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DukeBlue

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,502
What happened is, Rockstar is constantly pushing the envelope when it comes to immersive 3D game design, and in order to continue to push that edge with each new hardware iteration, it takes more and more manpower, time, and money.

They could make more games if they lowered the fidelity of their game designs, but that's not going to happen because it is antithetical toward what they try to do.
I mean they were also pushing boundaries and inventing the open world genre back in the ps2 era and that didn't stop them from putting out a lot of other great content.

Its the gta online money that has them hooked. All of their manpower is going to that rather than making other games (aside from rdr2 of course)
 

JeffGubb

Giant Bomb
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
842
Investor want money. If you can make mountains of money with a single game, best for them. In this case GTA:O
It's best for the people making the game as well. Steady income from a service is way more reliable and predictable than working on a game for years that may or not meet expectations.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,091
Rockstar, perhaps even more than other devs, may be committed to a level of scope and fidelity that simply requires huge increases in dev time.
 

MBS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
733
Reason has been covered a million times already, games now require more money and resources to develop than ever.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,985
GTA Online and RDR2.

I'd imagine most of the GTAV team moved full-time over to RDR2, while an existing crew stayed back and made the company gazillionaires with GTA Online.
 

Wollan

Mostly Positive
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
Norway but living in France
They have always strived for excellence as a means of producing $$$ instead of trying to put out 'decent-enough' on a regular interval.
More so now with the unprecedented success of GTA5+Online and I'm suspecting GTA6 is an enormous effort on all fronts that will likely end up as a true landmark title.
 

DC5remy

Member
Jan 20, 2018
7,559
Denver co
Money changes everything. If you had 1 thing that made you millions would you still work on every little task at work? I bet no.
 

Okii

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,189
They found a way to sell people the same game 3 times and a successful online component with micro-transactions, that's what happened.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,376
This is pretty dumb when their games are fucking massive and put other open worlds to shame

in your opinion. which i don't share.

and i'm obviously not calling them lazy devs who crap a subpar game every five years and live with it - i said "why put in work" in the sense of making other games
 

Big G

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,604
The majority of Rockstar Studios now work on one game at a time. I don't think Rockstar proper is ever going to make anything else besides GTA and RDR for a really long time.

Why they haven't outsourced some of their less popular IP (Bully, Max Payne) and funded additional projects in the wake of GTAV's enormous success...that I do not know. Maybe that's something that's already in the works.
 

Lukemia SL

Member
Jan 30, 2018
9,384
I think the list is missing Midtown Madness by Rockstar San Diego. Also State of Emergency for PS2 published by Rockstar.

I've mentioned this who thing before in another thread about their output in other generations compared to now it's almost tragic.
 

huH1678

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,029
Bloat, lots of bloat, starting with GTAV, and all that shark cash. Make less games, but make more money, that is the new creed the biggest publishers go by now.
 

Snake Eater

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,385
why create new games when you're making hand over fist in GTA5 micro transactions?
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,036
Pennsylvania
This fucking gen with all it's GaaS , but also higher production costs/time happened.
Sometimes I'd wish we were stuck with PS3-graphics, but 60FPS/perfect image quality and the same AAA-output as last gen.
On the other side I highly enjoy visual feasts like Horizon and God of War, so it's not all bad.
It's really a double edge sword, games keeping increasing in fidelity but it's costing so much more. Even in the first HD transition a bunch of studios had to close or move to mobile because of the costs/size of production of some games.

The ones that were successful with moving to mobile and micro transactions set the precedent for all these other companies to adopt a similar model, because of the money they raked in when they were successful.
 

Sovan Jedi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
452
Southampton, UK
Making games with the kind of level of detail, graphic fidelity and scale expected takes so long in this generation.

People want bigger and better, and doing that takes time.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
Let's not kid ourselves, GTAV is a game from last gen ported to the new gen the next year. Their first game this gen is Red Dead 2.

About the question, it's because creating games of that size is much more demanding than before so they'll release less games in a big period of time. All of their studios are working in one game.

They merged all their studuos. They've went from having several to essentially having one with more people..rumour has it they've another 2-3 games in fevelodevel though.

Cyberpunk

With the last two years of Max Payne 3, and especially GTA V, they merged their studios so that 90%+ of their staff works on one game at a time.

Expectations have also gone through the roof, so they need a zillion people per game.

Any potential smaller projects now also have their staff working on things like GTA Online and Red Dead Online instead, so they couldn't even carve out room for those.

Ubisoft has to grow from 4000 to 14,000 staff to keep up their output, and they still went down in title count.

Isn't Rockstar studios in different parts of the world? How could they merge them? Or is it just in relation to development of the games?
 

Deleted member 6730

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,526
Easier to make games then coupled with their recent stuff being massively overscoped and succumbing to feature creep caused their games to take longer.
 

Nirolak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,660
Isn't Rockstar studios in different parts of the world? How could they merge them? Or is it just in relation to development of the games?
Each studio used to work on its own games, and now they all work on the same game a la Ubisoft.

Suddenly you go from 6-8 games in development at once to 1 in production and 1 in ideation.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Because they have been working on GTA online and the majority of the fanbase liÄ·es it and supports it.

And

Current gen development is harder and takes more time.
 

Deleted member 268

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,611
Gamers have no one to blame but themselves.

GTA Online generates so much profit, why would they even bother cranking out single player DLC, let alone new games.
 

Zelretch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
621
Until the early 2010s gaming was a hit hased business which is not something investors like because is pretty risky and the prefere safe bets. Luckly lor them with better online infrastructure came microtransactions which solved the equation via allowing the companies to monetize a big hit during a longer period of time with a bit of support generating regular income.

That led studios to concentrate on getting a sure bit hit since it is the better and safer strategy and therebefore production cost ballooned pretty hard, which made the idea of creating multiple titles costly and pointless.

The increase of production costs is a consequence that became secondary cause but it is not the root of the "problem"

In conclusion, fewer bigger is a safer strategy than multiple smaller thanks to microtransactions which has led to costs increasing a lot which in turn has made multiple smaller even harder.
 

MisterBear

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
656
Cause you guys aren't happy when we just throw a texture on a box. You guys want like the whole live story of that box and the subtle complexities of its weight dynamics. I'm working as fast as I can!! (as I post on Resetera)
 
Jul 13, 2018
469
Each studio used to work on its own games, and now they all work on the same game a la Ubisoft.

Suddenly you go from 6-8 games in development at once to 1 in production and 1 in ideation.
Does Rockstar handle the majority of development in house a la Ubisoft, as opposed to outsourcing heavily like other AAA devs? Thanks.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
What happened is, Rockstar is constantly pushing the envelope when it comes to immersive 3D game design, and in order to continue to push that edge with each new hardware iteration, it takes more and more manpower, time, and money.

They could make more games if they lowered the fidelity of their game designs, but that's not going to happen because it is antithetical toward what they try to do.
This really isn't true. They could make more games if they hired competent project managers. One huge mistake a lot of people make is thinking that well made games take a long time to make. You can make any game in 2-3 years if you have a smooth development pipeline. That's how Ubisoft can begin development on AC: Odyssey in late 2015 and release a masterpiece of open world RPG design exactly 36 months later. There's this myth, for example, that Half-Life 2 took 6 years to make due to Valve's pursuit of perfection or some romantic nonsense like that. In reality it took six years to make because they spend 4 or so years or that flailing around like headless chickens, with a bunch of disconnected ideas in search of agame. Rockstar's development process is woefully inefficient. They have alarming scoping problems. And look at where it got them. Max Payne 3 is a cool game, but it's a disjointed mess glued together with prerendered cutscenes. GTA V was in development for five years (more if you count the enhanced PS4/XBO/PC version) and has an open world largely devoid of meaningful content, with simplistic GTA 3-style missions pasted on top of it, paired with a woefully janky MMO-lite GTA Online. Watch_Dogs 2 was released in 2016, and it trounced GTA V's world design. Where GTA V is an empty shell, WD2 is a living breathing world full of interesting content to experience. And it was made in 2-3 years. Because it was a well managed project. A game made by people who didn't spend their time pretending to work for hours on end in order to satisfy Rockstar's insane corporate culture.
 

PS9

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,066
Red Dead Redemption 2 was delayed internally before it was announced and delayed twice since it was announced. Every single Rockstar studio in the world is making this game and they can't get it out in close to a whole generation. Next gen is gonna be rough for a lot of studios.