Why is Dragon Quest largely ignored by the Western JRPG Community?

Tibarn · Nov 8, 2018

Heartskips said:
Fire Emblem.

Fire Emblem is far more appealing for the west IMO. Tactic games work well, the shift to a more "easy to play" experience made Awakening a far less "obscure" game, the new art style from the 3DS games looks less a 90s anime and more like what anime fans like nowadays... And it's not popular only between weebs, the gameplay is addictive and deep, and even if I despise the new marriage/child mechanics, some people really like to min/max using these.

And yeah, Nintendo clearly knows how to market and sell the games on all the markets.

Joffy · Nov 8, 2018

I can only assume it's because everyone has exceptionally poor taste.

potentialtodisplease · Nov 8, 2018

I haven't bought it because there are too many F'in games out there man. Give it some time.

phonicjoy · Nov 8, 2018

Honestly, I was about to pull the trigger, then I heard the music... I've heard phone games with better music production. I cant listen to that for 60 hours. And in the past the games were always on a platform I didn't have access to.

Tibarn · Nov 8, 2018

phonicjoy said:
I cant listen to that for 60 hours.

You don't need to. I played most of the game while listening to music from other JRPGs, only using the game audio for the voices cutscenes.

phonicjoy · Nov 8, 2018

Tibarn said:
You don't need to. I played most of the game while listening to music from other JRPGs, only using the game audio for the voices cutscenes.

Im 30+, I dont know how that shit works, whippersnapper.

Edit: and honestly music is a big part of the experience for me. It just turns me off that they think they can get away with that level of production.

Tibarn · Nov 8, 2018

phonicjoy said:
Im 30+, I dont know how that shit works, whippersnapper.

Edit: and honestly music is a big part of the experience for me. It just turns me off that they think they can get away with that level of production.

I'm almost 30 lol. What I did (playing on PC) was basically mute the game and use some JRPG tracklist from YouTube or my HDD. If you play on a console you can do the same with your phone tbh. It was a basic and not so elegant solution, but the music from the game was really putting my sanity on the line after 15 hours or so.
Edit:

phonicjoy said:
Edit: and honestly music is a big part of the experience for me. It just turns me off that they think they can get away with that level of production.

Exactly. Music is what makes me remember that JRPG I played 15 years ago and want to play it again. If I remember DQ XI 5 years from now (I won't) and I think about the music, I'll only remember how good was X tracklist unrelated to the game.

Treasure Silvergun · Nov 8, 2018

Extremely traditional, pretty slow, very long, uninspiring classic "gamey" synth music, not enough anime and tiddies, for a starter.

Then you have the very poor advertising, for a series that has infrequent releases, had many releases skipped in the West before DQ8 somewhat revitalized interest in the series (but skipped 10, and 11 came out so late compared to Japan, it's like being back to the 80s), and that was completely nonexistent outside America and Japan until the PS2 era. DQ8 was the very first DQ to ever come out in Europe, and they actually dropped the "8" in the title in Europe and called it simply "Dragon Quest - Journey of the cursed king".

I also suspect that Toriyama's style may almost be a deterrent these days. DB isn't the hottest thing on the planet anymore, and maybe the series would garner more interest if the character design was commissioned to some other mangaka. The same goes for the music.

phonicjoy · Nov 8, 2018

Tibarn said:
I'm almost 30 lol. What I did (playing on PC) was basically mute the game and use some JRPG tracklist from YouTube or my HDD. If you play on a console you can do the same with your phone tbh. It was a basic and not so elegant solution, but the music from the game was really putting my sanity on the line after 15 hours or so.

Hahaha, well, I'm going to buy it when it's on sale. I am interested in it. I do enjoy old school JRPG ideas.

BassForever · Nov 8, 2018

Dragon quest is intentionally trying to make a game that feels old school. It's not easy to sell people on old school jrpg combat as the years go by. If DQ12 was an action rpg with a darker fantasy edge to it it would probably do extremely well in the west.

casiopao · Nov 8, 2018

AztecComplex said:
Many were, yes. I didn't say DQIX was a failure in the west, it wasn't! I only said they alienated longtime fans in favor of following a trend.

I think u are overstating the long time fans of DQ who buy DQ8 lol.

DQ 8 got extra boost from FF demo while Dq9 sold 1.12 mil on its SW power alone.

Deleted member 2793 · Nov 8, 2018

Tibarn said:
Fire Emblem is far more appealing for the west IMO. Tactic games work well, the shift to a more "easy to play" experience made Awakening a far less "obscure" game, the new art style from the 3DS games looks less a 90s anime and more like what anime fans like nowadays... And it's not popular only between weebs, the gameplay is addictive and deep, and even if I despise the new marriage/child mechanics, some people really like to min/max using these.

And yeah, Nintendo clearly knows how to market and sell the games on all the markets.

I agree with everything you said. I was just giving an example of another RPG that broke the "niche barrier".

From the last 5 FE releases we had 2 games breaking the 2M+ barrier (Awakening and Fates), 1 spin-off breaking 1M (Warriors), a remake doing decently (SoV) and a huge mobile hit (Heroes).

Tibarn · Nov 8, 2018

Treasure Silvergun said:
I also suspect that Toriyama's style may almost be a deterrent these days. DB isn't the hottest thing on the planet anymore, and maybe the series would garner more interest if the character design was commissioned to some other mangaka.

I dunno, I know lots of people that are not into manganime but are buying all the time DBZ related stuff (games, new editions of the manga, anime BDs...). I think the art style should be a plus at least in my region (here DBZ was really big at the time, and it was broadcasted earlier in some regions compared to the later country-wide emission).

Monster Zero · Nov 8, 2018

Archaic uninspired combat and silent protagonist is a killing blow for the western sales when you have its competition giving you a lot more. Everyone else has continued to innovate including Pokémon.

Notaskwid · Nov 8, 2018

Waifus are not waifus enough
I'm 100% sure this is a big reason why.

citrusred · Nov 8, 2018

I wouldn't say it is? JRPG's that aren't Pokemon or Final Fantasy seem to cap out at around 2 million sales and Dragon Quest got half of that in western sales before.

Xion_Stellar · Nov 8, 2018

BassForever said:
Dragon quest is intentionally trying to make a game that feels old school. It's not easy to sell people on old school jrpg combat as the years go by. If DQ12 was an action rpg with a darker fantasy edge to it it would probably do extremely well in the west.

This is exactly why I never seriously got into the series....

It feels intentionally old, I don't like the Akira Toriyama art style outside the Dragonball series, and I don't find the music peticularly memorable.

Aiustis · Nov 8, 2018

casiopao said:
Lol. If DQ9 is alienating old fans. Guess SE is even more idiot alienating DQ9 fans seeing how bad DQ11 sold on the west.

DQ9 is my second favorite after DQVII
Art style, gameplay and Square Enix' lack of consistent release times
Also the game isn't design to appeal to weebs

Tibarn · Nov 8, 2018

Xion_Stellar said:
This is exactly why I never seriously got into the series....

It feels intentionally old, I don't like the Akira Toriyama art style outside the Dragonball series, and I don't find the music peticularly memorable.

Yep.

I think that most of the people who think that the only real problem is marketing are people that really like the game, be it because they are old fans of the saga or they really like old school JRPG. When you go into DQ for the 2nd time as I did with XI, and without a big attachment to the saga, it's really easy to see why the games are not that successful in the west.

Dogui · Nov 8, 2018

1 - They're clearly not ignored. DQVIII and IX didn't just sold decently in west, they sold a lot more than most dear Snes/PS1JRPGs with huge fanbases on hardcore forums, including Xenogears and probably any Suikoden.

2- People assume that JRPG players are all on PS4 for some reason. Let's be real, the PS4 output for classic turn based jrpgs is not very big. The 3DS was a very bigger beast at this regard, and along with DS, they're the biggest libraries in the genre after PS1/2. DQXI also released on PC but it brings another point.

3 - I don't think most JRPG players give two shits about playing games day one. They probably have huge backlogs, and are waiting for a big sale in PC's case. A lot of DQ fans are also waiting for it on Switch, since they probably prefer to play it on a portable.

Famassu · Nov 8, 2018

Reinhard said:
The only true mainstream JRPG series is Final Fantasy in the West, maybe KH but skipping the 360/PS3 era didn't help. Persona is now in the weird space of not being quite mainstream but definitely not niche anymore with 2+ million sold worldwide with I believe only 25% of that Japanese. Other JRPGs, though, are very niche with a vocal, passionate audience who do consistently buy the latest entries. So the JRPGs often do decently in sales in the West and are talked about a bunch on sites like ResetEra, so that might make them not seem quite so niche, but in reality they still really are and rarely sell above 1 million aside from the occasional breakout like P5 or Nier: Automata.

As for DQ11 specifically, it had a horrible release date and little marketing so it sold as expected in the West. Plus, it is a very traditional game as the Japanese audience wants, while the breakout hits tend to do something different like the school/social aspect + slick interface of P5.

Dragon Quest IX was marketed to hell and back in the west, its release date was arguably better and it was released on the, what, like second best selling gaming device of all time that kept turning out hit after hit.

And it has sold maybe 150k more copies than DQXI so far.

DQ simply isn't the kind of game that will ever be a multimillion seller outside Japan without massive changes to the formula that make it more appealing to more western fans (which could alienate Japanese long time fans and potentially make for a +/-0 situation overall, at best).

I don't think the past/nostalgia or consistent release schefule are nearly as important as some of you make them seem. Plenty of franchises have been niche in the past but modernization and/or some changes to the formula has launched them to more mainstream success. Capcom took a risk with Monster Hunter World and that turned a relatively unknown & unsuccessful franchise (outside Japan) and turned it into a massive multi-million seller. Persona was super obscure before 3 made some big changes that appealed to a larger number of people and 4 refined & improved those even further to increasing success, which carried on to 5, even though it took for-fucking-ever to be released.

Ultimately I think the situation is such that it seems like Dragon Quest can't find Japan-level success in the West without some noticeable shake-up to the formula that would make more people take notice. What that shake-up should entail (that wouldn't simultaneously turn off masses of Japanese fans), I do not know. More cinematic approach? Darker/more mature tone? A flashier, faster paced combat system (maybe still turn-based but up the ante a lot when it comes to the visual spectacle)? Otherwise I don't think doubling or tripling the marketing budget and moving the release date a month here or there is going to matter enough to push it from 1 million to 2-3+ million copies sold in the West.

Deleted member 2793 · Nov 8, 2018

Famassu said:
And it has sold maybe 150k more copies than DQXI so far.

The difference is more like 600~500k actually considering DQXI is 500K< in the west.

Deleted member 36622 · Nov 8, 2018

Following Kinda Funny i realized there are still many people who only play western AAA games or indie, and when you talk about those classic JRPGs they are like
"EWWW, No Thanks!" "Another one of those weird japanese games..." and they avoid all Japanese games that don't try to be more global. Even among other gaming communities sometimes they treat Dragon Quest with respect only because they know how important this franchise is, but then they act the same for any other JRPG.

(Not that i have something against people's tastes, but i think we should all be more open-minded)

In that sense Dragon Quest does nothing to appeal the western audience (at least 9 tried to shake the formula), it's the classic JRPG experience with all its limitations, with all the grind,... so i bet most of these people really hate this franchise.

On top of that there is also SE's weird timing, waiting at least a year for the western release, often releasing the game at the end of the life-cycle, and they don't push it as much as Kingdom Hearts or Final Fantasy.

Famassu · Nov 8, 2018

Heartskips said:
The difference is more like 600~500k actually considering DQXI is 500K< in the west.

Oh, it's only 500k? For some reason I thought it was somewhere along 850k or so.

Diego Renault · Nov 8, 2018

2 things I always didn't like. In the earlier games the fact that you couldn't see you party members fighing (first person view). 2nd, the music, which I just don't like a at all.

They've fixed my first complaint in the recent DQ games, but the music is still keeping me away.

Once they fix the music - that's means completely change it - I'm gonna be willing to try out my first Dragon Quest game.

eXistor · Nov 8, 2018

I hardly know anyone who's into jrpg's but the few that are love DQ.

/edit: outside myself I meant, I love DQ too.

Tibarn · Nov 8, 2018

eXistor said:
I hardly know anyone who's into jrpg's but the few that are love DQ.

My situation is the exact opposite.

Monster Zero · Nov 8, 2018

Famassu said:
Oh, it's only 500k? For some reason I thought it was somewhere along 850k or so.

Its less than 500k.

andymcc · Nov 8, 2018

Deleted member 36622 · Nov 8, 2018

Treasure Silvergun said:
I also suspect that Toriyama's style may almost be a deterrent these days. DB isn't the hottest thing on the planet anymore, and maybe the series would garner more interest if the character design was commissioned to some other mangaka. The same goes for the music.

For me the opposite is true.

There is not enough Toriyama's style in this game, just let him design the world also, i think it would look more unique, and more people would recognize his influence. (but that's not the point of DQ, right?)

andymcc · Nov 8, 2018

Treasure Silvergun said:
Extremely traditional, pretty slow, very long, uninspiring classic "gamey" synth music, not enough anime and tiddies, for a starter.

Then you have the very poor advertising, for a series that has infrequent releases, had many releases skipped in the West before DQ8 somewhat revitalized interest in the series (but skipped 10, and 11 came out so late compared to Japan, it's like being back to the 80s), and that was completely nonexistent outside America and Japan until the PS2 era. DQ8 was the very first DQ to ever come out in Europe, and they actually dropped the "8" in the title in Europe and called it simply "Dragon Quest - Journey of the cursed king".

I also suspect that Toriyama's style may almost be a deterrent these days. DB isn't the hottest thing on the planet anymore, and maybe the series would garner more interest if the character design was commissioned to some other mangaka. The same goes for the music.

Dragon Ball is more popular internationally right now than during the time of the original manga/anime run.....

Brawly Likes to Brawl · Nov 8, 2018

Because the series is prone to multi-year gaps where none of its games get translated?

Every time SE decides to bring a DQ over they basically have to work from the bottom up in building its name.

Durante · Nov 8, 2018

It doesn't really do anything sufficiently new or exciting in terms of gameplay that would by itself make it a topic of discussion.
(A recent RPG - though not J - that really broke into popularity on this basis was D:OS)
This is admittedly completely subjective, but I (as someone who plays a fuckton of JRPGs) just don't find Toriyama's art appealing at all, and I've heard similar sentiments.
It's not actually doing bad, it's just very far from its popularity in Japan.
If you just see it as an average JRPG in the West, it's actually doing really well!

Tibarn · Nov 8, 2018

Durante said:
It doesn't really do anything sufficiently new or exciting in terms of gameplay that would by itself make it a topic of discussion.

This is also true.

I can speak all the day about how gorgeous the game is or how bad the music is, but the gameplay itself feels too "safe" and "unexciting". I'm not saying that is not deep, but the combat system feels like "another turn-based JRPG", I never felt like grinding while playing, and I don't think it allows a lot of discussion at this point.

Famassu · Nov 8, 2018

Brawly Likes to Brawl said:
Because the series is prone to multi-year gaps where none of its games get translated?

Every time SE decides to bring a DQ over they basically have to work from the bottom up in building its name.

Plenty of franchises have long gaps between releases and that doesn't affect their popularity, and DQ isn't even the worst offender. DQ has had plenty of western releases past its NES/SNES years, especially after DQVIII. Many if not even the majority of spin offs and remasters/ports/remakes have been released in the West past VIII. Not quite all but enough of them that it's not like the franchise goes much more than a year or at most two without some game or the other being released in the west. Other than Slime 2 and Theatrhythm: DQ, what DQ game hasn't been localized in recent years?

Jawmuncher · Nov 8, 2018

I think its old school style just isn't of interest to the western community at large. There's nothing in DQ11 that would really stand out to someone not large into JRPGs.
FF always gets past this due to legacy and the usual Sci-fi setting they encompass it seems.

Tibarn · Nov 8, 2018

Jawmuncher said:
FF always gets past this due to legacy and the usual Sci-fi setting they encompass it seems.

Yeah, I know some players that buy every single FF game mostly because they loved VII at the day, they played all the PsX and Ps2 games and they associate FF to quality JRPG. And most of them don't usually play other JRPGs. It's nostalgia, as it is DQ for Japanese players.

Riversands · Nov 8, 2018

Treasure Silvergun said:
Extremely traditional, pretty slow, very long, uninspiring classic "gamey" synth music, not enough anime and tiddies, for a starter.

It does the game does the best. It doesnt pretend to be something it doesnt want to be. For that i'm pretty grateful

Deleted member 437 · Nov 8, 2018

I love jrpgs.

I think dq combat is old and stale. I'll probably never recommend the series to any of my friends. Xi is the last dq game I'll probably ever buy.

Parfait · Nov 8, 2018

ULTROS! said:
So is Star Ocean (2 and 3) but no one talks about SO anymore. :(

I will talk to you about Star Ocean for hours, it's my favorite series.

Starlatine · Nov 8, 2018

the only rpgs i see people talking more than dragon quest are final fantasy and persona.

i have no idea where you are coming of with this huge suikoden community out there but i sure wish it was true

Augemitbutter · Nov 8, 2018

Not sure. I always see plenty of DQ topics on boards. It's an active series.

Mikey Jr. said:
I love jrpgs.

I think dq combat is old and stale. I'll probably never recommend the series to any of my friends. Xi is the last dq game I'll probably ever buy.

It's only old and stale because the default difficulty is way too easy. Love DQ but i understand if people fall asleep when you can mash or set the game to autoplay from beginning to end.

Jonneh · Nov 8, 2018

They gotta bring these ads back!

Shawn The Wonder · Nov 8, 2018

Tibarn said:
-SE doesn't even try marketing with the franchise
-They come really late to the west
-Nostalgia is one of the biggest strong points of DQ, and the west (especially Europe) has no such nostalgia
-Even for JRPG players like myself, the lack of modern gameplay or a story that is not your typical "heroes vs villain" makes the game not so appealing

The art style is not for everyone, but considering that DBZ and Toriyama are really beloved in Europe, this should be a selling point and not the opposite.

As I've said countless times, I got REALLY bored with XI, it's not a game that appeals to me, but that's right. It sells well enough in Japan and it has a passionate (maybe too passionate) fanbase. The real question is, it's really worthy to make the game more appealing to the mass market while losing traditional fans?

DBZ is big here too don't forget that! Shit most popular anime like in general here.

Jimbojim · Nov 8, 2018

Mediking said:
I'm actually a fan of DQ but this silent bland protag has got to go.

I couldn't agree with you more!

MysteryQuesadilla · Nov 8, 2018

In JRPG circles its not. To the wider gaming public in the west? Yeah, its just not a thing here.

Monster Zero · Nov 8, 2018

Starlatine said:
the only rpgs i see people talking more than dragon quest are final fantasy and persona.

i have no idea where you are coming of with this huge suikoden community out there but i sure wish it was true

Xenoblade is more popular in the west than Dragon Quest.

CortexVortex · Nov 8, 2018

It's a niche genre and DQ might not be as popular as FF, Persona or Xenoblade but it's still way more popular that most other entries in the genre. But if SE keeps releasing these games on consoles it will become bigger and bigger.

Raw64life · Nov 8, 2018

30 years of incompetence from Enix and Square-Enix America. You can go all the back to the very first game that they had to give away for free with a Nintendo Power subscription. They should've made DW2 easier for western audiences, but didn't. By the time 3 and 4 came over, the SNES was already out. Didn't bother releasing 5 or 6 here at all at a time where RPGs exploded in popularity. 1993-2000 was the golden age of RPGs in the west, and zero DQ games were released in the west during that time. Released 7 after the PS2 was already out. Then they finally hit with 8 but did absolutely nothing to capitalize on it. Pawn 9 off to Nintendo, Nintendo makes it a hit and S-E....again does nothing to capitalize on it.

Severe lack of marketing. Terrible release dates. Waiting several years to localize games. Not localizing games at all. No attempt to capitalize on the successes they do have. It's not just with DQXI. They've been bungling this shit for 30 years.

Dest · Nov 8, 2018

Square Enix doesn't market these games at all, which is probably the biggest reason.
Square Enix makes the West wait for localization for a year+. Even people who were interested from the start will lose interest.
With DQ11, they released it at a really bad time considering how saturated the market already was.

Why is Dragon Quest largely ignored by the Western JRPG Community?

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