Dragon Quest XI worldwide shipments tops 4 million

the_mentalist89 said:

i don't get why persona 5 sold so well and this not

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Persona 5 is the culmination of several well received Persona games, with an aesthetic and tone that differentiates itself from 'typical' JRPGs while DQ has barely any brand equity in the West, relies on a nostalgia that isn't present here, and looks from the outside as a cliche fantasy rpg

Oregano said:

Y'all dreaming if you think the Switch version is going to make much of a difference. Nintendo published DQ Builders and it doesn't appear to have sold anything significant.

DQXI was a strategic failure, it will end up as a pyrrhic victory at best. Even worse it's now set the expectation that they will develop games for two very different power profiles. I can't see them wanting to make separate versions of XII for Switch and PS5, and considering how much they have struggled to port a PS4 game to Switch a straight multiplatform is out of the question.

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Pretty much. On top of that, DQ11 3DS sadly was just a reaction, basically damage control, when they finally realized that the DQ11 project as a whole would massively underperform otherwise. That the first ever announced Switch game ever, is still with no publicly shown footage, is also another situation that won't benefit its sales potential.

This is sad. It did really bad in the US, it deserves to sell so much more.

It's a great game. Way better than whatever FFXV was. Way better than... well, a lot of games that sell so much more. This sucks.

These results were pretty much expected, looking at the social metrics that this game has pre-release.

It's important to recognise 2 things.

People buy games that they are interested in or games that are able to interest them.
Based off historical precedence? We know the size of the people in the former ( people who are interested in DQ ) is a low amount outside Japan.
Based off social metrics ( trailer views, engagement on twitter, social media, etc, influencers, the wow factor that generates interest for the product outside of echo chamber )?
DQ11 failed in pretty much every respect.

A game can score amazingly well on metacritic, and it doesn't matter at all if people have already made up their mind that the game isn't in their radar.

By comparison, games like NieR Automata, Xenoblade 2 and Persona 5 had wayyyyy stronger social metrics. Those games managed to interest and engage an audience that is more than just their original IP fanbase.

SolicitorPirate said:

The Switch would help, but the fundamentals restricting DQ11's success in the West would remain the same.

There'll be a nice boost, but I just don't see how the Switch would change DQ11's path

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Fundamentally it was released at a bad time with poor marketing, both things that Nintendo is much better at handling than Square Enix ever will. No use attributing to the game what can be attributed to poor executive decisions.

DQXI reviewed very well and it is coming from an audience that is typically totally removed from the nostalgia the series brings. It has undeniable qualities that can shine on the go. It is an alluring proposition for many.

Dreamboum said:

That's saying the two audience are deeply overlapping, which isn't confirmed. A western release would have Nintendo publishing it, with the added benefit of being a high-end AAA experience on the go, with whatever frills SQEX adds, and most likely at a better time of the year than DQXI.

That's without saying it's a much more recent game in the series rather than remakes, which is a much better proposition for value.

The Switch isn't at a period where it is hurting in software and hardware sales, and it isn't so deeply swarmed with JRPGs that it can easily avoid such a high profile game just because other platforms got it months before.

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This is only true if DQ11 is an appealing product, and I'm sorry, but I really don't think it is.

Aesthetically, it looks like a tried and tired fantasy RPG. Mechanically, it is an incredibly old school turn based rpg, which is a school of design that simply no longer resonates with the market. And the DQ brand itself relies heavily on nostalgia that doesn't exist in the West.

A DQ Switch would basically appeal to people who were already fans of DQ but who either didn't have a PS4 or wanted to play it on the go. I highly doubt it would be able to do anything to broaden its appeal beyond that fairly limited cohort.

Dreamboum said:

DQXI reviewed very well and it is coming from an audience that is typically totally removed from the nostalgia the series brings. It has undeniable qualities that can shine on the go. It is an alluring proposition for many.

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DQXI reviewed well, but the metrics of the consumer ( not reviewer ) engagement data showed that unless reviews or marketing of the game managed to inform them that there was more to the game that what was expressly shown to them via reviews/trailers/etc, it was not an alluring proposition at all.

So Dragon Quest XI didn't do even better worlwide than Dragon Quest IX did in Japan, right ?

I think Square Enix should have released the 3DS version in the West. Then the Switch version will come so late not sure of the impact it will have.

So, DQ in the West is still performing bad, despite all the effort the put in it.
As a fan of the IP, that really make me sad, is there really no hope for it to reach mainstream appeal? Do we have to blame graphics/music/gameplay?

Ouch, not good. I dunno what Square are expecting when they market the western release so poorly.

Oregano said:

Looks like DQIX will remain undefeated.

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As it should. (I wish I could like XI just as much but the endgame is kinda a mess)

werezompire said:

Worldwide, DQ11 sold WAY more than Persona 5 did (4 million vs just over 2 million), it's just that Persona 5 looks like it's selling better outside Japan. And it makes plenty of sense to me - Persona has been positioned as a "cool" modern series whereas Dragon Quest's big selling point has long been high quality nostalgia. The problem is that DQ never reached the kind of popularity that FF did outside Japan (the SNES releases were completely skipped and the series never had a mega-hit in the West like FF7) so most people in the West don't have a lot of nostalgia for the series.

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SolicitorPirate said:

Persona 5 is the culmination of several well received Persona games, with an aesthetic and tone that differentiates itself from 'typical' JRPGs while DQ has barely any brand equity in the West, relies on a nostalgia that isn't present here, and looks from the outside as a cliche fantasy rpg

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this dq isn't just nostalgia , it is a solid game , modern in almost everything and improve everything from the past and i think it is quite better then persona 5.
I guess the problem was the lack of hype , for persona 5 the fanbase made it appear like a masterpiece was coming out .

Dreamboum said:

Fundamentally it was released at a bad time with poor marketing, both things that Nintendo is much better at handling than Square Enix ever will. No use attributing to the game what can be attributed to poor executive decisions.

DQXI reviewed very well and it is coming from an audience that is typically totally removed from the nostalgia the series brings. It has undeniable qualities that can shine on the go. It is an alluring proposition for many.

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Sure, SE's handling of the release did the game no favours, but you can't possibly think that better marketing would have done any more than maybe bump up the number by 100k to 200k at most.

Regardless of the quality, DQ11 is fundamentally an unappealing game. It's a super old school fantasy RPG with turn based combat, not to mention other weird fuckery like it's midi music. There's nothing about that package that would suggest it would broadly appealing to Western gamers in 2018

By the time DQXI releases on Switch Square Enix alone will have released more than 10 JRPGs, a bunch of which are some of the most beloved JRPGs of all time.

There's nothing special about DQXI which means Switch owners will have to pay attention to it.

So the people who claimed it sold well in the West a few weeks back were wrong? Not surprised.

Kouriozan said:

Do we have to blame graphics/music/gameplay?

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Graphics in XI are really good, music is really bad, and gameplay depends on how "classic" you want your JRPG.

It's clear to me that marketing and bad release date are in fault here, but as a JRPG player that has no previous attachment to DQ except DQ VIII, XI didn't change my opinion that the series is not for me. In fact, I was the only person from my group of friends (most of us play lots of JRPG or RPG) that played XI, the opinion from my friends was always: DQ is bland and boring, too classic. And after completing the game I can't disagree with them.

Even so, there's some sales potential with the games even if SE doesn't make them more appealing for the western market.

the_mentalist89 said:

this dq isn't just nostalgia , it is a solid game , modern in almost everything and improve everything from the past and i think it is quite better then persona 5.
I guess the problem was the lack of hype , for persona 5 the fanbase made it appear like a masterpiece was coming out .

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It doesn't matter if it's a solid game if people didn't care for it.

And yes, hype and excitement were big factors for Persona 5's success... just as are most front-loaded games that sell a significant amount of copies within the first 1-2 weeks.

At the core of it, it cannot be denied that Persona has both a more ubiquitous IP brand recognition in the west ( not just with game audience, but anime audience ), it's far more bold and striking in terms of immediate visual appeal ( the themes, bold colours, unique look, all are aspects that make people turn their heads even if it's not their type of game ), and compared to Dragon Quest, Persona's always had a stronger love among many popular influencers in the hardcore gaming sphere. You don't find many with Greg Miller's popularity or reach championing DQ the same way they've championed Persona.

All those factors combined matter.

Ex-Actarus said:

I think Square Enix should have released the 3DS version in the West.

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Seeing these results for the console version, I think a 3DS localization wouldn't even make them any profit. From a business point of view, it was (sadly) probably the right decision.

Kouriozan said:

So, DQ in the West is still performing bad, despite all the effort the put in it.
As a fan of the IP, that really make me sad, is there really no hope for it to reach mainstream appeal? Do we have to blame graphics/music/gameplay?

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Pretty much. Everything that makes it a cultural touchstone in Japan also makes it unappealing to the West

the_mentalist89 said:

this dq isn't just nostalgia , it is a solid game , modern in almost everything and improve everything from the past and i think it is quite better then persona 5.
I guess the problem was the lack of hype , for persona 5 the fanbase made it appear like a masterpiece was coming out .

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I think Persona 5 is garbage, but that doesn't matter. It's an incredibly striking game with a narrative that at attempts to resonate and be relevant to modern life. Hell, even it's turn based combat feels faster paced and more modern thanks to it's stylish presentation.

I don't see the point in only analyzing 60 dollar price point sales. It's a pointless exercise in this market. Call me after a year and we'll talk. The game hasn't even begun to sell on platforms at a sale.

I agree this game just doesn't have that 60 dollar edge to it for modern consumers. We'll see how it does at the 20-40 point.

Nightengale said:

It doesn't matter if it's a solid game if people didn't care for it.

And yes, hype and excitement were big factors for Persona 5's success... just as are most front-loaded games that sell a significant amount of copies within the first 1-2 weeks.

At the core of it, it cannot be denied that Persona has both a more ubiquitous IP brand recognition in the west ( not just with game audience, but anime audience ), it's far more bold and striking in terms of immediate visual appeal ( the themes, bold colours, unique look, all are aspects that make people turn their heads even if it's not their type of game ), and compared to Dragon Quest, Persona's always had a stronger love among many popular influencers in the hardcore gaming sphere. You don't find many with Greg Miller's popularity or reach championing DQ the same way they've championed Persona.

All those factors combined matter.

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I don't totally agree with the comments on art at all. DQ11 has a gorgeous look to it.

I'm honestly only expecting 200K for the Switch version in Japan + 200K~ overseas.

That said, if the rumours about a Dragon Quest character being a Smash DLC are true, it may bump the western numbers a little bit (not much tho).

DQXI was next on my "to buy" list. But now Soul Calibur 6 has also made the list, and I'm REALLY itching for Diablo on the Switch.

So I'm hoping for a decent sale on BF.

Oregano said:

By the time DQXI releases on Switch Square Enix alone will have released more than 10 JRPGs, a bunch of which are some of the most beloved JRPGs of all time.

There's nothing special about DQXI which means Switch owners will have to pay attention to it.

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That we'll see FFX/X-2 and Final Fantasy 12 launched on Switch in the next months, games that for sure were greenlit much later, really puts in perspective how late they are with DQ11 on Switch.

I keep hearing that "DQXI didn't got marketing, so it failed!" but i don't know, here in France there where some marketing for it, and not a few, I remember seeing many Youtube and Twitch Ad, Ads on videogames websites, even an ad in a free daily paper given in all the big cities, that's more than what Octopath or XC2 got here.
So sure Spiderman's marketing were huge so DQ on paled before it, but it was not non-existant at all.

And wasn't DQ's release date annouced before Spiderman's? The fact that it was in the same time than Spiderman isn't more a fact of not wanting to delay more an already delayed game?

Seems like a game that would do well with the much more diverse Switch audience. If your game is a broad appeal type of game, you really want to release it on the Switch. Lets see how the S version will perform but I suspect it will blow away expectations.

They botched the release on Nintendo platforms and that's what happen.

3DS version should have been out a year before, and Switch day and date with PS4, then they'd have reached DQIX level of success.

Nightengale said:

IYou don't find many with Greg Miller's popularity or reach championing DQ the same way they've championed Persona.

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Greg Miller is great but at the same time annoying because of that: he's like super fan of Persona but doesn't give a fuck about Shin Megami Tensei. WTF?

Heartskips said:

That said, if the rumours about a Dragon Quest character being a Smash DLC are true, it may bump the western numbers a little bit (not much tho).

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I'd say that more than rumors, all the talk about DQ in Smash DLC is the fanbase speculating about SE character because of the Verg. leaks. It goes full circle and now they seem like rumors, but I doubt any source said anything specific about DQ.

Too bad it's such an excellent game. When people complains why there's no more triple a turn based JRPG. That's why, it should've sold more. I know two big JRPG fan that for some reason refused to buy it.

DQ IX virtually untouchable then barring a miracle performance on Switch? Expected really, despite what some here deluded themselves into thinking.

Tibarn said:

I'd say that more than rumors, all the talk about DQ in Smash DLC is the fanbase speculating about SE character because of the Verg. leaks. It goes full circle and now they seem like rumors, but I doubt any source said anything specific about DQ.

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Off topic but i want DQ5 MC to be the dlc character and for he to be played like Pokemon trainer where he command monster like Slime etc in battle. Terry can work too.

600k is decent. 1million would be the sweert number like nier. Itll get there. My goty and personal favorite jrpg.

Tibarn said:

I'd say that more than rumors, all the talk about DQ in Smash DLC is the fanbase speculating about SE character because of the Verg. leaks. It goes full circle and now they seem like rumors, but I doubt any source said anything specific about DQ.

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There are rumors of a Square Enix character and knowing Nintendo is now the one picking characters, with the fact that they publish several Dragon Quest games in the west, I think it's very likely. But yes, just take this as a big IF (don't want to derail the main discussion). My point is more that if Nintendo pushes it a lot, it can sell more on Switch than just the 400K I'm expecting if marketing is lowkey.

Harald23 said:

Greg Miller is great but at the same time annoying because of that: he's like super fan of Persona but doesn't give a fuck about Shin Megami Tensei. WTF?

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Different appeals, SMT has the same problem as DQ: it feels too classic. I did enjoy SMT IV on the 3DS as well as some ports/remasters on the system of old SMT games, but the re-use of sprites, visually dull combats and "low budget" feel of these games is really different from Persona, especially Persona 5. I want to play more SMT (I need to play Nocturne), but I vastly prefer what Persona offers.

Could marketing had been better? Of course it could.

Personally though? I struggle to imagine a different marketing approach that didn't cost 4-5x more of what they spent that would've worked effectively.

The core failure of DQ11's marketing was its failure to excite non-DQ fans into being interested in it. And let's be clear here, money doesn't automatically fix this. Persona or Nier didn't somehow have more marketing money than DQ11, but they managed to excite a larger audience by virtue of the product having aspects that were more appealing by default.

This is where I say, FFXV's marketing - where it worked its damn hardest to portray itself as an open-world game, while also having a ton of collaborations and multimedia outreaches succeeded for FFXV. And DQXI in the west was never going to get that kind of marketing muscle - it makes zero financial sense.

Carlius said:

600k is decent. 1million would be the sweert number like nier. Itll get there. My goty and personal favorite jrpg.

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DQIX on one platform and one market did more than DQXI worldwide on three platforms.

Tibarn said:

Different appeals, SMT has the same problem as DQ: it feels too classic. I did enjoy SMT IV on the 3DS as well as some ports/remasters on the system of old SMT games, but the re-use of sprites, visually dull combats and "low budget" feel of these games is really different from Persona, especially Persona 5. I want to play more SMT (I need to play Nocturne), but I vastly prefer what Persona offers.

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Same opposite for me.

I love SMT cause it reminds me more of Pokémon (obviously with a darker setting), and other classic JRPG i loved, while Persona seems different, i've never had the chance to get into it.

Sticking to the point though, they are still similar, i can't see a person loving Persona and hating SMT.

Wow, that's...garbage sales. :/

Shipping this in September was a mistake. I don't care what anyone says. I still haven't gotten around to getting it, though it's ahead of RDR2 on the list.

Tibarn said:

Different appeals, SMT has the same problem as DQ: it feels too classic. I did enjoy SMT IV on the 3DS as well as some ports/remasters on the system of old SMT games, but the re-use of sprites, visually dull combats and "low budget" feel of these games is really different from Persona, especially Persona 5. I want to play more SMT (I need to play Nocturne), but I vastly prefer what Persona offers.

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SMT experimentates so much it's hard to compare with Dragon Quest. Even the mainline series changes a lot from game to game.

I think it was just the market not being into niche stuff for most of SMT life that limited its sales. IV already did like 600K in the west on 3DS, I'm sure V will sell fine. There is an audience interested in more "edgier" RPGs like SMT games, over what Persona is (personally, I like SMT much more).

Carlius said:

600k is decent. 1million would be the sweert number like nier. Itll get there. My goty and personal favorite jrpg.

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It's less than 500k, unfortunately.

K Samedi said:

Seems like a game that would do well with the much more diverse Switch audience. If your game is a broad appeal type of game, you really want to release it on the Switch. Lets see how the S version will perform but I suspect it will blow away expectations.

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Coming in 2020 will be little too late. Who will talk about it then? Unless it comes in an empty quarter.

Bomba.

IX sold that in Japan alone. In one platform.

silva1991 said:

Coming in 2020 will be little too late. Who will talk about it then? Unless it comes in an empty quarter.

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Should be 2019. They've already said they have started a while ago and are making good progress.

I guess it's time to add dating and 10 000 years old loli waifus into the game for that western success formula. Worked for Fire Emblem.

I get that the game got an unfortunate release date but why is there the notion that it had bad marketing? I saw tons of ads on YouTube and twitch. It had a presence in their e3 conference. It had several banners on gaming outlets. It is a different marketing campaign than dq9 got but this is primarily because the game targets a slightly different crowd and marketing today is different than it was 8 years ago.

Persona had a similar gap between Japanese and worldwide release. But dq11 got more languages.... I don't think that an earlier release was realistic.

People bringing up that the game will sell as a budget title are missing the point. Valkyrie chronicless sold really well on a budget release but VC4 bombed as a full price release. But i wouldn't be surprised if the same people will champion sales numbers years latet when the game crawls to one million, as if the second 500k are worth the same money to SE.

Ni no kuni 2 sold better on the same systems. People have to stop blaming SE and just admit that the community on ps4 and steam didn't support the game.

Heartskips said:

SMT experimentates so much it's hard to compare with Dragon Quest. Even the mainline series changes a lot from game to game.

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Even within the experimentation, SMT games have some traits (unless we consider the tactic or other spin-offs) that all the games share: turn-based combat, heavy on dungeon exploring, "low-budget" feel compared to other JRPGs, dark story... meanwhile Persona goes for something completely different while keeping some gameplay elements.

I loved SMT IV, Soul Hackers and other SMT games, but it's easy to understand why the games have not the same market appeal compared to Persona.

And some of the aspects that some players don't like (turn-based combat especially) are shared with DQ.

This whole delayed release stuff is starting to become a bigger issue with Dragon Quest titles now. I have no doubt that DQXI would've been much more successful if it launched worldwide on the same date as opposed to a year long delay.

If Nintendo can buckle down and get it done with XC2, then Square needs to restructure and make it happen for the next release. But who am I kidding? DQXI on Switch will release first in Japan and the West will have to wait months and months and months.... again...

Famassu said:

I guess it's time to add dating and 10 000 years old loli waifus into the game for that western success formula. Worked for Fire Emblem.

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Awakening was a lot more than that, it had Easy mode, No perma-death mode, good 3D graphics compared to the GC/Wii titles. I don't think that is one of the best FE games, but I don't think the otaku crowd was the main source of sales for the game.

Heartskips said:

There are rumors of a Square Enix character and knowing Nintendo is now the one picking characters, with the fact that they publish several Dragon Quest games in the west, I think it's very likely. But yes, just take this as a big IF (don't want to derail the main discussion). My point is more that if Nintendo pushes it a lot, it can sell more on Switch than just the 400K I'm expecting if marketing is lowkey.

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Why would Nintendo such a game, now it has lost the exclusivity? I don't think Nintendo will do anything for this game beside it being mentioned in a direct.

Glad to hear it's doing well.

Tibarn said:

Even within the experimentation, SMT games have some traits (unless we consider the tactic or other spin-offs) that all the games share: turn-based combat, heavy on dungeon exploring, "low-budget" feel compared to other JRPGs, dark story... meanwhile Persona goes for something completely different while keeping some gameplay elements.

I loved SMT IV, Soul Hackers and other SMT games, but it's easy to understand why the games have not the same market appeal compared to Persona.

And some of the aspects that some players don't like (turn-based combat especially) are shared with DQ.

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SMT V is not low budget, it's Atlus biggest project currently.

The low budget feel was more a retro thing justified by DS-3DS weak hardware.