NYT: Trump Administration Eyes Defining Transgender Out of Existence

WorldofMiku said:

They're not cowards, they just value their accounts more. Trying to defend this will get them banned.

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"I'm not a coward, I'm just afraid of defending what I believe in because I'm afraid I'll get banned from an internet forum."

A meaningful distinction if I ever saw one. /s

Nachos said:

Sorry, I should've been more specific – now they care about invoking science

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The apparent contradiction evaporates once you notice they're not invoking science, they're invoking """"science"""". This is a frequent friend of the right, invoked often in global warning debates as well.

I was wondering when Pence would make a bolder move from the shadows. No way he is not involved.

I'm ignorant to a lot of this but I though sex, gender, and gender identity were 3 different things. The story seemed to be using terms interchangeably.

Mauricio_Magus said:

Do they do the most evil shit possible on purpose to divide people more or what?

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Absolutely. They know this stuff will make people on the left angry, and nothing makes Republican voters more likely to vote than angry liberals. The entire party functions on an engine run by pure spite.

matimeo said:

I was wondering when Pence would make a bolder move from the shadows. No way he is not involved.

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He legitimately might not be. This is more culture war bullshit that Trump loves.

matimeo said:

I was wondering when Pence would make a bolder move from the shadows. No way he is not involved.

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Pence is probably working day and night on this. Well, at night when "mother" allows him to.

EthanKart said:

I don't have a problem with the science behind this. I think it's important to have a concrete definition of someone's gender just from a healthcare perspective. Unclear to me how this will effect transgender people.

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I've really got to wonder what science some people are looking at. In my studies as a lowly master's student of Psychology this pops up from time to time and you know I've got to say that I can't find a medically relevant reason to need to have a "concrete" definition in a medical setting of someone's gender. Generally you examine your patient and ask them relevant questions and then tailor your treatment plan based on the things you discover and your own medical knowledge of those. Side note: Binary isn't a term I would use to describe anything testing to sex and gender. Fuck Trump for this shit.

Gwenpoolshark said:

He legitimately might not be. This is more culture war bullshit that Trump loves.

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You are forgetting or are unaware of Pence's history before the Whitehouse as an elected official if you think this is unlike him. He's a foul hate filled puss bag that gets off on the idea of trying to make LGBTQ people suffer.

Thordinson said:

The problem is the science behind this doesn't say that gender is immutable. It says that sex may be. It also says that sex isn't binary as there are many more types behind XX and XY.

Unclear? It would strip them of their rights and attempt to strip them of their identities. This is clearly aimed at his base who are transphobic. It isn't about science. It's about hurting others.

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That's interesting. I'd like to read more about gender not being binary. Do you have any scholarly, peer reviewed articles youd recommend on the subject?

I thought those arseholes would do this sooner.

matimeo said:

I was wondering when Pence would make a bolder move from the shadows. No way he is not involved.

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This is all pence.

Its beyond shameful that we have a major political party that's looking for a voting surge in their favor on the backs of something like this.

Brock Reiher said:

Why would gender matter for healthcare?

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There are conditions and diseases that only affect a specific gender, so it actually matters to some extent.

Galleren said:

There are conditions and diseases that only affect a specific gender, so it actually matters to some extent.

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genders aren't a biological thing though, they're a social construct.

This has to be Pence

Brock Reiher said:

genders aren't a biological thing though, they're a social construct.

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Uh...yes. That's what the Trump admin is trying to argue isn't true.

Galleren said:

There are conditions and diseases that only affect a specific gender, so it actually matters to some extent.

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You mean sex.

And there is already a word for what Trump wants to force gender to mean, and it's sex.

Galleren said:

There are conditions and diseases that only affect a specific gender, so it actually matters to some extent.

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Can you explain to me under what situation its necessary for you to have that on your birth certificate for your doctor to see? Why can't we just you know talk to our doctors about this?

Zeno said:

Uh...yes. That's what the Trump admin is trying to argue isn't true.

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Yeah, so it's not helpful at all for medicine.

Galleren said:

There are conditions and diseases that only affect a specific gender, so it actually matters to some extent.

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there are conditions that only affect, say, people with a uterus, but not everyone with a uterus is a woman and not all women have a uterus. biological essentialism like that is wrong.

edit: dp

Their plan seems to be to define human rights out of existence a little bit at a time.

EthanKart said:

That's interesting. I'd like to read more about gender not being binary. Do you have any scholarly, peer reviewed articles youd recommend on the subject?

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Are you purposefully conflating gender with sex?

Here's a good resource about intersex conditions with plenty of papers cited.

Basically, if intersex people exist, and they do, it cannot be binary.

Mahonay said:

You are forgetting or are unaware of Pence's history before the Whitehouse as an elected official if you think this is unlike him. He's a foul hate filled puss bag that gets off on the idea of trying to make LGBTQ people suffer.

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Yup. People give Trump too much credit. He's there as a big distraction most of the time and has no history of forming his own thoughts especially the past few years. He literally parrots the last person who spoke to him (or what he saw on TV) and made him feel good, hence his inability to stick to any side or story.

Trump is simple to define as are his motives. Look at those around him and those that allowed and encouraged the current situation if you really want to see some truly dark people. Btw they love the focus on Trump as it lets them push their agenda with very little interference. Trump loves it too because he's still starved for any attention he can get because daddy didn't give him any as a child.

EthanKart said:

I don't have a problem with the science behind this. I think it's important to have a concrete definition of someone's gender just from a healthcare perspective. Unclear to me how this will effect transgender people.

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This does not serve the medical or scientific community. There's no crisis of doctors misdiagnosing illnesses because they don't know if you had a penis at birth or not. The premise that there is a need for a change like this on a practical basis is asinine and, frankly, fucking insulting. All a change like this CAN accomplish is excluding trans people from coverage from the Civil Rights Act and it's subsequents, by legally disassociating sex from trans identity.

Or in more familiar words, there are some very hateful people running this federal government.

Edit: thank you mods, I was starting to associate babies with transparent republican apologetics

Ketkat said:

Can you explain to me under what situation its necessary for you to have that on your birth certificate for your doctor to see? Why can't we just you know talk to our doctors about this?

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I didnt advocate for your BC to be what identifies you. Thats your choice, and of course... Any treatment starts with talking to your doctor.

I was just saying that there are diseases etc that are exclusive to males and females. I guess i mixed up sex and gender and what not. It's not my area of expertise, to put it lightly.

Gwenpoolshark said:

He legitimately might not be. This is more culture war bullshit that Trump loves.

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Nah. I doubt Trump cares enough. 99% sure this is a Pence move.

Metallix87 said:

Nah. I doubt Trump cares enough. 99% sure this is a Pence move.

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Galleren said:

I didnt advocate for your BC to be what identifies you. Thats your choice, and of course... Any treatment starts with talking to your doctor.

I was just saying that there are diseases etc that are exclusive to males and females. I guess i mixed up sex and gender and what not. It's not my area of expertise, to put it lightly.

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If it's not your area of expertise why do you feel a need to swoop into this thread and post as if you have any understanding whatsoever about the topic at hand?

Abisolute trash. Self-righteous bigots shouldn't be allowed anywhere near government.

Mercury Fred said:

If it's not your area of expertise why do you feel a need to swoop into this thread and post as if you have any understanding whatsoever about the topic at hand?

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If it's a requirement to be an expert in the area that is being discussed in threads, i think most threads would be graveyards. Besides, i was making a comment on the post about medical/healthcare issues. I'll make sure to check with you next time i plan on posting in a thread

Mauricio_Magus said:

Do they do the most evil shit possible on purpose to divide people more or what?

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Winning the midterms.

So, uh, will transgendered people still be banned from military service? If they don't exist, how can you ban them?

I wish nothing but the absolute worst for everybody involved in this turd of an administration, now and forever.

Galleren said:

If it's a requirement to be an expert in the area that is being discussed in threads, i think most threads would be graveyards. Besides, i was making a comment on the post about medical/healthcare issues. I'll make sure to check with you next time i plan on posting in a thread

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It speaks to your privilege that you came into this thread making proclamations when you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

But yeah, keep coming into trans threads and pretending you have any idea what you're saying.

Oh, I forgot to mention; fuck this administration and fuck everyone who voted for it. This is so abhorrent that I feel the urge to puke.

The struggle of the transgender community is bad enough without the government deciding with "science*" that they don't exist.


*Note: not science

My administration will eye defining all republicans as nazis.

Mercury Fred said:

It speaks to your privilege that you came into this thread making proclamations when you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

But yeah, keep coming into trans threads and pretending you have any idea what you're saying.

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Like i said, there are diseases and conditions that are exclusive to males and females. Now, if that is not the case, please feel free to tell me i don't know what i'm talking about. I also said that when it comes to gender identity etc, i'm not an expert. That doesn't invalidate my first statement. I was commenting on that.
I don't know why you're getting so overly defensive and acting like an asshole.

PK Gaming said:

Hey, remember



There is no bottom for them

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Yet, be civil tho.

Can we have like, a national holiday for when any member of this administration is no longer part of the world of the living?

Galleren said:

Like i said, there are diseases and conditions that are exclusive to males and females. Now, if that is not the case, please feel free to tell me i don't know what i'm talking about. I also said that when it comes to gender identity etc, i'm not an expert. That doesn't invalidate my first statement. I was commenting on that.
I don't know why you're getting so overly defensive and acting like an asshole.

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There are diseases tied to certain sex organs and hormone levels. Even if you're a cis male, your hormones won't be exactly the same as another cis male and a doctor would have to check them anyway.

I hate these men so much. The things I'd like to say would get me banned from this forum though.

To the LGBT folks who voted for Trump, have your eyes been opened yet that he will say anything to get your vote? Do you now see that he is human garbage and we shouldn't have people like this in office?

Are you going to make a smarter choice in the upcoming elections?

Technically could this lead to a successful lawsuit against his transgender military ban?

They are baiting people, trying to drum up the old favorites right before the election to divide the country again. NYT pushing out more propaganda for the Trump administration.

Foffy said:

Can we have like, a national holiday for when any member of this administration is no longer part of the world of the living?

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I know it's against the site rules but you can be goddamm sure I'll be celebrating when Donald Trump dies.

Galleren said:

Like i said, there are diseases and conditions that are exclusive to males and females. Now, if that is not the case, please feel free to tell me i don't know what i'm talking about. I also said that when it comes to gender identity etc, i'm not an expert. That doesn't invalidate my first statement. I was commenting on that.
I don't know why you're getting so overly defensive and acting like an asshole.

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And a trans woman has the same breast cancer risk as cis woman and not like a cis man if she is on hormone therapy. It's not just birth sex and a doctor should probably know the full medical history anyway.

But I guess the next step would be to deny them access to hormone therapy.

Mulberry said:

They are baiting people, trying to drum up the old favorites right before the election to divide the country again. NYT pushing out more propaganda for the Trump administration.

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This too. It's always suspiciously timed isn't it? Deflect,Distract,Deny all in an effort to Divide so they can continue to rule and make the rules. Old school game.

Galleren said:

Like i said, there are diseases and conditions that are exclusive to males and females. Now, if that is not the case, please feel free to tell me i don't know what i'm talking about. I also said that when it comes to gender identity etc, i'm not an expert. That doesn't invalidate my first statement. I was commenting on that.
I don't know why you're getting so overly defensive and acting like an asshole.

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This is projecting.

Let me ask you, what about this topic interests you so much that you decided to come and post in it? Just curious.

Amevila said:

And a trans woman has the same breast cancer risk as cis woman and not like a cis man if she is on hormone therapy. It's not just birth sex and a doctor should probably know the full medical history anyway.

But I guess the next step would be to deny them access to hormone therapy.

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And that's fine, and i get that. I'm not arguing any of that at all. I was just saying that there are diseases that only affect certain sexes, and that it does matter in healthcare what kind of sex you define yourself as.