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FrostyLemon

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,635
I never get invested in video game stories, but the Mass Effect universe is the one exception to that rule and this exchange literally gave me chills when I watched it. The music is so ominous and his voice fits with it perfectly.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
What makes the Sovereign and Vigil conversations in Mass Effect so poignant is they embody the tone of a big, strange, mysterious universe that only the very original game managed to evoke. I don't need to profess my love for the Mass Effect trilogy any more than I already have, but neither sequel captures the galactic mystery and wonder of discover that the original does. The importance here is scope; Mass Effect does a phenomenal job of making you feel very small against the narrative backdrop. The illusion is convincing; despite design limitations the galaxy feels big. The sprawling, empty surfaces of uncharted worlds gentle illuminated under a vast, sparkling galactic sky is nicely contrasted by intimate conversations weighted with grand implications.

Sovereign doesn't reveal much and is really, in practice, an a-typical unexplainable monstrous villain taunting the protagonist. But to be faced with this, an enormous biomechanical terror with absolute confidence in a billion year long tyrannical grip over the galaxy, yourself a fleshy nothingness in its presence, narratively echoes the same tones as the aforementioned presentation and visual direction. Sovereign and the Reapers are very big things and you are very small and the scope and brevity of their importance and power dwarves everything else you've experienced thus far. Vigil is the historic thumbprint of similar tones; you stand in the ruins on a devastated civilization that was once the height of accomplishment and conquest, one that struggled in the greatest war the galaxy had ever seen, one they lost but still managed to leave a significant impact on despite the extinction of their entire species. And all that's left as a memory, that you are face to face with, is a broken, short circuiting AI glitching out history surrounded by lonely, moss overgrown ruins.

Mass Effect 2 and 3 have different highs and casually evoke similar themes at certain moments, but because of the tonal shift and pacing of the narrative take on different properties and tell their own story evocative of different themes. Andromeda had potential to accomplish similar tones to Mass Effect, but crumbled under an inconsistent narrative that is oddly overindulgent in making a strange, alien galaxy feel very safe, populated, and familiar.
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,019
It was terrific. Definitely one of the most memorable parts of the whole trilogy, and really cemented the Reapers as an imposing force.

It was pretty great.

And then mac walters came in for ME2 and took a giant dump all over what was planned for the series when Karpshyn was there.

I liked the gameplay improvements but narratively ME2 did nothing for me. After the battle with Sovereign in the first game and then barely winning with the whole fleet against one Reaper, the sequel immediately puts the breaks on that, splits up Team Shepard and has you chasing the scent of the Collectors the whole game. It felt so dreadfully anticlimactic and uninteresting.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
I semi-believe the conversation with Sovereign and the introduction of the Reapers was where it all went wrong.

Bioware excels most at character writing, and you can't really do that for Mecha Shoggoths.

The talk with Sovereign is legitimately fantastic, as is the following one with Vigil, but the both of them lead to a lot to live up to, and I don't think Bioware succeeded in doing so.
 
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TheWorthyEdge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,814
I LTTP'ed this Trilogy like 2 years ago, the first one would've been one of my all time GOATs if it didn't play so clunky :(

Maybe I should give it a replay.

ME2 still up there though

This. ME2 is amazing because of how well the game feels to play. ME1 though, storywise, is off the charts. So good. The Kade/Ashley decision, Wrex, Sovereign, Saren EVERYTHING.
 
Jan 4, 2018
8,617
Too bad they completely ruined Harbinger in ME3.

They say he is the most powerful and the oldest Reaper, yet he can't kill Shepard despite a DIRECT hit. Moreover he is TOTALLY silent/invisible during the 99,9% of the game whereas his dialogues in ME2 made him a character as cool as Sovereign.

"You are bacteria"
"We are the beginning, you are the end"
"If I must tear you apart, Shepard, I will"
"And now you stand alone, Shepard"
"I will direct this personally"
"ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL !"

"You fight against inevitability. Dust struggling against cosmic winds.
This seems a victory to you. A star system sacrificed.
But even now, your greatest civilizations are doomed to fall. Your leaders will beg to serve us.
Know this as you die in vain: Your time will come. Your species will fall.
Prepare yourselves for the Arrival."

Harbinger (and Reapers in general) in ME3 was super weak, ridiculous and invisible. What a waste.
 
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L4DANathan

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
856
Fairfax, VA, USA
That conversation + the conversation with Vigil are the highlights of the entire series. By comparison, the rest of the trilogy feels like it was written by children.
 

Deleted member 5359

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,326
My favorite moment in the series, really. The realization that the Geth and Saren were nothing, Sovereign is a Reaper, and strap the fuck in.

Turned the whole story on its ear.
 

SavoyPrime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,180
North Carolina USA
Better than ME3? What? In what universe can anyone say this sentence with a straight face?
It just happened lol. In all seriousness, ME3 didn't suck. I didn't like the ending and I thought it was the worst of the trilogy, but it's not a shit game. I do feel Andromeda is better tho. Just an opinion. If you want to pass on Andromeda, completely up to you. But it isn't a bad game.
 

SpotAnime

Member
Dec 11, 2017
2,072
It upsets me that I played through the first two games, and read the first two novels, yet I have no recollection of this AT ALL.
 

BouncyFrag

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,772
We go from that on ME1 to this on ME3:

latest
Damn that still hurts. Amazing moment nonetheless.
 

HououinKyouma

The Wise Ones
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,366
Weird, was just looking up this scene the other day. I agree, one of the most memorable moments of an all time great series.
 

Mozendo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,230
Pacific North West
Give Andromeda a go. As a fan of the franchise, it seriously wasn't bad in my opinion. Was certainly better than ME3, that's for sure. And a lot of the bugs/glitches have been worked out that plagued it at launch.
I agree.
People love to shit on ME:A, but honestly I've had more fun with the game than I ever did with ME3. Some people think that ME:A is the black sheep of the franchise, to me it's 3 just due to the fact that it seems that the focus of story was thrown out for gameplay.
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,902
Virmire cemented the game as one of my favourites. You go from this awesome conversation to having to decide to leave one of your teammates behind. That decision floored me! And even before that the whole Wrex situation came up! Since it was my first playthrough, Wrex was killed so this next one I was like fuck I don't want to lose another squad member!

Virmire is the height of the Mass Effect series so far.
 

Remember

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,484
Chicago, IL United States
What I mainly get from this is that male Shepard's voice is so bland. I'm glad I stuck to FemShep all the way through.

I have played both male and female shep and both have their strengths and weaknesses. Jennifer Hale is more of an actor than Mark Meer but sometimes that is to her detriment. When it comes to giving military speeches and most renegade or action encounters, she over-acts and over emotes. When it comes to kind and emotional moments, Mark Meer falters at times. The best way to go is paragon female Shepard and Renegade Male Shepard. Male Shepard is meant to be played in a more renegade fashion due to how much better his voice acting is in renegade situations. Also that exchange in dialogue was not his best.

At Mark Meer's best he sounds like a young version of Kevin Conroy's Batman. And to me that's pretty damn good.

 

Derrick01

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,289
I liked the gameplay improvements but narratively ME2 did nothing for me. After the battle with Sovereign in the first game and then barely winning with the whole fleet against one Reaper, the sequel immediately puts the breaks on that, splits up Team Shepard and has you chasing the scent of the Collectors the whole game. It felt so dreadfully anticlimactic and uninteresting.

Yup and bioware elevating cerberus into such a huge central role in the overall plot was also not part of the original plan when karpshyn was there. That was another brilliant mac walters idea.

They were originally supposed to stay where they were in ME1. A pro human group that was more on the morally grey side than straight up space terrorist group. They dabbled in sketchy experiments in ME1 but they were never meant to be such a massive part of the game.
 

ibyea

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,163
There is like 500 variations of saying "we are awesome, you are not" in that cutscene.
 

Rodney McKay

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,186
Recently tried to replay ME:A and managed maybe to get halfway through before getting completely sick of it.

The gameplay is fun if you play close range, boosting around and stuff (first time I mostly played it cover shooter like ME2+3, and it kinda ducked like that), but that isn't enough to make up for the completely uninteresting storyline.

It has moments of quality, like the mystery of what happened to the various arks and a little bit of the ancient precursor race (even if it's a COMPLETE retread from ME1-3).
The new villains were a complete dud; basically a dumber, less intimidating version of the Borg.

Such a downgrade from the Reapers, even counting ME3 giving them the most cliche, generic, (I really don't want to say lazy) motivation imaginable. Still better than the Kett with their big goofy eyes and rock skin who pose practically no threat to you the whole game, yet you're constantly told how big of a threat they are in cutscenes and dialog.

Imagine ME1 where the Reapers are supposed to be a big threat, but then in gameplay you kill dozens of Reapers in every combat encounter.
 

cervanky

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,296
I didn't really like it.

They're robotic Lovecraftian aliens. Alright, that's cool, they're an incomprehensible, immortal race that sees us as insects. So why talk to us? Do we talk to ants and explain how we'll soon crush them? What's up with the totally human-like and understandable exposition?

The game tells us that the Reapers are so far beyond organic life, and then what it shows us is that they speak in a totally understandable way to people using relatable logic. What motivates it to speak to people? It's unneeded exposition. It's not too dissimilar to the Borg in Star Trek, where on the one hand we're told they don't give a shit about us and then on the other hand they keep on blabbing to us, initially through drones, then through Locutus, and then in the form of a Borg Queen. So, which is it?

Silence might have been scarier. Death without explanation. Knowing that it can communicate but that it isn't interested enough to bother.

It's a memorable part of the game but also the SF equivelant of a Bond villain monologue. He has zero reason to talk to you and if he does talk he has zero reason to give away that he's actually a space ship and also evil and also intends on destroying everything. It's not like these things are below him either, he's been keeping this shit secret and manipulating people this cycle for hundreds of years.

Yeah, exactly.
 
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Bluelote

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,024
I still remember very clearly during my first time play it being blown away with that part...
ME1 is such a great game, I really miss having those games to look forward to, and it was over 10 years ago by now...
what a great run Bioware had back then, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect and Dragon Age Origins all in 6 years...
 

Frozenprince

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,158
It's a shame that they completely ruin that by not only making Reapers a tangible entity that you can kill, but then explaining their eldritch motivations as being absolutely idiotic and nonsensical.

Still a great moment, though.
 

Sagroth

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,832
My one issue with the conversation is the whole "our actions are beyond your understanding" nonsense. Nah bruh, it really ain't that complicated.
 
Nov 1, 2017
848
It's a great moment, but damn it's a poor showing of the conversation system when you play it again and realize that every choice leads to the exact same dialogue.
 

Aprikurt

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,775
My one issue with the conversation is the whole "our actions are beyond your understanding" nonsense. Nah bruh, it really ain't that complicated.
I mean, it might have been at one point. Not the ME1 writer's fault that they turned him into a sanctimonious AI baby.
 

MDSVeritas

Gameplay Programmer, Sony Santa Monica
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,026
The Vigil and Sovereign conversations come together as the greatest highlights of the first game for me. They are exceptionally well done in the refreshong world building they offer to those games. Along with a few other factors through the series, those two conversations help to cement the Mass Effect universe as one of the great sci-fi universes of all time.
 

BrassDragon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,154
The Netherlands
One of my best gaming memories. It's hard to describe how impactful that scene was as a plot twist after many hours of first-time immersion in the Mass Effect universe.

The core of Mass Effect was making you feel truly heroic / badass and the first game's villain and twist gave you a threat to rise to. It's an overlooked part of Andromeda's misfire.
 

jahasaja

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
793
Sweden
yes this was a huge moment in the game and one of my favorites from last gen. i accept that i am a hipster asshole for not liking where the series went after the first game, but the writing in ME1 is just too good.

It is one of those games that you feel like you are crazy compared to others. Nothing in the writing department in 2 and 3 ever came close to ME1 for me.

Also, adept gameplay in ME1 is also the most fun gameplay in the series.
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,097
I mean, it might have been at one point. Not the ME1 writer's fault that they turned him into a sanctimonious AI baby.

It is their "fault" that they did not actually supply a good reason. Even if you accept the theory/rumour that they originally intended (as of ME1) for the Reapers to be "protecting the galaxy from dark energy" that's not any better of an explanation than what eventually came of it.

So much writing in ME1 and ME2 is the writers making promises about all sorts of things. Numerous mysteries, numerous major choices given to the player etc. It doesn't seem fair to blame the 2nd and 3rd games exclusively for the pie-in-the-sky stuff that the first game set up.
 

Laser Man

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,683
My one issue with the conversation is the whole "our actions are beyond your understanding" nonsense. Nah bruh, it really ain't that complicated.

You can see that in two ways tho, one is "If what you are saying is truly the case then why are you even engaging in this "exchange" with me? Bad writing!" or "This thing talks a lot of smack and maybe it has the muscle to back it up, but the fact it is even talking to me like that means there is a bit more behind it than a cold-calculating machine, it's arrogance!".

If that was intentional or not I don't know but they reduced the reapers to servants in 3 so all the boasting didn't really made much sense in the end.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
It's a real shame that the series literally never built upon the strengths of the series and instead sexed everything up while throwing out the things that made it so compelling. They still could have had the better shooting controls without sacrificing the complexity, RPG and exploration elements and story telling that 1 established. It was a beautiful homage to 1970s sci-fi with a sort of lucid dream quality that purveyed every moment.
 

big_z

Member
Nov 2, 2017
7,794
Man they could make a direct sequel to the original trilogy. There is enough room and holes in the lore to do so, just have to ignore Andromeda like it never existed.
 
Feb 1, 2018
5,240
Europe


Literally, every single line is quotable. Every single one.

"I am the vanguard of your destruction. This exchange is over."

"We Impose Order on the Chaos of Organic Evolution. You exist because we allow it. You will end, because we demand it."

Up until this point I was merely liking ME1, as all SciFi and was just enjoying the world-building. THIS moment is where I fell completely in love.


Indeed... ME had such potential after this event... but they decided to go COD for ME2 and JRPG for the ending of ME3. What a f*ck up.

The Reapers could have been a new evolutionary lifeform that evolved every few billion years based on the dominant species of the galaxy by assimilating them. A novel SF concept and full of potential.

Instead they became some boring enemy controlled by some kid/AI/mind.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,281
Totally agree OP, at that point Shepard literally faced a technological God and all they could do was just stand there in awe. Also another reason why I really disliked Harbinger, he doesn't have shit on Sovereign.

"We are each a nation..."

The writers of ME3 should have followed that more closely.
 

Ravelle

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,764
I watch that video at least a couple of times a year. Writing at its best, such a bummer 3 totally ruined the reapers.

M1: Oh shit, a reaper, one reaper that treatens our existence with its presence, can't imagine what their entire civilation looks like.
M3: Guyz, Reaperz, shoot them in the eyeballs.
 

Thornquist

Member
Jan 22, 2018
1,499
Norway
Man, why did Mac Walters ruin this franchise with his Cerberus obsession?
I liked it when humans were a small player in the galactic stage. The sequels started to elevate our species to something "special". Zzzzzz...