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October Jobs report: October jobs report smashes expectations, wages rise at fastest pace since 2009
- Thread starter Mr.Awesome
- Start date
Lemme copy paste for you:
"wages rise at fastest pace since 2009" = they used to rise by 0.01%. Now they have risen by 0.02%!! WOW! AMAZING!"
The above is an example of bullshit. The numbers might be factually correct but the way the whole thing is phrased and framed is bullshit. Rich still getting richer, middle class still getting royally screwed. Graph was provided to prove it.
Statistics and words can be factual and still propagate a BS msg. Fuck that noise. Things are not ok.
That isn't bullshit. Just because you don't think it's important doesn't mean it isn't. Wages growing at a faster pace is a good thing and it's reasonable to be glad about it.
Your argument reminds me of people who deny global warming because 2 degrees is so little or CO2 is a small percentage of our atmosphere.
wtf?
I don't think I can explain myself any better than I have. I feel you took my attack on BS statistics too personally. I am hurt by your defensiveness.
I don't think that Trump deserves credit for this, and I think in general Presidents get both too much blame and credit for how the economy does. With that said I think it's sad that Era jumped down the OP's throat for posting a positive story.
Trump is terrible. He's an evil, uncivil, racist, sexist, xenophobic piece of trash and by far the worst President in 100 years. That doesn't mean that if he ever did something right (I'm not holding my breath) we should attack the messenger who posts about it. In this case it's particularly true as economic numbers are not really due to the President to begin with. We rightfully mock Fox News for burying stories that don't fit their narrative, yet so many in this thread were upset that the OP shared economic data without any spin attached to it.
It's not a BS statistic so your argument is false. The analogy is an example of the same reasoning you're using. It's small so it can't mean anything. And then you throw an argument from incredulity/anecdote on top.
I'm not defensive, you're just wrong.
This.
I read so many sob stories of people being in a rut for years and their story doesn't even include an attempt to earn a raise.
If employees at low skill jobs are so replaceable then why would they give someone a significant raise when they could just let them go.
See, that was not my reasoning though. I am a bit insulted you would suggest I am that..umm...ignorant of mathematics?
Hopefully, other posters have understood it though. Maybe one of them can explain it to you further. I have run out of ideas. You can always re-read my posts and see if you can interpret them in a more positive light. *shrug*
Good night.
This is absolutely why this "good news" scares me so much.
I hate the republican way of economic growth which is just to horribly destabilize the economy in order to have short term bubble economies.
The Economy is gonna crash inevitably; the "better" it gets the worse the aftermath., the important thing now is to keep a close eye and to get ready.
I'm pretty sure you've realized your argument is bad.
You tried to argue wage growth was bullshit because your wage didn't go up. Which is just a straight up fallacious argument. Then you mentioned the percentages and didn't actually make an argument accept giving a sarcastic "WOW! AMAZING!" You can pretend you're not making precisely the same argument in the analogy I offered but it's clear you were.
The stat isn't bullshit. It's useful. You trying to make points about things it isn't meant to track doesn't prove it's not useful.
I mean sure if they're suddenly and solely reacting to this but you don't need to be a wizard to find evidence of people in this very thread getting nervous about overheated housing and stock markets, wage stagnation (followed by erratic catch up) and the consequences of record low interest rates and you don't need to be a time traveler to go examine this as a pattern.
I would hate Trump regardless because he's a racist criminal but I genuinely want the fundamentals of the economy to be strong and stable but some of these positives are historical warning signs.
The tax cut was fucking foolish economically and politically and strong employment and flat wages and the collapse of retail and difficulty filling advanced positions is not something anyone should be excited about.
If my "guys" the liberals take power they are almost certain to inherit midterm financial disaster. The fed should really have started properly raising interest rates about a year and a half ago.
Caveat - I am not an economist I am just old and part of a pattern recognizing species.
Oh and great we're all primed to blame it on Mexico and China. Yay.
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You don't seem to understand how the GOP operates:
Step 1: Giant fiscal stimulus via giant tax cuts (see 1.7 trillion dollar federal tax cut, mainly for those who need it least), creating a massively unsustainable deficit. Don't cut any entitlements at this time.
Step 2: Sit around for a bit while the economy picks up steam and eventually overheats, raising inflation and interest rates.
Step 3: While public is happy in short term with tax cuts, entitlements still in place, and low unemployment, break the news that "We must do something to close this giant budget deficit! Entitlements, regulations, and protections (labor/environmental/social) that poor, working, and middle classes depend on you say? Onto the chopping block with them!"
Rinse. Repeat.
Every fucking time until the vast majority of the population works at Walmart part-time for $7.00 an hour with no benefits.
The issue with your logic is that you are saying exactly the same things that conservatives were saying under Obama. "Economy isn't really good. It just looks like it is and it will crash soon!" Sure we have been due recession and I do agree that it's imminent, BUT there's nothing concrete that shows that it will happen any time soon. It migh and by chance you will be correct. If anything I'm surprised that the recession didn't start a year ago. Historically it should have.
Well ignoring a bunch of your (understandable and normal) reductive phrasing I absolutely concede that during Obama's presidency republicans (not small c conservatives) did say sweepingly similar things, however the specifics were very different and Obama at the end of his presidency endured similar concerns from liberal economists too.
I am a teacher and the state has raised my pay by 27% over the last 4 years. It has been really nice.
That isn't to say that it can't or shouldn't grow faster, but it is improving slowly.
Saying that Economy has issues is not the same as basically implying that the numbers that show that Economy is healthy aren't true
So, yes, it's fair to criticize how Economy is structured, but the signs that we are seeing right now do not look that worrying (at least yet). If anything they look even better than economists thought they would. That's a good thing (in short run).
As about long run? Well that's not something that this thread is about. We can have arguments but Economy in long run has very little to do with administrations unless something drastic happens (i.e. Obama's bail outs).
The Senate tax bill makes corporate cuts permanent, but household cuts temporary.
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/senate-tax-bill-expiring-cuts_us_5a0db416e4b0b37054f504b5
It is amazing with how well the economy is doing right now all the republicans want to talk about is immigration.
Thanks but I still don't understand HOW its possible to make the tax cuts permanently.
How is it legal to implement something, that no future government can change or alter in any way? Even the US constitution can be altered, but these tax cuts are going to stay as they are for time immemorial?
All it means is that there's no expiration date, a future Congress can change whatever they want
Aww yeah!! Going to jump on that 15$ minimum wage hike once it hits. I'll take any warehouse job for that type of money as a side gig.
Oh, so they aren't permanent. No expiration date is different from saying that the tax cuts are permanent, which suggests that they can't be changed.
Wages rise by 3.#%. That's the stat. That doesn't mean everyone got a 3% raise. You know that right?
Permanent vs. Sunset. Permanent means an act of Congress is required to change. Sun setting ends after X years.
The Corp tax cut was per meant. The individual stuff sunsets.
Yes I know that. please read the rest of my NUMEROUS comments in this thread for clarification.
Well first of all that's not what a "permanent tax cut" means. Permanent means it has no sunset, e.g. the tax cut doesn't have a preset window during which they exist, like 10 or 15 years. You see that for "temporary" tax credits for solar energy for instance; after 5 years of Congress doesn't extend the credit, solar energy loses the incentive.
Second of all, there's at least one permanent legal structure in the United States that can't be amended, and that's the bicameral Congress.