Making A Murderer: Part 2 official trailer - 10/19

Dyl · Oct 21, 2018

Finished S2 this morning. I wasn't looking forward to this much because it didn't feel like they had enough interesting material. But as far as postmortem docs go, this was surprisingly great. They acknowledge missing details from S1, add details that weren't brought up at all, and dissect the key evidence. My thoughts on the case have just been magnified from S1. The evidence against Steve is somehow even worse than before.

A few minor spoilers:

I'm a sucker for details, so the huge focus on testing the evidence with experiments and reenactments was fantastic. The development of the timeline and investigation into other suspects was also a highlight.

That phone call between Steve, Barb and Scott. WHEW.

Fuck the judges who allowed this to happen to Brendan.

Zem · Oct 21, 2018

This season was great.

I ended up at season 1 thinking "Steven probably did it but he should never have been found guilty after that trial"

At the end of season 2 I'm thinking "I'm 100% sure he didn't do it".

I dunno how anyone can watch this season and still think he did it.

The part with Brendan so close to being released, literally hours, and ending up still in there is heartbreaking and infuriating.

AgainstTheCurrent · Oct 21, 2018

I dont see how you can watch it and be sure he didn't kill her.

I think cops framed the evidence. Nobody can really deny that.

But in terms of who killed her, he's still the most likely for me.

Bobby is still second choice for me.

Zem · Oct 21, 2018

I think Bobby and Scott are far more likely the killer(s) than Steven.

TheBeardedOne · Oct 21, 2018

I just got Netflix. Should I watch the first Making a Murderer? I remember it being quite big at the time, but have heard some things about the case being thrown out or something. Should I just move on and consider it spoiled?

Zem · Oct 21, 2018

Nah you should watch it. Knowing the outcome doesn't matter, the real story is the farce of the trial and the police planting evidence.

AgainstTheCurrent · Oct 21, 2018

Zem said:
I think Bobby and Scott are far more likely the killer(s) than Steven.

The search history is compelling.

But their little scenario of her being flashed down after leaving didn't really do it for me.

Nothus · Oct 21, 2018

Zem said:
This season was great.

I ended up at season 1 thinking "Steven probably did it but he should never have been found guilty after that trial"

At the end of season 2 I'm thinking "I'm 100% sure he didn't do it".

I dunno how anyone can watch this season and still think he did it.

The part with Brendan so close to being released, literally hours, and ending up still in there is heartbreaking and infuriating.

I feel pretty much the same way. Season 2 addresses some of the faults/omissions from season 1 and just brings in even more bits of info that make me doubt they have the right guy for this even more.
The reaction of the sniffer dogs, the ex boyfriend having her journal, the whole deal with the computer searches and Bobby's perjury, the witness who saw the rav and told that shit cop about it, the cell tower pings. All of it.

MazeHaze · Oct 21, 2018

Man I fucking hate Ken Kratz and the interrogators. You can tell with all their press events and stuff they don't give a fuck about the case, this is all about keeping their personas in tact, making sure they're never proven wrong, and being the winners. It's disgusting.

Deleted member 8257 · Oct 21, 2018

ep3 spoiler.

When Dassey team were celebrating in episode 3, I knew it was gonna be shortlived :(

Is there something in there that we dont know yet, like crazy twist?

Carolina Reaper · Oct 21, 2018

Zem said:
I dunno how anyone can watch this season and still think he did it.

Because I watched it too. Motherfucker is right where he belongs. Rotting in prison.

Robochimp · Oct 21, 2018

TheBeardedOne said:
I just got Netflix. Should I watch the first Making a Murderer? I remember it being quite big at the time, but have heard some things about the case being thrown out or something. Should I just move on and consider it spoiled?

Definitely watch season 1, nothing in the cases have changed, nothing has been spoiled.

AgainstTheCurrent · Oct 21, 2018

Carolina Reaper said:
Because I watched it too. Motherfucker is right where he belongs. Rotting in prison.

Someone shouldn't be convicted under these circumstances.

MazeHaze · Oct 21, 2018

Man watching her just straight up show how the chain of custody went with those swabs from the hood latch is crazy. Seems pretty clear.

Edge · Oct 21, 2018

Carolina Reaper said:
Because I watched it too. Motherfucker is right where he belongs. Rotting in prison.

And that's exactly the reason why the US court system is trash. Because people like you, after this mess of a trial and the countless bullshit facts, would still send him to jail. That really makes me angry.

Vas · Oct 21, 2018

Edge said:
And that's exactly the reason why the US court system is trash. Because people like you, after this mess of a trial and the countless bullshit facts, would still send him to jail. That really makes me angry.

Not talking about the person to whom you are replying, but there are idiots who still think the West Memphis Three are guilty. Lots of em, all trained to blindly obey authority and seek police approval.

Deleted member 5167 · Oct 21, 2018

I'm not very far in yet, but its kind of saddening how much the new attorney is throwing the old ones under the bus constantly talking about what a shit defence job they did, when S1 showed the uphill battle they had and how they were blocked at every step of the way
But then

they show themselves still as good guys and go "Well yeah, if you need to say we did a shit job and make a case for attorney incompetence, go for it. We would too. Anything to get the justice that never occurred."

AgainstTheCurrent · Oct 21, 2018

Dr Wily said:
I'm not very far in yet, but its kind of saddening how much the new attorney is throwing the old ones under the bus constantly talking about what a shit defence job they did, when S1 showed the uphill battle they had and how they were blocked at every step of the way
But then

they show themselves still as good guys and go "Well yeah, if you need to say we did a shit job and make a case for attorney incompetence, go for it. We would too. Anything to get the justice that never occurred."

She can't say they did a top job when she wants to get a new trial based on the fact the first was a sham...

Miller · Oct 21, 2018

Dr Wily said:
I'm not very far in yet, but its kind of saddening how much the new attorney is throwing the old ones under the bus constantly talking about what a shit defence job they did, when S1 showed the uphill battle they had and how they were blocked at every step of the way
But then

they show themselves still as good guys and go "Well yeah, if you need to say we did a shit job and make a case for attorney incompetence, go for it. We would too. Anything to get the justice that never occurred."

There is one particular revelation later in the season that I think alone makes a great case for attorney incompetence.

The additional definitely human bones that never got discussed during the trial at all. Like, they got eviscerated on the possibly human pelvis bone, but somehow missed the other piles of human bones?

Deleted member 5167 · Oct 21, 2018

AgainstTheCurrent said:
She can't say they did a top job when she wants to get a new trial based on the fact the first was a sham...

There was a ton of stuff that made the first trial outrageously injust that goes far beyond the scope of anything the first trials lawyers could have done anything about.
Just the constant "Man, did those knuckleheads do anything right?" kind of comments. Those guys did what they could in the scenario they were in.

Same as how she doesn't get to achieve anything in the exact same scenario

e:

Miller said:
There is one particular revelation later in the season that I think alone makes a great case for attorney incompetence.

I guess I'll get there when I get there, but those guys really didn't seem to be doing anything crazy or half-assing it.
Not like Brendans "Hey, I'll just get my own investigator to get my client to strengthen the states case against him while nobody is there representing him" attorney, so he could plea out and get a book deal.

Sectorseven · Oct 21, 2018

If the brother in law and nephew killed her, what was their motive?

Betty · Oct 21, 2018

Sectorseven said:
If the brother in law and nephew killed her, what was their motive?

Nephew had seemingly twisted fantasies about dead girls and the stepfather could've just helped his stepson to cover it up or simply saw an opportunity to assault Teresa.

Sectorseven · Oct 21, 2018

Betty said:
Nephew had seemingly twisted fantasies about dead girls and the stepfather could've just helped his stepson to cover it up or simply saw an opportunity to assault Teresa.

I guess I just need more information on their histories and character, because they don't strike me as sophisticated enough to premeditate this so thoroughly, nor do I think they could cover up a crime of passion so well (or whatever you'd call it).

There was that quote about "death of a thousand paper cuts" where this could be a series of police foul play and sheer dumb luck stacking the deck against Steve, but if that is in fact the case, man....

Gaming_Groove · Oct 21, 2018

Zellner's theory of the crime makes much more sense than anything the prosecution put forth, I'll give her that.

GMM · Oct 21, 2018

Just watched the first episode of the second season, still an incredibly well made series.

The new lawyer is quite something, her findings from doing the analysis and reconstruction of the blood spatter was quite damning compared to what the prosecution presented.

Betty · Oct 21, 2018

Sectorseven said:
I guess I just need more information on their histories and character, because they don't strike me as sophisticated enough to premeditate this so thoroughly, nor do I think they could cover up a crime of passion so well (or whatever you'd call it).

There was that quote about "death of a thousand paper cuts" where this could be a series of police foul play and sheer dumb luck stacking the deck against Steve, but if that is in fact the case, man....

It wouldn't be that sophisticated though, either Bobby flagged Teresa down or Scott had a hustle shoot scheduled for her that no one other than Teresa would know about until she had completed her rounds that day.

After that it's a simple case of leaving her car on Avery's property and possibly deciding to burn her body and dump some of the bones into Avery's fire pit.

All the other evidence could've been planted by the county to make Steven look guilty.

Bobby is the star witness though, if he really did tell his brother he saw her leave the property that destroys the narrative the prosecution had created.

Michael F. Assbender · Oct 21, 2018

Haven't had a chance to watch S2 yet, but do they address the fact that the bullet with her DNA was definitely fired from Steven's gun?

Sectorseven · Oct 21, 2018

Betty said:
It wouldn't be that sophisticated though, either Bobby flagged Teresa down or Scott had a hustle shoot scheduled for her that no one other than Teresa would know about until she had completed her rounds that day.

After that it's a simple case of leaving her car on Avery's property and possibly deciding to burn her body and dump some of the bones into Avery's fire pit.

All the other evidence could've been planted by the county to make Steven look guilty.

Bobby is the star witness though, if he really did tell his brother he saw her leave the property that destroys the narrative the prosecution had created.

Framing Steve seems like a huge risk though. That could have blown up in their faces so easily under normal circumstances, and again, they don't come across as some Littlefinger-esque masterminds thinking six chess moves ahead. Unless they had a cop friend on the inside who coordinated with them, but then we're literally getting into conspiracy territory.

It would have been far simpler to not plant evidence, hide or dismantle the car, and this case would have gone on the back burner for years, almost certainly with even less scrutiny on them.

Betty · Oct 21, 2018

Michael F. Assbender said:
Haven't had a chance to watch S2 yet, but do they address the fact that the bullet with her DNA was definitely fired from Steven's gun?

They mention the fact that gun was used all over the property perhaps thousands of times so finding one of those bullets isn't a huge deal.

They do discuss the dna though, I won't spoil it but what they discover is quite compelling.

Sectorseven said:
Framing Steve seems like a huge risk though. That could have blown up in their faces so easily under normal circumstances, and again, they don't come across as some Littlefinger-esque masterminds thinking six chess moves ahead. Unless they had a cop friend on the inside who coordinated with them, but then we're literally getting into conspiracy territory.

It would have been far simpler to not plant evidence, hide or dismantle the car, and this case would have gone on for years, almost certainly with even less scrutiny on them.

Well season 2 does reveal that possibly the Rav4 was sighted elsewhere and then potentially moved by an officer, so perhaps Scott and Bobby dumped the vehicle and the police took advantage of it to place it at Avery's property.

The show suggests Teresa was possibly buried or left at the end of Kuss road then at some point taken and burned, so the only thing the pair would have had to do was scatter some of her bones in Stevens fire pit, that would've been the only step they needed to take personally.

Jecht · Oct 21, 2018

Michael F. Assbender said:
Haven't had a chance to watch S2 yet, but do they address the fact that the bullet with her DNA was definitely fired from Steven's gun?

Yes. And it's wasn't Stevens gun

Carolina Reaper · Oct 21, 2018

Edge said:
And that's exactly the reason why the US court system is trash. Because people like you, after this mess of a trial and the countless bullshit facts, would still send him to jail. That really makes me angry.

I didnt realize I wasn't on a discussion forum giving an opinion and not on a jury. My bad!

Edge · Oct 21, 2018

Carolina Reaper said:
I didnt realize I wasn't on a discussion forum giving an opinion and not on a jury. My bad!

I don't see what would be the difference here to be honest.

Carolina Reaper · Oct 21, 2018

Edge said:
I don't see what would be the difference here to be honest.

Yes, I assumed you didn't.

Deleted member 27771 · Oct 21, 2018

Watched it.

Still feels like a counter doc could be made framing all evidence perfectly against him that would have everyone saying he is totally guilty.

It's like people can't understand they are watching something specifically made to try and throw doubt into the mix. Reminds me of conspiracy YouTube videos.

Deleted member 268 · Oct 21, 2018

I'm shocked this hasn't gotten as much press.

Did season 2 not review well?

MrS · Oct 21, 2018

I guess Strang and Buting aren't bae anymore?

matimeo · Oct 21, 2018

I still cannot believe Brendan's confession was not thrown out. It's so clearly coerced, he's a minor with no representation in the room, and has a mental disability.

The only explanation is they know that would give Avery a strong case and no one wants to let that happen and have to go thru all the mistakes that were made.

VaporSnake · Oct 21, 2018

Lower_Frequency said:
Watched it.

Still feels like a counter doc could be made framing all evidence perfectly against him that would have everyone saying he is totally guilty.

It's like people can't understand they are watching something specifically made to try and throw doubt into the mix. Reminds me of conspiracy YouTube videos.

Same here, seeing people go "Wow S2 was great, he's definitely innocent!" is kind of disturbing.

The same kind of disturbing as when an acquaintance or a loved one links you a 9/11 conspiracy video and then speaks about how clearly they finally see things.

Edge · Oct 21, 2018

Carolina Reaper said:
Yes, I assumed you didn't.

So your opinion would be different, your text even assume, better? if you were in the jury? Sorry but, what? Don't really understand what do you want to tell me with that first answer.
Also, "Motherfucker, rott in prison" said everything it could.

Erigu · Oct 21, 2018

VaporSnake said:
Same here, seeing people go "Wow S2 was great, he's definitely innocent!" is kind of disturbing.
The same kind of disturbing as when an acquaintance or a loved one links you a 9/11 conspiracy video and then speaks about how clearly they finally see things.

One side has arguments that are clearly more compelling / harder to debunk than the other one. It's that simple.

RedMercury · Oct 21, 2018

chadskin said:
Avery's new lawyer is made for TV, like you couldn't have cast a better character if you wanted to.

I've only watched the first 2 episodes but you mean the woman? I like her a lot, and even though she's much older than me and could be my mother I find her really attractive. It's not just her looks, just the way she carries herself and being willing to go to such lengths to help another person and fight for something, even if I believe the guy did it.

RedMercury · Oct 21, 2018

Rumblebones said:
I'm shocked this hasn't gotten as much press.

Did season 2 not review well?

Well I think people already know the outcome, we know he tried to appeal or whatever and was denied, this season was shot a long time ago, it's not new news.

skeezx · Oct 21, 2018

Rumblebones said:
I'm shocked this hasn't gotten as much press.

Did season 2 not review well?

well thing is it's really not a "season 2" but rather a follow up on the case after becoming 'famous'.

story is more or less already told even if it is technically ongoing, i doubt the show will ever be a big deal again unless there's more crazy curveballs

Zem · Oct 21, 2018

Michael F. Assbender said:
Haven't had a chance to watch S2 yet, but do they address the fact that the bullet with her DNA was definitely fired from Steven's gun?

The bullet stuff is in episode 7 iirc.

Also people comparing sound forensic testing that is carried out by Zellner to some nut jobs 9/11 conspiracy on YouTube is just so dumb it hurts.

Deleted member 8257 · Oct 21, 2018

If Avery was guilty why is he so fucking enthusiastic about forensic science and stuff like brain fingerprinting, which Zellner told him was a top CIA/FBI/NSA technique to find out what you know? These are white trailer trash simpletons, not Danny Ocean from Ocean's 11. If you believe Avery is actually a genius mastermind who wiped off all forensic evidence from every single object in his rusty garage but conspicuously left some in terribly obvious places - and is now playing a long con (even against powerhouse attorneys like Zellner), then that makes you closer to a 9.11 conspiracy nutter than believing he and his family are bunch of village idiots who got framed by people in power.

Carolina Reaper · Oct 21, 2018

Edge said:
So your opinion would be different, your text even assume, better? if you were in the jury? Sorry but, what? Don't really understand what do you want to tell me with that first answer.
Also, "Motherfucker, rott in prison" said everything it could.

Yes I'd actually approach this differently if I was on a jury. As would most people. Again, discussion forums are not a court of law. People give hot takes. That can't be news to you.

Deleted member 5167 · Oct 21, 2018

RustyNails said:
If Avery was guilty why is he so fucking enthusiastic about forensic science and stuff like brain fingerprinting, which Zellner told him was a top CIA/FBI/NSA technique to find out what you know? These are white trailer trash simpletons, not Danny Ocean from Ocean's 11. If you believe Avery is actually a genius mastermind who wiped off all forensic evidence from every single object in his rusty garage but conspicuously left some in terribly obvious places - and is now playing a long con (even against powerhouse attorneys like Zellner), then that makes you closer to a 9.11 conspiracy nutter than believing he and his family are bunch of village idiots who got framed by people in power.

Pretty much this.
Even excluding the whole "dude was wrongfully imprisoned for over a decade thanks to police burying exculpatory evidence and some of the people who were responsible for that and who were going to be held personally liable for damages because what they did went so far beyond just doing a shit job that insurance would not protect them are also the exact same people that even though they were ordered not to even be present at the investigation were ones who found critical evidence that nobody else managed to" aspect.

Dalek · Oct 21, 2018

The people who believe without a shadow of a doubt that Avery is guilty do believe he's both a simpleton and a criminal and forensic mastermind.

Deleted member 8257 · Oct 21, 2018

NYR said:
And I'll add that a lot of people had high expectations for the supposedly undefeated exoneration attorney who took Avery's case after watching MaM. She had promised a "tsunami of new evidence" but ended up presenting shit like blow-up doll blood spatter "experiments" performed in her parking garage, cringy re-enactment videos, some MAGA chud burning a phone and not smelling anything, and "brain-fingerprinting."

EDIT: To add the MAGA chud.

I'll address couple of points:

1. Mannequins: Zellner has done this multiple times. She has been doing the same thing for decades and if you don't know why experimentation is part of forensic science, then you're misinformed.
2. The point of brain-fingerprinting (which Zellner admits may or may not be admissible in court) is to show Avery's willingness to cooperate with anything and anyone to get to the truth. Guilty people do not act this way, especially the ones who are uneducated. Just look at Brett Kavanaugh, who refused a simple lie detector test with the FBI because he knew he was guilty as all hell.

Yankee Ruin X · Oct 21, 2018

Just finished season 2 and wow. Last season had me on the fence of did he didn't he. This season though they are 100% innocent.

The bullet evidence having no bone fragments at all or blood is a huge thing if it supposedly passed straight through her skull.

The cell phone tower picking her up later in the day miles away from Avery's residence

The fire experts proving a body could not have been burnt in the fire pit

Bobby looks extremely suspect with what was found on his computer that the prosecution left out as it ruined their case against Steven

The blood "flakes" were obviously planted in the car

The witness that saw the Rav 4 in a different location and reported it to the dodgy officer

The dogs taking them to a completely different location.

The "dna" on the hood latch

Even in Season 1 Brendan's testimony should have never been used as it was obviously forced from the officers directing him to give them the answers they wanted. How the hell can they say that they handcuffed her to the bed, raped her, stabbed her in the stomach, slit her throat and then taken her into the garage and shot her in the head and there not be her blood/dna anywhere in the trailer or garage apart from the single bullet.

Making A Murderer: Part 2 official trailer - 10/19

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