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Wollan

Wollan

Mostly Positive
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
Norway but living in France
The World Finals is coming up later this year. All ten participants from today's European finals will participate in that as well.
Maybe PlayStation will hype that up properly having let this regional battle just been organically promoted.

edit: Kazunori Yamauchi on stage! Handing out prize.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,957
Germany
The Tyre model in the events are different from the game. To my understanding the only thing yet to be simulated is Tyre temperature. Only a fool would pass up the opportunity to compete in an FIA Championship because the game is not at the top of the sim world. Anyways, these guys are the best. Some of them do play other top Sims. I also doubt the top sim players can come and beat them, certainly not people like lightning and akagi and Igor and other top drivers.
I'm not saying they're necessarily better, but probably at the same level but with much more experience. And you have to see that these are all adults with jobs that play racing sims as a serious hobby, but a hobby for fun nontheless. If Playstation says you need to buy another wheel and pedals to play a game you're constantly annoyed with and not having fun, then why would they play it?
In McLaren's World's Fastest Gamer you could qualify in all sorts of games, but in the end it were all well known sim racers from iRacing and rFactor at the top and those are the games you can see real race drivers play without being paid to do so.
 
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Wollan

Wollan

Mostly Positive
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
Norway but living in France
Americas Final is next on the agenda. World Finals will be in November.

Dp9s875WsAEAAaT.jpg:large
 

Deleted member 8408

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
Great battles, comentators and graphics.

With that tire model and limitations on only playstation 4 licensed wheels, we'll never see the real best of the best in this, just a subset.

Blame the fact that the guys that run the likes of iRacing, AC and RFactor 2 don't take it as seriously as this. I exclude Raceroom from that list because they do make an effort but nobody really tunes in when the events happen:


(they also only do the livestreams in German which immediately limits the audience)

Hopefully they all see this and step things up (I think Kunos are aiming to make big strides in this area with ACC because they poached a couple of guys who helped implement this stuff for GT Sport). There's clearly an audience but the presentation side of things needs to be taken seriously for people who are not necessarily "hardcore" to remain engaged when watching stuff like this.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,957
Germany
Blame the fact that the guys that run the likes of iRacing, AC and RFactor 2 don't take it as seriously as this. I exclude Raceroom from that list because they do make an effort but nobody really tunes in when the events happen.

Hopefully they see this and step things up (I think Kunos are aiming to make big strides in this area with ACC because they poached a couple of guys who helped implement this stuff for GT Sport). There's clearly an audience but the presentation side of things needs to be taken seriously for people who are not necessarily "hardcore" to remain engaged when watching stuff like this.
iRacing has done streaming in association with the ADAC at the SimRacing Expo, it was kinda ok, they could need better commentators. What we've seen here (edit: with GTS) on the commentator side was better than what most real world racing series get.
rFactor 2 tried to do streams with Formula E drivers before the events playing amongst themselves and sim racers as well. Terrible events that nobody took seriously and that looked like a me from 2006 on the graphics side, the tracks looked baaad.
What I'm saying is, they are trying but they're really small businesses compared to what GT can do.

I'm hoping for some good ACC stuff as well, the real drivers seemed to be up for engaging with it so far.
 

Daverytimes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,108
I'm not saying they're necessarily better, but probably at the same level but with much more experience. And you have to see that these are all adults with jobs that play racing sims as a serious hobby, but a hobby for fun nontheless. If Playstation says you need to buy another wheel and pedals to play a game you're constantly annoyed with and not having fun, then why would they play it?
In McLaren's World's Fastest Gamer you could qualify in all sorts of games, but in the end it were all well known sim racers from iRacing and rFactor at the top and those are the games you can see real race drivers play without being paid to do so.

Maybe am misunderstanding you but all those playing in that stage today were adults with jobs (some with good paying jobs). Most of them have responsibilities. They also play the game as a serious hobby. I undeestand it's hard to switch over to a console and have to reinvest into another wheel and rig setup, so yea, that would put off some fast guys. Considering however how serious the event is becoming I feel it's an investment someone who has already spent countless thousands on rigs and subscriptions can afford to make.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,957
Germany
Maybe am misunderstanding you but all those playing in that stage today were adults with jobs (some with good paying jobs). Most of them have responsibilities. They also play the game as a serious hobby. I undeestand it's hard to switch over to a console and have to reinvest into another wheel and rig setup, so yea, that would put off some fast guys. Considering however how serious the event is becoming I feel it's an investment someone who has already spent countless thousands on rigs and subscriptions can afford to make.
Invest in an inferior setup in most cases. Also they can't use their triple screens and VR, they can't change the FOV and the physics are far inferior on every level, which they get reminded on by the FFB every single second of gameplay. I know you'll disagree with me or choose to think that I just hate GT, that's fine. On my end, I choose to think that you'd understand me and those sim racers after having felt how an USF2000 for example feels on a high end wheel in rFactor 2.
 

Daverytimes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,108
Invest in an inferior setup in most cases. Also they can't use their triple screens and VR, they can't change the FOV and the physics are far inferior on every level, which they get reminded on by the FFB every single second of gameplay. I know you'll disagree with me or choose to think that I just hate GT, that's fine. On my end, I choose to think that you'd understand me and those sim racers after having felt how an USF2000 for example feels on a high end wheel in rFactor 2.

I don't think you hate the game, however, there is a certain amount of snobbery going on, not just by you, but the PC Sim racing crowd in general. That snobbery is hurting the viability of Sim racing as a legitimate big ESports. Statements like "Invest in an inferior setup in most cases........these they can't change the FOV and the physics are far inferior on every level" just demonstrates what i said. Yes, GT is not Rfactor 2, doubt anyone is claiming that. What exactly should it be simulating to bring our royal highnesses to the game? would actually like to know.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,957
Germany
I don't think you hate the game, however, there is a certain amount of snobbery going on, not just by you, but the PC Sim racing crowd in general. That snobbery is hurting the viability of Sim racing as a legitimate big ESports. Statements like "Invest in an inferior setup in most cases........these they can't change the FOV and the physics are far inferior on every level" just demonstrates what i said. Yes, GT is not Rfactor 2, doubt anyone is claiming that. What exactly should it be simulating to bring our royal highnesses to the game? would actually like to know.
I'm reading my own words and you are right that I'm sounding "snobbery" and I should try harder to not come off that way (me and, as you said, many other sim racers as well).

About what it should be simulating. It's really not just "if they'd just do this and that better", it's really everything. GT is not simulating suspensions from individual geometry and if they did, they wouldn't have a modern tire model to simulate the effects of dynamic toe and camber. Dampers don't seem to be simulated on something related to modern damper curves, springs can be set to suuper hard in the game, but when you hit a curb, they're still really soft and forgiving. The allowed amount of travel of the wheel is huge in all cars, not seeming to simulate hard bump stops. I haven't really started, but I should stop here, because I can't think of a single technical thing that is simulated on a competitive level with current PC sims in GTS (I say current, but really rFactor 1 and Live for Speed did this a loong time ago). Some of it is hard to call simulation, the steering for example is the same game mechanic for all cars, there is no actual simulation of the steering levers and geometry.
I'm not a pro by any standard, but I imagine if a guy that has played and loved iRacing for years were to try GTS on a somewhat serious and competitive level, he'd get understeer and think "that's wrong, the brake balance here is understeery no matter what setting, that's some accessibility anti-spin bullshit", he'd spin and think "this crappy tire model loses 100% of lateral grip once the rear tires spin, who thought this was realistic" and be annoyed by the game, he probably wouldn't think "damn, I need to get better at this".

Trying to sound less snobby again, there are sims like pCARS1 that check all the "complex simulation" boxes, but doing a poor job in most cases - trying, but missing hard. GT on the other hand is just not really trying (Polyphony could probably make a better sim than the guys making iRacing, but they don't want to). They're making a realistic racing game that everyone with a PS4 can try and enjoy, not a complex real time vehicle simulation. And I think - despite my gripes with the (really bad, sorry) tire model - Polyphony is doing a good job with this game. Thanks to the rating system, the racing is fun and close and with the motion controls it plays better with a controller than any other racing game that is going for realism at the moment.

And on the competition level: If you're fast, then you're fast. Let the best GT racers play some iRacing and they'll be crushing 99.9% of the competition in no time, same would be the case taking the top iRacers and rFactor enthusiasts to compete in GTS. The real fast guys are usually fast across the board, even in Driveclub, PGR and Mario Kart they'd kick ass. Give them a real race car and they'll be doing very well there too (which many of course have already done).
 

Apex88

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,428
I don't watch any e-sports but have been tuned into these FIA events since the Asia Finals a few weeks back.

The racing is simply outstanding, production values are top class (and improving with each event), while the commentators from each nation are the best of the best. Interestingly they include guys from the PC scene, real drivers, and GT specialists.

Listening to Jimmy Broadbent he says they now get full briefing documents & presentation, full rehearsals. And importantly PD/Sony are listening too, and implementing, feedback.

It's been good to see the GT community get onboard and embrace these FIA events. They seem to be growing in profile & popularity.
 

Riderz1337

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
Figured I'd bump this rather than make a new thread, the finals are on right now.

Some excellent racing.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,356
Shoot, thank you for the bump, Riderz. I had forgotten this was up today.

If anyone else needs the YouTube link to the live event, here ya go:



Whoever's running their sound-board is an artist.
 

Roy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,471
I've been watching and a lot of the overtaking has been dirty. I don't blame the drivers because it's their job to do everything they can: The stewards have been allowing them to get away with murder.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,957
Germany
Even at full throttle that Nissan GT3 wouldn't have lost traction there at turn 2. That tire model man...

Also wish they'd show the in-game hud for throttle, brake and steering that also shows how much the driving aids are interfering.
 

Gerwant

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,041
Wow, what a finish! Fight for 2nd and 3rd place was something else. Sucks for Nissan.
Tomorrow finals will be fun :)
 

JamesQuall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
749
Caught the last bit of that. Wow. Exciting stuff. Probably convinced me to pick up GT in the coming week.
 

Jeffram

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,924
Great race.

Funny aside, I had the semis on yesterday and my girlfriend had no idea it was a video game. It wasn't till they did the pip of the drivers in the arena did she say "wait.. what."
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,340
Didn't even know you could run out of fuel in this game.

When you pit you select which tires you want and how much fuel you want. Toward the end of the race you want to have a low amount of fuel because it makes your car lighter and you gain speed. Of course you've got to be careful that what you saw doesn't happen and you don't actually have enough fuel to finish the race properly.
 

nolifebr

Banned
Sep 1, 2018
11,465
Curitiba/BR
Well, after that race, I was convinced that these championships should at least be nominated as Best Esports Event on the TGA.

The production value is INSANE.
 

WetWaffle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,601
When you pit you select which tires you want and how much fuel you want. Toward the end of the race you want to have a low amount of fuel because it makes your car lighter and you gain speed. Of course you've got to be careful that what you saw doesn't happen and you don't actually have enough fuel to finish the race properly.
You can control how much fuel you take in during pit stops. The Nissan team opted for to cut the refueling short to save time and run just a little bit lighter. They ended up burning more than they planned.
I should probably mention I didn't know there were pit stops either. I've mostly been in the driving school, single races and a few online races in the beta. In any case, this is way more exciting than I thought it'd be, definetly coming back after that spider man dlc launches
 

Jeffram

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,924
Well, after that race, I was convinced that these championships should at least be nominated as Best Esports Event on the TGA.

The production value is INSANE.
Agreed. Only reason I can see them knocking it, is it's aping real life racing instead of being something entirely unique to gaming.
 

Ænima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,513
Portugal
Very impressive transmition and production. Made it really good and enjoyable to watch.
The overtaking camera on top of a car focusing in the car overtaking was amazing.
 

TKM

Member
Oct 28, 2017
540
Manufacturer's Cup yesterday was a great production. Looking forward to the finals today.