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What are you getting?

  • Nothing!

    Votes: 333 49.1%
  • MacBook Air

    Votes: 54 8.0%
  • Mac mini

    Votes: 64 9.4%
  • iPad Pro 11”

    Votes: 150 22.1%
  • iPad Pro 12.9”

    Votes: 117 17.3%

  • Total voters
    678

StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
Thanks for this! My main use would be adobe suite and Cinema 4D, I was thinking the mac mini, upgrade the ram myself and adding a egpu.
Yeah, you certainly want to do the RAM yourself. You can get 32gb of Corsair RAM for less than half the price Apple is charging in the Mini. If you get at least the $1100 model, you're getting 256GB of SSD anyway, which is probably ample, any working files are better used via an external storage solution, the Thunderbolt 3 makes that more than adequate, so the standard SSD should be fine.

A Razer Core X is around $300, you can slap in even a $300 GPU and it's going to massively outperform the top MacBook Pro for considerably less.

Software has to specifically allow for eGPUs, but support is seemingly good and only getting better. Should meet your needs well. If you favour the i7 over the i5 though, I really don't know. We should know the thermal performance next week, but I'd imagine it's robust. So the CPU is kind of a coin flip at this point, depends on your budget after the other stuff. But you should be able to get the standard $1100 package, 32GB of RAM, the Core X, and an RX 580 for around two grand if you shop around.
 

Mr. Wonderful

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,290
Apple needs to make up their mind about if the TouchBar is or isn't the future of the Mac. It's already practically a gimmick, but when you only include it on a small fraction of your devices, what developer in hell is going to support it?

On the 2016 MBPs, even Apple doesn't seem to be prioritizing development on it, with the thing experiencing a handful of bugs and glitches that have been around for years.The OLED brightness and screen quality is also so low next to the main display, that it's like, why even bother?

It's also unfortunate to see Apple doubling down on their butterfly keyboards with the new Airs, though at least at this point, they've worked out some of the worst kinks, and in a thin form factor, it makes sense. I'd love to see the 2019 MBPs just give in and forgo the butterfly keyboards, or at least provide more travel and reliability due to the thickness.
 

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,879
Asia
Apple needs to make up their mind about if the TouchBar is or isn't the future of the Mac. It's already practically a gimmick, but when you only include it on a small fraction of your devices, what developer in hell is going to support it?

On the 2016 MBPs, even Apple doesn't seem to be prioritizing development on it, with the thing experiencing a handful of bugs and glitches that have been around for years.The OLED brightness and screen quality is also so low next to the main display, that it's like, why even bother?

It's also unfortunate to see Apple doubling down on their butterfly keyboards with the new Airs, though at least at this point, they've worked out some of the worst kinks, and in a thin form factor, it makes sense. I'd love to see the 2019 MBPs just give in and forgo the butterfly keyboards, or at least provide more travel and reliability due to the thickness.

Honestly, as a MBP touchbar owner, I think it's dead. They couldn't build it cheaply enough to go in any product except the MBP, and now with the MBA they have a perfectly fine workaround to use every part of the T2 except the touchbar. I suspect they will dump it - getting some applause on stage when they see the full keyboard - and then cover it up with words of "4th gen keyboard".

My guess is that the all keys solution is still in prototyping, but that they are waiting on MicroLED to be feasible. The next MBP update is probably FaceID, which we all want, but I guess has some tech work to do as Apple hasn't shipped a multi-profile version of it yet.

Brightness was never the point of the touchbar - it just had to be legible while consuming as little battery power as possible. But the reality is that it's not a game changing feature, and the cost is really dooming its future.

It's weird, but I think for the features Apple wants to do, replacing Intel with ARM feels a lot closer than I thought last year...
 

StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
The ARM thing, I feel like when they reveal the new Mac Pro, they have to show their hand. If they're launching a product that's not going to get a refresh for years, the whole line up will retain Intel until it's time to switch it up again.

The iMacs need a complete reworking too. The iMac Pro was a stop-gap product. It's not next year, but it really could be in the near future.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,095
Sweden
iMac is hopefully getting a redesign next year. The Surface Studio looks considerably better, and I can imagine it supporting Apple Pencil in a similar fashion to Microsoft.
 

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,879
Asia
Totally agree with Stuburns, they can't ship an Intel Mac Pro and then change to ARM. So that could totally explain the delay. A14X CPU, T3 north bridge, PCIe and NVMe there for storage.

iMac is hopefully getting a redesign next year. The Surface Studio looks considerably better, and I can imagine it supporting Apple Pencil in a similar fashion to Microsoft.

I would be shocked if they supported that on the desktop, because MacOS needs a lot of work to support it properly. But I agree, it would be a dream add even if it only worked in select apps - Honestly I would love to buy a Surface Studio if it didn't cost a king's ransom. 1.5-2.5x 13" Macbook Pro's is just wayyy too much. A Mac where I could reuse my Pencil 2 would be amazing.

Honestly we still need XCode on iOS though...
 

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,879
Asia
I'm hoping there will be enough stock to just walk in and pick up the 12.9"

It's not a bad idea, although here (Asia) the real strategy is to wait until launch morning, then buy it off the Apple Store app. For whatever reason iPad Pro is one of those products that you can't preorder and get in-store pickup, but once it releases, you can. So you can basically just buy it while on the bus/train and then just walk in and pick-up. Otherwise, the app says it won't ship for another 1-2 weeks
 

Veliladon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,557
You don't really need to choose between Intel and ARM. An A12 costs them like $30-40 to fabricate. You could basically stick one in every machine.

Totally agree with Stuburns, they can't ship an Intel Mac Pro and then change to ARM. So that could totally explain the delay. A14X CPU, T3 north bridge, PCIe and NVMe there for storage.

You don't need a T3 north bridge because a) the T series security chips are stripped down A processors and b) the A series processors already have both a north and south bridge functionality built into it. That's the whole point behind a SOC. Everything is on the die.
 

Gurgelhals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,709
I have a quick question regarding the integrated GPU of the Mac mini: I know the Intel UHD Graphics 630 is extremely weak (particularly in relation to the two higher-end CPU models available for the new Mac mini) and that it is basically useless for gaming or any demanding rendering task.

However, I am curious about whether or not (and how) the UHD 630 impacts common and everyday use cases under Mac OS (i.e. Office, Internet, video streams, some basic photo editing–that kind of stuff). Does anyone know how much of those very common tasks such as drawing the user interface, decoding video streams, etc. Mac OS actually offloads onto the GPU? And would the UHD 630 already be a bottleneck in these cases?

Let's say I'm using the Mac mini to drive a 4K display at its native resolution, I have quite a lot windows and many browser tabs on my desktop, including a video stream or two, will this bring the UHD 630 to its knees already (which would manifest in stuff like the user interface not feeling snappy)? Or are these kind of tasks still mainly dependant on the RAM and the CPU?
 

Veliladon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,557
macOS fully accelerates window composition and has done since Jaguar. The windowing system mostly leans on fill rate and VRAM as it goes up in resolution. It leans a little bit more on memory bandwidth to achieve effects like expose but in general most modern day IGPs should easily be able to handle it. You have to remember that we've been doing this since AGP and the GeForce 2 MX. The 630 is a golden god compared to that.

As far as video goes, as long as you're using a supported codec (H264, H265) you can fully hardware accelerate and it's usually transparent as long as the app uses videotoolbox which has been around since Mountain Lion. All the popular playback apps like VLC and mpv use it along with all of the video editing apps.

You shouldn't have too bad a time with a 630. Keep in mind us MBP users use it every day with retina displays to keep power usage down and it does an amazing job.
 

darkvir

Member
Oct 26, 2017
104
I'm pulling the trigger on a new 12.9 iPad Pro! Wasn't there a sleeve type case for the previous generation?
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 9330

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,990
So, external display question. I know Apple said the iPad Pro can now power a 4K/5K display, which is cool. But I've been looking around for a 5K monitor that runs off of USB-C and/or DisplayPort and I can't find one? From the footage of the hands-on area it looked like they were plugged into the LG UltraFine monitors but I though the 5K version of that required Thunderbolt 3, not just USB-C? (I know the smaller 4K one is just USB-C)
 

Haselbacher

Member
Oct 27, 2017
341
So, external display question. I know Apple said the iPad Pro can now power a 4K/5K display, which is cool. But I've been looking around for a 5K monitor that runs off of USB-C and/or DisplayPort and I can't find one? From the footage of the hands-on area it looked like they were plugged into the LG UltraFine monitors but I though the 5K version of that required Thunderbolt 3, not just USB-C? (I know the smaller 4K one is just USB-C)

Sorry, no input, but what is the use case for this?
I can't find any use case for me for an iPad. As long as I can't run Python or something...
 

Deleted member 5876

Big Seller
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,559
So, external display question. I know Apple said the iPad Pro can now power a 4K/5K display, which is cool. But I've been looking around for a 5K monitor that runs off of USB-C and/or DisplayPort and I can't find one? From the footage of the hands-on area it looked like they were plugged into the LG UltraFine monitors but I though the 5K version of that required Thunderbolt 3, not just USB-C? (I know the smaller 4K one is just USB-C)

Don't confuse connection type (USBC) with transport protocol (thunderbolt 3). USBC is fully capable of having thunderbolt capability. But it doesn't necessarily mean all USBC devices implement it.

Please read this article:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/compu...l-it-be-released-and-what-will-it-do-for-pcs/
 

Deleted member 2474

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,318
So, external display question. I know Apple said the iPad Pro can now power a 4K/5K display, which is cool. But I've been looking around for a 5K monitor that runs off of USB-C and/or DisplayPort and I can't find one? From the footage of the hands-on area it looked like they were plugged into the LG UltraFine monitors but I though the 5K version of that required Thunderbolt 3, not just USB-C? (I know the smaller 4K one is just USB-C)

I think the answer is that the UltraFine 5K can accept non-TB input over USB-C, but only at 4K, so they're just upscaling the 4K output from the iPad to the 5K display.
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,994
So, external display question. I know Apple said the iPad Pro can now power a 4K/5K display, which is cool. But I've been looking around for a 5K monitor that runs off of USB-C and/or DisplayPort and I can't find one? From the footage of the hands-on area it looked like they were plugged into the LG UltraFine monitors but I though the 5K version of that required Thunderbolt 3, not just USB-C? (I know the smaller 4K one is just USB-C)
The specs say that it can support up to 4K, not 5K. I would expect that it is upscaled rather than being rendered natively.
Art and photo manipulation come to mind.
It's a touchscreen device. How do you plan on using a monitor when it doesn't support mice?
The video output is for presenting content or watching media on your TV, not using it as a computer.
 

Aiii

何これ
Member
Oct 24, 2017
8,179
Apple just took the money for the iPad, so expecting it to show up a day or so early.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 9330

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,990
Don't confuse connection type (USBC) with transport protocol (thunderbolt 3). USBC is fully capable of having thunderbolt capability. But it doesn't necessarily mean all USBC devices implement it.

Please read this article:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/compu...l-it-be-released-and-what-will-it-do-for-pcs/

I very much know the difference between Thunderbolt 3 and USB-C. That's why I was confused as to how Apple had their USB-C iPads hooked up to Thunderbolt 3 displays.

Detuned's answer makes sense. I think what I'll do is plug a retina MacBook into. 27" UltraFine and see what happens. That'll be the same thing that the iPad will do.

Sorry, no input, but what is the use case for this?
I can't find any use case for me for an iPad. As long as I can't run Python or something...

Oh I'm not gonna get one, I just like to know things
 

Tobor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,418
Richmond, VA
I believe not, but instead it has 2 resting angles.

I just found this out looking at it tonight, and I'm bummed. I love the versatility of the old keyboard cover. I could use it as a video stand or a keyboard, and the keys were covered up when it was folded back for reading. I I want to watch a video now I have the keyboard out.

Now I lose all that for a second angle when I was fine with the angle as is. I'm disappointed.
 

Juice

Member
Dec 28, 2017
555
I just found this out looking at it tonight, and I'm bummed. I love the versatility of the old keyboard cover. I could use it as a video stand or a keyboard, and the keys were covered up when it was folded back for reading. I I want to watch a video now I have the keyboard out.

Now I lose all that for a second angle when I was fine with the angle as is. I'm disappointed.

Same. Every night for the last two years I've folded it up to watch videos at night. I guess I'll just buy a small tablet stand for that instead
 

Tobor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,418
Richmond, VA
Same. Every night for the last two years I've folded it up to watch videos at night. I guess I'll just buy a small tablet stand for that instead

Yeah, it's annoying.

One the one hand the added space between the top row of keys and the screen is nice. And it covers the back now, which is nice.

On the other hand the keys are now exposed while reading in portrait and I've lost the video stand.

Argh. I need to see this in person.
 

StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
In relation to the monitor issue, it appears Apple have a new one coming soon, presumably next year with the Pro. As they slipped this little nugget into the new Mini documentation.

DrBs3EOXgAUISU4.jpg-large-2-2.jpeg
 

StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
Or it could just be their version of a 'generic' monitor for manual info purposes.
I guess we'd need a higher res version, but I'm pretty sure that's a little Apple logo at the bottom. And the stand is clearly Apple style.

EDIT: Actually, it's just the grey line from below. Who knows, maybe wishful thinking. My 1080p monitor will hold out for now though.
 
Last edited:

Gurgelhals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,709
macOS fully accelerates window composition and has done since Jaguar. The windowing system mostly leans on fill rate and VRAM as it goes up in resolution. It leans a little bit more on memory bandwidth to achieve effects like expose but in general most modern day IGPs should easily be able to handle it. You have to remember that we've been doing this since AGP and the GeForce 2 MX. The 630 is a golden god compared to that.

As far as video goes, as long as you're using a supported codec (H264, H265) you can fully hardware accelerate and it's usually transparent as long as the app uses videotoolbox which has been around since Mountain Lion. All the popular playback apps like VLC and mpv use it along with all of the video editing apps.

You shouldn't have too bad a time with a 630. Keep in mind us MBP users use it every day with retina displays to keep power usage down and it does an amazing job.

Excellent, thanks. I was just a bit concerned about the relative power disparity between the quite powerful i7 8700 and the very weak UHD 630 (instead of at least using something like the Iris Pro line), as well as the lack of an additional dedicated GPU for high performance tasks (the way they do it with the Macbook Pro line). I guess that's just a result of putting an actual desktop CPU in there, where the integrated GPU really is just an afterthought, but not having the space to pair it with a dedicated desktop GPU.

Then again, I just checked the Activity Monitor of my old 2012 Retina MacBook Pro and that one is pretty much always running on the integrated GPU. It only switches to the dedicated GPU when an application explicitly requests it (and only Photos, iMovie and some of the Adobe applications seem to do that). So the UHD 630 should indeed be good enough for most everyday tasks.
 

iFirez

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,555
England
Strangely my Smart Keyboard Folio was dispatched today, my Pencil and actual iPad Pro are still preparing to dispatch. Maybe I'll get each part of the order on every day... Keyboard - Monday, Pencil - Tuesday, iPad - Wednesday.
 
Jul 3, 2018
1,252
Well I just ordered the 12.9" iPad Pro in 256gb from Verizon. Plan to use it for digital art mostly, I'm currently using a Lenovo Miix tablet for that and Windows 10 is really irritated me, back to iOS I go!
 
Oct 27, 2017
594
Still tossing up selling my 2015 Mbp and getting a 12.9"ipad pro. All I use it for is internet browsing/media consumption, nothing too heavy. The only thing holding me back is the lack of a trackpad.
Anyone that recently made a similar switch?
 

Kordelle

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,612
Pre-ordered the Air today, iPad lacks some Word features I need for University, so for me an iPad Pro doesn't make sense.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 9330

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,990
The second Office gets feature partity for the iPad it's going to be amazing. I was following along in Excel in lecture and on iPad it can't do pivot tables. Like, at all.

If I were to buy a $300 piece of shit laptop it would do pivot tables.
 

StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
Well, they have a "generic" monitor image when you're updating your desktop Mac's OS and it looks like the old LED/Thunderbolt displays. This looks substantially different.
I probably did jump the gun though to be fair. I just wanted to give a heads up for people who might regret not holding out if a new Apple one arrives.

I've been looking at a bunch of 4k LG monitors, but I've decided to hold off for now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,846
I probably did jump the gun though to be fair. I just wanted to give a heads up for people who might regret not holding out if a new Apple one arrives.

I've been looking at a bunch of 4k LG monitors, but I've decided to hold off for now.

I've got a Dell PQ2415, but it's always been rather spotty with connections and waking from sleep. I'd get a 21.5" 4K monitor from Apple in a heartbeat to replace it.
 

Deleted member 2474

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,318
I just wish someone made a damn 5K monitor that worked over a DisplayPort 1.4 plug. Dell, LG, HP, etc. all stopped making 5120x2880 displays altogether (save the UltraFine 5K) as far as I can tell.

I have a 4K 27" monitor and while it's much better than 1440p, I can still very much see the pixels (and the scaling blur in macOS).
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,846
I just wish someone made a damn 5K monitor that worked over a DisplayPort 1.4 plug. Dell, LG, HP, etc. all stopped making 5120x2880 displays altogether (save the UltraFine 5K) as far as I can tell.

I have a 4K 27" monitor and while it's much better than 1440p, I can still very much see the pixels (and the scaling blur in macOS).
Problem for 5K and TB3 is that the spec only has two 1.2 streams, which means you have to use MST to get it working. 4K meanwhile is quite simple at this point.
 

Antiwhippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,458
So what is the best astropad alternative for windows currently?

Got an 11 inch 256gb with an apple pen coming my way.