
Those aren't stories within the games, those are people doing shit to NPC's and presenting them as 'funny' because they are racist, sexist, etc.
That's on them, not Rockstar.
I mean, if you're cool restricting content because these assholes do this kind of thing that's your decision but I'm not okay with that.
Again, you're blaming the wrong people...
What the actual fuck is this shit
This was the first video that was recommended to me today and I thought WTF. He doesn't care he's just trying to ride this fame since that first video got famous. I think the issue here is in the video title, trying to be so edgy and clickbaity to grab more attention. I don't think the gameplay video is the problem since it is an open world game and you can do whatever the fuck you want. Maybe Youtube can force him to change the video title.
User Banned (permanent): Dismissing concerns about intolerance, a history of similar behavior and infractions
People seem to be unable to handle videogames anymore . . all kinds of shit is happening every second in the real world with real people but instead people get up in arms about an idiot who post stupid videos of a videogames. What a time to be alive.
In general, making money off youtube videos really does seem like one of those bullshit jobs.
Gela94: unfortunately it seems like many people today barely live in the physical world...they mostly seem to live in the virtual world...in their minds the boundaries have blurred. Yeah, it is pathetic.
Gela94: unfortunately it seems like many people today barely live in the physical world...they mostly seem to live in the virtual world...in their minds the boundaries have blurred. Yeah, it is pathetic.
like clockwork, ERA never learnsAnd letting us have a laugh at their expensive as well. Even in that KKK video I couldn't stop laughing when they all ended up burning.
The worst part about all this shebackle is that this is obviously having the opposite effect that you guys want, but this happens ALL the time and it seems people never learn... You're making this a bigger deal than it should and this is only bringing the attention of this channel to more idiots, while at the same time trying to stir the blame/accountability in all the wrong directions.
Way to go everyone! We sure showed him!
That's not on Rockstar. Their games allow you to do these things, but it's not as if they encourage this sort of behavior.
In the case of RDR II, attacking the protester makes you lose honor and gets you a wanted level. The KKK are treated as a joke and you don't lose honor for killing them.
"Just saying it how I see it."
Maybe that says more about you than the game itself.
Let's put the condescending issue aside since that wasn't your intent and I'll take your word for it.
The Street Fighter analogy works in my estimation because the issue is ultimately about framing.
You speak to character empowerment but let's say I made a hypothetical video entitled "I Beat the Shit Out of an Empowered Woman' where I start a 2-player game and beat a Chun-Li that is incapable of fighting back.
From my perspective, that's no different because regardless of content, my messaging is the same and I'm using the media to supplement my vulgarity.
But yes, other than that we seem to be in agreement on the bigger issue regardless if we come to a consensus on the analogy.
Thanks for taking the time to clarify.
FOH with this.
Youtube were the ones who reinstated him allowing him to capitalise on his notoriety.
Agree
In either case I think both are removed enough from the original media to be considered separate entirely and should independently be judged as discriminatory
You clearly don't know a single thing about this game, so why even comment? Rockstar is sending a pretty clear message as is, what with how they treat racists and race realists in this game.
