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Zaheer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,189
Goddamn, some of you are pathetic as hell. All the mental gymnastics over adding a black woman to the game.

Yeah because a brown outlaw robbing and killing people along the southern border of the US would go over super well in the current political climate.

I know you're banned, but they introduced a fucking Nigerian terrorist who murdered his way out of a prison.
 

Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,237
"just give it time!!" pretty shitty that black women have to sit down and wait for something that almost everyone else already has, tbqh

I don't mean to be dismissive in that way, just hopeful that Jeff Kaplan will do the right thing once the long process of creating the character is done. People are free and right to express what they want until that time comes.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
oZgugyV.jpg
It was referring to characters clearly, not people. I feel you might have misunderstood why people take issue with the term female and when. Orisa in example isn't a woman, she is a female robot. Winston isn't a man, he is a male. There's absolutely nothing wrong in talking about female/male characters.
 

Briarios

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,238
My main opposition to getting a black woman in the game is that it's less chance for me to get jetpack cat ... I know, I know, I'm never getting that, but I can dream.

So, other than that, I agree that it would be appropriate, and I was a bit surprised Ashe wasn't.

I am curious what cultural origin fans are hoping for ... A black woman from Alabama is very different than a black woman from Kenya. It seems like it would be a good chance to pick someone from a new country. Has there been any consensus about this or do people just not care? Genuinely curious.
 

Oreiller

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,831
I don't really follow Overwatch so I'm actually really surprised there's no black woman in Overwatch yet.
 

Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,237
Crazy they still don't have a black female hero.

I'm hoping one of the black women they've shown off in artworks or animated shorts will be added soon. They look really cool. Jeff said that "people won't be disappointed" by what they are working on, which is probably a hint that something good is on the way.
 

Francesco

Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,521
User Banned (1 week): Trolling in a sensitive thread, a history of similar infractions
There's still no italian, greek or middle eastern. Man or woman. Never really thought about it until now though.

I'm sure this post will die unnoticed cause we don't matter THAT much to the US rage system.
 
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NNN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
256
User Banned (1 week): Downplaying concerns about diversity, dismissive language
I think people are overreacting. I read the Kotaku article and i'm quite shocked to see one of the tweets they brought up was saying there are no "black" characters when we have Doomfist (I should mention Lucio as well). It's absurd how these SJWs think sometimes, I do think however OW needs a playable black female character that's for sure, but again it does have a black female character (Efi, the girl who made Orisa). People need to calm
 

Acidote

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,965
It's good that people push this kind of think, and Blizzard will probably listen, but to be fair with them and if I'm not wrong, every single hero they've added has been a female with the exception of Doomfist and Wrecking Ball (a hamster).

Ana is an older Egyptian woman.
Sombra is Mexican.
Orisa is a robot created by Efi, a black girl from Numbani (maybe she'll become a character one day).
Doomfist is a Nigerian black man.
Moira is an Irish woman, and they've been quite ambiguous about her (I can't explain myself properly here, not profficient enough in English).
Brigitte is a Swedish woman.
Wrecking Ball is a hamster.
Ashe is an American woman.

With that list it's obvious they've clearly been careful and you can see they'll keep trying to be fair. They've not added a single white heterosexual male beyond those we already had with the game launch and I like to think that is because they're trying to be representative. So in short, I think it's good to push for more representation, but I think Overwatch is precisely one of the few games you can't say are that are not trying to do this right. We will probably have our black female character by this time next year.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,273
And once again, black women get left behind by society. People in this thread saying its not worth being upset about because the game is already diverse. SMFH.

I wonder if they're avoiding making a black woman playable because she might sell less costumes. Doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility for Activision tbh.
This doesn't really make sense when they have other women of color in there, does it?
 

Smash Kirby

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 7, 2017
4,067
It was referring to characters clearly, not people. I feel you might have misunderstood why people take issue with the term female and when. Orisa in example isn't a woman, she is a female robot. Winston isn't a man, he is a male.
I understand that fine, more females just rubs me the wrong way. More female characters, however is fine. The phrasing is just bad, and I was trying to poke a little at it, I wasn't meaning any harm by it. Though Overwatch is almost 1:1 in gender representation though. More characters isn't a bad thing.
 
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Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
I think people are overreacting. I read the Kotaku article and i'm quite shocked to see one of the tweets they brought up was saying there are no "black" characters when we have Doomfist (I should mention Lucio as well). It's absurd how these SJWs think sometimes, I do think however OW needs a playable black female character that's for sure, but again it does have a black female character (Efi, the girl who made Orisa). People need to calm
How exactly are people in that article overreacting. Elaborate and explain what would you have them do.

Also are you really using "sjw" unironically?
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
It was referring to characters clearly, not people. I feel you might have misunderstood why people take issue with the term female and when. Orisa in example isn't a woman, she is a female robot. Winston isn't a man, he is a male. There's absolutely nothing wrong in talking about female/male characters.
no, using "females" outside of a scientific/medical context is shitty whether you're referring to fictional characters or real people.
This doesn't really make sense when they have other women of color in there, does it?
it's almost like women of color are routinely fetishized except for black women who are often seen as undesirable
 

Nocturnowl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,091
As diverse as the game is, I think that also opens the door to people being understandably more disappointed when they don't stretch themselves further, from races to body types there's always a group of fans/players/potential fans even that'd benefit.

Which makes Ashe extra underwhelming coming so soon after Brigitte and to a lesser extent Moira (at least she's sorta gangly and pale?), sometimes there's the aspect of being caught between a rock and hard place I imagine when you've got this universe set up, tons of plans behind the scenes we don't see and tackling new heroes which could be designs informing movesets or vice versa.
The relationship web that connects certain characters together adds another hurdle, I think with Ashe though there's that kicker where unlike other post launch OW characters that revisit nationalities and skin types due to family links, you've got someone whose link to the main cast is free enough to have been anything really, I know some point out that hey she's Albino and yeah I guess that's certainly a point, but I'd argue perhaps one that could've happened further down the line, especially when earlier concepts of the character do in fact show a dark skinned alternative.

Ultimately we don't know what's coming down the hero pipeline, maybe they've had a black woman waiting in the wings for a while now but she hasn't fully come together? maybe it's a bunch more European countries getting represented? maybe they are now scrambling to meet the current demand because they incorrectly thought that Efi/Orisa was doing the job fine.

Now this may just be me, but when seeing these discussions I'm thinking that a lot of white people (including myself) are out of the loop or uneducated in certain race related matters, genuinely before opening this thread I was thinking "what about the Egyptian duo?" only to find I've hit the tip of a historical iceberg relating to ancient Egyptians that I never even really pondered or had brought to my attention.
I'm even now stuck wondering what the response would be if we got a black women who also broke out of the current female model mould OW women have been stuck in, does that potentially open another can of worms? as such I don't tend to talk about this sort of thing much in fear of walking on eggshells and saying something stupid (and oh so white), which I probably already have.

In the end I like to think that among the numerous planned heroes there's a bunch that will please a variety of people who feel they're not represented in game yet, but I can understand how Ashe in particular at this point in time elicited an exasperated eye roll for some, personally I just found her boring looking and think that the earlier concept art is a missed opportunity.

I'll admit though that I think a select few wagging fingers at wrecking ball of all characters is kinda silly, crazy concepts like "what if we had like giant hamster ball mech?" are another part of what makes the OW cast fun and unique, touting "hamster representation" sarcastically seems to weaken the main point because I don't think tank character based on the lunar colony story bit was taking a spot so to speak from human diversity choices.
 

Scrooge McDuck

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,038
I think people are overreacting. I read the Kotaku article and i'm quite shocked to see one of the tweets they brought up was saying there are no "black" characters when we have Doomfist (I should mention Lucio as well). It's absurd how these SJWs think sometimes, I do think however OW needs a playable black female character that's for sure, but again it does have a black female character (Efi, the girl who made Orisa). People need to calm
Which tweet is that, because I can't seem to find it on the article. And people are calm. Come on, now.
 

Grisby

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,531
Yeah, I'm sure they'll get there. I wouldn't mind some more variation in body types.
 

Master Milk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,450
If they're really trying to push this as a diverse game adding a black woman should be priority one. Seeing that multiple characters were originally black women but were later changed for some reason is a bad sign. If it happens once, well, that's just how Quantum Racism works, but when it happens multiple times you're establishing a pattern that you might want to examine.

Can't say I'm surprised that any of this is a thing though.
 

sibarraz

Prophet of Regret - One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
18,102
I mean, of all the games where you could make this criticism, why Overwatch? its cast is arguably one of the most diverses in gaming, demanding every single combination of race and genders seems to be way too much
 
Kindly stop being this defiant about something you demonstrably has little knowledge about. Do you think this is merely a matter of shade of skin? That when my skin is darker than this melanin concentration, then I qualify as a black person? Do you also see Hanzo and think he's white? Ask most people from India if they identify as "black".
Indian is a nationality, there are black Indians just like there are black Germans.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
no, using "females" outside of a scientific/medical context is shitty whether you're referring to fictional characters or real people.
I really don't think that's true. Maybe some inviduals think like that, but going by the long "please stop referring women to females" thread, using female as an adjective is pretty much always fine. The context was established in the first part of the sentence to be about characters in Overwatch. Where every character isn't even man or a woman, the person was comparing the amount of female and male characters in the game. Sure if the person would have said "it has more females than men" I'd agree.

I understand that fine, more females just rubs me the wrong way. More female characters, however is fine. The phrasing is just bag, and I was trying to poke a little at it, I wasn't meaning any harm by it. Though Overwatch is almost 1:1 in gender representation though. More characters isn't a bad thing.
Sure, the person just already apologized earlier and seemed sincerely feel sorry so seeing a snarky response ticked me off a bit. Especially since I wouldn't agree that it was wrongful use of the word. And I don't think it does any good to treat the word female as some kind of taboo word, because that's not how we would treat male in similar context. It just fuels people who shout about "outrage culture". It also can add legit confusion to non-native English speakers, that it shouldn't be uset at all. I understand where people are coming from when they criticize the use of the word, but I haven't seen majority being for blanket ban of the word. Just that it should be used like one would use the word male.
 
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Hagi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,950
I don't know why people spend so much effort arguing about things that don't really affect them. I'm not black or a women and I don't really care if we see this type of hero comes to fruition but at the end of the day it's not about me. If you can't empathise with someones viewpoint about their races lack of representation in media then just shrug and move on. Black women are dissapointed that they don't have a character to look to yet and there's nothing wrong with them feeling that way.
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
Never played Overwatch but I am curious as how much does the backstory of characters play a role in the actual game about "Heroes" hailing from different locations? Do the competitions take place areas of the world dominated by white people because I honestly have to wonder the reasons for making statements like:

I'm all for representation, but not for representation sake. This should not be a tick box exercise.

Nothing worse than token representation

How the fuck does inclusion of a or according this thread, another "black woman" hero character be a superficial token representation made to check forced diversity tick box?

Also, this is perhaps my first time I have been disappointed with the moderation's inability to see through racist dog whistling.
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,412
I mean, of all the games where you could make this criticism, why Overwatch? its cast is arguably one of the most diverses in gaming, demanding every single combination of race and genders seems to be way too much

What kind of world do we live in where out of 29 heroes, none is an African black woman. It's laughable.
 

Shoreu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,010
Orisa is very clearly coded as a black woman, just as the other omnics are coded as various nationalities and ethnicities. I think it's a stretch to say that she isn't. That doesn't mean that Overwatch can't have two black women characters, but I would consider Orisa the first.
No i will not consider Orisa. She's a robot not a person idc what she was coded as she i want a non Ambiguously black female character included
 

funroll-loops

Member
Oct 29, 2017
116
I don't know why people spend so much effort arguing about things that don't really affect them. I'm not black or a women and I don't really care if we see this type of hero comes to fruition but at the end of the day it's not about me. If you can't empathise with someones viewpoint about their races lack of representation in media then just shrug and move on. Black women are dissapointed that they don't have a character to look to yet and there's nothing wrong with them feeling that way.

I think it may be a bit confusing to people outside the US since there are characters who appear to be black women but according to the author aren't "unambiguously" black by American standards
 

Riley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
540
USA
I don't doubt that they will add a playable black woman eventually. It's just disappointing that it's taking so long.
 

Espers

Banned
May 12, 2018
142
This is like saying Genji is not Japanese because he is mostly a robot.

Orisa is portrayed by a black woman. She speaks with an African accent, hails from an African culture, and has African sayings in her voice clips. Orisa is very clearly a black female omnic character.

This is not even remotely close. Genji has a backstory detailing him as Japanese man and member of a Japanese clan. He was injured and turned into a cyborg. Plus, you can use his character with original human skin as well.

Orisa is designed to represent a place/culture. She is not a direct representation of a race of people any more so than Zenyatta.
 

Grain Silo

Member
Dec 15, 2017
2,504
Agreed. I'd love to see a black woman. Another African Numbani rep would be perfect. Maybe a family member of Efi Oladele (creator of Orisa)?
 

Slushimi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,548
I honestly couldn't care much about ethnicities in Overwatch because I only play viable heroes, regardless of their ethnicity. But I can understand that people would like to see a black woman in the game, especially if they only play casually. I mean I got excited seeing some Morrocan representation in R6S and that's the only reason why I booted the game recently. Representation of any ethnicity is cool to have if people want that. The more, the merrier.
 

Deleted member 268

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,611
This doesn't really make sense when they have other women of color in there, does it?

This isn't about other groups of women.

This is about black women, who in my estimation are probably make up the most under appreciated and undervalued group in society.

Always last and rarely properly considered.

Overwatch now has a cast comprised of
  • 7 white men
  • 7 white women
  • 2 Asian men
  • 3 Asian women
  • 2 Arab women
  • 2 black men
  • 1 Latino woman
  • 2 animals
  • 3 robots
And no black woman.

That's thoroughly disappointing more so because Blizzard seems to be about all kinds of diversity - just not black women.
 

Hagi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,950
I think it may be a bit confusing to people outside the US since there are characters who appear to be black women but according to the author aren't "unambiguously" black by American standards

I'm not even American so not sure if this checks out. To me at least there are no characters in the main cast who appear to be black women.
 
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