I agree, but it doesn't illustrate an accurate description of this controversy.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate had an offensive stereotype regarding Native Americans (Update: Removed)
- Thread starter Regulus Tera
- Start date
I agree, but it doesn't illustrate an accurate description of this controversy.
Well, Vikings weren't treated as bad as Native Americans, that might explain your feelings. For a long time Vikings were thought as cool since they were tough going out fighting. However they were raping and killing, not so cool after all. As a scandinavian I'm not proud anymore.
Yikes, I was not aware of this nor the game & watch game where it was originally based from.
With the game launching next month Nintendo will have to quickly scrub out the racist imagery.
With the game launching next month Nintendo will have to quickly scrub out the racist imagery.
User Banned (permanent): Dismissing concerns about racism; Junior phase account
And it's not. People is so sensible... They look like they always want be offended by something.
Mario and Luigi are italian stereotypes. No one cares.
Mother trilogy is full of american stereotypes. No one cares.
A native american appears with a torch -> "Oh my God, Yisuscrist! It's racist and offends me!"
PD: Waiting for Resetera's moderation. They only accept messages that they want to read.
Last edited:
I hope they just remove the feather, I like that he changes appearance every move he makes and it would be weird if it looks like normal Game & Watch just for this move. I think simply removing the feather is enough, he would look just like an angry generic man in that case, so that's fine.
I pretty much agree with you, this is apparently still America in 2018 all because some billionaire decided he still likes the team name and "mascot"
They actually added this model in between the E3 demo and the final build. I think in either Pikachu's or Pichu's character trailers, you can see G&W with his original f-Smash animation.
Last edited:
You should fight for better headlines.
How about "fan outcry after racist characterization creeps into Smash Bros"
What I said is completely factual, and no wishy-washiness about the facts of the matter.
I know this is a bad faith argument, but I've never understood the mentality behind this. Why would anyone want to be perpetually offended?
Honest sincere, open question to the mods/ staff:
Generally speaking, if someone has a dissenting opinion of some kind, how do you recommend that person expressing it, without unintentionally coming off as "arguing in bad faith" or just being totally dismissive?
Generally speaking, if someone has a dissenting opinion of some kind, how do you recommend that person expressing it, without unintentionally coming off as "arguing in bad faith" or just being totally dismissive?
The original g&w game it references doesn't look racist, it looks immoral as it makes you play out an immoral part of history playing as the bad guys.
I don't see any racist stereotype about native americans (from that time) having feathers on their heads, I thought that was historically accurate. Unless I'm missing something about a native american holding a torch being racist.
I don't see any racist stereotype about native americans (from that time) having feathers on their heads, I thought that was historically accurate. Unless I'm missing something about a native american holding a torch being racist.
Not being native American, it doesn't really matter if I "see" it or not. It's one of those times where you shush, listen, and decide whether it's a detail worth upsetting people over. My answer is a simple "no", and I hope Nintendo will agree. It seems easy to fix, so I hope they get it sorted before launch.
I'm not talking about being upset about it, I'm talking about it being called an stereotype.
If I was a native American I'd find that original game offensive for sure, but I don't see where the "stereotype" is. It'd be if they were suposed to be modern native american, but it doesn't look like it.
"Fans request change to racially-charged imagery found in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate."
No offense, but it's an easy headline to write, and I find your argument for your current headline to be disingenuous.
Last edited:
Ever heard of the savage Indian stereotype? The G&W game depicts them as violent torch-wielding invaders of the cowboy's settlement.
American media has for the longest time depicted native americans as dehumanized violent savages in order to whitewash or justify how white America wholesale slaughtered and disenfranchised them for centuries.
When a bunch of Japanese game developers' only exposure to native Americans is through American westerns that depict them as savages, then it's no surprise they do so as well in their little western themed LCD games.
Personally I like the new quirky animations for G&W and think the feather is a cute reference to a historical game rather than being racist commentary, and see no harm in it.
That said if it's going to hurt people seeing it then maybe it would be better to remove it altogether.
That said if it's going to hurt people seeing it then maybe it would be better to remove it altogether.
Just a reminder that Nintendo of America's Treehouse department is in constant dialogue with their Japanese teams during the duration of development, even outside of the localization process. They participate in production meetings, see the game in early and prototype stages of development, make content suggestions for their global markets, and work to educate the Japanese developers on cultural taboos.
They do not make technical and code changes themselves.
The inclusion of this in the Japanese version, with no confirmed inclusion for the international version, implies heavily that NoA saw this (they absolutely did) during development, brought it up to Sora Ltd., Bandai Namco, and NCL, and explained and educated on why this would be offensive to marginalized people - selling a commercial product utilizing depictions with a history of racial abuse tied to a genocide and immense mistreatment that continues today. If this is in fact changed for the international version, that means they understood and agreed to make the change for the Western release, either because they understood Treehouse about it being an issue and agreed, or at the very least trusted their judgment on the issue. Them including it in the Japanese release, if in fact it is removed from the international versions of the game, isn't just them believing it would be no issue for images of the Japanese version to surface (and for the game to release in Japan with it at all, which honestly speaking the Japanese market by and large probably wouldn't care too much about in itself,) but also involves them going through the work of creating a separate regional build of the game to sell exclusively to Japanese customers, which requires different eShop setups, and will require maintaining two separate versions for forthcoming patches and DLC.
My fear is that they DIDN'T remove this from the international version, and that captured footage represents older builds, while the recent tournament build represents the 1.0 build of the game internationally. Time will tell of course, but it sure would suck if Treehouse had pointed out the problem and they shipped it anyway.
TL;DR Japanese dev teams aren't clueless
They do not make technical and code changes themselves.
The inclusion of this in the Japanese version, with no confirmed inclusion for the international version, implies heavily that NoA saw this (they absolutely did) during development, brought it up to Sora Ltd., Bandai Namco, and NCL, and explained and educated on why this would be offensive to marginalized people - selling a commercial product utilizing depictions with a history of racial abuse tied to a genocide and immense mistreatment that continues today. If this is in fact changed for the international version, that means they understood and agreed to make the change for the Western release, either because they understood Treehouse about it being an issue and agreed, or at the very least trusted their judgment on the issue. Them including it in the Japanese release, if in fact it is removed from the international versions of the game, isn't just them believing it would be no issue for images of the Japanese version to surface (and for the game to release in Japan with it at all, which honestly speaking the Japanese market by and large probably wouldn't care too much about in itself,) but also involves them going through the work of creating a separate regional build of the game to sell exclusively to Japanese customers, which requires different eShop setups, and will require maintaining two separate versions for forthcoming patches and DLC.
My fear is that they DIDN'T remove this from the international version, and that captured footage represents older builds, while the recent tournament build represents the 1.0 build of the game internationally. Time will tell of course, but it sure would suck if Treehouse had pointed out the problem and they shipped it anyway.
TL;DR Japanese dev teams aren't clueless
Quick note, but those who scream why yall always so offended always look like the most easily offended.
You are literally pissed because some give a fuck.
You are literally pissed because some give a fuck.
A non-inflammatory, non-click-bait-y title could be "Smash Bros. Ultimate Features Possible Racist Caricature Due to Fire Attack Reference" or if you really want to "blame" the internet and not directly call it racist to not trigger racists "Internet Discovers Smash Bros. Features Insensitive Native American Caricature Due to Fire Attack Reference".
A billion and one ways to write this without "blaming" the internet masses or implying it's an "accusation of racism".
Just to clearify, that point was only in relation to Mario wearing a sombrero and a poncho in Mario Odyssey, it was not about the native american image being in Smash Bros. Herp Albert then mentioned another stereotypical image of a french artist being poor and saying tha he wasnt offended by that, so i replied and mentioned another example about scandinavians being portraited as vikings and saying that i'm not being offended by that. You're right that the vikings werent treated as bad as native americans, but its possible to be offended by that image due to what some of the vikings did (plunder, rape and murder as you mention. I'm not sure if that was too different from what other groups/countries who went to war did back in those days, but still). When i see e.g Torbjorn in Overwatch, i dont think of that the developers are trying to portrait scandinavians as murderes and rapers etc., so thats why i'm personally not offended by that. But again, just to underline, that point in the discussion was only about Mario in Mario Odyssey wearing a sombrero and a poncho, not about the Game & Watch reference in Smash Bros. I brought up Mario Odyssey because i was curious how Nintendo would potentially handle this situation in Smash Bros.
https://smashboards.com/threads/mr-racist-watch.463262/#post-22679711
http://gamrconnect./thread.php?id=238208&page=1
"Honestly people just get offended too easily. G&W is in a headdress not doing anything that is offensive. This has always been his F-smash. Now it is more accurate to the game it came from. I'm sorry if you get offended but I don't believe they should change it. It is a good look back to where he came from. Almost everything can be skewed to be offensive."
"This is not racism at all though..."
I hate Gamers.
http://gamrconnect./thread.php?id=238208&page=1
"Honestly people just get offended too easily. G&W is in a headdress not doing anything that is offensive. This has always been his F-smash. Now it is more accurate to the game it came from. I'm sorry if you get offended but I don't believe they should change it. It is a good look back to where he came from. Almost everything can be skewed to be offensive."
"This is not racism at all though..."
I hate Gamers.
OP
OP
Good apology, I'm glad they didn't go the "sorry you were offended" route.
It's the "savage" stereotype.
In this case, it appears Nintendo was aware of it before and got rid of it, but someone on the Smash team went to the old games for references and wasn't aware of what it invoked and that the company had edited it out in future games. And now they've acknowledged it again and are removing it again, so good on them.
It should be noted that Microsoft did something similar with Thunder in Killer Instinct - they made him realistic, and even has an actual accurate alternate costume that was designed under consultation from the actual Nez Percé tribe.
Too bad people in the comments are more upset about removing the animation then the Smash team were.
Yo, if the squid kid in Mario Kart 8 can lose a fist pump taunt, this is 1000% more offensive. Caricature of Native Americans as "savages"
Uh, what that has to do with my question? I'm not against it being retired, I asked the context.
OP
OP
It's a reference to a game where you play as a soldier fighting under a flag resembling the Confederate flag against savage Indians trying to burn down your fort.
I think it looks good and it fits in with the other animations depicting different games and designs like the sailor, the diver, octopus and the others. But like I said, I do understand it's removal considering its source material. It's not that it'll have a actual impact on the gameplay or anything outside of this. So I'm unsure what some on twitter are getting all fussed up about.
They're only removing the feather, and leaving it in other versions sounds like more work
It's becausel "We can't let the NPCSJW's win!"
I doubt anyone cares that much about one animation being changed.
