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Oct 28, 2017
1,228
wiiu sold A TON more software, and about the same hardware. vita is a much bigger failure as a platform.
Any receipt about this or just talking without anything thick it up because obviously you are doing about WW. And no the Wiiu lost Nintendo more money than the vita did to Sony therefor the Wiiu was a much bigger failure tha the Vita. The wiiu caused Nintendo it's first financial loss in it's history.
 

Deleted member 10737

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Oct 27, 2017
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Any receipt about this or just talking without anything thick it up because obviously you are doing about WW.
receipt:
I promise I'll stop after this one.

Vita software in the US was so bad that the top 5 Wii U games combined sold more than every single Vita game combined (Packaged Software comp only)

and i don't think there's any receipt needed for WW, wiiu had 15 million seller titles and sold a total of 102 million games. just because we don't have the exact numbers for vita doesn't mean we should even entertain the possibility that it's anywhere near close to that number.
 
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fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,909
Any receipt about this or just talking without anything thick it up because obviously you are doing about WW. And no the Wiiu lost Nintendo more money than the vita did to Sony therefor the Wiiu was a much bigger failure tha the Vita. The wiiu caused Nintendo it's first financial loss in it's history.
No, the 3DS pricecut in 2011 was their first loss. I doubt Wii U actually lost money in the end though largely because software did well and Nintendo held it's launch price it's entire lifecycle.
 

Deleted member 10737

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Oct 27, 2017
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That's acceptable behavior from any company EXCEPT the company who made it. Millions of people bought the Vita. Fix it, don't abandon it. The WiiU sold like garbage too, but Nintendo didn't abandon it after year one.
yeah, people are acting like the vita was responsible for the vita failing. sony didn't do the right thing in abandoning their own platform, they just didn't care about it enough to try and fix its problems.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,992
That's acceptable behavior from any company EXCEPT the company who made it. Millions of people bought the Vita. Fix it, don't abandon it. The WiiU sold like garbage too, but Nintendo didn't abandon it after year one.

yeah, people are acting like the vita was responsible for the vita failing. sony didn't do the right thing in abandoning their own platform, they just didn't care about it enough to try and fix its problems.

Last time I checked, Nintendo discontinued the Wii U way before the Vita.

But Sony didn't support it....lol.

Support is more than just releasing games on it.
 

Deleted member 10737

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Oct 27, 2017
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Last time I checked, Nintendo discontinued the Wii U way before the Vita.
wii u was discontinued because they had a successor ready, and nintendo supported it with software for all its lifetime on the shelves, with top-tier titles from their top developers.
sony called vita a "legacy platform" a couple of years after launch, didn't support it past 2014 with any physical games, and has just left it to die. it's also discontinued everywhere other than japan for a few years and will be in japan too in 2019, and they're going to stop producing vita carts soon.
the fact that they've just let it barely exist isn't a sign if good support.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,909
Last time I checked, Nintendo discontinued the Wii U way before the Vita.

But Sony didn't support it....lol.

Support is more than just releasing games on it.
Wii U software publishing hasn't been discontinued. Actually even Wii hasn't yet. Vita has though, they're just filling out placed orders at this point.

Sony kept hardware production going longer but basically only for Japan/Asia. Western units haven't been shipped in years now.
 

Man God

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,300
Sony really stopped caring about the Vita after launch. It became quite noticeable that they were running out the string after that first holiday, basically just releasing what they already had in development. They clearly made the right choice dumping everything into making PS4 a huge success.
 

LiquidSolid

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,731
receipt:


and i don't think there's any receipt needed for WW, wiiu had 15 million seller titles and sold a total of 102 million games. just because we don't have the exact numbers for vita doesn't mean we should even entertain the possibility that it's anywhere near close to that number.
That's not proof. I have no idea if your claim is true or not and I'm not going to argue either way but we do know the Vita had a very high attach rate because Sony and devs told us as much. So we can't just assume your claim is fact because we honestly don't know.

That's acceptable behavior from any company EXCEPT the company who made it. Millions of people bought the Vita. Fix it, don't abandon it. The WiiU sold like garbage too, but Nintendo didn't abandon it after year one.
I wouldn't say they "fixed" it but I wouldn't say they abandoned it either. First party support stopped in 2015, over three years after launch, and even after that they were still funding ports and encouraging indies to support it.
 

Deleted member 10737

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Oct 27, 2017
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That's not proof. I have no idea if your claim is true or not and I'm not going to argue either way but we do know the Vita had a very high attach rate because Sony and devs told us as much. So we can't just assume your claim is fact because we honestly don't know.
my second claim about WW software sales or the first one? the first is based on NPD numbers and is factual so it's not up for debate that wii u sold a fuckton more software in NA compared to vita.
as for WW, while the platform was semi-successful in japan, it's disingenuous to argue that just because we don't have the numbers we can't know for sure. while NA isn't the same as all other regions, the fact that there's such a big disparity is the SW sales of wii u and vita can be used to safely assume that similar disparities also exist in most other regions. wii u had several titles that sold extremely well for a failed platform, whereas we don't even know if vita had more than 2 or 3 million sellers ww. even in japan, vita's biggest market, wiiu had 4 million sellers compared to vita's 1.
vita had a very dedicated base that kept buying lots of games for it, but that base is likely very small to the point that it doesn't matter if each of them bought 50 or 60 games for their system, the numbers still won't add up to anything meaningful. the platform lacked any mainstream presence.
 

Zool

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,233
yeah, people are acting like the vita was responsible for the vita failing. sony didn't do the right thing in abandoning their own platform, they just didn't care about it enough to try and fix its problems.
Funny thing is.. Sony is doing this constantly (magicbook, ps vr et cetera)
 

Deleted member 10737

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Oct 27, 2017
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Funny thing is.. Sony is doing this constantly (magicbook, ps vr et cetera)
yeah they're quick to drop a platform at the first sign of failure. even the psp, a massively successful platform, wasn't as well supported as it should have been. they just drop everything to focus on their main home consoles.
 

Megatron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,445
Last time I checked, Nintendo discontinued the Wii U way before the Vita.

But Sony didn't support it....lol.

Support is more than just releasing games on it.


No. it's really not. You think Sony supported the vita and your proof is that although they themselves stopped making games for it after their first planned wave of titles, they continued to at least make and sell the hardware because other companies were making software for it? I'm sorry, no. After I buy the hardware I need the company I bought it from keep making software for it. It's irrelevant to me how long they keep selling the hardware. I already have mine. We buy consoles for software.
 

Zool

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,233
Can someone explain to me why this 'biggest failure evahhhr' has 1600 games an counting?

Must be because there is no money to be made... or what?
Why are devs still creating games for Vita?
They like to burn money? They don't want to earn money?

Based on 'facts' in this thread you can't make any money on Vita, but I heard different stories.

It has more games than NES, GENESIS, XBOX, GAMECUBE, WIIU et cetera. !?

(I think these numbers are FAR from complete or correct (downloads don't count I guess), or Europe and Japan is doung so great. It justifies all those ports and exclusives).
 

Megatron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,445
I wouldn't say they "fixed" it but I wouldn't say they abandoned it either. First party support stopped in 2015, over three years after launch, and even after that they were still funding ports and encouraging indies to support it.


No, they abandoned it. Look at the quantity and type of titles they released. 13 original retail titles in 2012, 6 in 2013. In 2014 they released one original retail title (freedom wars) Let that sink in. The system turned two years old in 2014, and Sony could only muster one game for it. As soon as they saw the initial sales figures come in they stopped green lighting new titles for it. Sony Bend for example, proposed several vita projects hoping to make use of the engine they developed for Uncharted Golden Abyss, but Sony rejected every proposal they made until they finally started proposing PS4 games. When Days Gone debuts next year, that will be 7 years since Golden Abyss which I think is the last game they made.
 

Man God

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,300
3DS was Nintendo's main console. DS versus Wii is the interesting fight in which one was the main. GCN wanted to be the main console but GBA put up a grand fight.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,909
Yeah, if anything, Wii-U is a larger failure by a magnitude considering it was the main Nintendo console.

That said, yeah, unfortunately Vita was a failure despite being a great machine. Damn those stupid memory cards.
I'd argue 3DS was very much Nintendo's "main" platform the past several years.

Wii U and Vita feel likely pretty equivalent failures globally. Wii U did quite a bit better in America and Vita in Japan but globally they ended super close. And ended badly.
 

LiquidSolid

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,731
my second claim about WW software sales or the first one? the first is based on NPD numbers and is factual so it's not up for debate that wii u sold a fuckton more software in NA compared to vita.
as for WW, while the platform was semi-successful in japan, it's disingenuous to argue that just because we don't have the numbers we can't know for sure. while NA isn't the same as all other regions, the fact that there's such a big disparity is the SW sales of wii u and vita can be used to safely assume that similar disparities also exist in most other regions. wii u had several titles that sold extremely well for a failed platform, whereas we don't even know if vita had more than 2 or 3 million sellers ww. even in japan, vita's biggest market, wiiu had 4 million sellers compared to vita's 1.
vita had a very dedicated base that kept buying lots of games for it, but that base is likely very small to the point that it doesn't matter if each of them bought 50 or 60 games for their system, the numbers still won't add up to anything meaningful. the platform lacked any mainstream presence.
Your first claim was about worldwide sales, not US figures (not NA, NPD tracks Canada separately), so I'm not sure what you're going on about here. The Wii U and Vita didn't sell around the same numbers in the US and calling the system a "bigger failure as a platform" based on its performance in one region would be pretty silly (though I have to say, arguing "your system is a bigger failure than mine" is hilarious).

The difference is pretty dramatic in the US but acting like that's the norm when the Wii U significantly outsold the Vita in the US (I think someone said 3:1? I'm not sure) but was outsold by the Vita worldwide (assuming the EEDAR are correct and I don't see any reason to doubt them), doesn't make any sense. Different markets obviously reacted to those two systems very differently, so you can't just assume they're the same.

If the number of games people were buying on Vita didn't add up to anything or matter then I don't think Sony or devs would've talked them up or it would've received as much support as it did. Come on, you're being that guy who shits on news that indie games sell well on Switch.

And just because a system doesn't have a lot of million sellers, doesn't mean software doesn't sell on it. You're touting the number of Wii U million sellers in Japan but according to Chris1964's yearly charts, the Vita still ended up selling significantly more software overall every year. Why? Because it received a lot more games that may not have sold huge numbers but all added up in the end. I'd link the charts but I don't want to link to the old site, so if you're going to go look, make sure your ad block is on (or maybe just check google's cache of those threads).

No, they abandoned it. Look at the quantity and type of titles they released. 13 original retail titles in 2012, 6 in 2013. In 2014 they released one original retail title (freedom wars) Let that sink in. The system turned two years old in 2014, and Sony could only muster one game for it. As soon as they saw the initial sales figures come in they stopped green lighting new titles for it. Sony Bend for example, proposed several vita projects hoping to make use of the engine they developed for Uncharted Golden Abyss, but Sony rejected every proposal they made until they finally started proposing PS4 games. When Days Gone debuts next year, that will be 7 years since Golden Abyss which I think is the last game they made.
Why are you focusing only on retail titles? That makes no sense, it's not the only way to support a system. I bought Oreshika and Helldivers in 2015 and they're both first party games.

And yeah, I know they stopped greenlighting games once it flopped and I found that really frustrating at first but in hindsight, I think that's understandable given how poorly it was selling and that they did enough to make up for that with the support they gave to ports, niche Japanese games and indie games. Hell, it still had a small presence at PSX last year and games are still coming out for it. So while sure, they absolutely could've done better, they also could've done a lot worse.
 

B.C.

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Sep 28, 2018
1,240
The consensus isn't way off... Halo 5 is clearly isn't a massive success "relatively". Since when does a Halo game sit behind Battlefield and Battlefront?

Not to mention the massive budget H5 had compared to previous entries that outsold it.

I'm not sure what metric someone has to use to argue Halo 5 was relatively a massive success. Relative to what? This list looks a lot like last Gen's list, except Halo's at the opposite end.
Halo 5 is three years old bruv. Its still on the list. STILL! No more needs be said.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,323
Halo 5 is three years old bruv. Its still on the list. STILL! No more needs be said.

Why would age alone knock it off the list? This is a life-to-date list... Age is an advantage if the game has legs...

GTAV is a 4year old port of a last-Gen game. Battlefront and Blops3 are also 3 years old. Advanced Warfare is 4 years old. Over Half of the list is Halo5s age or older... I really don't see your point...

with that, there's much more to be said. This, US-centric LTD list alone doesn't even come close to telling the story of the game's success/failures.

It's weird to me, Infinite Warfare is on the list, but sold 50% of its predecessor, so everyone can readily admit that is no bueno- including Activision who announced they were taking a hard pivot towards their roots.

Halo5 appears to have sold roughly half of what its predecessor sold and people are all like "look it's on the list! Nuff said!"
 
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Megatron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,445
Why are you focusing only on retail titles? That makes no sense, it's not the only way to support a system. I bought Oreshika and Helldivers in 2015 and they're both first party games.

And yeah, I know they stopped greenlighting games once it flopped and I found that really frustrating at first but in hindsight, I think that's understandable given how poorly it was selling and that they did enough to make up for that with the support they gave to ports, niche Japanese games and indie games. Hell, it still had a small presence at PSX last year and games are still coming out for it. So while sure, they absolutely could've done better, they also could've done a lot worse.


Don't pretend you don't know why. Retail titles, higher dollar games are what most people look for when they buy consoles. You know that. Sony's retail support of the vita by the years is very telling. It's great that you are happy with small digital games, but I know you are smart enough to understand most people aren't satisfied with just that two years after their $300 system released.
 

Mass Effect

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 31, 2017
16,753
The consensus isn't way off... Halo 5 is clearly isn't a massive success "relatively". Since when does a Halo game sit behind Battlefield and Battlefront?

Not to mention the massive budget H5 had compared to previous entries that outsold it.

I'm not sure what metric someone has to use to argue Halo 5 was relatively a massive success. Relative to what? This list looks a lot like last Gen's list, except Halo's at the opposite end.

People also need to remember that this is NPD only. So it just covers the US, which is by far Microsoft's strongest territory. Worldwide sales for Halo (and most Microsoft games in general) are certainly weaker in comparison to the US.
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,287
Funny thing is.. Sony is doing this constantly (magicbook, ps vr et cetera)
giphy.gif


Sony abandoned PSVR? WTF when?
 

ZhugeEX

Senior Analyst at Niko Partners
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
3,099
Why can't we just agree both the Wii U and Vita failed.
 

>__

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 28, 2018
474
Both WiiU and Vita were embarassing failures that led to both companies bowing out of that exclusive market: Nintendo merged their handheld and console lines and Sony abandoned their handheld line.

Would be curious to see the total software sales for each platform just to see the full picture.
 

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,200
Both WiiU and Vita were embarassing failures that led to both companies bowing out of that exclusive market: Nintendo merged their handheld and console lines and Sony abandoned their handheld line.

Would be curious to see the total software sales for each platform just to see the full picture.

WiiU software sold a little bit more than 100m WW (total sales of games with a retail presence).

No idea about the Vita but it is very likely less using the same metric.
 

Bundy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,931

mikeys_legendary

The Fallen
Sep 26, 2018
3,008
That there's only one exclusive in both of those lists (Spider-Man will make it soon, I have no doubt) says a lot about people who play games...

Most people just want a CoD box.
 

Kasey

Member
Nov 1, 2017
10,822
Boise
It seems to me Vita failed as a successor to PSP and alternative to 3DS, yet found an audience for indie and Japanese releases. Wouldn't call it a massive failure if people were still buying enough games for publishers and devs to release games on it years after it's release.
 

LiquidSolid

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,731
Don't pretend you don't know why. Retail titles, higher dollar games are what most people look for when they buy consoles. You know that. Sony's retail support of the vita by the years is very telling. It's great that you are happy with small digital games, but I know you are smart enough to understand most people aren't satisfied with just that two years after their $300 system released.
I don't really know what to say to you. Yes, they obviously gave up on the whole "console in your hands" sales pitch because throwing tens of millions of dollars at big budget Vita games that were going to sell a few hundred thousand at best would've been an awful business move (and honestly, is something they really should've realised before the Vita came out). Especially when the Vita was floundering anyway.

And in its place, they seemed to focus more on trying to keep existing Vita owners satisfied without breaking the bank. Sometimes that led to them publishing ports of AAA games, like Borderlands 2 and RE Revelations 2, but for the most part it led to supporting niche Japanese games and indie games. Sure, those "small digital games" probably aren't going to sell systems but it's still support and I'm sure they made a hell of a lot more money during that phase of the Vita's life than they made off its first couple of years.

Why can't we just agree both the Wii U and Vita failed.
lol, you'll find no argument with me.
 

theSoularian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,247
I demand a study investigation to found out who these people are that keeps buying Call of Duty every year.
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
49,774
Your first claim was about worldwide sales, not US figures (not NA, NPD tracks Canada separately), so I'm not sure what you're going on about here. The Wii U and Vita didn't sell around the same numbers in the US and calling the system a "bigger failure as a platform" based on its performance in one region would be pretty silly (though I have to say, arguing "your system is a bigger failure than mine" is hilarious).

The difference is pretty dramatic in the US but acting like that's the norm when the Wii U significantly outsold the Vita in the US (I think someone said 3:1? I'm not sure) but was outsold by the Vita worldwide (assuming the EEDAR are correct and I don't see any reason to doubt them), doesn't make any sense. Different markets obviously reacted to those two systems very differently, so you can't just assume they're the same.

If the number of games people were buying on Vita didn't add up to anything or matter then I don't think Sony or devs would've talked them up or it would've received as much support as it did. Come on, you're being that guy who shits on news that indie games sell well on Switch.

And just because a system doesn't have a lot of million sellers, doesn't mean software doesn't sell on it. You're touting the number of Wii U million sellers in Japan but according to Chris1964's yearly charts, the Vita still ended up selling significantly more software overall every year. Why? Because it received a lot more games that may not have sold huge numbers but all added up in the end. I'd link the charts but I don't want to link to the old site, so if you're going to go look, make sure your ad block is on (or maybe just check google's cache of those threads).
i don't really know how to reply to you since you're insistent on using the lack of info to prove stuff.
but people are right, both were failures, there's no use in trying figure out which one was the bigger failure.