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Trisc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,485
This is a tough one, Halo 5 on the whole has JUST not moved the needle I think.

H5 MP is great but I still struggle to understand why its MP is not more popular, I don't have actual data but another FPS like Rainbox Six tracks much higher than H5 on NPDs and on Twitch as well. So, where are the gamers who rave about H5 MP other than on Halo Forums or ERA?
I'd say it's a two-front problem. The first is the incredibly lackluster campaign, which failed to capture longtime fans and get folks reinvested into the Halo series. Even as a megafan of the franchise, I lost a lot of faith in 343i to do the storyline justice after playing Halo 5.

The second is a marketing problem. Xbox just doesn't have the market dominance it had back in the 360 generation, and on top of that, Destiny has overtaken a lot of Halo fans due to being a more accessible game with more long-term rewards for time investment. Compared to Halo's simple "win or lose" criteria in arena multiplayer, Destiny's PvE and PvP directly tie into one another, allowing progress made in one mode to carry over to the other. I don't think (nor want) Halo to become Destiny, but it's easy to see why the wide-market appeal of that series would overtake Halo. Not to mention that when Halo 5 released, The Taken King had been out for just over a month and a half, which was right when Destiny was beginning to really hit it big.

I'm no analyst, so I can't say anything here with certainty, but there's no pretending that Halo is the juggernaut it used to be. The combined influence and accessibility of Call of Duty and Destiny both, along with the PS4 completely overtaking the XB1 shows a striking contrast between the platforms this generation compared to the last. Halo was never going to reach the pinnacle it hit with Halo 3 again after Modern Warfare took off in late 2007.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
How about AC Origins? I think it really brought a whole new group of gamers into the world of AC. Origins brought something bigger, RPG elements, HUGE Maps etc.
Origins was definitely something new, but if we're talking about a jump in quality, I think it's a smaller gap. I really like Origins, but I had no real problems with Syndicate. I think there's a bigger quality gap between the original AC (where I had to limit my time to about 2 or 3 hours per week at the weekend and completed it that way) and ACII (which I played on a near-daily basis for weeks after its release).

From a development perspective the amount of new stuff that Origins brought to the series was hugely impressive though, yes.
 

JusDoIt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,593
South Central Los Angeles
Street Fighter II. It's been said already, but it was probably the biggest single turnaround from a series, which went from being a boringly generic (though popular) fighting game to being a game so far ahead of its competition that it redefined the genre and remade it in its own image.

Revisionist history. The first Street Fighter was neither boring nor generic at the time. Make no mistake, SFI was a revolutionary title in and of itself, it just didn't have all of the elements that made SFII timeless. SFI was like The Simpsons sketches on the Tracy Ullman Show or the NBA before the 3-point line. Great, important, revolutionary, but missing some key ingredients.
 

BRSxIgnition

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,596
Persona 3.

It went from being a cult hit of a series to a niche hit of a series, and now its even bigger.
 

J_ToSaveTheDay

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
18,775
USA
FFXIV's rerelease was a huge moment for me. After being deeply disappointed with FFXIII, its sequels, and the initial release of FFXIV, A Realm Reborn worked for me on several levels: it was a game that my friends were interested in playing and so it was one of the games that brought us back together online to play together and it was a really strong social start to the game for us all; it was a return to an acceptable quality point for the FF series for me; it was my first MMORPG since WoW's Cataclysm expansion pack. It was a franchise (Final Fantasy) and genre (MMORPG) comeback for me, with the cherry on top that I was able to play the first couple of months after its launch with some of my best friends. I only played for about 3 months after and admittedly it did feel like it ran short on content in that amount of time for me, but I did return to it last summer just before Stormblood launched and had a great time playing with the then-GAF Free Company as well, which was one of the tightest-knit, helpful and social online communities I've ever been a part of that wasn't just comprised of my closest real-life friends. :) FFXIV didn't have the same impact on me as FFXI and WoW did as a whole (FFXI was my first-ever MMORPG and WoW revolutionized the genre, neither of which FFXIV can come close to replicating) but it's still an extremely good game with a strong ongoing storyline and good communities. I plan to make an eventual return but it likely won't be until the next major expansion.

Call of Duty 4. I understand the fatigue with the series and its vast influences across the industry that permeate through almost every FPS game now, but this game definitely popularized some design trends in the genre, established the modern warfare (literally the game's subtitle) setting in the FPS space, and frankly its legacy is still popular as hell today. I still like the COD series but I do understand people's weariness of it. I myself have trouble getting really excited for each annual release up until just before or just after it comes out myself, but every time I come back I more often than not have a pretty great time playing the game's multiplayer for a few weeks. I have only NOT enjoyed COD3 and COD Ghosts in the mainline series, the rest have been generally quite alright in my book, and IMO it really blew open and went mainstream with COD4, even though I'd been playing the series since COD's launch on PC, which in my personal life was right around the same time I got into Final Fantasy XI and the MMORPG genre in general, and sort of the upswing of my interest in WWII FPS games. COD4 came along and transitioned that previous WWII craze to a modern warfare craze and made everyone else in the FPS space want to try and borrow from some of its most appealing elements. I still remember what a positive shock COD4 felt like in 2007, after months of me personally doubting it could be any good due to my stubborn association of the COD brand with WWII. It was a damn fun game, and an industry legend IMO, even if its legacy has overstayed its welcome to many in 2018. Modern Warfare 2 would go on to continue the trend and bring and deliver on hype well beyond the scope of COD4's success, and despite being the favorite in the series to many, it all started with COD4.

God of War (2018). I loved God of War 1. I enjoyed God of War II as a gameplay continuation, but I felt a bit cheated by what I felt like was a great ending to the first game. I didn't feel completely exhausted on Kratos and his insane anger issues until God of War III previewed years and years later, with God of War II leaving an inevitable sequel pretty much certain -- the way his temper and violence was portrayed in God of War III didn't stick well with me, and by the time I finished the game, I knew I was feeling pretty done with the series. When God of War 2018 was first revealed several years ago, I just groaned and almost completely dismissed its merits without seeing a single shred of gameplay. That first trailer certainly did hint at a new vibe and tone but I just didn't think they could salvage Kratos as a character. Maybe 1 year after its initial unveiling, I remember seeing the first gameplay drop with the new camera perspective and immediately being intrigued, though my doubts about the game tied to Kratos as a character still lingered. It wasn't until maybe E3 2017 or so that it finally started to look like a game that appeared right up my alley -- everything from its more somber and emotional tone to the new gameplay finally clicked together to get me excited, and the final product managed to deliver, and it went well beyond my expectations when it came to characterizing Kratos and making him feel ... believable and likeable again. It's a hell of a feat, both from the perspective of salvaging the series from a very tired one-note ragefest to making Kratos feel worth investing some emotional attachment to again. It's also damn gorgeous, and I think the gameplay change up is fun, though perhaps not necessarily for the better -- I'm a bit neutral on the series' gameplay styles, and I don't think either one is better than the other -- they both excel at being fun, and that's fine. But I actually care about God of War again, and can't wait to see where this new branch of Kratos' personal life and legacy goes from here.
 
OP
OP
BladeRunner2099
Aug 26, 2018
1,793
FFXIV's rerelease was a huge moment for me. After being deeply disappointed with FFXIII, its sequels, and the initial release of FFXIV, A Realm Reborn worked for me on several levels: it was a game that my friends were interested in playing and so it was one of the games that brought us back together online to play together and it was a really strong social start to the game for us all; it was a return to an acceptable quality point for the FF series for me; it was my first MMORPG since WoW's Cataclysm expansion pack. It was a franchise (Final Fantasy) and genre (MMORPG) comeback for me, with the cherry on top that I was able to play the first couple of months after its launch with some of my best friends. I only played for about 3 months after and admittedly it did feel like it ran short on content in that amount of time for me, but I did return to it last summer just before Stormblood launched and had a great time playing with the then-GAF Free Company as well, which was one of the tightest-knit, helpful and social online communities I've ever been a part of that wasn't just comprised of my closest real-life friends. :) FFXIV didn't have the same impact on me as FFXI and WoW did as a whole (FFXI was my first-ever MMORPG and WoW revolutionized the genre, neither of which FFXIV can come close to replicating) but it's still an extremely good game with a strong ongoing storyline and good communities. I plan to make an eventual return but it likely won't be until the next major expansion.

Call of Duty 4. I understand the fatigue with the series and its vast influences across the industry that permeate through almost every FPS game now, but this game definitely popularized some design trends in the genre, established the modern warfare (literally the game's subtitle) setting in the FPS space, and frankly its legacy is still popular as hell today. I still like the COD series but I do understand people's weariness of it. I myself have trouble getting really excited for each annual release up until just before or just after it comes out myself, but every time I come back I more often than not have a pretty great time playing the game's multiplayer for a few weeks. I have only NOT enjoyed COD3 and COD Ghosts in the mainline series, the rest have been generally quite alright in my book, and IMO it really blew open and went mainstream with COD4, even though I'd been playing the series since COD's launch on PC, which in my personal life was right around the same time I got into Final Fantasy XI and the MMORPG genre in general, and sort of the upswing of my interest in WWII FPS games. COD4 came along and transitioned that previous WWII craze to a modern warfare craze and made everyone else in the FPS space want to try and borrow from some of its most appealing elements. I still remember what a positive shock COD4 felt like in 2007, after months of me personally doubting it could be any good due to my stubborn association of the COD brand with WWII. It was a damn fun game, and an industry legend IMO, even if its legacy has overstayed its welcome to many in 2018. Modern Warfare 2 would go on to continue the trend and bring and deliver on hype well beyond the scope of COD4's success, and despite being the favorite in the series to many, it all started with COD4.

God of War (2018). I loved God of War 1. I enjoyed God of War II as a gameplay continuation, but I felt a bit cheated by what I felt like was a great ending to the first game. I didn't feel completely exhausted on Kratos and his insane anger issues until God of War III previewed years and years later, with God of War II leaving an inevitable sequel pretty much certain -- the way his temper and violence was portrayed in God of War III didn't stick well with me, and by the time I finished the game, I knew I was feeling pretty done with the series. When God of War 2018 was first revealed several years ago, I just groaned and almost completely dismissed its merits without seeing a single shred of gameplay. That first trailer certainly did hint at a new vibe and tone but I just didn't think they could salvage Kratos as a character. Maybe 1 year after its initial unveiling, I remember seeing the first gameplay drop with the new camera perspective and immediately being intrigued, though my doubts about the game tied to Kratos as a character still lingered. It wasn't until maybe E3 2017 or so that it finally started to look like a game that appeared right up my alley -- everything from its more somber and emotional tone to the new gameplay finally clicked together to get me excited, and the final product managed to deliver, and it went well beyond my expectations when it came to characterizing Kratos and making him feel ... believable and likeable again. It's a hell of a feat, both from the perspective of salvaging the series from a very tired one-note ragefest to making Kratos feel worth investing some emotional attachment to again. It's also damn gorgeous, and I think the gameplay change up is fun, though perhaps not necessarily for the better -- I'm a bit neutral on the series' gameplay styles, and I don't think either one is better than the other -- they both excel at being fun, and that's fine. But I actually care about God of War again, and can't wait to see where this new branch of Kratos' personal life and legacy goes from here.

Wow, great post!
 

SpinlyLimbs

Banned
Feb 1, 2018
914
A Realm Reborn

Killer Instinct reboot: The series wasn't really even thought of outside of memes for over a decade and looking back pretty much nobody thought of it as a serious fighting game that I know of. KI reboot pretty much pulled off the impossible in my mind. They took some of the cheesiest character designs in all of fighting games and made them incredibly interesting and fun to fight as. They took a fighting system that was not particularly good and transformed it into one of the best systems out there. Most importantly, they took a series known for killer tunes and made an OST that's just as good if not better than the originals.

Uncharted 2
 

brambles13

Member
Oct 27, 2017
546
Sonic Mania - It was my personal GOTY last year and had universal acclaim unlike most recent Sonic titles. It is an amazing game that is every bit as good as the classics.

Persona 3 - It turned a series with interesting stories but awful gameplay into something entirely different. Tartarus is still extremely tedious but the lack of random encounters coupled with the greatly expanded story created an essentially new series.

Fire Emblem: Awakening - The supports in this game are of a completely different beast this game. Along with options to simplify the gameplay (easier difficulty options including no permadeath option) finally made the series palatable to the masses. The great character artwork didn't hurt either. I loved the GBA games but they are more of an acquired taste for most people I imagine. Both DS Fire Emblem games were remakes and looked like garbage which almost killed the series.

Donkey Kong Country Returns - Donkey Kong was relatively lost during the Gamecube/DS/GBA days pretty much only starring in spinoffs of varying quality like King of Swing, Jungle Climber, Donkey Konga, and Jungle Beat. This game finally returned DK back to his roots and the high sales reflected this is what most people wanted. It was an excellent game and even got a surprisingly good 3DS port.

Tales of Symphonia - This is the game that brought Tales of series popularity in the West and high critical acclaim. The game is excellent to this day and looks gorgeous to boot. I've never been much of a fan of the games that came before it.

Street Fighter II - This goes without saying, the first game played like ass while this one is a classic.

Soul Calibur - This game is a huge level of quality above Soul Blade. The first 3 Soul Calibur games are all classics to me.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,374
Edit: While I wasn't wrong, mye xaples weren't really in the scope of the OP. nevermind.
 
OP
OP
BladeRunner2099
Aug 26, 2018
1,793
A Realm Reborn

Killer Instinct reboot: The series wasn't really even thought of outside of memes for over a decade and looking back pretty much nobody thought of it as a serious fighting game that I know of. KI reboot pretty much pulled off the impossible in my mind. They took some of the cheesiest character designs in all of fighting games and made them incredibly interesting and fun to fight as. They took a fighting system that was not particularly good and transformed it into one of the best systems out there. Most importantly, they took a series known for killer tunes and made an OST that's just as good if not better than the originals.

Uncharted 2

I think UC2 really brought everyone's attention to Naughty Dog.

Sony realized they had something special with this Studio.
 

Treasure Silvergun

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 4, 2017
2,206
Dunno if I get the thread, but I'll try.

Resident Evil 4. The classic RE formula was stagnating. Nemesis was just more of the same with a little randomness and the titular enemy stalking the MC, while Code Veronica was the summa of everything wrong with the series. RE4 changed everything - gaming included.

GTA3. Took the series to the third dimension, popularized sandbox games, made GTA and Rockstar the behemots they are today, and it's undoubtedly one of the most influential games to come out after the year 2000.

Metal Gear Solid. Took a relatively unknown franchise, which had been greatly bastardized in its NES episodes, and made it one of the most important gaming franchises of the 2000s, and one of the crowning jewels of the original PlayStation.
 

Fatmanp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,438
I'd say it's a two-front problem. The first is the incredibly lackluster campaign, which failed to capture longtime fans and get folks reinvested into the Halo series. Even as a megafan of the franchise, I lost a lot of faith in 343i to do the storyline justice after playing Halo 5.

The second is a marketing problem. Xbox just doesn't have the market dominance it had back in the 360 generation, and on top of that, Destiny has overtaken a lot of Halo fans due to being a more accessible game with more long-term rewards for time investment. Compared to Halo's simple "win or lose" criteria in arena multiplayer, Destiny's PvE and PvP directly tie into one another, allowing progress made in one mode to carry over to the other. I don't think (nor want) Halo to become Destiny, but it's easy to see why the wide-market appeal of that series would overtake Halo. Not to mention that when Halo 5 released, The Taken King had been out for just over a month and a half, which was right when Destiny was beginning to really hit it big.

I'm no analyst, so I can't say anything here with certainty, but there's no pretending that Halo is the juggernaut it used to be. The combined influence and accessibility of Call of Duty and Destiny both, along with the PS4 completely overtaking the XB1 shows a striking contrast between the platforms this generation compared to the last. Halo was never going to reach the pinnacle it hit with Halo 3 again after Modern Warfare took off in late 2007.

Halo used to have mass appeal because it was unique. With Reach it started chasing trends and started to feel less and less like Halo. It would be a decent MP shooter if the Halo name was not attached but with the Halo name attached it does not feel right.
 
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BladeRunner2099
Aug 26, 2018
1,793
Halo used to have mass appeal because it was unique. With Reach it started chasing trends and started to feel less and less like Halo. It would be a decent MP shooter if the Halo name was not attached but with the Halo name attached it does not feel right.

I think being unique is overrated. Fortnite is not unique, COD in the last few years is not unique but they are still on top. I think the game needs to be stupidly fun first and foremost, create an engaging experience, pushing boundaries is next for me atleast.
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
TLOZ wasn't failing or lost in terms of mindshare right, so not sure about that.
botw really brought the series back into prominence. it was almost getting into nintendo's b-list but botw brought it back and made it a major, major IP for nintendo. plus it's now an evergreen title for nintendo (like mario kart, ac, etc) and has been selling for close to 20 months, which no previous zelda game in the past two decade did. it really changed what zelda is and what people expect from it in the future.
 

caylen

Publisher - Riot Games
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
139
santa monica
The three games I often refer to most when talking to other games industry peeps in regards to rare turnarounds for franchises/titles leading to outlier levels of macro success:

Final Fantasy XIV (what happened for this game should be a case study for all marketers & brand leaders IMO)
Hitman (2016)
Warframe (specifically, their development and publishing shifts that started about mid 2016)

Other titles that weren't as transformative to the business but I consider to be great for the genre/title: Resident Evil 7, Rock Band, XCom (2012)
 
OP
OP
BladeRunner2099
Aug 26, 2018
1,793
The three games I often refer to most when talking to other games industry peeps in regards to rare turnarounds for franchises/titles leading to outlier levels of macro success:

Final Fantasy XIV (what happened for this game should be a case study for all marketers & brand leaders IMO)
Hitman (2016)
Warframe (specifically, their development and publishing shifts that started about mid 2016)

Other titles that weren't as transformative to the business but I consider to be great for the genre/title: Resident Evil 7, Rock Band, XCom (2012)

Really underrated!

I feel a transformative game in a series should keep the series alive and well even if the next game flops. God of War sequel, RE2 Remake can afford to be good/average games and still sell well and be hyped for the next games thanks to what their predecessors did. Not sure about Hitman though.
 

BabyShams

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,835
Fire Emblem Awakening, without it the series was dead.

Metroid Prime, series was MIA from consoles since SNES. The FPS drastically changed how it played while still feeling like a Metroid game.

Tomb Raider, brought back a series well past its prime back into some of the most anticipated games.
 
May 9, 2018
240
It might be early to say, but thus far Soulcalibur VI is a blast to play and feels like a significant step forward from the last two disappointing entries.
 

unrealist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
757
I think BOTW not just turned around Zelda as a whole (not that the previous ones were bad), it breathed new life into them, turned Nintendo around by giving it an outstanding launch title to sell the Switch.
 

BrickArts295

GOTY Tracking Thread Master
Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,713
BOTW (The only Zelda I've beaten and I played most of them, that must mean they did something right this one for me to actually finish it)
God of War (2018) (Things were getting stale with Ascension, glad to see that RE4-like reboots can still work)
Far Cry 3 (It's pretty much the one that got it right and has been the blueprint for all of its successors)
 

VodkaFX

Member
May 31, 2018
929
FF 14, how they managed to completely overhaul everything and make it to what it is today is amazing.

Nier Automata, I am surprised that this was even greenlit in the first place back then, because the previous game (Nier Gestalt/Replicant) had a very niche audience. But I am very glad that they did since Automata is now doing pretty well in terms of sales, definitely looking forward to the next game in the series.

God of War (2018), it was a good change from the old formula which was getting a little stale, and the axe is simple SO satisfying to use.
 

Deleted member 2669

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,044
Nier: Automata is a successful Drakengard game. I didn't think that was possible.

And yet again with DMC5. The twists and turns DMC has taken are like nothing else. Defined a genre, then got a universally panned sequel, then redefined the genre, then underwent a paradigm shift that caused a fandom split, and then corrected course.
 
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May 1, 2018
563
Hm... let's see if I can think of three that haven't been said.

Mega Man Battle Network 2 - Arguments can also be made for 5 and 6. The first MMBN had the broad concepts developed but was almost like a beta game. The "Add" function wasn't fully thought-out, elemental armors were relatively unimpressive, the buster upgrades were... poorly paced, and there were generally polish issues that extended to challenge design. BN2 became a fully-fledged, great game, at least from what I hear since I didn't play it myself. Style system was cooler than armors, upgrades were better-paced, Add was radically changed.

Rune Factory 3
- Holy shit this game has no right to be as good as it is! Previous Rune Factory titles were... okay. They mostly survived on the charm of the core gameplay routine and by being functional, non-buggy games with nice music and art. But Rune Factory 3 redid everything... and yet, it's the same! I don't think a single aspect of the game was left untouched by major QoL changes, from skill progression to inventory management to backtracking. Dialogue was massively expanded, creating so much more immersion when talking to townsfolk every day. Rune Factory 4 is even better aside from one experimental change which was still half-successful.

Sly 2: Band of Thieves - Sly Cooper and the Thievius Raccoonus was mostly a linear 3D platformer with a reasonably distinct aesthetic. It had solid core gameplay but a bunch of minigame sections, some of which just weren't as good. The only real standout was Russia, a cinematic experience with the game's plot twist. But Sly 2? There's a lot to talk about what makes Sly 2 so great, much of it spoilery. But the most obvious is the marriage of style and gameplay, with hub worlds and mission layouts that make you feel like you're setting things up on your terms, and a narrative going towards a big heist planned from early on rather than just dealing with each individual obstacle as they block your path. As well as just... gameplay improvements in general, with more playable characters, fewer minigames, and no really unfun minigames.

Revisionist history. The first Street Fighter was neither boring nor generic at the time. Make no mistake, SFI was a revolutionary title in and of itself, it just didn't have all of the elements that made SFII timeless. Great, important, revolutionary, but missing some key ingredients.
Sure, but I still... wouldn't call SFI "great."

Even if you could pull of a hadouken, the fireball game was much worse in SFI.
 
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BladeRunner2099
Aug 26, 2018
1,793
FF 14, how they managed to completely overhaul everything and make it to what it is today is amazing.

Nier Automata, I am surprised that this was even greenlit in the first place back then, because the previous game (Nier Gestalt/Replicant) had a very niche audience. But I am very glad that they did since Automata is now doing pretty well in terms of sales, definitely looking forward to the next game in the series.

God of War (2018), it was a good change from the old formula which was getting a little stale, and the axe is simple SO satisfying to use.

Cannot understate how good Nier Automata is and how it brought Nier into mainstream.
 
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