I don't get why this was pettiness. Is this inherently petty or am I missing something?
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CDP tweets trash tweet about trans people AGAIN this time from GOG (Read OP)
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Yeah this is exactly what I'm talking about. People just use buzzwords, insults, and proudly proclaim there is no discussion to be had. Every single time, doesnt matter what we are talking about. It's very strange that people dont see the problem with how this forum handles these type of topics.
And hell, I mostly agree with you. Gamergate was/is a trash movement. But there is a tad more nuance then people are willing to admit. Or at least not everyone who fell for that nonsense hates women, gays, and minorities. There is some discussion to be had.
If the topic is "Is Gamergate a hate & harassment movement aimed at any vocal women, gay people, transgender people, black & other minorities and their supporters who are striving for progressive values and better & more diverse representation in entertainment?", then there is no discussion to be had. It was a hate & harassment movement from the very start.
Just because there were some gullible dumbdumbs who bought into the ethics in journalism angle at first doesn't mean the ideological background was muddled. It started with a woman falsely accused of having had sex for positive promotion of her game and how evil that bijaaatch was for doing so. And the movement didn't back off even when it turns out the man lied/twisted the truth (funnily enough none of the usual "we need to wait for more information" and "we can't/shouldn't believe the words of a single person so readily to judge a person" people who infest every #metoo topic were nowhere to be found before the story was proven to be false)
What GamerGate stood for is pretty clear. The movement claimed to be about "ethics in game journalism" but targeted mostly indie developers, bloggers and independent critics who just so happen to be mostly women. How many times has gamespot and ign caught changing coverage because of pressure from publishers? And those times didn't trigger a wide spread movement?
User Banned (1 Week) - Prolonged thread derail, attacking other members after admitting to not reading the OP
You were very petty yes, but I imagine justifiably in many peoples eyes
As previously said, its clear I skipped over the ma
latter part of the tweet, which shows the obvious intent in their words.
With that being said, the way Era handles simple things like this is similar to a witch hunt
I don't have a discussion, as someone who has been criticised for the colour of his skin throughout my life. I can fully relate to how people would and should be angry. Of course you shouldn't have bigots shitting up the thread, but at the same time shutting down everyone who doesn't have the same strong opinion as you doesn't give them a chance to discuss why they are indifferent. Allowing that discussion to take place may allow them to be enlightened to the cause. All that has happened is that discussion is now unavailable to them, and they are of the same opinion as when they were before getting banned.
I think we need to stop giving CDPR the benefit of the doubt. I find it hard to believe that it's all the PR company's fault. CDPR has to be okay with this since they've allowed the to go on for 4 or so months at this point. We've had at least 3 (that I'm aware of) blatant alt-right tweets so far.
Unless they fire the PR company and make a public apology, I'd recommend skipping out on all their future games, including Cyberpunk.
Unless they fire the PR company and make a public apology, I'd recommend skipping out on all their future games, including Cyberpunk.
Absolutely bad and out of touch tweet there. They need to issue an apology to the community and take internal measures to understand and change it's PR.
That said, let's be real here and forget this CDPR's games ban on this board. We sure have some kind of influence in the industry, but that's it.
We should argue, understand what can be done to gamers have a better mentality, not bans. We can't pretend that their games won't be discussed here in a way or another.
That said, let's be real here and forget this CDPR's games ban on this board. We sure have some kind of influence in the industry, but that's it.
We should argue, understand what can be done to gamers have a better mentality, not bans. We can't pretend that their games won't be discussed here in a way or another.
I want to discuss how we can make it clear to CDPR that this is not acceptable.
I'm backuping up my GOG library and will stop using the service until there's a visible change on their end.
Even if everyone in this thread did agree that transphobia is bad and all the posts were in agreement, there is still a discussion to be had. For example: why are CDPR not doing anything about these tweets, what can we do as a community to draw attention to the fact CDPR haven't done anything about these tweets, as well as educating people on CDPR's connection to GOG and to answer those with genuine questions.
Stop being obtuse and framing ResetERA as something it isn't.
Do you actually think anyone who feels the need to proclaim their indifference has any intention of having a reasonable discussion on the topic? Why is this a 'position' that needs to be elevated and discussed in the first place?
Not every shitty personal view is something that needs to be given a platform on here.
How is it petty when you yourself admit you didn't seek the full context? You admit you skipped over the context, but apparently it's petty to point out that it was right under your nose?
Don't call something a witch hunt. That's a horrible term derived from an awful practice used to malign women for speaking up about problems they have. Calling the dismissal of transphobic concerns a witch hunt is an extreme disgrace to the real women who were hunted historically. Worse, it's blatant dog whistling.
I used to poke around 8chan to see what Gamergate was about. There were near constant barrage of edits from white supremacist political cartoons A. Wyatt Mann (read that aloud), like Anita Sarkeesian morphed into the hand-wringing Jew. There was also a brief attempt to make a Gamergate visual novel in the lines of Katawa Shoujo, which had no less than three Nazi characters, one of which had "the one-man Auschwitz" as a nickname. I still keep a bunch of the images lying around on my computer from there, like the one where they explain that actually if you want the world to become less liberal you should not be focusing on the Jews, you should be focusing on keeping women from voting.
I do agree that not everyone who fell into it was a bigot, but those were useful idiots who were generally just upset that gaming journalists had given a game they liked a bad score. Their complaints were insubstantial to begin with and they had no idea what they were actually defending. If anyone actually got any deeper in the movement than just insisting it was actually something else on Twitter while not actually having looked into what it is, then it's basically impossible to be involved and not be a bigot. If you got anywhere near the areas that Gamergaters were congregating then there was no way to avoid seeing what the movement was about at its root.
I'M SO INDIFFERENT TO TRANSPHOBIA
CAN"T YOU TELL HOW INDIFFERENT I AM
HEY EVERYONE SHOULD STOP TAKING TRANSPOHBIA SO SERIOUSLY
BE LIKE ME, I DON"T CARE
THAT'S WHY I KEEP POSTING HERE.
CAN"T YOU TELL HOW INDIFFERENT I AM
HEY EVERYONE SHOULD STOP TAKING TRANSPOHBIA SO SERIOUSLY
BE LIKE ME, I DON"T CARE
THAT'S WHY I KEEP POSTING HERE.
No lol, I'll get banned.
Anyways, I dont really want to talk about gamergate. Like I said, terrible movement, started bad, ended bad. Accomplished nothing good that i can think of.
That said, I can see how someone who wasnt on resetera (neogaf) really had a different perspective on it. I wouldnt really make sweeping generalizations about CDPR and the country of Poland for tweeting it.
The tweet seemed fine in itself to me without any context but given the response, i suppose the hashtag is used to protest the Trump new stupid idea of removing trans persons rights and recognition. Wich is not fine to use for what they used it.
So... Yeah... There's clearly some cleaning to do on the PR side at CDPR...
So... Yeah... There's clearly some cleaning to do on the PR side at CDPR...
...why are we taking a thread about bigotry and trying to put some shitty opinion about how someone doesn't care about bigotry on a pedestal? The entire point of these people coming in here saying they are indifferent is because they don't want anyone else talking about this. That's not a discussion. It's not even worth pretending that such an opinion matters.
You're making the assumption and the decision for them that they don't want to have that discussion.
Had I skipped over it out of spite you may have a point, but your initial post and follow up were very very petty, I don't think you can defend that at all.
I'm quite sure many would read the entire thing and still seek some clarity from those more familiar with the subject, but to then be met with vitriol well... It's not helpful.
Lastly my use of the word Witch Hunt, well on that regard I have no idea what to say. I'm sorry if the phrase has offensive connotation I'm not aware of.
It wasn't used by me to dismiss transphobic concerned, it's being used by me to highlight the behaviour of many Era members in topics like this regarding political and social issues whenever someone unfamiliar with the issue comments something they find doesn't align with how they feel.
I'm quite sure many would read the entire thing and still seek some clarity from those more familiar with the subject, but to then be met with vitriol well... It's not helpful.
Lastly my use of the word Witch Hunt, well on that regard I have no idea what to say. I'm sorry if the phrase has offensive connotation I'm not aware of.
It wasn't used by me to dismiss transphobic concerned, it's being used by me to highlight the behaviour of many Era members in topics like this regarding political and social issues whenever someone unfamiliar with the issue comments something they find doesn't align with how they feel.
so, what's a good reason to be indifferent about it? there's all the information you need in the OP, if you've read it and still feel the need to say "I don't care", then it's just to piss people off.
I think there is a reasonable discussion to be had about what CDPR does from here? Once could be a rogue employee, twice could be that coupled with bad management. 3 times makes me think there is something rotten within the company and they need to weed it out.
Also a depressing discussion to be had that this abhorrent behaviour is likely to have zero impact on the sales of cyberpunk. People talk a good game but those dissing this behaviour will still be in the OT when the game releases talking about how incredible it is.
When the department of a company directly responsible for communicating with the general public and press continually puts out transphobic messages, with no evident change in oversight or approach after several incidents in a row, I think it's ok to suggest that those are the messages the company is happy with its name being behind.
I guess that people who acted surprised never been to Poland. We filthy infidels, well too treated like shit, whenever we mentioned our country of origin, honestly we travel a lot and I have never been treated this poorly, what is worse that we are their country neighbors. Religion is strong there.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Dismissing transphobia, ignoring mod post. Account still in junior phase.
This was a stupid, tone-deaf tweet by someone who I'd like to think was ignorant, rather than hateful. Whatever the reason, it shouldn't have happened and I don't blame people for wanting to boycott CDPR products now.
That said, the bans being thrown around on here are a bit ridiculous though. There's no need to stifle discussion unless something offensive has occurred, you shouldn't ban people for asking questions.
That said, the bans being thrown around on here are a bit ridiculous though. There's no need to stifle discussion unless something offensive has occurred, you shouldn't ban people for asking questions.
Very foolish and offensive tweets. I'd like to think the person running their social media accounts doesn't represent the views of the majority of the studio (or GOG). Gonna be keeping a close eye on how this develops.
No, this is not a witch hunt. A witch hunt by definition is placing judgment based on something that doesn't exist. That is what the right is doing. Looking for or claiming the existence of bogeymen where there is none.
Transphobia, homophobia, racism, sexism. It all exists and deserves to be criticized and called out.
what questions are there to ask? OP was pretty clear and there's not a lot to discuss unless you're one of the people who want to come in here and talk about how much it doesn't affect you, in which case I, and rightfully others, are going to speak up. (general you, for clarification)
You're obviously talking about a specific post. I'm talking about the general vibe of the thread. I'm not going to go back and forth and I'm not here to derail the point of the thread. I may be naive in my thinking, but I'm just saying shutting down indifferent people immediately seems counterintuitive in trying to make people see sense, rather than just a bunch of like minded people agreeing with each other.
I refuse to believe anyone is actually naive enough to believe that this is a problem with the social media team. A social media manager's job is to speak on behalf of the company, and it could not be any more obvious that they've been doing exactly that. CDPR is a company that supports Gamergate and intolerance towards trans people. This is not ambiguous. Stop pretending to be dumb to excuse the behavior of your darling developers.
Who was banned for asking a question? I only see bans for people saying they don't care/it doesn't matter.
When someone shows you who they are believe them.
This is not a mistake, or ignorance. This is a pattern of behavior.
This is not a mistake, or ignorance. This is a pattern of behavior.
Anyone putting out PR material on social media literally does represent the company, that's the job. If it was a one-off, perhaps you can argue that someone who really shouldn't be doing communications slipped through the net. That this is the third time now shows that management has no interest in perhaps making sure the person representing them isn't a bigoted fuckwit.
No, no in don't. I think you need to understand not everyone delved as deeply into political or social issues as you do.
Or perhaps aren't from a place where such issues are at the forefront.
Aside from 10 minutes ago, I had no idea the term "Witch Hunt" was so maligned. I'll be honest and say I still don't understand why likening something to a historical act is somehow prejudice of me but not using that phrase hardly ruins my day.
That being said your post is proof of the complain I made. Instead of communicating and listening you instead jump on top of me accusing me of having ill intent, which I'm sure you've gathered from having some intimate knowledge of me as a person
Or perhaps aren't from a place where such issues are at the forefront.
Aside from 10 minutes ago, I had no idea the term "Witch Hunt" was so maligned. I'll be honest and say I still don't understand why likening something to a historical act is somehow prejudice of me but not using that phrase hardly ruins my day.
That being said your post is proof of the complain I made. Instead of communicating and listening you instead jump on top of me accusing me of having ill intent, which I'm sure you've gathered from having some intimate knowledge of me as a person
The second sentence really makes the whole thing comes off as particularly snide. If they didn't mean that either then wow this PR person really needs to learn PR.
And wait, who got banned for asking questions?
I guess I am saying that I hope most of the people who work at CDPR/GoG don't have the same mindset as the person making these tweets. I'm not sure if management had a clue these were going up, let alone condoning them.
User Banned (permanent): Junior account downplaying transphobia
I think it's still a little ridiculous that having an opinion is a bannable offence on a discussion board. It creates the kind of echo chamber that people accuse Era of being. If people are allowed to say they're upset then why aren't people allowed to say it doesn't bother them or that they aren't upset? That's utterly one sided.
If we cannot present opposing opinions, It turns a discussion into a rally, and a rally into a witch hunt. How long will it be before you burn me at the stake for this post, I wonder?
That's not really how social media management works. You work within the definitions of the company, yes, but you don't usually answer directly to the top brass (unless it's a smaller company). You are essentially a marketing/support branch of the company, and those are usually the people you work with. That said, their continued fuckups seem to me to be the biggest problem. If this was a one-time deal you might be able to explain it via cultural ignorance and stupidity, but at some point you'd expect the social team and the company at large to train better to avoid these situations. Instead, they seem to have adopted this "edgy attempts at humor" and it has backfired on them continually. It's not funny, it's alienating and demeaning.
The self-righteousness in this post is thicker than oatmeal.
"I'm just a natural contrarian lol why can't I just say I don't care isn't this a discussion board lol" is the reason he got banned, among concern trolling.
Because saying you don't care about trans people or that jokes about trans people don't bother you, that's against the terms of service of this website.
I'm aware of what a witch hunt is and I'm also very aware that all the listed issues exist.
However where I liken it to a Witch Hunt is that people are quick to find those issues in people where they don't exist. (ie brutally murdering women for commiting acts of "magic")
I've been accused of "thinly veiled " insults already in this tread, when I by no means implied any, and will personally apologise to anyone who feels I've insulted them.
That is why I likened it to a Witch Hunt, no other reason
The term comes from the persecution of women, backed by religion. That it's then been repurposed hundreds of years later by bigots, apologists for sexual predators and fundamentalists, claiming that it's hard to exist as a privileged white guy in the 21st century when their behaviour is called out, is a ridiculous assumption of victimhood and plea for sympathy as political cover and by the powerful, and not exactly difficult to see why the term shouldn't be used by such people. I've probably used it in the past as you have, but it's modern context in 2018, following its relatively recent use as above, is even more loaded.
Still, as you say, now you know it's easy to avoid. Respect for that.
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