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Tabata resigns from Square-Enix. FFXV DLCs canceled (Episode Ardyn still coming) (READ OP)
- Thread starter DSP
- Start date
I have no desire to play Dragon Quest and amazingly shitting on a game I actually enjoyed does not in any way endear me to try it.
RE: OP:
Well, can't say I'm saddened by this news. Tabata just doesn't make FF games to my liking. FFXV was the worst FF game I played, Crisis Core was alright because it was a prequel to my favorite FF, FF-Type 0 literally made me sleep.
The way I see it though, he's been handed the short end of the stick. The FFXV model wasn't sustainable; releasing critical information about the story as a movie and an anime (ugh) was a bad idea, releasing multiple $5 short DLCs was just weird, inflating the game with free updates that fix things was just unnecessary.
After Tabata's team heard the post-launch FFXV criticism, they should've apologized, worked silently on fixing and polishing the game/character/gameplay, and then released Royal Edition as a free update even if took two years.
Anyway, hopefully this opens the management's eyes and mind to the future of Final Fantasy. I agree with the people who said we need a return to original form. FFX-2 battle system + FFXII world map + FFV Job system... the series has so many perfected elements that can be brought into modern gen with some elegance. We need fresh blood (psst; Ito). Oh and speaking about the future, they NEED to delay the FFVII Remake. I don't understand how people are not seeing it as a potential Versus XIII/XIII trilogy situation. If FF16 is coming soon, it's gonna interfere with the Remake or vice versa. Delay the remake, give Nomura some respite so he can draw up TWEWY 2.. the fanboys will get over it.
Well, can't say I'm saddened by this news. Tabata just doesn't make FF games to my liking. FFXV was the worst FF game I played, Crisis Core was alright because it was a prequel to my favorite FF, FF-Type 0 literally made me sleep.
The way I see it though, he's been handed the short end of the stick. The FFXV model wasn't sustainable; releasing critical information about the story as a movie and an anime (ugh) was a bad idea, releasing multiple $5 short DLCs was just weird, inflating the game with free updates that fix things was just unnecessary.
After Tabata's team heard the post-launch FFXV criticism, they should've apologized, worked silently on fixing and polishing the game/character/gameplay, and then released Royal Edition as a free update even if took two years.
Anyway, hopefully this opens the management's eyes and mind to the future of Final Fantasy. I agree with the people who said we need a return to original form. FFX-2 battle system + FFXII world map + FFV Job system... the series has so many perfected elements that can be brought into modern gen with some elegance. We need fresh blood (psst; Ito). Oh and speaking about the future, they NEED to delay the FFVII Remake. I don't understand how people are not seeing it as a potential Versus XIII/XIII trilogy situation. If FF16 is coming soon, it's gonna interfere with the Remake or vice versa. Delay the remake, give Nomura some respite so he can draw up TWEWY 2.. the fanboys will get over it.
Of course KH is bigger, but it could be a sales failure anyway. It will sell more in the west than the half million DQXI did, but has it enough drive to have healthy sales? The production and licensing costs of KH3 are far beyond DQXI.
I really don't understand how and why Tabata went through the effort to set up Luminous Productions and start work on a brand new IP (that he seemingly was very excited about) only to abandon it. Really makes me wonder if he was forced to step down or if Square's management wanted to change his IP in some form. Or maybe management really wanted him to sell those 10 million and decided to force him to leave after it only sold around 8.1 million so far.
On another note, it's incredible disrespectful that some people are hating on Tabata and FFXV and expressing this in a vile way to the official FFXV Twitter accounts and in the comments of Tabata's own Facebook statuses. These things get read and can leave serious mental scars for the people involved. Whether you like FFXV, Crisis Core or Type-0 or not, Tabata's work efforts should be treated with respect.
On another note, it's incredible disrespectful that some people are hating on Tabata and FFXV and expressing this in a vile way to the official FFXV Twitter accounts and in the comments of Tabata's own Facebook statuses. These things get read and can leave serious mental scars for the people involved. Whether you like FFXV, Crisis Core or Type-0 or not, Tabata's work efforts should be treated with respect.
FF15 might be the only game in existence where the male and female protagonist who are supposedly a couple didn't have a single direct conversation in the present time. I don't know if that's sad in a good or bad way.
Edit: Silent protagonist doesn't count
Seems likely they told Tabata to choose to either leave or work on FFXVI/FF7R. Final Fantasy still allows a pretty wide creative scope so i'm guessing it's FF7R is a mess. Unlikely that Yoshida is taken off XIV unless they've learned nothing from giving Nomura "2 projects". I'm not impressed by him as a director but everything is pointing at Toriyama right now to take over.
Stella was the other side of the coin wasn't she? Noctis had dark power from Etro and she had the power of light or something. They were destined to fight. She was certainly not as weak as Luna in FFXV. Though Luna in that shitty movie was okay ish IIRC.
To me it sounds like they needed Luminous Productions to work on projects that Square Enix is focusing on for the (near) future. Like FFVII remake, and maybe FFXVI after that.
Just like how they had FF Versus XIII's developers work on FFXIII and FFXIV.
They both had the power from Etro and from the dialogue it's not to far-fetched to say that the powers are linked to "seeing the light from expiring souls"
Everything about Stella is a mystery but I recall a popular theory that Stella was killed by Noctis' family because '...the powers are linked to "seeing the light from expiring souls"' and that explains the small snippet of cutscene where Stella takes Noctis' hand and they are hurriedly running in a field when he was a child. Not sure what that theory exactly says about what Stella is then if she had already died but yeah.
I'm kinda rambling now so I'll stop but I will conclude with the fact that I don't think you can answer that question. Stella is just the biggest ??? in Versus XIII (at least in my eyes)
This may come as a shock, but not everyone is interested in Dragon Quest regardless of how much it gets talked up.
There it is. Told ya. Only was a matter of time. Sony or Microsoft seem likely due to their budget. Someone with his talent and achievement will always be sought after. Goes to show you a lesson that people on the internet don't know what they're talking about and you should never take anything they say seriously.
"Tabata will have trouble getting a job after this" Hyperbole central.
I sincerely doubt Sony or MS are going after him. The companies headhunting him are probably smaller than that, which is part of why he's making a show of saying he's turning them down.
One of those tweets I found said Capcom apparently tried contacting him, so I'm not sure about that. Capcom isn't a small company. But I wonder who else tried contacting him. I'm just going throw a pool of all the big Japanese companies like Sega, Namco, etc and any of them are possible.
Sony or Microsoft, especially Microsoft wants talented developers on their side. It's more likely than anything that Microsoft tries courting him. Phil has also spoken highly of Tabata and praised XV and the Luminous Engine. I don't know why you think he's getting only smaller companies and not big companies. Smaller companies can't afford him anyway so that's less likely than big companies regardless.
I'd say he should be getting offers from both sides due to his pedigree and resume. Or he really has no interest and wants to start his own company, like a Kojima Productions sort of thing, which is fine too. Guess we just gotta wait and see what he ends up doing.
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I just hope they release whatever they have for studio tools on PC because other people would LOVE to dabble with this engine
Honestly, Square deserves every bit of trolling they get for this shit. I can't imagine how it must feel to be a PC fan who bought the game on the promises of mod support.
Honestly the main reason I rebought the game a third time...I've got almost 60 hours on the version and now I hate the version cause I'm not getting what they said we'd get.
It seems because Matsuda has said they want more new IP and due to a strange issue they have with SE employees and people they are hiring.
He said they aren't open to creating something different because people are hung up on the idea that that isn't a "SE" thing to do.
At least then there was Michael as a backup. The fact they're cancelling the other DLC episodes pretty much confirms they have no replacement for his role.
I think you have it absolutely backwards, they wouldn't chuck $33m and cancel a huge amount of in-progress work just because Tabata left. I think it's pretty clear that Tabata was at-bat for FFXV (and possibly the nebulous new IP he had mentioned) and the budget of the FFXV DLC was clearly getting out of control. If you perceive this as a mic drop, I don't know what to say except that you should consider how he feels towards his former team and studio who will be taking the brunt of this hit.
In half a year ? There wouldn't be a single scenario where the loss of 33M$ wouldn't be from SQEX's fault.
As of now everything points to Tabata leaving to start his own venture rather than mismanagement on his part.
He doesn't owe Square anything, too, he might feel bad but he's also entitled to have a life that is free from the intense pressure he had to go through there.
I'm really not the worlds biggest FFXV fan by any stretch of the imagination but the more I think on this news the more it sucks. During his tenure at SQX , Tabata was a closer. He shipped games. Every single project he was attached to was stuck in development hell and he came in , took the reigns and hit release dates. Final Fantasy 7 : Crisis Core was one of many projects announced way back in 2003 (in a roundabout way as part of the FF7 compilation) and as the years ticked on it didn't make it out in english until 2008. But , it shipped. The Third Birthday is a terrible video game that disregards both its prequels for reasons of greed/licensing but it started as a mobile game and close to 3 years later at the end of the PSP's life it did finally ship thanks to Tabata forcing things to wrap up. Final Fantasy XIII Agito was announced along with Versus XIII and regular old XIII however many years ago and it too sat around languishing behind schedule until finally it too was shipped... by Tabata. After that debacle there still remained yet another title stuck in development limbo - Versus XIII and given the track record Tabata had now established, he was tasked once more with finishing something that must have looked impossible. Frankly, I have to quote the movie "walk hard : the story of Dewey Cox" and say that "the wrong kid died". I"ll leave it fellow posters to speculate on who should have been the fall guy here but there's a common thread between these projects and one person was in charge of them all at some point despite demonstrating again and again that he's a very poor producer/director and despite that this person has a very big product launch coming in January after many years of inexcusable delays and budget overruns. This other individual will then move on to assist with/helm another horribly delayed poorly managed project (likely into the ground). Love or hate FFXV (or somewhere in the middle like myself) the fact remains that it was cobbled together from nearly a decade of pre-production work, most of which had to be tossed in the trash before the entire affair was slapped together with a brand new concurrently developed engine in very little time with , by all accounts, a much smaller budget than it really needed and in spite of everything it sold well enough to get a return on investment for shareholders. For whatever reason though, the higher ups at SQX wanted a fall guy for expected future losse. So , much like they did shortly after the disastrous launch of FFXIV , a soon to be ousted senior employee is gifted his own studio and all the losses for the company are then rolled into this offshoot so the parent company can conveniently claim the losses were part of that new studio. Yes, I'm saying Luminous studio was set up to take a fall and as it's head employee , Hajime Tabata had to take responsibility for it. Don't be at all surprised if Luminous itself just gets absorbed into all the other business divisions by April.
On a more personal note , I'm somewhat glad that SQX is forcibly moving on from FFXV if only because I feel like it's overstayed it's welcome but this really does suck for the fans that wanted and were willing to pay for - more stories in this world. I want to hope that going forward SQX can develop a new final fantasy entry that learns from the mistakes made here but ... well, FF13, 14 and now 15 have all had tumultuous development schedules leading to pretty mixed reactions at launch. That's 12 years of development schedules running late, over budget and with multiple staff changes at all levels. This doesn't seem to have changed for the now either , Kingdom Hearts 3 and FF7R are 2 other huge games that should have been shipped by now were they developed with an adequate level of resources with better management. 20 years ago Squaresoft made pretty much all of my favorite games and now it seems like the Japanese arm of development is an endless spiraling struggle , the same problems rearing their head over and over. I want to see some good games from them again in the next few years and ultimately I'm not sure if Tabata leaving is an overall benefit or a detriment to this company.
On a more personal note , I'm somewhat glad that SQX is forcibly moving on from FFXV if only because I feel like it's overstayed it's welcome but this really does suck for the fans that wanted and were willing to pay for - more stories in this world. I want to hope that going forward SQX can develop a new final fantasy entry that learns from the mistakes made here but ... well, FF13, 14 and now 15 have all had tumultuous development schedules leading to pretty mixed reactions at launch. That's 12 years of development schedules running late, over budget and with multiple staff changes at all levels. This doesn't seem to have changed for the now either , Kingdom Hearts 3 and FF7R are 2 other huge games that should have been shipped by now were they developed with an adequate level of resources with better management. 20 years ago Squaresoft made pretty much all of my favorite games and now it seems like the Japanese arm of development is an endless spiraling struggle , the same problems rearing their head over and over. I want to see some good games from them again in the next few years and ultimately I'm not sure if Tabata leaving is an overall benefit or a detriment to this company.
The $33m loss was not incurred in half a year, it was collected and booked as a loss in this six month reporting period. By all odds the writedown begins on work done after Royal Edition shipped (last monetizable major release) and continues through to cover all expenses through to the end of FFXV content next year (as writedowns include the costs of ending the operation being written-down, this is just a standard). It's childish that you'd insinuate that I'm implying it was mismanaged, I just think the market dried up (FFXV Royal Edition sales were pretty soft based on the figure we know) so it became unreasonable to continue making such types of content. If they were already going to be $33m in the hole on day one of Ardyn, how much deeper would they be if the other DLC continued to be developed from now til their later release? You'd need to sell a massive amount of product just to break even, which is not a success.
I also never said Tabata wasn't entitled to a life, but if you see this as "[leaving] like a king", I really just don't know what to say. If this were truly the situation he most wanted, would he not have been the presenter showing off all the amazing DLC they were working on and would they not be moving onto his new IP next? Do you really think he would happily leave if he knew all the DLC would get cancelled? I think your assessment that things were cancelled because he left is backwards. Things were cancelled and then he left.
This isn't a situation with a hero and a villain. It's just business.
But I didn't say he left with a mic drop, I said this is the outcome of the situation. Could he have had continued to work, sure. But he was also ready to start a venture. We don't know much about the progress of other DLCs, but is good to consider that a lot also hinges on the continued support of auxiliary products like FF15 A New Empire that would benefit from continued exposure.
Nakamura's tweet also said that what he heard is that SE won't/can't continue the DLC without him, rather than an all-around need for SQEX to wrap it up because the budget was out of control.
But I didn't say he's happy with all this, just that he has a legacy that shows his presence was a driving force within SQEX
Look, if you use dramatic language to say something like "he left as a king" and then literally say that SE is "scrambling", I think you have to at least accept that it's easy to read that as you insinuating a mic drop-style departure. I think that's a fair way of reading that. I'm sorry if that wasn't your intent, but you're using coloured language. I'm not trying to twist your words, but rather untangle them.
I still contend that they could have finished the remaining DLC without him, and they wouldn't just toss all that had been done over his departure alone. He left at the end of October and Ardyn is bein wrapped up for March, after all. The notion that he was the lynchpin of the actual development process rather than the man who spearheaded and was at bat for the content is one I don't agree with. They're clearly capable of working without him so I maintain that the cancellation is likely not solely due to his departure, but a summation of circumstances.
I apologize for mischaracterizing one of your bits by insinuating you said he was leaving happily, that's my b! However I stand by the core argument that I don't think he would leave if he knew his departure alone would cause a $33m loss and cancellation of a huge amount of work. I don't think a reasonable person would follow through on that situation, and if he really simply did just want to leave, then surely he would have worked with SE to replace himself as he leaves so work would go on. There's no way that his departure is the only factor here, which is why I contend that the genuinely large writedown demonstrates that the spending was getting to be too much for them to be profitable on this new content.
This whole situation and the way it was announced on the stream still feel kind of bizarre to me. Especially since Tabata is saying he wants to form his own studio when that seemed like the entire purpose of Luminous Productions.
I wasn't the biggest fan of the games Tabata directed, but I hope he lands on his feet quickly.
I wasn't the biggest fan of the games Tabata directed, but I hope he lands on his feet quickly.
Agreed. It's legitimately confusing and it doesn't paint Square or Tabata in the best light, really.
Yeah, what Tabata is saying about starting his new business and project sounds like the same stuff he said when he started Luminous Productions. There was a fall out with SE somewhere, maybe promises weren't kept.
I found the quote I was looking for.
Tabata talking about the purpose of forming Luminous Productions in August 2018 (source):
Tabata's reason for leaving Luminous Productions and Square Enix in his official resignation letter dated October 31st (source):
Tabata's future plans in his facebook post yesterday (source):
Tabata talking about the purpose of forming Luminous Productions in August 2018 (source):
Tabata's reason for leaving Luminous Productions and Square Enix in his official resignation letter dated October 31st (source):
Tabata's future plans in his facebook post yesterday (source):
Tabata-san doesn't have to make Final Fantasy anymore.
To me it sounds like he wasn't happy in what the company made him do, and he left.
Good for him.
I also assume he got a big fat check from delivering FFXV on time and having it sell like hot cakes, which enables him to fund his new business.
To me it sounds like he wasn't happy in what the company made him do, and he left.
Good for him.
I also assume he got a big fat check from delivering FFXV on time and having it sell like hot cakes, which enables him to fund his new business.
Gotta' admit, this was a big shocker for me. Totally didn't expect this. On the other hand, I guess I can wait for that last piece of DLC to appear and then go through my final NG+ playthrough of the game. I'd decided I would wait until all the DLC was out before taking one last play of the game to "see everything," and now it looks like I can after December. I can only imagine what kind of contingencies Squenix is going through now to see whether or not they can ship anything in less than seven years with Nomura still being a prominent figure.
"The man who saves final fantasy 15" must be a big credit if he's getting offers everywhere. But i don't really think its some hero worship thing like that and more likely that he has experience in engine creation and game development at the same time, along with shipping a high profile multi million seller. I am pretty sure any of the old guard at SE, if they were to quit, would likely get the same sort of offers just based on their pedigrees alone. Tabata had a 19 year history at SE and it didnt start at FF15, like or dislike the results of his directorial output among other things
somebody let him make his Alternate History RPG
Just my speculation:
Tabata and Luminous Productions we were on a new IP which Square Enix supported. They were allowed to do work for a while. But when Square Enix got around to doing the financials and determine that the studio was burning through too much more. Square takes a more direct control over the studio and pushing Tabata to the side. They then cancel some of the multi-media projects. They either offered Tabata an opportunity to resign or they changed the direction of the studio to working something they think is more financial viable, maybe the next Final Fantasy. Tabata, not wanting to work on more Final Fantasy, disagrees and resigns.
As for the FF15 DLCs, either they cancelled them because they needed the man power to work on this new game. Or with Tabata gone, there was no one left in leadership really committed to continue support for FF15 so the DLCs were cancelled.
Those scenarios are my guesses. Will be interesting to see what the full story is.
Tabata and Luminous Productions we were on a new IP which Square Enix supported. They were allowed to do work for a while. But when Square Enix got around to doing the financials and determine that the studio was burning through too much more. Square takes a more direct control over the studio and pushing Tabata to the side. They then cancel some of the multi-media projects. They either offered Tabata an opportunity to resign or they changed the direction of the studio to working something they think is more financial viable, maybe the next Final Fantasy. Tabata, not wanting to work on more Final Fantasy, disagrees and resigns.
As for the FF15 DLCs, either they cancelled them because they needed the man power to work on this new game. Or with Tabata gone, there was no one left in leadership really committed to continue support for FF15 so the DLCs were cancelled.
Those scenarios are my guesses. Will be interesting to see what the full story is.
We will probably never know it fully, as with Matsuno, Tsuchida, and Ito.
Ultimately Luminous Productions is a Square Enix studio though, and they have the final say. In the end, it appears Tabata couldn't get approval to continue exploring the avenues he wanted to explore within the company, so he walked. I agree the way it was announced on a stream, like a bizarre public execution of FF15's future, was weird though.
That quote makes it sound like Square Enix changed their minds recently and wanted to turn that project into an existing franchise (So I guess Final Fantasy or a FF spin-off)
It's absolutely true that Square Enix has the final say in Luminous Productions, but I think it's strange to see Square Enix do a possible 180 on Luminous Productions only half a year after it was officially created. The original announcement about Luminous Productions seemed to signify that Square Enix was placing a high level of trust in Tabata, but for him to leave the company only six months lather makes it sound like there was either some sort of drastic change in what Square Enix wanted out of Luminous Productions, or Square Enix was becoming dissatisfied with how Luminous Productions was being managed.