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Fans Are Disappointed That Overwatch Still Doesn't Have A Black Woman Hero
- Thread starter Vela
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They do wear headdresses... Of Bedouin/Native American communities that aren't black. There's also the old concept of Pharaonism in Egypt that uses ancient egyptian iconography and essentially boils down to "We're not black or Muslim, we're our own thing."
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Her ethnicity was considered at one point:
I know, and it begs the question why they didn't prioritise filling a void that had to be filled over one committing to more representation of the same group.
It's the kind of thing that weighs on my mind.
I have love-hate relationship with the game, but I've always given it props for its diversity - but it was never lost on me that there wasn't a black woman, and that really sucks.
This is such a missed opportunity.
I can't believe they didn't go for the white on red outfitHer ethnicity was considered at one point:
That's some reverse carmen sandiego shit
Like why, that shit looks so sick
They might, however small a chance, do what they did with Lucio and make that design an unlockable skin.
Ok, well whose definition of "black" are we using here? Because the person in the OP was willing to consider them black due to them being from Africa, they just didn't think it was clear enough (even though it is). I imagine most Americans would consider most Africans "black."
His style, his features/traits, his alt costumes, and his verbiage. They all point to him possibly having more roots than just Brazilian in just cultural background.
I look at these same things with Sombra and I still see her the same I always have, Mexican. Which is fine. I like the character as Mexican and that's fine.
Well, Miles Morales is widely known to be Afro-Latino. Marvel does not hide this or make it ambiguous at all, it's pretty much out there, and you see him interacting with his parents (his father black, his mother latina). There's also instances where he struggles with his racial identity too which is neat. Say what you want about the character, but even the most minimal effort is there and establishing that background.
There is more to being black than just your physical appearance, but here's the crazy part... That's a huge part of being black and there is no escaping it. That is literally why we are having this discussion. I know not a single human is 100% anything... The fact that the thread is about the lack of a black woman on the roster and yet we're dancing around the racial ambiguity of other characters that I thought were already established and dealing with "WHAT THIS CHARACTER ISN'T BLACK?" Tells me people are either being willfully ignorant, are actually clueless, or we will just keep getting the same answers we got before and after Doomfist showed up (For the record I'm generally ok with Doomfist being a villain and didn't really take offense in how he was presented).
Not one character on the roster even remotely resembles this character. Even with the samey OW female design it stands out. Rounded nose instead of pointed, fuller lips, her complexion being closer to DF, curly hair instead of straight. So it is really odd that we go into this cycle of gymnastics any time a OW diversity thread is made. Like you'll never see so many, "what is blackness... really?" Post on here besides representation threads. I actually think Blizzard has been handling it well (the diversity)... But I don't blame people questioning the lack of a black woman on the roster.
I've seen a lot of woman pull of that hairstyle tbh.
But I can definitely see the confusion. I am not against the idea of Sombra being Afro-latino, I just do not think it is likely that she is or that those that designed the character did it with that in mind.
...All your suggestions as to why , is why I see her as afro hispanic. But to each their own I guess
That's a shame, first choice is my favourite.Her ethnicity was considered at one point:
If you wanna see crying and outrage, see the reactions to Diablo Immortal. What is going on in this thread and in the article, is really tame. Can't really comment on Smash, since I didn't really follow. But apparently some of the reactions went overboard because of fake leaks they got hyped about.
In addition, once they decided on Ashe's backstory/character archetype (Rich hyper-privileged old-money .1%er w/ parental issues who does heists for the thrill of it) I think they end up in a situation where doing that archetype as a nonwhite character becomes awkward in the context of Ashe being an American character due to our country's history and continuing issues with race and class. You could do it, but I think a lot of people would have been understandably unhappy and disappointed with that decision as well.
Jeff has explicitly stated Echo's not next btw. Someone else is on deck who's virtually finished internally.
At the panel where the art was shown the team said they're actually holding that silhouette in their back pocket for a future hero due to how good it was- it just didn't fit what they ended up needing for Ashe.
How many mascots for games are LGBT? You think making the poster girl for Overwatch gay is a safe choice?
Oh come on! I was always under the impression Junkrat is gay, can't you clearly tell!
More LGBT reps would be cool
Yeah, not seeing. But hey, I'm sure it's possible.
If we're going the route of asking whose definition is being used here, I will say right now the American one. I understand people complain about ERA's Americanism, but Overwatch is an American game by American developers played mainly by Americans and is a game trying to provide inclusivity from an American lens. We actually have some clout here.
Now, you already noted that Americans will see most Africans as black. The operative word is most. We already know white South Africans aren't considered black despite being from Africa. On top of that, Egypt's image in media has been a hodgepodge of different portrayals and considerations over decades that I would personally be hardpressed to find people who think Egyptians are more equivalent to me than to unmistakably Arab folks.
Furthermore, "Blackness" in an American context is a concept that is social, cultural, and political as much as it is looks. It is inescapably tied to the fallout of colonialism and the slave trade, wherever you should find "black people" on this planet.
Lucio doesn't just have the looks and finally the cultural adornments of black Brazilian culture. The nigga grew up in a favela, a Brazilian construct that is the direct fallout from the Transatlantic slave trade and centuries of systematic racial and economic oppression on part of Portuguese settlers. Logically the only reason he exists in Brazil is because his ancestors got kidnapped like mine did. His Equalizer skin is a direct callback to axe and funk artists who are also typically black, similar to hip-hop in America.
Ana and Pharah express absolutely nothing in terms of the sociopolitical ramifications of "black culture." They were born in an Arabic country, they speak Arabic, they dress in Arabic clothing, have Arabic voice actresses, and have not- as far as we know in lore- have had to engage in or deal with any of the systemic issues that black Egyptians actually face.
From my distinctly American perspective. Lucio is unmistakably black all day long. Ana and Pharah are Arabic people.
Even ignoring the lack of a Black female rep, Ashe's Black design is so much better, take it from a Blizzard fanboy, they always have better concept art & their final choice is disappointing, it's like a running joke & it's really frustrating, even more so now obviously since still no Black female character yet there is close to 30 characters. Dunno what they were thinking making it another White female who looks like Widowmaker, That same face is Toriyama style bad.
User Banned (permanent): Minimizing inclusive casts as illegitimate stereotyping, dismissing concerns surrounding representation, history of severe infractions
Well your example is about a character from a totally different type of media. Due to the fact that overwatch is a non narrative video game there is no room to develop characters on the level of Mile Morales who is the main character of his own set of stories. Miles does show elements of what it's like to be black because writers have had time to develop him as a character. Overwatch has no time or place for anything similar. Overwatch relies on non offensive stereotypes to quickly hint at the personality of its characters. It also sometimes has other media to help establish characters but the vast majority of it's storytelling is voicelines and character appearance.His style, his features/traits, his alt costumes, and his verbiage. They all point to him possibly having more roots than just Brazilian in just cultural background.
I look at these same things with Sombra and I still see her the same I always have, Mexican. Which is fine. I like the character as Mexican and that's fine.
Well, Miles Morales is widely known to be Afro-Latino. Marvel does not hide this or make it ambiguous at all, it's pretty much out there, and you see him interacting with his parents (his father black, his mother latina). There's also instances where he struggles with his racial identity too which is neat. Say what you want about the character, but even the most minimal effort is there and establishing that background.
There is more to being black than just your physical appearance, but here's the crazy part... That's a huge part of being black and there is no escaping it. That is literally why we are having this discussion. I know not a single human is 100% anything... The fact that the thread is about the lack of a black woman on the roster and yet we're dancing around the racial ambiguity of other characters that I thought were already established and dealing with "WHAT THIS CHARACTER ISN'T BLACK?" Tells me people are either being willfully ignorant, are actually clueless, or we will just keep getting the same answers we got before and after Doomfist showed up (For the record I'm generally ok with Doomfist being a villain and didn't really take offense in how he was presented).
Not one character on the roster even remotely resembles this character. Even with the samey OW female design it stands out. Rounded nose instead of pointed, fuller lips, her complexion being closer to DF, curly hair instead of straight. So it is really odd that we go into this cycle of gymnastics any time a OW diversity thread is made. Like you'll never see so many, "what is blackness... really?" Post on here besides representation threads. I actually think Blizzard has been handling it well (the diversity)... But I don't blame people questioning the lack of a black woman on the roster.
What about Mei informs you that she is Chinese? Her stereotypical accent? The chopsticks in her hair? Remove those and she could be from anywhere.
What is Egyptian about Pharah other than her accent and face tattoo? Change her skin and accent and in game she would still work.
What about the favorite Lucio? He plays music, is happy, wears green and likes soccer. Does Brazil have a monopoly on those things?
My point is that those things are stereotypes to suggest an ethic background but are just surface level stereotypes.
Like I said earlier they can add a female character with afro textured hair and dark skin, it will check a diversity box. They can say they have that minority in game. But that doesn't mean it will represent what a black woman is.
The lesson I'm trying to teach is you don't want diversity, overwatch has plenty of that. You want a character that looks like you or what you want. That's a different want than more diversity. Video games in general do a poor job of truly representing minorities anyway.
I want more diversity in the way people are represented in media I do. To do that beyond a surface level requires actual character development. What I don't want is to be a box checked to satisfy a diversity quota in some kind of strange reverse tokenism.
This sounded bullshit at blizcon and it sounds even worse now. They want people to believe that they make these expensive cinematics without knowing who the playable chracters are? That one of the 6 generic ass triplits could be charaters? They just happened to pick Aish sure guys. Watch them make Sombra or someone half black using a comic as an easy out.
Agreed with this, because, how do you make a sick ass animation with these characters and make Ashe the playable character and not the infinitely more interesting BOB?
'people' probably complain abut an american-centric perspective because of unfounded assertions like that that just assume the biggest playerbase is American.
This thread...isn't really good.
Nepenth and Spinluck are basically saying what I would've, except much better. Give us a black woman hero.
Nepenth and Spinluck are basically saying what I would've, except much better. Give us a black woman hero.
The cinematic was originally intended to add only Echo to the game's playable roster queue. Once they saw the work done on Ashe, they went "this design is great and we think fans will want her in the game too", at which point they started actively developing her as well. The unspoken thing leading Ashe to bump everyone back in queue a spot is almost certainly Red Dead, as the timing of releasing her right on the heels of that game was too good a timing opportunity to pass up.
The poster girl for Overwatch is now a hawt lesbian, so it's totally fine with them.
People would have lost their minds infinitely more if it had been popular male character(s).
People think Tracer is hawt in a hetero male gazey way? lol
Jokes aside, media does have an obvious double standard over embracing lesbians over homosexual males.
I don't think it's completely unfounded to assume that the biggest portion of the active Overwatch playerbase is American, but I have no statistics on any of that so I'll give that one to you. My bad.
My bigger points about race still stand, however.
Huh...HUH.... You know what, you're bloody right. I never thought about it that way. Wow, that really sucks. God damn.
I'm trying to think of any from the top of my head and I'm stumped.
Only one I can think of right now that's not dressed up in alien garb as Uhura from Star Trek.
She is canonically Chinese in the OW universe. However else they decide to exude that is up to them, I am not Chinese. I wouldn't know the best way to get that across, and yes, there are plenty of stereotypes in play with OW. No one is arguing this. Lucio has a lot going for him besides your silly comments about music and soccer, but that's cool if that's how you interpreted my take on the character.
You are pretty much spinning what I said into some strawman level nonsense. You tell me that I do not want diversity when I think OW is pretty diverse in general. I point out the clear flaw in the diversity among the female characters in the game. And you give me this speech about how I do not actually want diversity... huh? Perhaps it is you basically jumping around the fact that there is not a black woman in the game, and bending the issue as much as possible. Blizzard is literally having to explain why there is no black women in the game... The excuses will never end.
Ikora Rey baby! Warlocks represent!
To add onto that: her "stereotypical" accent and use of Mandarin is the result of them, you know, hiring an actual Chinese actor. Put her in a firefighter skin and she's still an unmistakably Chinese person.
If anything, OW does a great job of avoiding overt stereotypical traits with their characters. I think having the characters speak their native language actually helps the cause as well. It's really cool. It's not as simple as OH BRAZILIAN LIKES SOCCER, when he's known far more for being a DJ.
Also his favorite sport is hockey anyway.
It pisses me off that it's his favorite sport.
BUT! You can't claim they didn't try to break the mold a little bit. 8'D
Pharah is half First Nations, although I understand that's not much in the way of comfort, especially considering it was a retcon. But as it's been said elsewhere, the desire for one minority doesn't necessarily supersede another. We could make Pharah's father a hero, or have a new Native character altogether, and I'd be all for it too.
There's been calls for general diversity to begin with.
In fact, I was thinking about their lack of a Native American representation while reading this thread, but - and this is a big BUT - it is not on people who want to see a black woman to also advocate for Native American representation.
That's not on us.
I for one would love a Native American character.
But you'll get the following responses:
"Wait I thought Symmetra was Indian"
"Wait, Pharah and Ana aren't Native American? They look pretty close tbh"
"What is Native American... really?"
"Doomfist looks like he is part of a tribe though"
"It's possible Sombra could have Native American in her since she is Mexican"<--- This one isn't nearly as bad but you get the picture.
Ok I was wondering, because some of her alternate costumes don't exactly give me an Egyptian vibe.
I am officially on the put in Pharah's Dad boat.
Wew this thread
Anyway it's pretty simple, Overwatch loves saying how diverse the cast is yet it doesnt have a single black woman and has now had three white women in a row
Anyway it's pretty simple, Overwatch loves saying how diverse the cast is yet it doesnt have a single black woman and has now had three white women in a row
Confirmed Civilian, unfortunately. I don't think her dad was actually a retcon, given that it would have been utterly bizarre to give her those skin designs in the base game without some sort of connection.
Maybe people should have self restraint and not post dismissive bannable nonsense
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