Kotaku: The 'Free' Gear in Black Ops 4 Is An Unforgiving Grind

Sounds like they are artificially lengthening the game with insane grind. Not as big of a deal as the Star Wars backlash, since this is not locking actual characters behind a grind/pay-wall. But still sounds like a drag

Yeah I'm still grinding and hoping they'll fix it somehow in 30-40 days.

Nax said:

Sounds like they are artificially lengthening the game with insane grind. Not as big of a deal as the Star Wars backlash, since this is not locking actual characters behind a grind/pay-wall. But still sounds like a drag

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It does unlock characters behind a grind/pay wall. You have to reach rank 199 to unlock him.

It's the next step as making AAA GaaS into grindy korean MMORPG, publisher want you to spend the most time possible on their games after all.

People pushed for the loot boxes to get removed, congrats they are mostly gone. Now people are mad they have to actually play the game 4 hours a day for the 50 days they have to get everything. They even have direct buy skins now through those orders they put up. This is what people were fighting for now they are mad it's there. This is all extra cosmetic post game shit too really exposes how people are worried more about cosmetics than actually having fun with the game.

They already discussed putting in gameplay related missions to give you more xp for this but I'm sure people would still complain if it was reduced to 2 hours instead of 4

MrConbon210 said:

It does unlock characters behind a grind/pay wall. You have to reach rank 199 to unlock him.

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It's a character skin, has zero effect on gameplay.

I guess no one remembers how much of a grind the Fortnite battle pass was before they added challenges, also maybe you just won't get everything before the time runs out and that's not a big deal?

Yeah, the grind is huge. I've been SUPER lucky with my "lootboxes" though and have gotten like 80% skins. Still, the weapons are the coolest part and some of these are very hard to get. It would be less painful if it was based on EXP or score, instead of just plain old "time played". We will see if the challenges they add are gonna help, but honestly: Probably not. They know whales will spend money on cod points and buy tiers, so, why change it if they can profit from it?

Nax said:

Sounds like they are artificially lengthening the game with insane grind. Not as big of a deal as the Star Wars backlash, since this is not locking actual characters behind a grind/pay-wall. But still sounds like a drag

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Also of course mainly to push those tired of gaining tiers slow to get them to buy the microtransactions the main end goal of this

JustSurvive said:

It's a character skin, has zero effect on gameplay.

I guess no one remembers how much of a grind the Fortnite battle pass was before they added challenges, also maybe you just won't get everything before the time runs out and that's not a big deal?

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Yeah but still a charecter nonetheless unlike the skins for the operators.

MrConbon210 said:

It does unlock characters behind a grind/pay wall. You have to reach rank 199 to unlock him.

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Oh...Well that's no good.

Well, what do they want instead? if anyone could get everything in a week it would be meaningless. It HAS to be grindy, and there will people achieving those tiers eventually so?

Yup. It's pretty awful and makes wish they would have just done the WWII system even though I didn't want it to do that.

Like the fact that there is 0 challenges to do to level up through the Contraband stuff is just mind boggling. How or why they thought the system was good to release in this state is beyond me.

It's like they heard about the Fortnite system but didn't understand quite how it worked and released it.

MrConbon210 said:

Yeah but still a charecter nonetheless unlike the skins for the operators.

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No, the Battlefront comparison is because they locked real characters with different abilities and playstyles. It doesn't matter if you play as random soldier or Woods in Blackout.

Dark Ninja said:

People pushed for the loot boxes to get removed, congrats they are mostly gone. Now people are mad they have to actually play the game 4 hours a day for the 50 days they have to get everything. There even have direct buy skins now through those orders they put up. This is what people were fighting for now they are mad it's there. This is all extra cosmetic post game shit too really exposes how people are worried more about cosmetics than actually having fun with the game.

They already discussed putting in gameplay related missions to give you more xp for this but I'm sure people would still complain if it was reduced to 2 hours instead of 4

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I couldn't agree more. People will never be happy.

MrConbon210 said:

It does unlock characters behind a grind/pay wall. You have to reach rank 199 to unlock him.

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MrConbon210 said:

Yeah but still a charecter nonetheless unlike the skins for the operators.

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That's a skin for blackout there is no gameplay attached to that. A character in this game would be something for MP since those have actual gameplay attached to them which none are in the stream.

MTX totally don't impact game design for the worse guys. For realz. They just decided the grind to level up and get the loot naturally should be outrageously long because they wanted you to really feel that sense of achievement. Obviously.

Also the fact that playing Zombies doesn't contribute to leveling is just dumb as well.

Infinite Warfare was honestly in the best in this regards. Yeah it had loot boxes but whether I played regular MP or Zombies it felt like I was progressing. Here if I play zombies it feels like I'm purposefully hampering my progress.

Theorry said:

Difference is i think there are examples out there that are more fair and also make enough money. Even one that is F2P where this game is 60 bucks and also even has a season pass.

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I don't really care either way since they are cosmetics, but yeah Epic really seems to have crafted the perfect balance for this of business model with Fortnite.

I gotta get the unicorn gun.

RexNovis said:

MTX totally don't impact game design for the worse guys. For realz. They just decided the grind to level up and get the loot naturally should be outrageously long because they wanted you to really feel that sense of achievement. Obviously.

Spoiler

/s MTX are a plague on game design. People never learn.

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I feel like your misunderstanding.

This system IS BAD. But it doesn't impact the rest of the game. The MTX system isn't interwoven with the standard leveling, prestiging, gun unlocking, and so on. After all the game was out for weeks before this part released and worked just fine.

RexNovis said:

MTX totally don't impact game design for the worse guys. For realz. They just decided the grind to level up and get the loot naturally should be outrageously long because they wanted you to really feel that sense of achievement. Obviously.

Spoiler

/s MTX are a plague on game design. People never learn.

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People want free, and this is the cost and it's bleeding into everything.

"If you truly value something, pay for it."

Dark Ninja said:

That's a skin for blackout there is no gameplay attached to that. A character in this game would be something for MP since those have actual gameplay attached to them which none are in the stream.

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I'm just going off the Black Market in the game which refers to Hudson as a character and not a skin/outfit.

They should reduce the grind a bit, but I'm honestly not too worried about missing a skin I won't see in first person all that much.

I miss regular lootboxes

RexNovis said:

MTX totally don't impact game design for the worse guys. For realz. They just decided the grind to level up and get the loot naturally should be outrageously long because they wanted you to really feel that sense of achievement. Obviously.

Spoiler

/s MTX are a plague on game design. People never learn.

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You know that you could at least read up on it a little bit before posting a uninformed shitpost.

Getting to rank 199 to get Jason Statham is my life right now.

DeliciousSunnyD! said:

People want free, and this is the cost and it's bleeding into everything.

"If you truly value something, pay for it."

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People want 'free'... after paying $60 for a game? Is it just me or is something not adding up here?

Why didn't they use the daily/weekly challenges from BO3?

Nax said:

Sounds like they are artificially lengthening the game with insane grind. Not as big of a deal as the Star Wars backlash, since this is not locking actual characters behind a grind/pay-wall. But still sounds like a drag

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That's my sentiment. I did not buy this game, yet anyway, but I'm not looking forward to this concept. It's just a drag and a constant reminder that the game is there for your money first and foremost.

Honestly I prefer the supply drop systems of the past Call of Duty games to this BS.

Kalentan said:

I feel like your misunderstanding.

This system IS BAD. But it doesn't impact the rest of the game. The MTX system isn't interwoven with the standard leveling, prestiging, gun unlocking, and so on. After all the game was out for weeks before this part released and worked just fine.

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I was referring to these levels for the contraband stream. I guess they're called theirs and not levels but it's basically the same damn thing. End of the day they are increasing the amount of time and effort folks have to invest to get content. Why? So they are more encouraged to spend money on CoD points to bypass it instead despite already shelling out $60 for the game and possibly even $50 for a season pass. I will never understand how folks defend stuff like this.

DeliciousSunnyD! said:

People want free, and this is the cost and it's bleeding into everything.

"If you truly value something, pay for it."

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Except people did pay for this game. It's a full priced release with a $50 season pass attached to it. It's one of the most expensive game purchases you can make up front on console if you want to get access to all the content. So I fail to see how this idiom applies here.

That's exactly how it feels. I really didn't play that much of the Halloween event because of this. The face skin I wanted was some tiers up there. So knowing that, I didn't even try and only played my few rounds this weekend. It sucks they made it this way.

If there were actually challenges to get the cosmetics it would be better but just going by dumping insane amount of hours in the game is just not the way to go. Especially with the other games out now.

BernardoOne said:

You know that you could at least read up on it a little bit before posting a uninformed shitpost.

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Right so you're going to dismiss what I said because I said level instead of tier? It's the same damn concept. End of the day they made the process by which you gain access to content longer and more tedious so as to encourage people to spend more money on CoD points to bypass it. Or are you seriously gonna argue they extended the grind to access this stuff over previous titles for some other reason?

I've playing a quite bit of blops 4 and I really don't like the show pace for unlocking cosmetics for your call sign. I literally have only the banners from playing out for four days (mostly zombies). Neither the slow pace for earning the token to buy elixirs and talismans on zombies but it doesn't affect importantly the gameplay, only the reward/progression system.

For the rest, the game is a blast.

I play and I don't care about this at all. It doesn't affect game play in any way. Now if you had to grind for operators a la Rainbow 6 siege I wouldn't like that.

As long as it's forgettable cosmetics I'll continue to treat it as a random gift just for playing.

AtticusFincher said:

Why didn't they use the daily/weekly challenges from BO3?

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Because they are achieveable without an inordinate amount of time invested and therefore less tempting for folks to shell out more money to bypass it all.

RexNovis said:

I was referring to these levels for the contraband stream. I guess they're called theirs and not levels but it's basically the same damn thing. End of the day they are increasing the amount of time and effort folks have to invest to get content. Why? So they are more encouraged to spend money on CoD points to bypass it instead despite already shelling out $60 for the game and possibly even $50 for a season pass. I will never understand how folks defend stuff like this.


Except people did pay for this game. It's a full priced release with a $50 season pass attached to it. It's one of the most expensive game purchases you can make up front on console if you want to get access to all the content. So I fail to see how this idiom applies here.

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Yes it's a paid for game, but what I'm saying is, time = money and so much of people's time (and money) is consumed by games where they keep players engaged for long periods of time. F2P pricing methods are creeping into "traditionally priced" games because these games cannot compete monetarily. People don't really want to pay more than $60 upfront for a game anymore, so developers have to continually develop methods to "keep engagement high" as a result because otherwise players are just going to go to free-entry games.

Really, it's a complex problem, but the main thing is the "marketplace" wants as much for as little as possible and something has to give. All things have a price.

Ailanthium said:

People want 'free'... after paying $60 for a game? Is it just me or is something not adding up here?

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I'm more speaking that MTX/"Player Investment & Engagement" strategies showing up in traditionally priced games are a result of the video gaming marketplace-at-large wanting as much content for as little money upfront, for as long as possible.

Money = Time, especially in today's society, and the success of the F2P monetization model has a cascading effect in pretty much all major areas of game development for a myriad of reasons beyond just that they are 'highly successful' too.

KnightimeX said:

As long as it's forgettable cosmetics I'll continue to treat it as a random gift just for playing.

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This is the same way I feel, and the same way I feel about lootboxes in games like overwatch. As long as MTX arent something like in BFII at launch they are mostly OK. They are here to stay either way.

I do have a problem with the community being split across season pass/non season pass holders though, that's a bigger deal than some skins IMO.

RexNovis said:

Right so you're going to dismiss what I said because I said level instead of tier? It's the same damn concept. End of the day they made the process by which you gain access to content longer and more tedious so as to encourage people to spend more money on CoD points to bypass it. Or are you seriously gonna argue they extended the grind to access this stuff over previous titles for some other reason?

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That makes no sense whatsoever because the other titles had MTX too. You seem to be really confused on what you're trying to argue here.

Even worse as Fortnite?

I said it before but getting on BP 100 and specially getting the XP to unlock the last 100 skin was the worst grind I've ever witnessed in a videogame. Never before did I had the feeling that one company is disrespecting my playtime and the lifetime that I invest into that game as much as Epic did it there.

It literally, and I'm not even kidding, drove me into a kinda gaming multiplayer gaas burnout. I couldn't do it anymore, mentally and physically and I stopped playing Fortnite and won't come back. I played every single season until the current one, spend probably around 400-500 bucks (and I don't even regret that while playing) and even bought the extended battle pass for the current season and a few days later, I stopped. I was done. I just couldn't invest so much time anymore in just sitting around and doing nothing because I had to get to the first 5 places to get at least something you would call a descent amount of XP to level up. (That's a whole nother thing, awful gameplay mechanics to even get this XP) Anything else than the first 3, maybe 5 places gives you literally nothing, no matter how good you played and killed people, this is, XP wise, the only thing that matters, the placement of the round and it sucked so much and also, the life out of me.

I also stopped several other games cause it's exhausting in so many other games too. "Spend 300 hours here in the next 2 weeks or you will miss this limited item forever". I can't do this shit anymore. I rather stop playing these games completely than missing one of these items.

I thought about buying COD cause it felt so well done with so many cool and we'll developed modes and just fun to play, but hearing this is heartbreaking. I don't need this feeling in a videogame ever again. Fuck developers which doesn't respect my playtime. No matter if the items are free or not, they know exactly what they do here which is creating an artificial limitation to keeping you play this game and don't stop. But the balance is just horrible.

I would rather come back to a game, play it more and even support it, if it let me play through such a "pass" in a really enjoyable timeframe and let me complete it fast than if I have to grind like crazy to barely reach the last item.

Fuck that.

Dark Ninja said:

People pushed for the loot boxes to get removed, congrats they are mostly gone. Now people are mad they have to actually play the game 4 hours a day for the 50 days they have to get everything. They even have direct buy skins now through those orders they put up. This is what people were fighting for now they are mad it's there

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No we're "fighting for" no abusive business practices.

This is just another one. Remember, Activision designed the game. They're the ones who made it grindy to try and make you want to just spend money to "skip the grind" that they made.

Remember when cosmetic rewards were just... unlocked? Without any excessive grinding or money?

Edge said:

Even worse as Fortnite?

I said it before but getting on BP 100 and specially getting the XP to unlock the last 100 skin was the worst grind I've ever witnessed in a videogame. Never before did I had the feeling that one company is disrespecting my playtime and the time that I invest into the game so much as Epic did it here.

It literally, and I'm not even kidding, drove me into a kinda gaming multiplayer gaas burnout. I couldn't do it anymore, mentally and physically and I stopped playing Fortnite and won't come back. I played every single season until the current one, spend probably around 400-500 bucks (and I don't even regret that while playing) and even bought the extended battle pass for the current season and a few days later, I stopped. I was done. I just couldn't invest so much time anymore in just sitting around and doing nothing because I had to get to the first 5 places to get at least a something you would call a descent amount of XP to level up. Anything else as the first 3, maybe 5 places gives you literally nothing, no matter how good you played, this is, XP wise, the only thing that matters, the placement and it suck so much and the life out of me.

I also stopped several other games cause it's exhausting in so many other games too. Spend 300 hours here in the next 2 weeks or you will miss this limited item forever. I can't do this shit anymore. I rather stopped playing these games completely than missing one of these items.

I thought about buying COD cause it felt so well done with so many cool and we'll developed modes and just fun to play, but hearing this is heartbreaking. I don't need this feeling in a videogame ever again. Fuck developers which doesn't respect my playtime. No matter if the items are free or not, they know exactly what they do here which is creating an artificial limitation to keeping you play this game and don't stop. But the balance is just horrible.

I would rather come back to a game, play it more and even support it, if it let me play through such a "pass" in a really enjoyable timeframe and let me complete it fast as if I have to grind like crazy to barely reach the last item.

Fuck that.

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You could just play games if they are fun and not worry about collecting every stupid collectable they release. Why do you have to have every limited time item?

Pata Hikari said:

Remember when cosmetic rewards were just... unlocked? Without any excessive grinding or money?

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Those days are behind us forever. Before MTX publishers were folding left and right, they needed another revenue stream and they found it. As long as MTX arent too over the top (BFII, forza 7 at launch), they are fine. The other alternative is something like Gamepass, but publishers want (and probably need) recurring revenue with budgets as large as they are these days.

I'm completely okay with the amount of playing required to max out a Fortnite season's battle pass (if you complete each week of challenges you usually wind up in the low 90s out of 100 levels by the end), so it's frustrating that paid games like Rocket League and COD are implementing systems that are way more grindy than free-plus-$10-pass Fortnite.

Pata Hikari said:

No we're "fighting for" no abusive business practices.

This is just another one. Remember, Activision designed the game. They're the ones who made it grindy to try and make you want to just spend money to "skip the grind" that they made.

Remember when cosmetic rewards were just... unlocked? Without any excessive grinding or money?

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That time literally doesn't exist. People keep on making this shit up but it's not accurate at all.
Do feel free to list all the totes amazing cosmetic rewards Call of Duty 1 through 4 had. I'll wait.

All of the unlockable stuff is pure trash anyway. It's just like Rainbow Six Siege, a game I've played for 500 hours without ever touching the hideous cosmetic bullshit.

Dont understand why people feel they absolutely must have every tier unlocked. Just play the game to have fun and unlock what you unlock naturally. If you dont get every calling card or facepaont I think it will be ok.