Girl Scouts of America suing Boy Scouts for their new gender neutral name and use of 'girl scouts'

Do they have to be sworn in with a bible or is scouts honour sufficient?

seems pretty petty

I'm not sure how to react. Yay? No? Way to go? Why??

This doesn't seem like a good look for them?

Sounds like a cash grab from a dying organization. But it's a good opportunity for scouts to get their judicial litigation badges.

Despite the names, Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts have always been separate orgs. The issue is over trademark, they're saying that Boy Scouts is intentionally muddying the waters by abusing trademark similarity. I think they have a case, as a lot of people think the Boy Scouts and Girl Scout orgs just merged.

Making plays on their turf, being more accepting and allowing girls to join probably means they might lose some *girl scouts* aka money.

KojiKnight said:

It's absolutely a stupid argument. They are arguing that after 100+ years of existence that BSA suddenly has no right to the word "scout" or "scouting" and that it's illegal for the Boy Scouts to change their name to anything that doesn't have the word 'Boy' directly in the title. No where has BSA claimed that they merged with the Girl Scouts, and I highly doubt anyone thinks that they've merged just because the Boy Scouts are accepting girls.


From the article

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Seems to me the Boy Scouts are basically sniping all the work the Girl Scouts have done over the years for recruitment. They could rename themselves to Scouts of America or something instead of going with an intentionally vague initialism.

Additionally, you're required by trademark law to persue action against any possible defense of your trademark as later uses could cause you to lose your trademark if they can point out you let another one go.

Kids just aren't as interested in activities outside the house these days, and I'd imagine the pool of kids looking to join either organization will be continuously shrinking. They pretty much need to either merge or begin poaching kids from the other program. BSA appears to have realized this ealier than the GSA.

Am I the only person who imaged a bunch of 8 year old girl scouts serving a subpoena to the BSA?

The whole concept feels outdated tbh.

hotcyder said:

Am I the only person who imaged a bunch of 8 year old girl scouts serving a subpoena to the BSA?

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they open the box of tagalongs and it's in the box along with rocks

It's outdated to have separate orgs. They should just merge.

Box said:

The whole concept feels outdated tbh.

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Scouting? Not at all. I was a boy scout and was a scout master for my son's cub scouts. The boys learn tons of cool things and get to be in nature rather than spending the weekend playing videogames.

This...seems stupid

The Boy Scouts is a fundamentalist piece of shit organization. They are trying to co-opt all of the work that the (secular) Girl Scouts have been doing in cultivating scouting for girls now that its culturally and financially expedient to do so.

Girl Scouts is pretty awful

Not surprised that most families decided to double down with the BSA and props to BSA for being inclusive

SG-17 said:

The Boy Scouts is a fundamentalist piece of shit organization. They are trying to co-opt all of the work that the (secular) Girl Scouts have been doing in cultivating scouting for girls now that its culturally and financially expedient to do so.

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Also this is also true lol

How about the name 'scout' ?

Zoc said:

It's outdated to have separate orgs. They should just merge.

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Instead watch the GS accepting boys in their ranks to spit the BS.

Or they are already doing this?

Zoc said:

It's outdated to have separate orgs. They should just merge.

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Girl Scouts has been a really inclusive, progressive organization while the Boy Scouts only recently started making their way there after a lot of bad press.

Girl Scouts likely feel like all the work they did in that area is now being coopted by BSA

I also like the implication that Girl Scouts are desperate when it's Boy Scouts that suddenly wants to accept women because they were losing new members constantly from their long held homophobia and other bullshit.

Fiction said:

Girl Scouts has been a really inclusive, progressive organization while the Boy Scouts only recently started making their way there after a lot of bad press.

Girl Scouts likely feel like all the work they did in that area is now being coopted by BSA

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shouldn't that be the ultimate goal of a progressive organization? to make others more progressive as well?

So, is the cookies the scouts sell in US of A any good?

John Dunbar said:

shouldn't that be the ultimate goal of a progressive organization? to make others more progressive as well?

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Of course, but given recent history, BSAs dropping membership, and the fact that it still is heavily religious, its understandable to doubt their altruism.

hotcyder said:

Am I the only person who imaged a bunch of 8 year old girl scouts serving a subpoena to the BSA?

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I honestly imagined a bunch of 8 years old girls going full yakuza at timmy's house

John Dunbar said:

shouldn't that be the ultimate goal of a progressive organization? to make others more progressive as well?

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You're conflating two things.

Girl Scouts isn't specifically against Boy Scouts recruiting girls.

Girl Scouts is specifically suing over the Boy Scouts using intentional vagueness and similarity of trademark to use all the work/marketing Girl Scouts has done to build recognition with their trademark to recruit girls to their own organization, essentially stealing their trademark's goodwill and all their work.

Since they're both in the same area of industry, making them now direct competitors, this is a fairly solid case of trademark infringement. They'd prefer the Boy Scouts choose a new name that makes it more clear they have no association with Girl Scouts, since they've gone with the vague "Scouts" and making the "BSA" text really small.

If the Boy Scouts of America was to be eliminated, I wouldn't be sad. We, at least among my scout group here in Sweden and many more I met at a jamboree when I was a active scout, considered them a blight upon the scout movement with their homophobia and other shit.

America needs a new scout organization that is gender inclusive and has no discrimation. It also needs to keep cut off any ties to any religious organizations that could influence it negatively (looking at you, BSA and Mormons).

KojiKnight said:

It's absolutely a stupid argument. They are arguing that after 100+ years of existence that BSA suddenly has no right to the word "scout" or "scouting" and that it's illegal for the Boy Scouts to change their name to anything that doesn't have the word 'Boy' directly in the title. No where has BSA claimed that they merged with the Girl Scouts, and I highly doubt anyone thinks that they've merged just because the Boy Scouts are accepting girls.

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It isn't just the Girl Scouts of America, quite many outside the US. thinks the Boy Scouts organization doesn't deserve to be called Scouts. Boy Organization of Mormon Worshippers in the Woods is a lot more fitting.

FyreWulff said:

You're conflating two things.

Girl Scouts isn't specifically against Boy Scouts recruiting girls.

Girl Scouts is specifically suing over the Boy Scouts using intentional vagueness and similarity of trademark to use all the work/marketing Girl Scouts has done to build recognition with their trademark to recruit girls to their own organization, essentially stealing their trademark's goodwill and all their work.

Since they're both in the same area of industry, making them competitors, this is a fairly solid case of trademark infringement.

They're not saying they own the word Scout outright, they're saying they own it in relation to child-oriented life skills and development services.

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i understand that, but i think the former boy scouts have too good a common sense argument for me to care about trademarks. they are no longer only accepting boys, so they're simply dropping it from their name. their motivation may simply be their crashing membership numbers, but that is totally irrelevant to me if they're actually trying to be more inclusive. the question i have is if the girl scouts are so progressive then why haven't they dropped the girl from their name ages ago.

Girl Scouts should be concerned. Their primary goal is to sell cookies and they need scouts to make that happen.

Skeleton said:

Do they have to be sworn in with a bible or is scouts honour sufficient?

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I just like to acknowledge Mormonism exiting Scouts is the best thing to happen to the organization. That said, nobody was ever sworn into becoming a scout. You just show up. There are century old scout laws, oaths, mottos, and pledges. Those broadly acknowledge a God, but a Bible is never introduced in any ceremony. Scouting really does suport all religions. There are not one but three Muslim badges, with one award officially called the "Allahu Akbar Emblem" - although there are no athiest badges. I wouldn't be suprised if there was one soon.

My biggest beef with the Boy Scouts is its wholesale bastardization of American Indian traditions.

It should be noted something similar happened before - Boys Club of America. In 1990, they changed their name to Boys & Girls Club and started advertising to families that girls could also take part in the facilities and programs.. There was already a Girls Club of America, and they ended up having to change their name to Girls Inc.

Nerdyone said:

Scouting? Not at all. I was a boy scout and was a scout master for my son's cub scouts. The boys learn tons of cool things and get to be in nature rather than spending the weekend playing videogames.

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Yeah I did it in the eighties in the UK but it was pretty common then. I rarely hear of anyone with children at scouts or guides these days. Shame from the outdoor and skills perspective. Not sure if doubling down on the distinction between the two sends the right message in 2018, but I don't know the differences in the organisations across the pond.

KojiKnight said:

I highly doubt anyone thinks that they've merged just because the Boy Scouts are accepting girls.

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Two of my coworkers actually were talking last night about how they thought they merged, and had I not seen this thread I would have been liable to think that too since I don't really stay up-to-date on scouting news.

SG-17 said:

The Boy Scouts is a fundamentalist piece of shit organization. They are trying to co-opt all of the work that the (secular) Girl Scouts have been doing in cultivating scouting for girls now that its culturally and financially expedient to do so.

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Yeah, Girl Scouts have always been fairly radical and progressive and the Boy Scouts are aggressively not. Maybe it seems cynical, but in 2018's America I wouldn't be surprised if they're trying to recruit girls to deliberately undermine the more progressive space the Girl Scouts provide and create an alternative more Christian minded sort of a place, you know.

Fight!

Girl scouts afraid of becoming obsolete

Zoc said:

It's outdated to have separate orgs. They should just merge.

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The entire reason there are two different organizations is because the Boy Scouts refused women while the Girl Scouts not only obviously accepted women, but all women including actively recruited non-white members. In 1975 a black woman was the head of the organization while Boy Scouts still had some of their troops entirely segregated. The same disagreements have continued over gender, sexuality, and religion. They're not just two similar-minded places that can just merge and call it a day. They are ideologically opposed in almost every way except that they both think the outdoors is good for kids.

Box said:

The whole concept feels outdated tbh.

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This country needs more civic engagement/appreciation of nature if it wishes to survive.

The Scouts removing religious overtones, sexism, trans/homophobia but keeping everything else is a good thing.

Recent news about these two organizations has me looking favorably upon the Boy Scouts and unfavorably on the Girls Scouts. This just reinforces that.

SliceSabre said:

Recent news about these two organizations has me looking favorably upon the Boy Scouts and unfavorably on the Girls Scouts. This just reinforces that.

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Why? What news?

Keasar said:

America needs a new scout organization that is gender inclusive and has no discrimation. It also needs to keep cut off any ties to any religious organizations that could influence it negatively (looking at you, BSA and Mormons).

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LDS are leaving the BSA and forming their own youth development program, in part because of new inclusiveness the BSA has adopted (accepting openly gay scouts and leaders, for one). Here's an article about it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...oy-scouts-and-reality/?utm_term=.c31b7fb0482a

Maybe we shouldn't be attacking and punishing a kids organization for trying to be more inclusive and progressive.

Girl Scouts still have the cookies.

Serious question: Why don't the two of them mergers?

Maximo said:

Making plays on their turf, being more accepting and allowing girls to join probably means they might lose some *girl scouts* aka money.

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This

sure they should merge

... if the girl scounts lead them.

Rvaan said:

Serious question: Why don't the two of them mergers?

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They're businesses...

HotHamBoy said:

Maybe we shouldn't be attacking and punishing a kids organization for trying to be more inclusive and progressive.

Girl Scouts still have the cookies.

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lol. I always forget about the Boy Scouts, but I remember the Girl Scouts 'cause they sell some pretty flames cookies.

Girl Scouts is still light years ahead of Boy Scouts in terms of being a progressive organization. Girl Scouts does not require a belief in god and has versions of their pledge that does not reference a deity for those who do not believe, for one. For another, Girl Scouts recognizes trans girls as girls and accepts anyone who identifies as a girl. Even IF Girl Scouts wanted to merge with Boy Scouts, both those policies would be hard stops for the more regressive Boy Scouts.

Rvaan said:

Serious question: Why don't the two of them mergers?

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Because they are not the same. Girl Scouts do things much differently than Boy Scouts, and that's on top of GS being rather progressive and BS being rather fundamental. You're basically asking why they don't just throw away decades of work building the brand and program just to make it all a bit less confusing.

I'm on the Girl Scouts side here, and the law definitely will be too. If Boy Scouts want to let girls go in, that's great. I'd even consider letting my daughter join if I had one. But they should not get to destroy the Girl Scouts organization when they do so by stealing their name. They won't get to, either. They're definitely losing this trademark case.