You said six days x 12 hrs. I said 12 hr days, no mention of six days a week. What are you talking about? This is the last reply to you I will make.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Kotaku's Jason Schreier: Inside Rockstar Games' Culture Of Crunch
- Thread starter Deleted member 10629
- Start date
You said six days x 12 hrs. I said 12 hr days, no mention of six days a week. What are you talking about? This is the last reply to you I will make.
"You just proved me wrong with a direct source so I'm going to act like a baby and not reply to you ever again".
It's not a cop out.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to play the game, buying the game, and yet continuing to call Rockstar out on their bullshit.
Whether you buy the game knowing what we know now is your choice to make. I just hope that everyone continues to shine light on this problem and call for more worker power and protections. Although a boycott could turn into a good fulcrum for bringing more attention to the problem.
i'd be hella pissed if i worked there did the crunch then the game got delayed. did more crunch later and it got delayed again. did more crunch later but this time they say the date can't change
more power in not buying a game? no, it has the same weight as not buying new Nike´s, not buying a Macbook or not buying a console. Somehow, everything is connected on this world and sure, it is awful that people working their asses off for a game but there are always two sides of a medal and you know, there is something true to the things i said. people are gaming on their PS4´s and writing on their smart devices which are constructed under even badder conditions and screaming for boycott for an entertainment product where people freely chose to work and get big bonus payments if it does well? (which is likely to be happening)
that being said, if people can´t emphasize with "situations in other countries" it is a sad fact on its own and maybe they should widen their horizon to conditions on the so called global south
Not when the only people it will impact are those who have done all this overtime. If the boycott is to show solidarity for the workers but the workers are saying please don't boycott, then I'm gonna listen to those staff.
Obviously Rockstar need pulling up on this and the best way is to 1: unionise. 2: keep pulling them on their shit and the industry as a whole until it listens. They're (R*) obsessed with their own image and PR, the more this keeps in the conversation the more they will probably look into making changes.
It's totally a cop out. It's 100% totally supporting the shitty practices of Rockstar, but he can feel like his conscience is clean because he admonished the practice on a public forum.
I explained why.
If you think it is, elaborate as to why instead of just asking "how is it not?"
Pretty much.
If you feel it's wrong to buy the game, then don't. That's your decision.
But this "you benefit from this injustice, therefore you can't speak out on it" tactic is a load of bullshit. Please continue to call game devs out for this. They don't want us talking about this, which is part of the reason Houser says he prefers gamers not really understand how games are made.
The more we educate ourselves about the environment these games were made in and decry said conditions, the more pressure gets put on these companies to change.
I mean, I don't feel like the burden is on me to explain why absolving yourself from supporting a company who's labor practices you are against enough to speak out on is a cop-out.
What pressure? Tweets and hashtags?
If you're gonna make it a point to continue to ask the question after someone's laid out their perspective, yeah, the burden is on you. Otherwise, why am I talking to you? Lol and that's not an insult. Just not sure what it is you want here.
And yes, that pressure. Which is the reason they've already made some change since the days of GTA IV and Red Dead. Enough change? Hell nah. But a step in the right direction. And no one is satisfied with it, which is why we're still talking about it. Which is why they've relaxed their social media practices with employees. Which is why they've started having conversations about needing to better lay out what they expect from employees during crunch. Which is why they're spending time they want to be using marketing their blockbuster game responding to the questions people are demanding they answer to.
No one's absolving Rockstar of anything here. They run a shitty ship, and they need to change, now, but acting like us pushing the conversation forward on social media is good for nothing is intellectually dishonest.
Maybe your fielding a lot of replies, but I never saw you lay out a perspective other than it's okay to buy and play it and complain on social media about thier labor - some people seem to think a boycott could hurt the employees more than it wouldn't (which doesn't sound like it's based in any proof, as this is not an unskilled labor pool in a sweathshop in Bangladesh). Is that your perspective?
Yes.
These are people who are wrongly not guaranteed compensation for their overtime. They depend on bonuses from the game selling well (which, it is going to; the few people who decide not to buy this game are not going to change that). In a world where this game is successfully boycotted, these employees would miss out on the bonuses they want to receive for the game doing well. They themselves have said as much, and it's happened at Rockstar before, I believe with Max Payne 3. That's not speculation on my part, it's just me pointing out a fact; these employees would be hurt in the short term by a large scale boycott of Red Dead Redemption 2. That doesn't make a boycott wrong or right or whatever. Do what you feel you must do!
But it is ok to buy the game. It is ok for your main contribution to this issue to be making sure everyone in the gaming industry knows this is an important topic to you. That is why we're having this convo in the first place.
I'm not working in video game development. But isn't that hard for people at higher position with all that experience and knowledge of efficiency to understand that people you remember their name with the badge they also have life. I have an employee, he have a cat at his place, must I lock him down. Go home. He comeback and finish a two week projects in 6 days. You want to make people productive while they are worried about their cat. Some managers will say time to grow up now, get a grip it's just a cat. Na, you don't know his coping mechanism. Some it's booze, drugs, etc...
Not everyone understand the dynamic of managing a team. Sure video game is not my field but that's how I build my teams and teams of managers. Employees are not lemons. A middle ground, I think is doable.
I think he can buy it without supporting it. Given his article about R*, I'd say he's doing anything other than supporting it.
I'm not really sure I get you. Are you saying that people who buy the product and support the company should *not* also push for better conditions for the workers at that company? Are you saying that you look into the labor conditions of every company from whom you purchase goods and make sure you fully support them before going forward with the purchase? What are you writing your posts on?
.
We can be excited for and support things while pushing for them to be better to the people behind them.
He's saying it makes your outrage over working practices ring hollow when you reward the intended results of said working practices.
I agree when it comes to "outrage." I still think it's possible to support a company and the people that work there by buying their product and also push for that company to make things better.
Don't bother, some people have their theories how to handle those situations. Just theories.
Not necessarily an age thing, but there are definitely creatives and people with a certain mindset for work who absolutely want to pour more time into their work than others. The problem is when that is allowed to define expectations of others who aren't necessarily on board with that life.
You shouldn't said SACRIFICE. A work place is never about sacrifice. I will give you a quick example, not video game related. He told me: I told you I don't like the sun. Asked HR to have some closed office without sun. I leave him at the office most of the time, just remind him all the time to follow the security protocol. He have ADHD, extremely smart. Job done in due time, he will be fired in most company. He prefer to crunch alone. I'm giving you guys how complex it is to manage teams, different backgroung, different skills. When you manage to have tha mix, you are good to go. The one with ADHD is well with the team.
It's one those tiny details that can make things different. Showing caring is part of your job as manager. Unless your work for those weird companies.
Last edited:
Man some the quotes in that article are just...wtf.
Just because you are working a ton of hours doesn't mean you are working hard. I'd honestly say that working 60 hours in a week is a guarantee that your work will suffer because you won't be as focused because you are so tied from working 10 hours a day.
Treating employees like this toxic. They created a toxic work environment because "passion" and thinking working 60 hour weeks = hard worker.
Its not one or the other. You are creating both. Yes it is art but its also a business and you need to treat it and your talent as such. Working 60 hours a week for months just because your working on something amazing is devaluing yourself as a worker as well as extremely unhealthy. Treat your work and yourself with the respect it deserves.
This is one of the more fucked up justifications for treated workers like shit I've seen in a while
Just because you are working a ton of hours doesn't mean you are working hard. I'd honestly say that working 60 hours in a week is a guarantee that your work will suffer because you won't be as focused because you are so tied from working 10 hours a day.
Treating employees like this toxic. They created a toxic work environment because "passion" and thinking working 60 hour weeks = hard worker.
Its not one or the other. You are creating both. Yes it is art but its also a business and you need to treat it and your talent as such. Working 60 hours a week for months just because your working on something amazing is devaluing yourself as a worker as well as extremely unhealthy. Treat your work and yourself with the respect it deserves.
This is one of the more fucked up justifications for treated workers like shit I've seen in a while
I wouldn't say it's a perception problem. I'm sure younger people also have plans themselves and ambitions. I would like to hope they at least want a good work life balance
Why should we believe this guy without providing any single proof ? I'm being serious... this thread is about the shitty working conditions in rockstar but this guy made it about himself
Welp, "fine" it is but if you have little kids you go to work when they are still sleeping and probably go back home when they are in bed again.
Just finished reading the article. What a sad state of affairs.
This has cemented my decision to not buy RDR2 new. I'll buy it second hand from a private player, not even a shop.
For those about to call me a hypocrite for not boycotting air because starving baby koala's need it. Yes. I'm a hypocrite. Thanks for asking.
This has cemented my decision to not buy RDR2 new. I'll buy it second hand from a private player, not even a shop.
For those about to call me a hypocrite for not boycotting air because starving baby koala's need it. Yes. I'm a hypocrite. Thanks for asking.
People are still stuck in the 2000's where they still complain about Kotaku?
Jesus Christ man. Give someone the benefit of the doubt - stop reaching
Why the fuck would he lie about it? And who the hell are you to pretend that you know he is lying?
I mean, other than your previous posts where you talk about Rockstar being your favorite company and this being a blind fanboyish defense of them.
Because this isn't a new thing? Rockstar has done this kind of garbage since San Andreas Hot Coffee mod.
This right here, makes me happy I live in a country where ones life is respected outside of the job.
https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...ndustry-a-better-place?utm_source=wptwitterus
Developers in this article chiming in on how to improve conditions. and re: boycott
Developers in this article chiming in on how to improve conditions. and re: boycott
User banned (3 days): hostility and antagonizing another member and backseat moderation over a series of posts
You are a liar and shame on you for wanting to use this for attention
I mean, phrasing like that is it's own kind of cop-out. Asking the abbot if you can meditate *while* you smoke is how you get the answer you want, because if you ask the abbot if you can smoke while you meditate, you give up the game and get the answer you don't want.
So yes, of course we should all fight for less suffering where we see it, but at some point having had you cake and eaten it is a kind of hypocrisy, because you really don't want to deprive yourself of something - which I understand. I'd just like to see some truthful accounting on the reason why it's fine.
I get it, and I still think it's a cop-out.
Is there proof that devs rely on bonuses to make ends meet? If that's really the case, how is that not another labor issue feeding right back into the crunch culture?
I guess I just want to hear people say: I care enough to complain on social media platforms that are free, convenient, and earn me prestige, but not enough to deprive myself of an enjoyable experience - because that is ok, and I suspect a bit more honest.
I just disagree that depriving yourself of the game is helping anyone. Not yourself and not those who you are supposedly fighting for.
Poor sales of a game is not going to lead to the situation of Rockstar's employees improving.
Poor sales of a game is not going to lead to the situation of Rockstar's employees improving.
Wait until later to know if Jason or some other site publish something about it to see if he is lying or not. As of now you should be at least giving him the benefit of the doubt instead of saying he is a liar.
What could he gain from lying?
It sounds like you didn't read Jason's article. Given this thread is about that, you should probably do so.
Depriving yourself of the game isn't helping anyone, nor is it the best way to force change. That's the honest truth, but you're certainly welcome to believe what you want.
Edit: nvm, I didn't notice it as an average, yeah that's too consistently high then.
Last edited:
If that was the case, Jason would had said something already but he hasn't... again my issue with this person is that he is distracting us from the real issue which is rockstar working conditions... if he wanted to talk about the alleged incident maybe make a separate thread
We can speak about both things here and the majority of the discussion is on the working condition. And Jason hasn't said he is lying about it.
And the User has said that he was afraid about making a thread, if it is the truth, and it that happened to you, wouldn't you be having some of that thoughts?
I'm not saying it is absolutely 100% true, but what could he gain from lying?
You'd be in that thread childishly calling him a liar too.
It's fucking weird that you are so defensive of a huge company that you are attacking another poster for sharing his experiences, as if you somehow have insider information that he is lying.
I did, and I think it's a cop-out, but if you honestly feel that way, I hope you can affect the change you want to and enjoy the game as well.