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Thinking about selling my Wacom Cintiq 13HD and buying an iPad Pro. Am I crazy?
- Thread starter Robin
- Start date
Believe what you like. Nothing touches the feel of the Pencil with the Pro's ProMotion. Not even close.
Not to mention the parallax.
Apple pencil is good. But the digitizer has to juggle touch and pen so it will never replicate the silkiness of pen only EMR
Lag? No. iPad apps simply dont give you the brush size and canvas size to compete apples to apples. Under something like CSP, you see no lag difference with Windows tablets, let alone powerful desktops with Cintiqs.
Parallax? Yes, but that's with any of the projected capacitive pens. Apple pencil is among the best of these types but you can compensate with EMR by drawing away from the edges of the screen
Im giving you logical reasons. You are one just making blanket statements.
Blanket facts. Lag and parallax are far superior which makes for a better feel.
There is no lag advantage for Apple pencil. Polling rate increase prevents vectoring and does not fight lag unless you have stupid low rate. Even the dlowest digitizer on market is over 120Hz. That's well beyond diminishing returns.
Parallax is for older Cintiqs with LCD and cover gap. Cintiq Pros have laminated screens so minimal parallax like iPad Pros and Surface Pros and 99% of Windows 2in1s. EMR does suffer from cursor drift on edges and holding the oen at severe angles but they largely mitigated that by moving the coil closer to the tip with Pro Pen 2.
But for many, more important is pressure responsiveness, which is where EMR is superior due to using separate digitizer for pen and touch. It elminates the micro delay in determining if pen or touch is in play. EMR simply never confuses the pen for touch.
This is very clear to see under same app like CSP. You can go up and down the pressure range in silky smooth fashion with EMR while with Apple pencil you can only modulate one direction in smooth fashion during shorter strokes.
I have three cintiqs(22hd, 21ux, companion) and I prefer the feel of the ipad to them all. Assuming you don't need a keyboard or power for crazy 3d programs the iPad is just a joy to draw on, makes me wish I was a 2d artist so I could just use this full time, especially when Photoshop launches next year. Procreate is awesome.
You're certainly not alone in this. Wacom's pen tech may be superior in some ways, but the value and user experience sucks.
If you are working at a higher brightness than that, you are not going to be making accurate color decisions.
Of course, whether that actually matters depends on what your work is.
This is something that many Wacom/Cintiq owners will say is not a problem once you're used to the device, but I hated it.
On the one hand, the software for computers is more powerful, but on the other, it tends to run pretty badly on mobile devices and is not optimized for a touch interface.
RAM is the biggest limitation of the iPad if you want to work with big files, but Adobe seem to have figured out a way to allow for unlimited layers in Photoshop for iOS, so if other developers (Procreate) can do the same that would eliminate the main drawback to the iPads.
The other main drawback is that many apps are moving towards a subscription model, like Clip Studio Paint. Its interface is horrendous on iOS (a clone of the desktop app) and they want $75/year for it? Not going to happen.
It's specified for 250 nits, and a calibrated display will be running at 100 nits in a dim environment, so that should not be an issue at all.
If you are working at a higher brightness than that, you are not going to be making accurate color decisions.
Of course, whether that actually matters depends on what your work is.
Since you don't seem to have that issue with the iPad Pro, it would seem that you're affected by parallax and/or the latency of the display.
This is something that many Wacom/Cintiq owners will say is not a problem once you're used to the device, but I hated it.
This is why I was looking into the MobileStudio Pro, but they haven't been keeping the hardware inside it up to date, the battery life is terrible, and it's still huge and cumbersome compared to an iPad.
On the one hand, the software for computers is more powerful, but on the other, it tends to run pretty badly on mobile devices and is not optimized for a touch interface.
RAM is the biggest limitation of the iPad if you want to work with big files, but Adobe seem to have figured out a way to allow for unlimited layers in Photoshop for iOS, so if other developers (Procreate) can do the same that would eliminate the main drawback to the iPads.
The other main drawback is that many apps are moving towards a subscription model, like Clip Studio Paint. Its interface is horrendous on iOS (a clone of the desktop app) and they want $75/year for it? Not going to happen.
I dunno. Their stuff is high quality. I've used the same tablet for over ten years and it's still as good as new. Can't think of any other piece of tech that I can say that about.
I'm still not sure how the iOS vs MacOS separation will be handled when mobile Macs move on to A series SoC in less than 2 years. Apple still seems unwavering on separation of the two OSes, keeping the pen and touch out of Mac OS core functionality.
Ideally, iPad Pros should get the RAM and storage of Macs to fully benefit pen using content creators. But Apple seems happy to keep the iPads well below the specs of Macs, and even when they end up sharing the processor, I don't know if iPad Pros will ever have the specs to do the Apple Pencil justice compared to the Macbook Pros and Windows 2 in 1s of the times.
I suppose all that could be mostly solved in a jiffy if Apple allows USB 3.1 bandwidth for whatever connector they end up using on the next iPad Pro. Then you can simply connect the iPad Pro to a Macbook Pro and use it as a Cintiq like device without the lag, refresh and compression compromise of something like Astropad.
Come on dude. Fleecing is fleecing and Wacom mastered it years ago. I called them out repeatedly and publicly so I went from Wacom demo artist/rep to persona non grata instantly for the trouble.
Yeah well with the cintiq I guess. But the tablets while a bit expensive have always felt reasonably priced to me. I think I paid $200 for my intuos in Japan in 2006. Still as good as new. Apple on the other hand...
You know, I was just about to buy a Wacom again after selling my Companion 2 which I really didn't like. I totally forgot about the iPad and I'll be waiting for the conference to buy the new Pro model probably. That 120hz screen is magical to draw on.
If the apple pen feels better to use I'd say switch over. The cintiq has long been mentioned by holier than thou digital artists and to see it replaced with something multifunctional is good
No you are right about the durability of the Wacom products. But no reason for them to be so expensive other than they have artists by the balls and want to fleece us for maximum amount. They still charge $1700 for 22HD ffs... That's crazy for such an old device with ancient specs.
Personally I can't deal with any of the Tablet pens from Apple or the one offered on the Surface. The texture just doesn't work for me. Even on my Cintiq I need the felt tips as all the other tips feel horrible to me.
As with anything art related, go with what you need.
As with anything art related, go with what you need.
I am mostly a hobbyist, but my art education had very little digital media. From that point of view I found the Ipadpro + pencil super easy to start working on. I got a Wacom a few years ago and it never stuck so I sold it. So from the point of view of someone who had little to no experience the Ipad was very user friendly and made sense to my dumb brain.
Last I looked, earlier this year when I was considering a tablet vs dedicated art pad for drawing, Wacom was still better for the reasons already being discussed here: tilt, pressure, calibration, prediction, art applications.
iPad, Samsung, Surface are all fine if you just want something to play with or even something inexpensive but the Wacoms are still undeniably superior drawing tech.
iPad, Samsung, Surface are all fine if you just want something to play with or even something inexpensive but the Wacoms are still undeniably superior drawing tech.
I wouldn't do it if I was you. I have a Macbook Pro (shitty old one), iMac for panting, and will be buying the new iPad Pro this year. I just need something mobile when I move around and to improve sketching/storyboard art, and the iPad is perfect for it. I want to eventually get a Cintiq 22HD in the future however.
There are professional illustrators who use Surface (probably the others as well). I follow a few on Instagram. One draws for DC.
Sure, I saw some videos of people doing great stuff with the tablets. Wacom was still better tech.
Depends on what you defined as better tech. Wacom tech falls really short based on a lot of reasons already discussed in this thread too: flexibility, comfort, mobility, screen, bezels/design, price, speed, and battery life. The iPad is like a Wacom tablet from seven years into the future.
And software is already a non-issue for a lot of users (CSP is literally identical to desktop version, and there are a ton of pro drawing programs like Procreate and Affinity already), and it will be an even smaller issue next year since the Photoshop crowd will have Photoshop.
Nope. Sorry dude. You can get a good, but not as good feeling, but Wacom is the best tech. It's the closest to natural drawing you can buy.
To those saying the pens battery life sucks, you're curiously omitting the exceptionally fast charging times.
You can plug the pencil into the iPad for 1-2 minutes and get somewhere around 2 hours of sketch time. A full charge takes me like 15-20 via the iPad (shorter via an outlet).
You aren't crazy. Get a new Pro + the new pencil. Both Photoshop and Project Gemini are coming to the iPad, you won't regret it.
You can plug the pencil into the iPad for 1-2 minutes and get somewhere around 2 hours of sketch time. A full charge takes me like 15-20 via the iPad (shorter via an outlet).
You aren't crazy. Get a new Pro + the new pencil. Both Photoshop and Project Gemini are coming to the iPad, you won't regret it.
That was my assumption when I started using an iPad with the Pencil. It turned out to be wrong. The Pencil is not just a gimmick or an afterthought, it's close enough in quality to Wacom digitizers that it made me reconsider going with Wacom in the future. The supposed superior drawing tech is not appreciable enough (imo) to warrant Wacom's premium prices.
But the again, I have been using a Companion 2 (which is a pretty abysmal device) for the last two years.
Considering picking up the new 2018 iPad Pro and Apple Pencil myself. Looking forward to the event on the 30th.
But Clip Studio Paint on iPad is freaking outrageously priced. If you want the ex version it's 72 dollars... per year. O.O Grante the pro version is probably fine for most people, but that's still 25 bucks a year. way more than their desktop version.
I guess how impressive the new hardware Apple is putting out is what will make or break it for me.
But Clip Studio Paint on iPad is freaking outrageously priced. If you want the ex version it's 72 dollars... per year. O.O Grante the pro version is probably fine for most people, but that's still 25 bucks a year. way more than their desktop version.
I guess how impressive the new hardware Apple is putting out is what will make or break it for me.
You have 3 Cintiqs but you are not a 2D artist? @_0
Hahah. Accumulated over time, just got the 22 and pretty much ready to sell the others. I practice 2d but it's not my main. Usually digital sculpting and texturing of which pen screens help immesurably
Clip Studio Paint will be essentially useless come 2019. For roughly the same price you can get Photoshop & Gemeni on your iPad Pro, and both will be a superior solution to Clip Studio Paint.
Just given the trajectory of the iPhone prices I expect this year's iPad to cost 100 dollars more than the respective models they replace.
LOL. You might have a beginning of an addiction. Also, you are a rare duck. Most of my 3D artist friends hate drawing on the screen, saying their hands get in the way.
You guys are making me want to buy an iPad Pro. I don't have money to spend on that right now lol.
I would wholeheartedly be on board with iPad Pro as my own main mobile art device thanks to Clip Studio Paint iOS, but I just can't deal with out of my hands file handling. Let me fucking handle the storage organization! Also I hate the high price, especially for the specs form RAM and storage. Also I gate carrying two devices: Laptop and a tablet. I'd rather carry one.
But more and more I'm realizing that those preferences are becoming the minority. Most ppl these days are using their phones as their main computing device so they are fine with the storage limitations and such.
I'm way more happy dealing with Windows 10 as a mobile art OS even with the concessions I have to make such as reliance on KB. But that's also the strength of Win 10 2 in 1. It's a proper laptop with that keyboard (especially as a dock and not an attachement) At the end of the day, $500 gets me a 8GB RAM/256SSD Windows 10 Core M5 tablet with Wacom EMR and keyboard on the used market. And I can use any app on Windows on it, including things like ZBrush. One device to solve all my mobile needs.
But I tend to push the iPad Pro to digital art newbs who ask me for advice. It's simply easier for me to say: "Get the iPad Pro and Apple Pencil. Make sure to use Clip Studio Paint if you do lineart but you can settle with Procreate if you paint more than sketch." Easy peasy. No need to hand hold them through Windows 2 in 1 decision process with all the different models out in the wild. iPad Pro made my life 1000% easier as a digital art teacher.
But more and more I'm realizing that those preferences are becoming the minority. Most ppl these days are using their phones as their main computing device so they are fine with the storage limitations and such.
I'm way more happy dealing with Windows 10 as a mobile art OS even with the concessions I have to make such as reliance on KB. But that's also the strength of Win 10 2 in 1. It's a proper laptop with that keyboard (especially as a dock and not an attachement) At the end of the day, $500 gets me a 8GB RAM/256SSD Windows 10 Core M5 tablet with Wacom EMR and keyboard on the used market. And I can use any app on Windows on it, including things like ZBrush. One device to solve all my mobile needs.
But I tend to push the iPad Pro to digital art newbs who ask me for advice. It's simply easier for me to say: "Get the iPad Pro and Apple Pencil. Make sure to use Clip Studio Paint if you do lineart but you can settle with Procreate if you paint more than sketch." Easy peasy. No need to hand hold them through Windows 2 in 1 decision process with all the different models out in the wild. iPad Pro made my life 1000% easier as a digital art teacher.
What are you using that can handle ZBrush, and how limited is it? Ive been reading this thread on the fence on buying one to practice drawing and such, which im a complete begginer, but cant really come to justify the price of these things if its only for light drawing.
However i wanted to get back to ZBrush, which i actually had a lot more practice, but stopped due to working in a different field and having less time available at home, and it would be awesome to have that on the go too. If i can do these thing with the bonus of an extra device to watch youtube or w/e i might pull the trigger.
Photoshop can't replace CSP. It can't even do animation, and CSP is specifically tailored to 2D artists with it's features. Photoshop is a good for all trades application, but CSP knows it's audience and develops for them.
When ppl say X feels better than Y, it's subjective and due to personal preference. So I have no problem saying that many prefer the feel of Apple Pencil to Wacom EMR. Perfectly legit and proper thing to say.
My problem is when those ppl extrapolate their experience to say Apple Pencil is the best active pen/stylus. That's objectively false. Apple Pencil is a fantastic and arguably the best implementation of dual role projected capacitive active pen. But it does give up some things to Wacom's EMR, such as subtle pressure modulation and palm rejection.
Go ahead and celebrate the Apple Pencil but don't make it out to be the best in everything simply because you happen to prefer it. It is very very good. Among the best. But it is far from the best in every parameter.
The number one problem I have with the iPad pen feel is that the screen is too slippery. And number two is iOS. I've been using Wacom tech since 1999.
I'm not good at all at ZBrush but my dual core M5 with 8GB of RAM machine dealt with models with less than say 5 million triangles perfectly fine. You would ideally start a sculpt on such machine and finish up with details on a more powerful one.