The problem is that it's a subscription on iOS, rather than a one-off purchase.
Being less expensive than Photoshop doesn't change that being a bad deal.
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Thinking about selling my Wacom Cintiq 13HD and buying an iPad Pro. Am I crazy?
- Thread starter Robin
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Being less expensive than Photoshop doesn't change that being a bad deal.
Yeah, CSP being subscription based on iOS got a lot of criticism from the community, which led to them drastically lowering the price (albeit it's still subscription based, unfortunately).
Luckily the desktop version is still a one time purchase, so if you have a Surface or other two in ones, it still has incredible value.
well I am glad you made this post, I have always wanted one of those. Now maybe not, I was interested in a surface too maybe. I am just not sure whats the best out there. I want something with pressure sensitivity and lots of tools for editing. Anyways.... if you don't... uh... want it anymore... can...can I have it? lol
Good to hear about the battery of the ipad pen charging fast. I don't have one, just hearing from my fellow artist friends' anecdotes.
For me, because I use my cintiq (companion hybrid lol, sucks for me) for more than sketching (3d, zbrush sculpting, etc) I'm still stuck with wacom unfortunately. Maybe if Apple make the ipad able to connect to pc then I'll give it a consideration, because I like the feeling when I tried it last time.
Also if anything the desktop version of CSP is too cheap lol I want to give them more money for what I got :P
For me, because I use my cintiq (companion hybrid lol, sucks for me) for more than sketching (3d, zbrush sculpting, etc) I'm still stuck with wacom unfortunately. Maybe if Apple make the ipad able to connect to pc then I'll give it a consideration, because I like the feeling when I tried it last time.
Also if anything the desktop version of CSP is too cheap lol I want to give them more money for what I got :P
as someone who wanted a graphic tablet for years but recently bought a pro
i am in love
honestly if this existed when i was in high school my career would have been very different
still haven't used a proper wacom but not really bothered about it tbh. i have used a surface pro and honestly i don't feel it compares to the apple's pencil
anyone mention astropad yet? I'm able to use my iPad as a proper tablet for my macbook and photoshop, it's pretty dope
i am in love
honestly if this existed when i was in high school my career would have been very different
still haven't used a proper wacom but not really bothered about it tbh. i have used a surface pro and honestly i don't feel it compares to the apple's pencil
anyone mention astropad yet? I'm able to use my iPad as a proper tablet for my macbook and photoshop, it's pretty dope
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I mean... pencil does have pressure sensitivity. It's just the levels are not documented by apple anywhere.. as opposed to say Surface or Wacom. and obviously there is ridiculous quantity of tools for it.
I would definitely go into an apple store and try it out..
I suspect that the next Apple Pencil will have touted levels of pressure sensitivity. In my experience between the two (Wacom & Apple Pencil) they are comparable in pressure sensitivity, though the Wacom comes out on top, and also features a much smoother curve for sensitivity (so hitting different levels of pressure consistently is easier).
That said, I still feel like the iPad Pro + Apple Pencil for most people is a better bargain for people who want to create art, comparatively to the Cintique. Especially when you consider true portability. I would love a cintique, but I can't compromise my portability, it's just too convenient for me. Can't wait to add a 13" Pro to my workflow (after the event, obviously).
I had considered it once upon a time, but the $70/yr price tag kind of put me off of the idea. Is there a trial period? I'm not sure how much use I'd actually get out of it, considering I already have a good number of creative apps that are native to my iPad, and I don't think using the Apple Pencil would be ideal for, say, After Effects or something else.
There is a trial period, but I was able to buy a standalone version for about $40 CAD I'm unsure if that's still available atm. Using it was surprisingly intuitive with Photoshop, but admittedly like you mention the native iPad apps have more intuitive workflows, perform to the tablet's strengths much better, and quite frankly get the job done. Astropad is awesome for how well it works, but also unnecessary for a lot of things.
Does best buy have most of these? Its been a long time since I have been to an actual shop and an apple store would be hours away.
I don't know if you can preview the pencil at Best Buy. (I actually don't know)
Hoping to get an ipad pro soon, I usually work at a desk and whilst a laptop is serviceable if I need to travel it's not great for painting outdoors. I don't think it'll replace full-fat photoshop and my Intuos tablet as my main workflow but all I want it is for doing light studies. Looking forward to that apple event!
My local Best Buy has Apple Pencil demos with iPad Pros, so I'd assume most do. Just call in and see or stop by. They also have them at some call phone stores (my Sprint, for example, has Apple Pencil demos).
Worth checking out to get a feel for the pencil and the glass. It's tough at first to get used to drawing on the smooth glass, but like anything, a little practice quickly overcomes those foreign feelings.
Did you really read my post as saying Apple Pencil having total lack of palm rejection and pressure? Yeesh... Slow down and read more thoroughly next time.
BTW, Wacom made their default "Pro" pens fat because they were told by users that was preferred. You can buy "Classic" versions which are thinner. Also, I don't know what kind of material you prefer for tips but Wacom literally makes like 5 different material versions so you can choose to your liking.
Driver is fine on Windows side. It is hot mess on Mac side, but the blame is 50/50 with Apple on that one.
I think you need to do more research into what CSP can do if you keep insisting it has narrow usage scenarios and it's primarily for Manga. I linked Reuben Lara's youtube page earlier. Just watch his videos.
Even on iOS it's a great deal. It's a fantastic deal on Windows and Mac, but it's still a great deal on iOS for the simple fact that no other iOS app can give you the brush performance of the CSP. Adobe Sketch seems smooth until you realize that the max brush size is like 100 pixels and you have bare bones featureset. All other apps jjst can't compete with brush handling of CSP. For the longest time I though Apple Pencil sucked because I couldn't draw on Procreate and iPad Pro as I can with Windows 2 in 1. Well it turned out that the Apple Pencil was perfectly fine and it was Procreate's brush engine that was compromising my line quality.
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I'm pretty sure that person is talking about people who say they can't get used to working on Cintiqs and other Wacom tablets LOL.
But carry on.
Honestly, if the lack of laminated screen don't bother you and you can deal with the size, this is the best deal for artist iPads. You really can't tell the difference in usage other than the 120Hz thing that IMO does not affect your drawing or painting AT ALL. 2GB vs 4GB RAM hardly impacts in 99% of sketching/painting scenarios also.
Thanks. Assuming the upcoming iPad Pros don't sway me, I'll pick up a 9.7 iPad and Pencil then.
How do mobile apps deal with large canvas/brush situations? If I do some strokes with a large brush in photoshop, that's a couple hundred megabytes of RAM gone.
I tested the iPad 2018 with variety of canvas sizes vs 4GB iPad Pro in Procreate at the Apple store and I saw no limits in canvas size and layers and brushes I could encounter during the testing. I'm sure if you tried hard enough you can hit the limit of the 2GB RAM, but I think most users who don't intend to use the new Photoshop version on it will be fine.
The way Photoshop handles memory in Windows and MacOS isn't the most efficient IMO anyways. Hardly should be the litmus for RAM usage. Other than something even more horrific re RAM like Corel Painter, I think it's one of the worst in memory usage efficiency for raster art apps.
Sorry... I took:
... to mean just that, yeah. Wasn't specific. I guess you meant "not as good"?
Yeah the default nibs are the ones I was referring to. I know there are others but I never got around to those, as you pretty much had to buy them to try them out, see what worked.
Whatever, I don't care who's fault it is, but I am on Mac, so yeah.
Yes, I meant not as good. Palm rejection improved quite a bit since launch, and use of better apps like CSP over Procreate improved pressure handling, but it still doesn't match the pressure manipulation that Wacom's EMR pens allow. You can get really subtle with Wacom load sensors in pressure variations during a continuous stroke. Apple Pencil, AES and MPP pens fall short of that.
Wacom usually packs out variety of nibs in the pen holder in their pro line. Most people don't know they are there.
I don't remember exactly which version of OSX that Wacom just said fuck it and shit the bed with the drivers, but I remember a coworker that just got his 24HD he had ordered sitting on his desk as the biggest paperweight in the world because the IT guys couldn't get the driver working. I hooked up my Windows laptop to the 24HD and it worked fine. My coworker gave me death stares when I did that. lol
Now you're just making stuff up. Either you don't genuinely use Adobe Sketch, or something is genuinely wrong with your iPad.
I'd suggest you not spread misinformation if you genuinely want to be involved in these discussions and taken seriously. Sketch is literally a sketch app. That's what it was designed for. It is not an animation app. However, the brush engine is pound for pound every bit as good as CSP, but in my opinion, absolutely comes out on top when it comes to brush selection. Project Gemini only improves on all of these areas with a more robust feature set.
Not to mention animating in Photoshop > animating in CSP by miles, simply because the tools there are considerably more robust and the timeline has more flexibility.
Unless Sketch had a major revision in the last year, yeah I used it. It was way too simple. Brushes had really low max size, and you can't tweak shit on them other than size and opacity. Brush hardness? Fuck off. Brush image strike density? Fuck off. Brush dab angle? Fuck off. It was useless for anything serious. I wouldn't waste time with that app unless you are just diddling for fun.
Yea you haven't used it. Thanks for confirming that for us all.
What you did was use the base brushes that come with the app and then extrapolated that to everything, and even then you're still wrong. The pen and pencil brushes have a small size limit *because they are pen and pencil brushes*
I'm literally using it right now and the brush I'm using has a 512 pixel max. It's a stock brush.
For tweaks on stock brushes you have:
Blend Mode
Pressure Dynamics (on/off) with size & flow influence
Velocity Dynamics (on/ off) with size & flow influence.
Here's another brush from Adobe's mega pack:
Blend Mode
Opacity
Scatter
Tip Spacing
Tip Roundness
Tip Angle
The dynamic settings (which can be influenced by pressure, pen tilt, fade, or off) include these properties:
Size
Flow
Opacity
Scatter
Angle
Within those properties you can adjust the influence and the jitter, which can directly impact the way you perceive pressure sensitivity. Some brushes feature more dynamic settings (like angle, which can be set by pressure, pen tilt, direction, initial direction, or fade).
So yea, I'd say at this point you're essentially arguing in bad faith because you prefer CSP over anything from Adobe. Preference is fine, but making things up to prove a point that doesn't exist isn't really cool.
Sketch is lacking in features. Gemini (which I am currently beta testing for Adobe) is implementing a lot of those missing features. I can't comment on them because of NDA, but I can say that it is very robust and the brush engine is a dream.
Wait, you PAY for cool brushes? I think I liked it better when it was free lolz.
BTW, 512px max is nothing to brag about in 2018 ffs... And I hope it wasn't an airbrush cuz that's useless as an airbrush if the canvas is any decent size lol. Also, I don't like my pencils and pens to go BELOW 50px with decent minimum resolution canvas (say 5000x3000) so limiting the size of the pencils and pens to 100px is also useless IMO. I've used CSP chalk brush at 300px often. IIRC, all CSP brushes go up to 2000px.
At least you can tweak some of the brush settings so it's not as useless as free version of Sketchable. But those 6 parameters is pretty weak, ya know?
The brushes are included with my creative cloud subscription, there are hundreds of them. Many of them are dynamic, and in Gemini, those dynamic brushes do things like pick up surrounding colors, bleed, or smear.
I think I'm done with this conversation, it's clear you're not arguing in good faith and refuse to acknowledge your lack of information to have an informed position on any of this. Be a fan, by all means, but don't pretend to have a neutral stance here that is rooted in experience and information. If you aren't going to at least have the experience or information on hand to compare the available software solutions, don't Champion one as "the best".
I don't know if CSP is better than everything that's out there, but at least I can prove that it's better than Sketch. Even with limited parameters, Sketch's pencil brushes weren't impressing me other than the nice texture when use in tilt mode. So when you keep saying CSP is terrible value blah blah blah because Sketch is free or whatever, I have to roll my eyes.
Call me when Gemini is actually ready to use. Otherwise, I don't give rat's ass about limited apps like Sketch, which will require another app to help to get the whole job done. At least even with Procreate, you can make a case that you can get 100% of an illustration done, lol. And I hate Procreate!
But that's just it, you're in here being intentionally obtuse because YOU like CSP. You're providing nothing but your fanaticism. Period, full stop.
What I stated, multiple times throughout the thread, was that the $10 a month photoshop subscription is an objectively better value than CSP, and it is. You gain access to literally hundreds of brushes for use between Photoshop and Sketch (and soon with Gemini and full Photoshop on iPad). You gain 15,000 fonts (full licensed use) to use for profit. You are given access to a number of mobile tools that are invaluable to artists (including Brush and Capture, which are strong creative tools for quick work). On top of that, you get a free portfolio website and cloud storage, along with access to Lightroom (all of which works through cloud storage so you can move high quality raw photos from your mobile device to PC or PC to mobile device).
What I have been saying (and you have been ignoring) is that getting CSP on mobile is a rip off, comparatively, to everything else you'll get with the $10 photoshop subscription. Objectively, this is true. There is nothing that CSP has to offer that trumps what you get with the Adobe package here.
Unless you have something meaningful and honest to say, don't waste your time replying.
I haven't been ignoring anything. I acknowledged the fact that the iOS CSP is "fleecing" compared to Windows and MacOS (which btw is perfectly "mobile" on right devices). And I will also grant you that for those who need Photoshop anyways, it is a great value to pay $10 and get feature add ons for Sketch for free. But using that narrow parameter to say that CSP is a "bad" value for everyone is nonsense. CSP can do things on iOS that Sketch can't do and until iOS Photoshop launches, Photoshop can't either.
Even if the actual Photoshop was magically available for iOS today, I would still prefer to draw and sketch with CSP as many others do for the fact that the CSP brush engine gives you superior pen behaviors. So for those who prefer the brush feel of CSP, having Photoshop available at same sub price is moot since we still want to have CSP. And BTW, you can definitely replace Photoshop with CSP for raster workflow. You can't pick up a Photoshop project in the middle and finish it per se, due to not all of the ,PSD features being supported in CSP, but you can certainly start and finish illustration projects that gives you same end results as Photoshop.
Just to pop in here, as a long time CSP and Adobe user.
Sure, CSP on iOS is ... not at a price I'd prefer, but the toolset does exactly what I want it to, and with Frenden brushes, it's the best and most versatile art kit I own.
If you're doing single image pieces, or don't care much for brush-feel, I can see how Adobe's suite would be much better, and I know plenty of illustrators who feel that way.
Buuuut, the ability to do story files and the versatility of brushes and workflow are faaar better in CSP if you're doing sequential line-based art (comix).
Literally my only complaint with CSP on iOS other than the price is that I can't map the "Hide All Palettes" option to one of the shortcut keys.
Sure, CSP on iOS is ... not at a price I'd prefer, but the toolset does exactly what I want it to, and with Frenden brushes, it's the best and most versatile art kit I own.
If you're doing single image pieces, or don't care much for brush-feel, I can see how Adobe's suite would be much better, and I know plenty of illustrators who feel that way.
Buuuut, the ability to do story files and the versatility of brushes and workflow are faaar better in CSP if you're doing sequential line-based art (comix).
Literally my only complaint with CSP on iOS other than the price is that I can't map the "Hide All Palettes" option to one of the shortcut keys.
Since this was bumped, did you do it OP? Impression compared to the Wacom?
OP
OP
I bought it and to be honest... I love it! I'm learning procreate and getting used to drawing on it, but it's been a lot easier for me compared to the cintiq sofar.
First doodle I drew. Definitely still getting my sea legs but it'll be a fun process. I think I need to just force myself to dive into a big illustration to get a solid grasp, sofar I've just been drawing goofy little cartoons.