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Easy Allies |OT2| Love & Reset

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Ryan Bates

Ryan Bates

Member
Jun 21, 2018
28
Servbot24 said:
they should and they did

and then they did it again

and again

and some more today
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I don't think people are just beating a dead horse. Many people expressed a shared sentiment about the review, then Damiani called them all unintelligent and seemingly dismissed any criticism. Now people are responding to that.

Maybe everyone should just move on, but also maybe Damiani shouldn't have said what he said.
 
Joqu

Joqu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,030
The Waffle Kingdom
I only made one post about the review when it got dropped so I think I've been fine, I just think it's a weird review. And I am surprised they never ended up changing the YouTube title to clarify it's a platform specific review before you watch the video, I think that would have helped quite a bit.

But I just gotta say I heard Damiani's comments live on stream (and you might notice I didn't bring them up here to avoid any drama :/) and I definitely thought they were rather uncalled for, if not a bit hurtful coming from one of the allies. I absolutely want to move on, the review itself wasn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things! But certainly Damiani's reaction didn't help things. It's just a rather unprofessional way of handling criticism.

Silencio said:
SvdbtW9.gif
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Anyway, I also want to say this is a high quality gif.
 

Glory

Alt-Account
Banned
Oct 9, 2018
187
MrMette said:
That's a well thought-out take which I more-or-less agree with.

I have never seen that mentality with EZA and I support them through patreon since day one. I really don't know what you are talking about as they do hear criticism and usually respond to it through CoJ or so. That doesn't mean they should always listen to it. Maybe EZA isn't for you if you think it's so bad.

Nobody says you can't disagree with some of their decisions or that you have to like everythin they produce (I have disagreed with some things as well and not everything they do is my cup of tea), but it's more the way you say those things that sounds like you aren't a fan at all. You are bashing on Damiani for a couple of pages now and it's rather pathetic. it all sounds to me like you are pushing an agenda rather than being concerned with EZA. They are nothing with your criticism if it isn't contructive. It won't help them become better and it just makes you look like an ass.
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Love it or leave is gate-keeping. You're better than that.

The agenda accusation is straight up baffling. It's like saying people complaining about crunch at Rockstar are pushing an "agenda". I can say 100 hour crunch hours can suck while still maintaining excitement for the game. The road you have to cross to understand my perspective is I can think all of these things and still enjoy most of their output. I enjoy Tabletop. I enjoy group streams. Kyle, Ben's Damiani's streams are great. Your advice about my tone is well-taken, but when Damiani is calling viewers "not smart", or Nintendo "idiots", it becomes justified for people to incorporate a similar language and tone.

None of this means Damiani is a bad person. I happen to think that he's a very good guy who becomes brash and defensive in the face of criticism. I think he loves what he loves and I don't think he should have to change. All my posts were about 1) analyzing things I considered weaknesses about him as a media personality 2) and then accepting him for what I think he is. The analysis doesn't mean I think he should change because my first paragraph in this thread, as have all my othere posts, are all written under the assumption that he will never change, but the analysis itself isn't intended to be "bashing" as you have insinuated. It's like having a friend that doesn't tip. I think argue till I'm blue in the face that I think it's ethically wrong, but that doesn't mean I hate my friend.

But there's a lot of people in this community, and I want to be clear that this doesn't include you, because you have been very fair in your overall analysis of the overall situation, that hand wave away all criticism whatsoever. That was the crux of my last post. It was constructive criticism aimed at members of the community who literally don't want any criticism to be posted on this thread and will A) either act like what we're talking about is hot air, or B) post other things as quickly as possible to push the discussion out of sight. It's a very specific group of fans that doesn't include you, and those fans need to come to grips with the fact that negative discussion about EZA is still legitimate discussion and that criticism doesn't have to be constructive. And personally, a discussion about whether criticism must be constructive is far more interesting for me to have with this community than a discussion about Damiani and Starlink who I think most of us have talked to death about.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/why-i-dislike-the-true-fan-mentality.75538/




 
Blackleg-sanji1

Blackleg-sanji1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,663
As a non regular everytime I come in here by chance y'all arguing about what one of them did lol. Maybe it's my bad luck I can't imagine a eza thread not being jolly 90% of the time
 

Deleted member 5086

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,571
Axass said:
My two cents.

The Starlink review was actually ok, it's just that Damiani focused it too much on one aspect that happens to be platform exclusive and not as meaty as it would appear to be from the review. He probably did this instinctively without much thought, also due to Ubisoft itself botching the marketing and basically making it seem like a Nintendo-only fanfictiony Star Fox game themselves; I guess it's because by the time the game went gold, the toys-to-life train had long departed the station and already crashed and burned, so they had to reconsider their advertisement strategy.

Some people leveraged a fair criticism, because due to the weird focus this is definitely on the lower tier of EZA's reviews, not talking about quality, but as far as information completeness goes it is. Others used the opportunity to shit on Damiani, because he has long had a target on his back due to some past events. So, there were fair opinions and exaggerated ones. Some people got needlessly overprotective, dismissing not only the hot takes, but even the fair criticism, because apparently we can't discern one from the other. Damiani was one of those, he definitely spoke out of line with his reply and offended both the people crapping on him and the honest people just giving their fair opinions.

That's it, we're all at fault, me, you, Damiani. Let's move on and not overreact one way ("Damiani is a terrible person, I want him out of EZA") or the other ("#IstandWithDamiani, it's a non-issue").
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This is pretty much where I stand on it. When I watched the review, while I found it enjoyable enough, the amount of focus on the Star Fox aspect was a surprise. So although I didn't give it that much thought at first, I do understand the critique, and think there have been some valid and constructive criticisms given there.

Unfortunately in times like these, you will also get some people being hyperbolic for one reason or another, too (not liking Damiani, feeling as if their platform of choice was neglected etc). I'm sure the amount of backlash took a lot of people by surprise. I think Damiani's frustration (and that of the fans who didn't see an issue with the review) is understandable from that point of view, but it's important to not lump everyone into the same box, and I wish he had expressed himself a bit better.

That goes both ways, of course. It's perfectly fine to think this isn't a big deal, and that doesn't make you a blind fan or anything like that. It isn't going to hold the same importance to everyone, and that's fine.
 
MrMette

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
Belgium
Glory said:
Love it or leave is gate-keeping. You're better than that.

The agenda accusation is straight up baffling. It's like saying people complaining about crunch at Rockstar are pushing an "agenda". I can say 100 hour crunch hours can suck while still maintaining excitement for the game. The road you have to cross to understand my perspective is I can think all of these things and still enjoy most of their output. I enjoy Tabletop. I enjoy group streams. Kyle, Ben's Damiani's streams are great. Your advice about my tone is well-taken, but when Damiani is calling viewers "not smart", or Nintendo "idiots", it becomes justified for people to incorporate a similar language and tone.

None of this means Damiani is a bad person. I happen to think that he's a very good guy who becomes brash and defensive in the face of criticism. I think he loves what he loves and I don't think he should have to change. All my posts were about 1) analyzing things I considered weaknesses about him as a media personality 2) and then accepting him for what I think he is. The analysis doesn't mean I think he should change because my first paragraph in this thread, as have all my othere posts, are all written under the assumption that he will never change, but the analysis itself isn't intended to be "bashing" as you have insinuated. It's like having a friend that doesn't tip. I think argue till I'm blue in the face that I think it's ethically wrong, but that doesn't mean I hate my friend.

But there's a lot of people in this community, and I want to be clear that this doesn't include you, because you have been very fair in your overall analysis of the overall situation, that hand wave away all criticism whatsoever. That was the crux of my last post. It was constructive criticism aimed at members of the community who literally don't want any criticism to be posted on this thread and will A) either act like what we're talking about is hot air, or B) post other things as quickly as possible to push the discussion out of sight. It's a very specific group of fans that doesn't include you, and those fans need to come to grips with the fact that negative discussion about EZA is still legitimate discussion and that criticism doesn't have to be constructive. And personally, a discussion about whether criticism must be constructive is far more interesting for me to have with this community than a discussion about Damiani and Starlink who I think most of us have talked to death about.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/why-i-dislike-the-true-fan-mentality.75538/
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I didn't want to come over that you should leave the EZA community (I don't have anything to say about what you like or what you watch). It's great that you like the content and I don't have a problem with people criticizing specific things about EZA, but it looked like you were in attackmode and that usually doesn't go over well with me (which possibly made me go in attackmode as well).
It looked to me like you were going on an anti-Damiani tirade for the last couple of pages and not because of this review, but for whatever other reason. That's why I called it an agenda. I apologize if that wasn't the case. I do understand that Damiani's tone in that last video (which I didn't still didn't watch actually) was uncalled for (I agree with that from what I have read), but you can't criticize him on something and do the same thing without it looking weird on you as well.

I guess I misinterpreted you posts/intentions about Damiani. I read it as an attack.

As far as the criticism on EZA goes. Sure, some people don't like to read criticism (it's a human thing, a lot of people have a tough time reading and/or handling critique on themselves or something they like), but I honestly feel like it depends on how you frame it. It shows to me that they are invested in EZA.
I have been critical on here (and the previous forum) and have been in discussions with a couple of people about things we weren't agreeing on and I don't think (and I hope) it never felt to people that I was attacking people. I always try to understand how other people think and it's imo and useful skill to be able to do so. I personally still feel that criticism to something you like/love is usually constructive as you want to make it better. Criticism to just criticize is to me for something you want to break down and it usually only destructs instead of help the people you criticize. I honestly can't remember that many instances where I had people coming after me (except for something about Smash once and others defended me) even though I have disagreed with other people on here as well.

People can make mistakes, people can think differently. We are all one community and I would expect (most) people hanging out on here to like at least some of EZA's output.
I understand that some people don't like criticism and I have had times where it sucked to read this thread on something I wasn't invested in as well while people kept bringing it up. It will die down after a while and in the end all of it is usually not that big of a deal.
 
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antennastoheaven

antennastoheaven

Member
Oct 26, 2017
912
Axass said:
My two cents.

The Starlink review was actually ok, it's just that Damiani focused it too much on one aspect that happens to be platform exclusive and not as meaty as it would appear to be from the review. He probably did this instinctively without much thought, also due to Ubisoft itself botching the marketing and basically making it seem like a Nintendo-only fanfictiony Star Fox game themselves; I guess it's because by the time the game went gold, the toys-to-life train had long departed the station and already crashed and burned, so they had to reconsider their advertisement strategy.

Some people leveraged a fair criticism, because due to the weird focus this is definitely on the lower tier of EZA's reviews, not talking about quality, but as far as information completeness goes it is. Others used the opportunity to shit on Damiani, because he has long had a target on his back due to some past events. So, there were fair opinions and exaggerated ones. Some people got needlessly overprotective, dismissing not only the hot takes, but even the fair criticism, because apparently we can't discern one from the other. Damiani was one of those, he definitely spoke out of line with his reply and offended both the people crapping on him and the honest people just giving their fair opinions.

That's it, we're all at fault, me, you, Damiani. Let's move on and not overreact one way ("Damiani is a terrible person, I want him out of EZA") or the other ("#IstandWithDamiani, it's a non-issue").
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I 100% agree.

What hurts is how unnecessary everything about this was. No one was demanding a Starlink review and Damiani didn't need to respond to the criticism in any way.

It's far from a dealbreaker for me but, oh well, it happens.
 
Keith Stat

Keith Stat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,258
While I have basically no interest in Starlink nor have I really followed any news about it other than seeing its reveal, I caught up on some EZA yesterday and watched its review (I watch all the reviews, even games I have no interest in). At the end of the review, basically I thought it was kind of an odd review and probably would have been better served being a segment on either Frame Trap/Friend Code or a Don't Skip. Still, overall, to put it in to EZA terms, the controversy wasn't a "big whoop" and would have been largely forgotten in days.

But, unfortunately, Damiani is the one who escalated things with his quotes from his Twitch playthrough. While there certainly are trolls and assholes who will pounce on the slightest bit of drama to lay out their long laundry list of supposed beef with him, there are well-meaning people who had constructive criticism or respectfully disagreed with his review. It also would have been completely fine for Damiani to respond to those people and simply say he sticks by his review. There's a civil way to go about this. Instead, lumping in anyone who questioned the review as not being "intelligent" enough or him needing to "dumb things" down is the least tactful way to go about this. Once again to relate it back to EZA terms, he threw gasoline on a non-situation.

EZA is becoming a large(r) community and one of the byproducts of that, like any other community, is that a segment will latch on to drama. It's dumb and it's petty, but that is the internet. For every 99 nice things someone says about them, there will be one who won't say something nice and it's human nature to take that to heart and ignore the overwhelming majority. If you are going to respond to that minority, you just gotta do better than what Damiani just did. Saying all that, don't think this is really all that big of a deal and will be largely forgotten by the time Red Dead comes out.
 

Glory

Alt-Account
Banned
Oct 9, 2018
187
MrMette said:
I didn't want to come over that you should leave the EZA community (I don't have anything to say about what you like or what you watch). It's great that you like the content and I don't have a problem with people criticizing specific things about EZA, but it looked like you were in attackmode and that usually doesn't go over well with me (which possibly made me go in attackmode as well).
It looked to me like you were going on an anti-Damiani tirade for the last couple of pages and not because of this review, but for whatever other reason. That's why I called it an agenda. I apologize if that wasn't the case. I do understand that Damiani's tone in that last video (which I didn't still didn't watch actually) was uncalled for (I agree with that from what I have read), but you can't criticize him on something and do the same thing without it looking weird on you as well.

I guess I misinterpreted you posts/intentions about Damiani. I read it as an attack.

As far as the criticism on EZA goes. Sure, some people don't like to read criticism (it's a human thing, a lot of people have a tough time reading and/or handling critique on themselves or something they like), but I honestly feel like it depends on how you frame it. It shows to me that they are invested in EZA.
I have been critical on here (and the previous forum) and have been in discussions with a couple of people about things we weren't agreeing on and I don't think (and I hope) it never felt to people that I was attacking people. I always try to understand how other people think and it's imo and useful skill to be able to do so. I personally still feel that criticism to something you like/love is usually constructive as you want to make it better. Criticism to just criticize is to me for something you want to break down and it usually only destructs instead of help the people you criticize. I honestly can't remember that many instances where I had people coming after me (except for something about Smash once and others defended me) even though I have disagreed with other people on here as well.

People can make mistakes, people can think differently. We are all one community and I would expect (most) people hanging out on here to like at least some of EZA's output.
I understand that some people don't like criticism and I have had times where it sucked to read this thread on something I wasn't invested in as well while people kept bringing it up. It will die down after a while and in the end all of it is usually not that big of a deal.
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Ah! That makes a lot of sense. I guess it would be weird me chastising Damiani for a type of behavior when I incorporate myself. I guess I come from a mindset that if a person wants to normalize a certain tone, then that tone is on the table for everyone to use. And if we look at the way Damiani criticizes companies, individuals, and developers, then that way becomes legitimate for us to criticize EZA as well. This is at odds some members of this community who encourage the "love & respect" tagline when its convenient and hoot and holler whenever there's an EZA rant (ex. Brandon going off on EA for shutting down Visceral, Damiani calling Nintendo "idiots"), but if someone in the community adopts those same style of rants towards EZA, it becomes an issue of "constructive criticism only please". It definitely gets an eye-roll out of me.

Personally, I think Damiani should have given more of a heads-up of what he was going for with his review. That would have immediately set expectations and none of this would be an issue. "Hey guys, Reviewing Star Link from the perspective of a Star Fox fan! Stay tuned!" That's all people would have needed. So there's the constructive criticism. That said, I'm 99% percent this was a Damiani troll. :D

AjTMECA.gif
 
Urbannomad123

Urbannomad123

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
347
Rugby, England
Caught the start of Cup of Jones while at work and it seems the search for a studio has had a hard reset. Hopefully the new real estate agent can work some magic (the original one went silent on them). Crossing my fingers that the studio becomes a reality soon.
 
jondgc

jondgc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,208
Urbannomad123 said:
Caught the start of Cup of Jones while at work and it seems the search for a studio has had a hard reset. Hopefully the new real estate agent can work some magic (the original one went silent on them). Crossing my fingers that the studio becomes a reality soon.
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Going to have to wait for the audio version this week - not sure what's up with the Youtube archive? Looks like it's missing about 40 minutes. Either way, definitely crossing my fingers. One of the perils of tying the studio to a Patreon goal is exactly this scenario - it takes a lot of time. Just hopeful the vast majority of Patrons understand how long it could be and are willing to withstand a few months with minimal perceivable progress.
 
RugoUniverse

RugoUniverse

Member
May 15, 2018
1,006
jondgc said:
Going to have to wait for the audio version this week - not sure what's up with the Youtube archive? Looks like it's missing about 40 minutes. Either way, definitely crossing my fingers. One of the perils of tying the studio to a Patreon goal is exactly this scenario - it takes a lot of time. Just hopeful the vast majority of Patrons understand how long it could be and are willing to withstand a few months with minimal perceivable progress.
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It always takes a couple hours until you can watch the whole video due to processing on YouTube.
 
antennastoheaven

antennastoheaven

Member
Oct 26, 2017
912
jondgc said:
Going to have to wait for the audio version this week - not sure what's up with the Youtube archive? Looks like it's missing about 40 minutes. Either way, definitely crossing my fingers. One of the perils of tying the studio to a Patreon goal is exactly this scenario - it takes a lot of time. Just hopeful the vast majority of Patrons understand how long it could be and are willing to withstand a few months with minimal perceivable progress.
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I really think they should highlight how they're saving the studio goal money. That's something that I wish they did earlier. Even if it's unfortunate that they're not getting the studio soon at least each month they're increasing their safety net and investment for the move.

If they make this clear I think this will alleviate the lack of substantial progress for patrons.
 
TheDarkKnight

TheDarkKnight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,530
I've been thinking this for a while but I really appreciate all the time and effort the L&R submitters put into those games. Very creative ideas that aren't something you quickly put together

How did I not realize Halo had so many ridiculous names?
 
MrMette

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
Belgium
jondgc said:
Going to have to wait for the audio version this week - not sure what's up with the Youtube archive? Looks like it's missing about 40 minutes. Either way, definitely crossing my fingers. One of the perils of tying the studio to a Patreon goal is exactly this scenario - it takes a lot of time. Just hopeful the vast majority of Patrons understand how long it could be and are willing to withstand a few months with minimal perceivable progress.
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It sometimes takes a lot of time before it's completely up. It only happens when Jones goes over 2 hours. Still not sure why that happens, but it seems that youtube doesn't immediately processes a live stream of 2+ hours. If CoJ is under 2 hours it shows half a minute after it ends without missing parts. It sometimes takes less time than other times to completely show. I started watching over an hour after CoJ ended, but it was still missing 40 minutes. Sometimes it's fine after half an hour.
 
Giever

Giever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,756
These last several posts are reminding me of that bit with the handler telling Blood what to pick in Assassin's Creed Odyssey to have sex.

"If you want to see Kyle's ass and some gifs that look like the Allies are masturbating, go to this thread!" *promptly heads in opposite direction*
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Haven't clicked on the Easy Allies thread in awhile, wonder whats going on in............ ooooo kaaaaay.
 
JayC3

JayC3

bork bork
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
3,857
Hey y'all how's it goin...oh...OH! My goodness, I wonder what would Jones would think of all this?

Cl9RIdX.gif


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Urbannomad123

Urbannomad123

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
347
Rugby, England
Still weird to me that Damiani was hauled over the coals on here for not mentioning split screen co-op in his Starlink review (I get the other complaints though I respectfully disagree) . Gamespot and IGN have posted their reviews since then and neither mention it. This means that of the six reviews I have read, or watched, only one talks about it - albeit very briefly (it works well). Indeed, with another game, the first I heard about Black Ops having a split screen mode was on the EZA group stream and there it was chat that spoke of the quality (framerate dives). Maybe game reviewers only really mention this feature these days if it is front and centre to the game like A Way Out. It seems unfair to single Damiani out here.
 
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