women of era, how do you feel about being "cold approached"?

Volimar · Nov 6, 2018

norog said:
This absolutely isn't directed at you per se but something about those last couple lines makes me so, so angry. For decades (well, and I mean longer, frankly), we women have had to deal with so much crap, including this cold-approach shit, and now suddenly some guys are finally clue-ing in that hey, maybe most of them don't like it? Wow, who knew! Women are such mysterious creatures! Is this new?!

Sigh. No. No it isn't. It was exactly the same 20 years ago, at least from women's perspective, I can confirm that.

I absolutely understand what you're saying. I can only bring my own experiences to the discussion. I said 20 years ago, because I was an adult in the dating scene back then. I had women approach me in the supermarket or while walking to class and they were perfectly acceptable things for people to do back then. I'm not saying they were right or that the interactions were always reasonable, just that that's what happened then and no one blinked an eye about it. And believe me when I say I understand it's different for a woman being approached out of the blue by a man. There's a culture there that women have had reason to be apprehensive of since....forever. I'm sorry if I made you angry, please believe me that I'm not trying to undermine what women have or have had to deal with since time immemorial.

Famassu · Nov 6, 2018

CoyoteSpitfire said:
Sounds like a dream come true.

Maybe if you are a man who doesn't have this issue of it being a daily/weekly thing nor having to fear retaliation, but you should trust women in how annoying, frustrating and/or even threatening it can be when they have to suffer through endless desperate attempts as a common occurence that, when rejected, can lead to threatening situations and abuse (verbal and/or physical).

BlackJace · Nov 6, 2018

Gugi40 said:
I think location and context matters the most. If it is in a bar or well populated public place where people are supposed to be social then it is completely fine as long as it is done respectfully, but if it is done in a place where people typically are running errands or its dark out, just stop.

Let me tell you an example of a 'just stop' situation; When I was doing school last year I had to go downtown and I parked at a siblings place that was 20 minute walk away from my school. My classes ended at 9pm each night and I would walk back to my car trying to take the most populated routes because cities have lots of weirdos. One freezing night I ended class a bit later than 9pm and had to walk pretty quickly back to my car because my city gets really dark and empty really fast in winter. So I was walking as fast as I possibly could with my headphones in and I stopped at a crosswalk next to some random dude, when the light changed I walked and thought nothing of it, he starts walking next to me so I walk way faster, he matches my speed next to me and I look over and he signals to me to take my headphones off which is a huge pet peeve of mine. I stop and take a headphone out thinking maybe this guy needs help or is lost or something, so I ask "Do you need help?" to which he replies "No I just wanted to see if you would talk with me for a bit" In my head I am SCREAMING but I politely tell him "Hey sorry I am actually in a big rush to get to my car" and he says "Do you mind if I walk with you a bit of the way?" that kind of weirded me out but I said "sure" because I am a saint and off we go. He starts telling me I seem very unique and I interested him and he started making very oddly close assumptions to what i did for school, what pets I owned, the hobbies I kept, etc and we are just kind of having a ...."normal" conversation and he is polite enough so we get to the two block mark and I stop and say, "Hey the train is back half a block you may want to turn around now" and he then pulls out the "would you go for coffee with me sometime?" and I am not interested so I say "Hey sorry I am a bit too busy to go date right now, especially with Midterms" and he persists saying "Oh well I am busy too but we can make time" and I say "Sorry I really can't, I barely have time for myself let alone anyone else it would not be realistic" and he persists again "We should try though, why not?" and I am annoyed now but I stay polite because I know what happens when you get combatant so I continue saying I have no time and I want to focus on school yatta yatta... He politely says thanks for the conversation and hopes to see me again and goes on his way. Now, after this I was really scared, I thought maybe he has guys somewhere watching me or he will follow me home, so I run the rest of the way and constantly turn my head to see if anyone is following me. I took a new route to my car after that.

The reason this story is important is because it shows a perfect example of location and context. Late at night, in winter, not very populated area of the city, and interrupting me when it is so painfully obvious I am not to be spoken to (ie. headphones in, walking very fast, backpack on). Even though he was fairly polite considering what he could have been like, the fear of being attacked or followed due to rejection was so strong for me and there are tons of women who feel the same and that is why cold approach is ...almost mean.

My advice to men who want to approach women in this way is: If this woman frequents the location (grocery store, coffee shop, gym, whatever) then try to establish a small relationship before asking her out, like try to strike innocent conversation that has nothing to do with her looks, and just continue doing this until you both are comfortable (or she at least knows your name and doesn't look pissed when you approach her). The number 1 issue with cold approach is that guys are freaking RELENTLESS, they do not know when to go away and leave a person alone, they also break the societal rule of HEADPHONES IN MEANS DO NOT DISTURB.

Anyway that is my 2 cents on the issue.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Just to be clear, my earlier comment about this thread "being in bad faith" was due to this sentiment largely being echoed by the frequenters of DatingERA and hydro kind of seemed liked they were misrepresenting them as sanctioning going up to women on the street (which is an obvious hell no).

Deleted member 888 · Nov 6, 2018

OhSatan said:
But you literally have woman telling the men "please ignore us like the plague, you are creppy or make us feel insecure or threatened"

The women are saying don't do it, so you don't do it because of that.

Johnny Nintendo Fan stammering towards you wearing a Zelda t-shirt with grease stains, drool and a twinkle in his eye probably would make most people, let alone women, feel disturbed.

Most people going about in the public realm, meaning random streets and so on will all have a goal. To go to work, to get home from work, to catch public transport, to do some shopping or to meet a friend. Whatever it is, nearly everyone in public is out to do something. Some people might be going out for a leisurely walk/walking their dog, but 90% of people just want to be left alone and their space respected.

That's not saying you have to be a mute in public, but most conversations that happen outside of bars, clubs, community events, meetups of some sorts happen naturally and often it's just niceties like saying hello, or briefly talking to someone in a queue.

If you guys are wanting dating, use apps, or use the old fashioned way of going out to communal places that promote socialising as their main goal, like bars, clubs, community events, etc. Heck, even the gym. Though a lot of people want to be left alone in the gym too, so maybe gym classes are better for group socialising.

KelticNight · Nov 6, 2018

Small talk is one thing, but actively trying to strike up a conversation with some random who just wants get home after a days work or is busying doing her shopping is just some next level shit.

You can just tell when someone doesn't want attention from some thirsty bloke, it's not fucking rocket science....

excelsiorlef · Nov 6, 2018

astro said:
What are YOU trying to do here?

You didn't make an distinction regarding setting and simply stated "don't approach me if you're just going to ask for digits". The girl I approached was also not at the bar to be social, but doing her job, so I was also asking in relation to that.

9 times out of 10 you probably shouldn't ask the bartender out.

i-hate-u · Nov 6, 2018

Sincerest said:
And this is only the first page.

???

Never approach/talk strangers in public unless an urgent/emergency reason.

Redcrayon · Nov 6, 2018

Potater said:
Goddamn at the thirsty dudes thinking the reverse would be awesome.

Cold approaches I do not enjoy. I have no issue making small talk in public. It can come naturally. And maybe that person might ask if we can keep talking later. No big deal. But "hey, can I get your number?" while I'm trying to buy some fucking bread is weird and annoying. If you start cracking jokes with me while we are standing in line or something that's fine. Not every guy that makes small talk with me in public is interested in more either, some people are just friendly and that's nice.

I agree with this.

Why does it have to be a binary thing devoid of context, nuance or the most basic clues of what might be appropriate or welcome? There's a difference between 'never talk to women' and 'don't ask for their number while they are in a hurry with headphones on, in an enclosed space where one or both of you can't leave (lifts, packed trains) and/or their body language is screaming 'Leave me the fuck alone'.

Mahonay · Nov 6, 2018

HellforLeather said:
thats only if you find them unattractive.

It's still awkward even if I find them attractive. But sure, less so I guess.

Sincerest · Nov 6, 2018

Morrigan said:
This is a strawman and a misrepresentation of the topic. Please read Potater's post above.

Potater makes a fascinating point. Friendly conversations are great, and interest have the potential to bloom from there.

But look at the last post on the first page.

"Just don't approach women period." Is that really the solution?

just a slowpoke · Nov 6, 2018

Siggy-P said:
OP seems to feel that way. Here's his post from the thread about the angry boyfriend last night.

Follow the quote. He spends the entire thread refusing the back down from the idea that the OP wasn't a creep looking to bang the woman.

I ain't making a "huh, he must be a white knight" ad hominem, the guy is genuinely projecting and made an entire thread to indirectly attack another poster over it.

i didn't quote anyone because that statement wasn't directed at anyone individually, it's a statement directed broadly at everyone who exhibits that line of thinking

astro · Nov 6, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
9 times out of 10 you probably shouldn't ask the bartender out.

I don't agree with this at all. And the reason being is I've helped run a bar and worked in tonnes and most bartenders, male and female, don't mind this kind of interaction. Purely anecdotal of course, but I do have experience here.

Where are you pulling 9 out of 10 from?

Deleted member 2809 · Nov 6, 2018

Sincerest said:
And this is only the first page.

Thanks for the quote, subbed. Please sub back and upvote !

Siggy-P · Nov 6, 2018

Sianos said:
i didn't quote anyone because that statement wasn't directed at anyone individually, it's a statement directed broadly at everyone who exhibits that line of thinking

I apologise, I thought it was aimed at me.

Maolfunction · Nov 6, 2018

Lot of "nice guys" in here who seem completely unaware that their behavior is unwanted and have difficulty being told, "No."

If you're not in a setting specifically designed to meet people, then don't approach women looking to walk away with a date or a number. It's that simple.

Ignoring literally everything about gender power dynamics in 2018 because you're a nice guy and know when to stop (lol, no you don't) is extremely selfish and shows you have a mindset that your gain matters more than what women have been saying to men for decades about their unwanted behavior.

Amiibola · Nov 6, 2018

I'm not a woman but, uh... isn't that uncomfortable as hell?

If i were minding my own bussiness and then a woman i don't know came outta nowhere asking me about how my day was and stuff i would not feel exactly comfortable (Not even safe, in fact)

Don't do this, date Era

SOLDIER · Nov 6, 2018

Trojita said:
Just ask yourself if you would have talked to a guy playing Fire Emblem. Girls are people too. They don't have to be someone you have to be in a relationship with, she could have become a friend with a shared interest. It's okay to think about how you are approaching a situation, determine how your actions affect others, but sometimes people overthink things too much and it holds them back from talking with people.

To be perfectly honest, no. I'm not the most sociable guy to begin with. Doesn't mean I wouldn't talk with guys period: I recently went to a Distant Worlds concert and found myself more talkative then most of the other people in my front row, for instance.

But I already have plenty of girl friends, so when I see someone like in the example I posted, I would talk to them with the hopes of dating them.

Although I am aware that it's a bad habit that I don't go with the mindset of making friends with them first, as you stated.

Mahonay · Nov 6, 2018

astro said:
What are YOU trying to do here?

You didn't make an distinction regarding setting and simply stated "don't approach me if you're just going to ask for digits". The girl I approached was also not at the bar to be social, but doing her job, so I was also asking in relation to that.

Asking the bartender out huh.

How often do you think that happens to someone who works at a bar? Do you think they enjoy it?

alexiswrite · Nov 6, 2018

Sincerest said:
And this is only the first page.

Okay, let's try again. Do you believe that these people are complaining about little jokes/ambient conversation that generally happens in public from time to time? Or that they're complaining about "cold approaches" aka generally, dudes trying to get their number when they're walking home from their local grocery store? Do you recognize these things as different?

Maurice Hamblin · Nov 6, 2018

This is entirely dependent on your social skills, setting, and (unfortunately) your face. I've cold-approached women and it has always led to (at the very least) a conversation, sometimes a date, sometimes sex. This is an impossible question to ask/answer.

There are ways to do this without seeming like a complete weirdo but it's not particularly easy since the default reaction will likely be hesitation. My only real "rule" involving this would be to not actively interrupt an activity.

nel e nel · Nov 6, 2018

hydrophilic attack said:
more than that, and also at least one gender-nonconforming person

subpar spatula said:
You can see someone's stated gender by clicking their name.

Definitely more than 2, but the majority of respondents are male. Not everyone has their gender in their profile either.

Regardless, I always find these types of discussions amusing because men tend to dominate the discussion instead of leaning back and listening.

julia crawford · Nov 6, 2018

Men going at ways to get women like managers trying to make themselves useful thinking up new and radical development methodologies that no one had thought of before.

excelsiorlef · Nov 6, 2018

astro said:
I don't agree with this at all. And the reason being is I've helped run a bar and worked in tonnes and most bartenders, male and female, don't mind this kind of interaction. Purely anecdotal of course, but I do have experience here.

Where are you pulling 9 out of 10 from?

Bartenders are there to work, being friendly is their job, it puts them in awkward positions and any given dude is probably the 40th proposition she's had this week.

astro · Nov 6, 2018

Mahonay said:
Asking the bartender out huh.

How often do you think that happens to someone who works at a bar? Do you think they enjoy it?

As above, I've run and worked in many bars over the years. And most people, in my experience, don't mind this interaction as long as it's polite.

excelsiorlef said:
Bartenders are there to work, being friendly is their job, it puts them in awkward positions and any given dude is probably the 40th proposition she's had this week.

Of course, which is something to be respectful and aware of. But where did you get 9 out of 10 from?

NoName999 · Nov 6, 2018

Sincerest said:
Potater makes a fascinating point. Friendly conversations are great, and interest have the potential to bloom from there.

But look at the last post on the first page.

"Just don't approach women period." Is that really the solution?

I don't think that person was being completely literal.

thewienke · Nov 6, 2018

Sometimes I wonder if there needs to be a social interactions class in schools. When so many people are so awful at it and suffer in their careers, love lives, etc., maybe throwing kids together to just figure it out isn't the best option.

They could clear up some of this cold approach stuff and teaching guys to read the room better.

Volimar · Nov 6, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
Bartenders are there to work, being friendly is their job, it puts them in awkward positions and any given dude is probably the 40th proposition she's had this week.

But she called me honey! Surely she wants to date me!

Sincerest · Nov 6, 2018

alexiswrite said:
Okay, let's try again. Do you believe that these people are complaining about little jokes/ambient conversation that generally happens in public from time to time? Or that they're complaining about "cold approaches" aka generally, dudes trying to get their number when they're walking home from their local grocery store? Do you recognize these things as different?

Whoa.

Okay, so that's what a "cold approach" is? Never mind. I thought a cold approach was just conversation without sexual/attraction interest or intent. Guess I should have read better. Never mind, I retract all I said. But won't edit out my posts either. Hope all other future replies read this.

Edit: is that is a cold approach, asking for her number, what is a hot approach?

Mahonay · Nov 6, 2018

astro said:
As above, I've run and worked in many bars over the years. And most people, in my experience, don't mind this interaction as long as it's polite.

From my experience politeness is not something that you can always expect from drunk patrons. That's more what I'm speaking to.

Gugi40 · Nov 6, 2018

BlackJace said:
I agree wholeheartedly agree with this.

Just to be clear, my earlier comment about this thread "being in bad faith" was due to this sentiment largely being echoed by the frequenters of DatingERA and hydro kind of seemed liked they were misrepresenting them as sanctioning going up to women on the street (which is an obvious hell no).

It is definitely a good discussion to have, especially when we can get the raw opinions of women on the issue that directly affects them lol.

Persephone · Nov 6, 2018

straight men aren't allowed to even breathe in my direction in public and in fact must maintain a constant 50 foot radius at all times

(seriously men, don't do this, we're already terrified enough as it is)

just a slowpoke · Nov 6, 2018

John Kowalski said:
Men going at ways to get women like managers trying to make themselves useful thinking up new and radical development methodologies that no one had thought of before.

this is such a fitting analogy

Deleted member 7130 · Nov 6, 2018

Just being "approached" persistently by the same individual(s) who you don't have interest in can be really annoying. I say this as a male. I then imagine it being an even more aggressive, belligerent, numerous, and potentially dangerous experience for women. Kinda wonder how they deal with that.

HyperFerret · Nov 6, 2018

Can't think of a scenario where I would like it.

Gakidou · Nov 6, 2018

I think the cold approach is maybe fine in theory, but there's all sorts of problems.

1) I think a lot of other women in the thread have already identified the big issue pretty well but i'll add to the pile: most women will have their guard up massively because of so much experience, either firsthand or from pop culture, that there's a notable chance men won't take rejection well and respond anywhere on the bad times spectrum from getting awkward/sulky and making you feel really guilty to literally trying to set you on fire or pour acid on your face so like yeah imagine the confusing mix of being really flattered but also reminding yourself that people are going to see it as your own responsibly not to get physically assaulted because its just that commonplace, neat.

2) I prefer to be friends first and I only develop romantic interest very slowly in people as I get to know them better so I kind of find it flattering but like, it doesn't work good. Plus I have a partner now which btw, nobody ever seems to ask before they go straight to requesting contact details? Twice now i've been cold approached and i've had to mention it and dudes were liek HE DOESN'T NEED TO KNOW ;-| And i'm like, whoa there guy.

3) One time I was getting a bus home alone and very young and in like a sleep deprived completely auto-pilot state and some dude asked me my number in like a really blunt way and I just gave it to him because my default behaviour is amicable and he IMMEDIATELY started creepytexting me and I was like oh oops, and I messaged him like hey actually I am quite busy and content with my friendships and life maybe you should go make some friends over where you live... bye... Anyway I told someone about it later and they were like WTF WHY WOULD YOU GIVE A STRANGER YOUR NUMBER, ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID? And I still feel embarrassed about it please don't make fun of me. :(

excelsiorlef · Nov 6, 2018

astro said:
Of course, which is something to be respectful and aware of. But where did you get 9 out of 10 from?

Dude

It's just a way of saying it's generally not a good idea.

Soapbox Killer · Nov 6, 2018

subpar spatula said:
Reverse it for a moment, would you want to be approached many times a day by thirsty individuals?

Ferrs said:
Dudes saying they would love too have never been in the situation women keep being.

Being very honest here.

There was a time between 18 and 30 where women were throwing themselves at me all the time and I gotta say it was pretty great. No bullshit. It's not the same for everybody and I was pretty humble at handling those moments but for me to sit and say that at anytime it made me uncomfortable would be a huge lie. (some ladies don't handle "no thank you" as well as I thought).

On the train or at the job or back stage at the different shows. Nice to have random ego strokes but whatever.

Stone Cold · Nov 6, 2018

As a guy, the only time I've "cold approached" someone is in a situation where we've both clearly made prolonged eye contact and shown nonverbal attraction to each other. I would feel weird just approaching someone out of the blue

aerie · Nov 6, 2018

astro said:
I don't agree with this at all. And the reason being is I've helped run a bar and worked in tonnes and most bartenders, male and female, don't mind this kind of interaction. Purely anecdotal of course, but I do have experience here.

Where are you pulling 9 out of 10 from?

In my experience with bartending/working in bars you definitely should never ask a bartender out, or really anyone while they are at work, it's an awkward way to corner someone and really put them on the spot, especially if they have to still serve you or interact with you as a customer after. The women I worked with would complain rather frequently, not about specifically being asked out, as it was so rare (and with reason), but just about constant uncomfortable interactions with people flirting/hitting on them.

astro · Nov 6, 2018

Mahonay said:
From my experience politeness is not something that you can always expect from drunk patrons. That's more what I'm speaking to.

Which is why this conversation isn't as simple as "never do it", and your original post was framed as "never cold approach and ask for digits".

While I agree a little common sense and ability to understand all the factors will render the vast majority of these situations a no-go, I don't think the idea of a cold approach to ask for a date is always a bad thing.

Context matters, and there are some obvious things to consider like most people, regardless of the other person's intent, simply don't want to be disturbed while they go about their daily lives.

The Woods said:
In my experience with bartending you definitely should never ask a bartender out, or really anyone while they are at work, it's an awkward way to corner someone and really put them on the spot, especially if they have to still serve you or interact with you as a customer after. The women I worked with would complain rather frequently, not about specifically being asked out, as it was so rare, and rightfully so, but just about uncomfortable interactions with people flirting/hitting on them.

I asked as I was leaving for that very reason. I don't agree it's a no-go obviously, and my experience tells me plenty of people agree with this (both women and men), and that context and approach matters.

Mahonay · Nov 6, 2018

John Kowalski said:
Men going at ways to get women like managers trying to make themselves useful thinking up new and radical development methodologies that no one had thought of before.

Servbot24 · Nov 6, 2018

i-hate-u said:
???

Never approach/talk strangers in public unless an urgent/emergency reason.

I'm anti-social and that seems really extreme

Deleted member 4034 · Nov 6, 2018

astro said:
As above, I've run and worked in many bars over the years. And most people, in my experience, don't mind this interaction as long as it's polite.

Of course, which is something to be respectful and aware of. But where did you get 9 out of 10 from?

Don't be so literal. Point is, most times are bartenders don't want to be asked out by the people.

Xita · Nov 6, 2018

I hate it.

D65 · Nov 6, 2018

This is a big insight into US culture, the thread...

Mahonay · Nov 6, 2018

D65 said:
This is a big insight into US culture, the thread...

Welcome to the shit show.

oni_saru · Nov 6, 2018

I find it really annoying. Like I just wanna get my shit done without being interrupted.

And since I'm already in that mode of thinking, when a guy approaches me, all I can think is "how can I reject this guy in a smooth, nice way so I can go back to doing my shit uninterrupted"

I really don't appreciate nor want guys "cold approaching" me.

BlackJace · Nov 6, 2018

Gugi40 said:
It is definitely a good discussion to have, especially when we can get the raw opinions of women on the issue that directly affects them lol.

No lies detected, you're right that the discussion needs to happen regardless.

Deleted member 1287 · Nov 6, 2018

D65 said:
This is a big insight into US culture, the thread...

Stop making everything about the US. This isn't about the US!

D65 · Nov 6, 2018

i-hate-u said:
Just don't approach women out in public places, period.

Cold or not.

This is a bit... I mean. I like it. My friends (most) have boyfriends this way.

But at the very least it shouldn't be like, in the library or something just go up and talk!

My friend who is lesbian wishes she could but straights girls massively outnumber gay girls so...

women of era, how do you feel about being "cold approached"?

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