I was at my last job for almost 3 years and it was almost 3 years too long. Money was good though
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Millenial Job Hopping
- Thread starter MrMephistoX
- Start date
I'm 35 so I'm an early Millennial. I've been with the same company for 12+ years, done three different roles within the company at the same site. And if I have my druthers, I'll stay here until I retire.
I was the last cohort to get in on the pension plan at my work, so I have an incentive to stay that most of my generation do not have.
I completely understand job hopping. I think people would like to be loyal and stay at a company, but companies gives very little incentive to do.
401Ks are transferable, most places don't do pensions, and you tend to get a 20%+ increase in base salary for going from company to company.
Not to mention that, thanks to the older generation fucking up the economy in 2008, so many of the Baby Boomer generation stayed in their jobs where they could because they had to recover. That creates a situation where it is hard to have opportunity to move up in your career, so you take whatever opportunity you can get.
Again, I've not done it, but people blaming a generation for doing something that is entirely created by the business environment is disingenuous.
I was the last cohort to get in on the pension plan at my work, so I have an incentive to stay that most of my generation do not have.
I completely understand job hopping. I think people would like to be loyal and stay at a company, but companies gives very little incentive to do.
401Ks are transferable, most places don't do pensions, and you tend to get a 20%+ increase in base salary for going from company to company.
Not to mention that, thanks to the older generation fucking up the economy in 2008, so many of the Baby Boomer generation stayed in their jobs where they could because they had to recover. That creates a situation where it is hard to have opportunity to move up in your career, so you take whatever opportunity you can get.
Again, I've not done it, but people blaming a generation for doing something that is entirely created by the business environment is disingenuous.
It's not uncommon early in anyone's career to make moves. The opportunity to do good work at one job and have something to show for it opens up opportunities to do more/get more at different employers.
I worked a dead end for 5 years, then switched to something for around a year, then just over two years, then a three month stint that didn't turn out to be the right opportunity (or time), so I went back to the employer that I left for that job. Been with them ever since. 38.
I worked a dead end for 5 years, then switched to something for around a year, then just over two years, then a three month stint that didn't turn out to be the right opportunity (or time), so I went back to the employer that I left for that job. Been with them ever since. 38.
I'm 35 and on my third company but already looking to make the next jump. Company moves and promotions equal big salary hikes so every 2 to 3 years I actively look for another company even if it is the same role as I can discuss a higher starting salary then my current one.
The only perk i've seen for staying with a company is 4 weeks vacation after 10+ or so years of service........forget that I'll just tell my next employer that I already get 4 weeks and expect that starting.
The only perk i've seen for staying with a company is 4 weeks vacation after 10+ or so years of service........forget that I'll just tell my next employer that I already get 4 weeks and expect that starting.
The article states that this isn't anything new and that in fact the previous generation job hobbed even more. As a "young Gen X-er and in some lists an old Millenial" I can confirm; the newest and youngest employees have always been the ones the company is the least loyal to. Job hopping has been particularly in young people's best interest for at least a few decades.
If anything what I've noticed is an increased focus on favoring young emplyoees, at least in tech. My company's recruting is insane, and some of the company's I've consulted at have had a dramatic increase in young people in key roles. Go to Microsoft and you'll find 24-26 year old's in senior positions, leads, product managers, that sort of thing. And I'm currently at a big old fortune 50 that isn't a tech company and my "Product Manager" is 25 years old, the other one that left was even younger.
OP
OP
Honestly I wouldn't consider 2-3 years to be disloyal or flaky at all. I'd feel guilty about hopping after just a year and could totally see where that would raise flags with recruiters but 3 years is a long time IMHO.
I got promoted after a year and a half in my current role so it's not like there wasn't growth but my new team has people in my exact rank who've been there for 25 years w zero promotions.
I got promoted after a year and a half in my current role so it's not like there wasn't growth but my new team has people in my exact rank who've been there for 25 years w zero promotions.
i think its a bit hard jumping to different companies when you have a family and need a bit of security. especially if the company you are working for has some decent benefits and incentives. especially for healthcare costs. i seen a lot of friends jump and then realize the grass isnt always greener on the other side. like with culture, management and most likely the work they are doing.
i think the single members jump the most frequently while those with kids/families/dependents stick a bit longer before moving either lattice, ladder or to a whole new company overall. starting over is a pain sometimes. but you know when you need to move on and i dont blame anyone to better their career and pay.
i think the single members jump the most frequently while those with kids/families/dependents stick a bit longer before moving either lattice, ladder or to a whole new company overall. starting over is a pain sometimes. but you know when you need to move on and i dont blame anyone to better their career and pay.
I was at my first job out of college for 3 1/2 years, and probably would have stayed a bit longer if my company didn't lose the contract re-compete. I had a title change, a promotion, and a few raises that together almost doubled my salary during the time that I was there.
My last job increased my salary, but I was only there for about 9 months because of horrible management and communication. I'm hoping to be at my current job for at least two years as long as the work stays interesting and I'm learning. I don't see myself staying with the company longer than that unless they offer more opportunities to build my skills, treat me well, and at the very least decent annual raises for good work. Changing employers every few years helps with bumping up salary, as well as a change so you don't begin to feel like you're stagnating.
My last job increased my salary, but I was only there for about 9 months because of horrible management and communication. I'm hoping to be at my current job for at least two years as long as the work stays interesting and I'm learning. I don't see myself staying with the company longer than that unless they offer more opportunities to build my skills, treat me well, and at the very least decent annual raises for good work. Changing employers every few years helps with bumping up salary, as well as a change so you don't begin to feel like you're stagnating.
I did this in my first job. Got a promotion and raise, and the following month I gave them my two weeks. My last salary included the raise, which felt nice because I was gonna be paid less in the new job (moved because I wanted to get into development and out of testing). To make matters worse, I told my boss I was leaving only 2 days after another team member did the same, so you can bet he was kinda pissed (it also didn't help that he had asked us if anyone else was planning on leaving, and I didn't say anything at the time).
I work in software and have a fairly large role in vetting/interviewing candidates who apply to my company. For our interview process, the only time we look at "job hoppers" with a weary eye is if they're regularly spending less than two years at an organization or have very few notable projects to cite from their tenure.
As a 25 year old millennial myself, I've spent a lot of time trying to convince some of the older lowercase 'c' conservative managers to not be so critical of a candidates "job hopping" history. There are certainly times when it can be excessive but I think our industry is slowly but surely shifting to a collective understanding of what it takes to get a decent raise in 2018.
I've been with my company 2.5 years now and I've moved up a decent amount inside of it but even still I'm considering looking at an adjacent position at another company near me for 2019/2020. If the money isn't going to be where it needs to be in the future then I'm out.
As a 25 year old millennial myself, I've spent a lot of time trying to convince some of the older lowercase 'c' conservative managers to not be so critical of a candidates "job hopping" history. There are certainly times when it can be excessive but I think our industry is slowly but surely shifting to a collective understanding of what it takes to get a decent raise in 2018.
I've been with my company 2.5 years now and I've moved up a decent amount inside of it but even still I'm considering looking at an adjacent position at another company near me for 2019/2020. If the money isn't going to be where it needs to be in the future then I'm out.
Best way to get raises. On my 3rd job in 3 years since finishing Law School, got a substantial raise with each new job, would have taken years to get that big an increase in pay if I stayed at each previous job.
Now that I'm in a union and work for the government I plan to stick around for a long time unless something irresistible comes along. Finally at an earning level that's competitive and I have guaranteed raises and a pension system that in the long run will be more beneficial than anything I can do in private sector unless I was offered a gigantic raise.
* I'm 32
Now that I'm in a union and work for the government I plan to stick around for a long time unless something irresistible comes along. Finally at an earning level that's competitive and I have guaranteed raises and a pension system that in the long run will be more beneficial than anything I can do in private sector unless I was offered a gigantic raise.
* I'm 32
In NYC area, these are the salaries I started and left with:
1st Job: $38,000 raised to $43,000
2nd job: $45,000
3rd job: $60,000 raised to $66,000
4th Job: $115,000
My raises haven't TOUCHED the money that I have made by switching jobs
1st Job: $38,000 raised to $43,000
2nd job: $45,000
3rd job: $60,000 raised to $66,000
4th Job: $115,000
My raises haven't TOUCHED the money that I have made by switching jobs
Job hopping is not a millennial phenomenon. It became far more common with Gen-X.
I'm breaking the norm though, ~13 years working in the professional world, and I've only worked for 2 different employers. I've had ... 4 distinct roles within those employers, but still, just two. Spent 6.5 years at my first, and it's been just over 6.5 years at this one (though I've worked in two distinct divisions). I generally really like the company I work at and I've gotten really aggressive raises over the last few years (8%, 14%, 12% the last 3 years), so I'm not going anywhere... plus I know my work, I'm comfortable, and don't want to upset the applecart.
5% locked-in standard set raise is very out of the ordinary. Most do cost of living increases (1-2%) and then maybe a small performance increase. I mean, it was just 5 years ago that the country was in a recession and most workers weren't getting any raises.
My industry has been very hot the last ~5 years and we've gotten very generous raises to keep up with competition, but even so, the best way to get a raise in most industries is to job hop.
I'm breaking the norm though, ~13 years working in the professional world, and I've only worked for 2 different employers. I've had ... 4 distinct roles within those employers, but still, just two. Spent 6.5 years at my first, and it's been just over 6.5 years at this one (though I've worked in two distinct divisions). I generally really like the company I work at and I've gotten really aggressive raises over the last few years (8%, 14%, 12% the last 3 years), so I'm not going anywhere... plus I know my work, I'm comfortable, and don't want to upset the applecart.
5% locked-in standard set raise is very out of the ordinary. Most do cost of living increases (1-2%) and then maybe a small performance increase. I mean, it was just 5 years ago that the country was in a recession and most workers weren't getting any raises.
My industry has been very hot the last ~5 years and we've gotten very generous raises to keep up with competition, but even so, the best way to get a raise in most industries is to job hop.
I don't like job hopping, but it's not my fault companies aren't valuing their employees as much. By changing jobs in the past year, my income has significantly increased. On top of that, I've noticed with a couple of employers, that I am essentially doing the work of 2-3 people and that is ridiculous.
Shit, this thread is motivating me to jump ship even more. It's seriously time. Everyone in my group left over a year ago.
Nothing more than 2 years until I get my dream job.
Nothing more than 2 years until I get my dream job.
I think she wanted a manager position and got associate.
I've had a pretty bad run of getting let go from my last few jobs, but I've been pretty consistent about getting a better-paying job shortly after so /shrug
Went from $11.90 out of college temping, $12 at a call center, $13.50 (and then a raise to 14.50 a week later) at another temp and now I'm at $16 at another call center, which is significantly less stressful and more engaging than any of the other jobs I've had. Only been here a few months but I haven't really had any issues, though I'm always open to better opportunities (not constantly being on the hunt for a new job because I hate my current one is very refreshing though).
I was a theatre major so nothing is really in my field, it's just a matter of being able to support myself during the day and doing theatre work in the evening. Probably going to end up going to grad school so I can teach at the collegiate level and hopefully open some more doors there.
Punchline: The first call center had a scheme to regularly award raises, with $16 being the highest you could obtain after (I believe) 3 years. That was my starting wage here. Eat shit, Premier Disability!
Went from $11.90 out of college temping, $12 at a call center, $13.50 (and then a raise to 14.50 a week later) at another temp and now I'm at $16 at another call center, which is significantly less stressful and more engaging than any of the other jobs I've had. Only been here a few months but I haven't really had any issues, though I'm always open to better opportunities (not constantly being on the hunt for a new job because I hate my current one is very refreshing though).
I was a theatre major so nothing is really in my field, it's just a matter of being able to support myself during the day and doing theatre work in the evening. Probably going to end up going to grad school so I can teach at the collegiate level and hopefully open some more doors there.
Punchline: The first call center had a scheme to regularly award raises, with $16 being the highest you could obtain after (I believe) 3 years. That was my starting wage here. Eat shit, Premier Disability!
When you are flat out told for two years straight that there wont be no raises in salaries, you would be a fool if you stay (unless you have some kind of insane benefit package)
Another thing about my job
"Benefits are coming"
"We know we're underpaying you but we're working to fix that"
"We're getting new equipment"
LIES ... DECEPTION
And I ate it all up. Just wanted to wait and see.
"Benefits are coming"
"We know we're underpaying you but we're working to fix that"
"We're getting new equipment"
LIES ... DECEPTION
And I ate it all up. Just wanted to wait and see.
Man the last temp job I worked at was some fucking bullshit. I was told it was temp-to-hire and then immediately told by my supervisor that they almost never hire people on full-time because turnover is extremely high (gee I wonder why).
It was medical device manufacturing and the machines would break down constantly, leaving us with nothing to do. There was a stretch where they gave me an unpaid week off just because they were staffed at full capacity already and couldn't get the machines running again.
Hours were ass too (Mon-Thurs 5am-3:30pm and usually working that same shift on Friday for overtime). In fairness I often skipped to the bathroom to sit on my phone and waste time which is what got me canned, but it was honestly a relief when I was let go.
Once I feel like I've hit a ceiling or I can find more money elsewhere I'm out. After 2 years depending on the work environment I get restless and move on.
I guess my point is, even though my company is indeed an outlier, it's still far easier for me to make way more money by leaving than by getting promoted and getting raises. So even though it's an outlier, I'm still incentivized to job hop in order to reach a maximum earning potential.
And to your point about the job market, that obviously depends on your field. I'm in I.T. so our job market is incredibly healthy right now. Some markets are significantly more competitive which does tend to lead to more stagnant salaries. There's definitely a serious problem with in how to maximize your earning potential, but I wouldn't categorize the job market as a whole as "bad".
i would love to job hop but my work situation is just too good right now.
I can WFH whenever i want
I got a great boss
workload is usually very light
401K AND Pension
Benefits are great
Good work culture here with good people for the most part
The pay is meh, but that the price of getting all the above.
I can WFH whenever i want
I got a great boss
workload is usually very light
401K AND Pension
Benefits are great
Good work culture here with good people for the most part
The pay is meh, but that the price of getting all the above.
Depends on the job function, but our compensation plans are strong and in some cases unlimited (sales). Speaking personally I have increased my earnings by more than 75% since I came on board with this company in 2014
Also, raises are given when earned, not just because. You don't get an increase for having a pulse and being on the payroll.
You are right on point. I'll add lack of job security as well. Why stick around when it's like rolling the dice to see if you survive the quarterly wave of layoffs. Even if you survive cuts , why not go work where your friends who didn't survive are currently working now?
Look, this is coming form a gen X'er. (Xennial)
Only be loyal to companies that exhibit loyalty to you. Don't stick anywhere more than a few years., if it means you can make more money. Look after yourself first, because no one else will. Be you own best advocate.
Also though dont always chase money! Do your research!
I have a friend who left a company that had been around for 30 years. He was making 90k. He left to work for a start up and was making 120k six months later they went out of business.
Be careful about chasing the dollar. You need to be equally happy too.
Only be loyal to companies that exhibit loyalty to you. Don't stick anywhere more than a few years., if it means you can make more money. Look after yourself first, because no one else will. Be you own best advocate.
Also though dont always chase money! Do your research!
I have a friend who left a company that had been around for 30 years. He was making 90k. He left to work for a start up and was making 120k six months later they went out of business.
Be careful about chasing the dollar. You need to be equally happy too.
I will stay with a company that shows interest in my growth. Companies that don't show loyalty, don't deserve it in return; it's a two way street.
That means raises, benefits in terms of learning and improving myself and promotions.
I'm just starting my first job and so far, it seems I've found that. Starting salary above 60k, they adjust the scale every year based on market value on top of raising you within the scale based on performance, DB pension, and they do invest in training for the long term. As long as things are like this, I wouldn't have any problem staying here long term.
The thing is though, it could change over time and eventually, if the company starts cutting on those things, then it would become less and less defensible to stay over job hopping. The pension makes it so that hopping is easier early and becomes harder every year (because losing the pension becomes a bigger loss every year).
The paradigm has changed; employment nowadays is a two-way relationship and employees have more options now that job-hopping is common. That's a good thing, because companies have to invest in employee retention, which creates better conditions for everyone.
That means raises, benefits in terms of learning and improving myself and promotions.
I'm just starting my first job and so far, it seems I've found that. Starting salary above 60k, they adjust the scale every year based on market value on top of raising you within the scale based on performance, DB pension, and they do invest in training for the long term. As long as things are like this, I wouldn't have any problem staying here long term.
The thing is though, it could change over time and eventually, if the company starts cutting on those things, then it would become less and less defensible to stay over job hopping. The pension makes it so that hopping is easier early and becomes harder every year (because losing the pension becomes a bigger loss every year).
The paradigm has changed; employment nowadays is a two-way relationship and employees have more options now that job-hopping is common. That's a good thing, because companies have to invest in employee retention, which creates better conditions for everyone.
Best advice I ever received was "You gotta move out to move up". I've followed that advice the past 6 years and have seen my salary rise by almost 100% (mid 50k to low 100k). I'm in a spot right now where I can actually see myself staying at for a while, but before that I switched every 2 years or so.
As a millennial, I'll stay at any job for at least two years assuming that things aren't a total dumpster fire. If, at the end of that two year period, the company hasn't provided what I feel are adequate compensation adjustments and/or opportunities for advancement, I'll start looking for a new job. I'll never be loyal to an employer. I work purely to live and have never considered doing it any other way.
Lot of factors for why we job hop. Corporate culture is a big one. If I dont like the leadership and if my coworkers are hostile and passive aggressive. Why on earth should i stick around for 10 years in that kind of environment? Especially when I can learn independently and develop more skills and get certificates that will move me into a better fit?
It's not a millennial thing. It's an opportunity thing. The unemployment rate is so low now that job hopping is a viable option. In previous decades the unemployment rate was so ridiculously high that just finding a job was difficult and frequently switching jobs was basically impossible.
I was at my first job for 5 years and was loyal as fuck, doing more overtime than was necessary, working weekends... Then they bought in a new manager they thought was going to boost business, new manager and I didnt get along and he pushed for my termination when business was down.... all the loyalty didnt mean anything in the end and my heart ache hurt double when I was let go.
Lesson learned, companies are not loyal to you and will drop you as soon as you dont make them money
Lesson learned, companies are not loyal to you and will drop you as soon as you dont make them money
This is just the new normal. I've been at my current job for two years and I'm already one of the senior people.
On my 3rd job in the last 3 years and already thinking about looking for my fourth. Got an substantial raise every time so why not?
The only downside so far has been telling my wife's parents that I got a new job. Her dad has been at the same company for his entire career, so he tends to look at me sideways whenever I would switch jobs.
The only downside so far has been telling my wife's parents that I got a new job. Her dad has been at the same company for his entire career, so he tends to look at me sideways whenever I would switch jobs.
Hmmm, interesting reading this thread, since my job - local government, union - is very much the opposite of this trend. Very low turnover, people generally work for the county until they retire.
My career started in sales, got "promoted" off the phones into operations for a higher salary but less total wages because I got no commission. Realized it was a dead-end job, went to school, got my masters, got a tech job at an agency, got laid off, got another job with a private company, got laid off, got a job with a public university for two years and while I loved my team, I needed a raise so I just got a new job with the state government. I wasn't a job hopper by choice, but every jump I've made (except for the one to the university) has had a higher salary than the one before.
Do what you gotta do.
Do what you gotta do.
OP
OP
Just out of curiosity what do they consider to be "frequent" ?
I mean personally I feel like 2-3 years shouldn't raise any red flags. 1 year I can see it.
For me it was hard I'm moving to a non-entertainment company and I mean I can see why people stay at but that loyalty isn't rewarded long term: ongoing layoffs are happening on a weekly basis here but under the radar so they don't have to report it...shady.
It's a great company I'm going to and I get to keep doing marketing which I'm very good at and just learn a new industry and get manangement so can't hurt.
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Most people don't tend to take the long-term view on compensation (or anything really for that matter), it is easy to overlook that a 401k with x% matching (if done right and with a bit of market luck, can equate to 10's of millions when you're old) could be better than a job opp with none of that but a higher base. You also need to consider if you are a corporate or start-up kind of worker. I think millennials job hop more often than the older generations overall simply because most people just don't know what they want to do or don't have a passion that fits the job description. Other factors could be that some like to constantly learn and be challenged, some chase the dollar, some hate their boss, some want a promotion, some want to work for a sexier company, etc etc. Very few people get to work a fulfilling job that they genuinely enjoy.
It is well known in my office that anyone can instantly job hop for a 25%+ bigger paycheck. Doesn't hurt that the US economy is hot right now and there are more openings than ever. But my personal view on this is that you're going to work for a good portion of the rest of your life, so wouldn't you rather have a job that you like getting out of bed for? Sure, everyone wants something different out of their careers, but I think I get paid enough and have more responsibility than I ever thought I would have to satisfy me for the time being. Also, I can pretty much work from home as long as I don't have any meetings.
You also have to take into consideration that you are are effectively starting from square one, having to learn how the new company operates, and with no reputation to your name when you change jobs. On the other hand, it could be a good opportunity for new networking. I would probably say ~4yrs is a good amount of time to spend at one place overall, and agree that loyalty is a joke with at-will companies that don't offer things like pensions anymore (aka most of them). Oh, I'm 28 and have been with the same tech company out of college for 6yrs. And I have successfully negotiated a sizable raise without a comp offer.
It is well known in my office that anyone can instantly job hop for a 25%+ bigger paycheck. Doesn't hurt that the US economy is hot right now and there are more openings than ever. But my personal view on this is that you're going to work for a good portion of the rest of your life, so wouldn't you rather have a job that you like getting out of bed for? Sure, everyone wants something different out of their careers, but I think I get paid enough and have more responsibility than I ever thought I would have to satisfy me for the time being. Also, I can pretty much work from home as long as I don't have any meetings.
You also have to take into consideration that you are are effectively starting from square one, having to learn how the new company operates, and with no reputation to your name when you change jobs. On the other hand, it could be a good opportunity for new networking. I would probably say ~4yrs is a good amount of time to spend at one place overall, and agree that loyalty is a joke with at-will companies that don't offer things like pensions anymore (aka most of them). Oh, I'm 28 and have been with the same tech company out of college for 6yrs. And I have successfully negotiated a sizable raise without a comp offer.
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I worked retail for 2 and half years and I still think that was too long in one place. Finding new jobs not only lets you get new opportunities but also new skills, and increase your network. Staying at one company your whole life is such an old way of doing things...
Well OP titled this as a millennial specific story, along with most of the replies, and you said "we" so I assume that was your intent... are you a millennial or no?