I always had the impression most civilisations with access to time travel have heard of the Time Lords in the same way most people today have heard of the Wright Brothers.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Doctor Who Series 11 |OT|- She’s Here, and It’s About Time
- Thread starter Dwebble
- Start date
Oh man that episode was everything I wanted from new Doctor Who. Loved how tense it was in an unconventional way: hoping that there are no seats left on that bus! Actually got pretty emotional at the climactic bus scene.
Great handling of a serious topic, with a great message. Especially relevant in today's climate but it still carried a light of positivity about the future and I hope it spreads a positive message to all the kids that watch it.
Great handling of a serious topic, with a great message. Especially relevant in today's climate but it still carried a light of positivity about the future and I hope it spreads a positive message to all the kids that watch it.
Also, I should point out that the new intro also is great and kind of seems to reflect on what Chibnall is going for - I think it deliberately channels the pre-revival era, especially with the audio, while also updating the visuals.
I made the mistake of reading that review (which I really disagree with) and the comments were the absolute worst.
The 11th Doctor wiped all trace of himself from history but I can't remember if that's been retconned since.
Well, people are aware of the Time War - we have multiple characters over the years offer the Doctor their consolation/sympathy when they hear they're Gallifreyan. Higher powers are obviously aware of the Time Lords, it's just races that don't yet have that sort of tech that aren't. Jack Harkness instantly knows what a TARDIS is, for instance - but he's a Time Agent, from a period in history when Time Travel is no longer a secret.
It's all complicated, anyway, because we don't know where exactly that guy is in his personal timeline. Being a time traveler, he could be from some future time when the Time Lords are fully established again, or from before the war. The point is, there's more than one TARDIS out there, and there always is... but also the Gallifreyan policy of not meddling means that generally you'd imagine TARDISes are rare sights out in the universe. The Doctor is the exception rather than the rule in that sense.
The thing that surprises me more is that people in Stormcage would see a blue police box and not immediately know what it is - not that it's a TARDIS based off the energy readings, but that it is the TARDIS, belonging to him (or her). Even if Kraskow's time there doesn't overlap with River's, you'd think a prison full of time traveling criminals would know about the Doctor. Yes, the 11th Doctor made some moves to reduce his footprint across the universe, but he's still known in the right circles, so you'd think they'd know.
I'm glad they're moving away from the Doctor being the most important person in the universe, known far and wide. It makes the infinity of space and time feel quite small.
Yeah, 13 really does have that 'teacherly' quality, doesn't she? It's like, while 12 - and a lot of the previous Doctors - always had to be the smartest man in the room, 13 likes to lead her 'students' into coming up with the answers themselves.
I mean, 12 often came across like a teacher, too - heck, he was one in that final season - but the kind who just stands at the front and tells you what they want you to know, not the kind who helps you figure it out for yourself.
Yeah, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Like I said, we know Krasko's time there doesn't overlap with River's, but my point is you'd think of all people time traveling criminals would be aware of the Doctor, that's all. The suggestion has always been in various extended media that were it not for his missing memories (which was never resolved) Jack would've known the Doctor as soon as he saw the TARDIS thanks to his Time Agent training, too. That's also sorta backed up by the time/space police people in Let's Kill Hitler immediately knowng who he (and by extension, River) is, too.
I noticed that she asked Ryan to rack his brains for information about acetylene, while any previous incarnation would have just said "time to use that self-igniting cigar, I told you I was brilliant, didn't I?" Similarly, Ten all but tells Agatha Christie and William Shakespeare how wonderful it is to meet a fellow genius.
It's a larger team, there's a lot of team building going on. She's doing this on purpose.
As I've said in my post on the last page, I very much appreciate that the companions are given stuff to do, and assist the Doctor in figuring things out. Moffat's companions in particular, and even RTD's although to a lesser extent but it was still there, often felt like nothing but window dressing, existing solely to applaud the Doctor and how smart and powerful he is. The new trio of companions however, are given agency and abilities that can actually help the Doctor.
I noticed that too. It's the same kind of appeal that you have with mystery stories: You as the reader/viewer are given little details and bits of information, and a chance to figure it out yourself, before the characters present the solution to you, perhaps even a solution you hadn't even considered. It's great.
Tom Shaw didn't seem to know who she was either. Maybe they're making that a thing this season - trying to avoid the big 'I am the doctor' grand speeches kind of thing? More humble.
God, I hope so. The deification of the Doctor in Nu Who has always been a big gripe of mine.
Mine too. It's lead to a lot of comments about how 13 is "timid", "unsure of herself" and "weak" but I don't think it's like that at all. It's like Doctor has grown more and more arrogant during new who, culminating in 12's complete lack of empathy. Something he spent his run relearning but struggled with nonetheless. I feel like 13 is a product of that process. It's pretty jarring when compared to her predecessors but incredibly refreshing in my opinion.
Good episode and probably the best of the three so far, but man oh man was that song choice at the end bad. I felt the music direction in general was pretty bad, constantly undermining the quiet drama of moments with LOUD TRUMPETS. I also feel like this episode, more so than the previous two, suffered from a lot of redundant dialogue.
Graham's Steve Jobs bit made me laugh though.
Graham's Steve Jobs bit made me laugh though.
I generally agree the deification of the Doctor has been silly, but a random alien species the Doctor hasn't encountered before rings differently to a time traveler in a prison she's had significant encounters with, that's all. It's not the idea that everyone should know the Doctor, but more just of all people, you'd expect someone in Stormcage to be the type to know the legend.
Considering how poor their security is, I feel that Stormcage's reputation is probably somewhat overstated.
I think it's more that River was there so often and probably talked about the Doctor all the time, so their legend would've pretty naturally spread around the prison.
Not to mention it's very unlikely that River is the only criminal who was put there because of the Doctor to begin with.
Eh, maybe TARDIS(es) have become more commonplace - throughout time - since Gallifrey popped back up again, so the immediate connection 'TARDIS=Doctor' is no longer so obvious. I mean, I get that hers is still the only one that looks like a police box, but the racist dickhead from the future didn't base his 'TARDIS' assertion on what it looked like--he was just going by what his scanner told him.
I'd actually kinda like that.
I didn't like the song because the episode stood on its own. It wasn't a subtle episode, but good grief the song at the end just was like turning it up to 14. It wasn't necessary. Hell, silence might have done better in that scene.
Last edited:
I didn't get to watch until last night. Really enjoyed it. After "The Ghost Monument" I was afraid that I wasn't goign to like this season much, but I really like this one. Finally got more of Yaz and Ryan, and Graham continues to be great. And that climax, where they can't help Rosa and Graham has to be the guy she needs to move for was a gut punch.
Not without issues, such as the lame villain, but overall a huge step up from last week.
Not without issues, such as the lame villain, but overall a huge step up from last week.
ARE the Time Lords back? I was unclear, because it seemed like they were after Hell Bent/Heaven Sent, but Jodie makes a remark in her first episode that her family is all gone. So I'm unclear what the current status of the Time Lords is.
Her family have been gone since 60s Dr Who - it's brought up in Tomb of the Cybermen.
Well, the Doctor's family is all gone, so far as we know--no Susan, no parents, no River, etcetera. But I don't think the Doctor's 'family' and the Time Lords as a whole are synonymous with one-another.
been enjoying Jodie so far. Companions are fine except they need to have Ryan stop being such a prick to Graham pretty soon. Yas is cute and is fun with everyone
The only family member Doctor Who has had on screen is her granddaughter Susan, the eponymous Unearthly Child of the very first episode in 1963. She visited Gallifrey in Series 9 (broadcast date 2015), but presumably she has no surviving immediate family there.
It's a time travel series, though, and the rules of time travel within the series have always been subject to rewriting according to the needs of the drama.
I'm almost 100% certain that this will happen. If Moffat were still in charge, it'd be right before one of them died. But I don't necessarily see the show going that way now. (And if it did, it wouldn't be this series.)
fixed. boy that escalated fast.
looking forward to the next episode since people in my office are so scared of a few tiny spiders at the moment, while reminding me my home country is notorious for killer creatures.
...I'm going to be honest here, that episode was pretty bad. Don't get me wrong, I like the message and appreciate what was being said, but the way it was being done was really hokey and ham-fisted. Doctor Who has tackled racism better and more subtly before, this just felt like getting nailed with a sledgehammer way too many times. Also the villain made no sense, and the Doctor and friends suddenly being a part of history (nobody even brought up their clothing) felt really contrived.
Hahaha, you're right about the fix.
I, too, am looking forward to being scared by spiders. At least it's not centipedes...
Every Doctor? The majority of the classics wouldn't have. 13 seems more akin to a Classic Who Doctor as each episode goes on and I love it
Last edited:
Strictly speaking there's the woman in The End Of Time whose identity isn't explicitly established but has been hypothesised as a relation of The Doctor in some form.
Yeah, no. I give you it was more subtle but it didn't handle it better in any way. Good story, but this is better.
I'd forgotten her. She was played by the utterly splendid Claire Bloom. The part was widely supposed to represent Doctor Who's mother.
Good episode, and Rosa was beautifully cast. I love Jodie, and I love Graham. I do hate the music cue in the final scenes - it undermines the power of Rosa's actions by making it feel like a trailer. I'd have preferred silence.
The last shot was gilding the lily a bit, as well, but heigh-ho.
The last shot was gilding the lily a bit, as well, but heigh-ho.
OP
OP
I like Remembrance of the Daleks an awful lot, but its treatment of racism amounts to a Dalek metaphor and Ace looking upset at a sign saying "no coloureds". In no way, shape or form is it a meaningful look at racism.
I can't imagine any Doctor being in a similar situation, where they basically stood back and allowed injustice to take place, apart from where interference would cause something to change. but even then, I still don't remember any Doctor standing idly by while some form of violence was taking. I may be mistaken, but I don't remember.
12 in s8. Into the Dalek and Dark Water immediately spring to mind.
I think yeah, the slap, perhaps, another Doctor might have been confrontational. But not necessarily. The Doctor punched a racist last season, but that was a situation with much lower stakes, so considering the level of violence that can erupt out of escalating this situation, it was the right call.
As for the rest of the episode, pretty much how any other incarnation would've handled it.
No reason she should be? You can be guaranteed being a woman is going to play into the time periods they visit this season.
I think the episode would have been whack had Jodie's Doctor started screaming and shouting like a previous Doctor might have done. It was a down-to-earth episode where the main characters responded realistically to the risk presented by the everyday dangers that they faced. In the RTD and Moffat eras, the 20th Century racists would have been written as ultimately fangless, allowing the Doctor to rage at them with impunity, without consequences. The Thirteenth Doctor occupies a world where such characters might seriously hurt or kill her friends.
But why does the Doctor being a woman mean that she can't start her ground or challenge injustice?
It's nowhere near as deep as this ep goes, but it was more then you say - I think Ace's love interest turned out to be a racist too and had a little racist group.
Not so much about racism, but there is also a scene where the guy at the cafe talked about his great-grandfather being enslaved when the Doctor muses about changes in time. It's probably my fave scene ever in DW.
Last edited:
What did the Doctor stand back and allow in those episodes?
Into the Dalek, he confronted Rusty and challenged Rusty's beliefs the whole episode and even his own.
Dark Water, the Master/Missy has always been the exception with the Doctor, but he didn't just stand by, and was even prepared to kill Missy.
Please don't take me the wrong way, I'm not trying to argue with you or make you see things my way, it's just my personal opinion, and your opinion may be the correct one!