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Rockstar grants permission to current devs to talk about company on social media

jschreier

jschreier

Press Sneak Fuck
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,094
oneils said:
serious question. how many hours a week does schreier work and does he get paid overtime?
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Journalism isn't really comparable to other fields, especially in games where one component of your job is to play video games (which blurs the line between work and fun), but please don't worry about me - my boss and my company both treat me very well. Well, except for this: https://www.fastcompany.com/4053353...ops-gizmodos-new-york-staff-is-extremely-cold

As for Rockstar, well, I'm still working on a story, I've already talked to dozens of current and former employees, and my goal is to paint as fair and thorough a picture as possible. I'll leave it at that for now.
 

Deleted member 198

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,319
Yossarian said:
I'm not supporting the poster's argument, but I'm genuinely curious about this: where do you think Whataboutism ends and pointing out hypocrisy begins?
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It entirely depends on context.
There's a time and place for every conversation, but when someone brings up working conditions or products made outside the US, it's almost always used to discredit and end the conversation. It's disingenuous to say the least, especially when we have not only more agency, but a larger ability to push for change and encourage change to situations local to ourselves.
 
Mandikiri

Mandikiri

Banned
Apr 21, 2018
293
Boston, MA.
Working those amount of hours are in no way healthy! No one should be made to work those hours period.

But I am in no way going to not buy the game due to it or feel bad about buying the game.
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,851
Santa Albertina
ckareset said:
Never really understood this argument. Due to the nature of the business, if you have something that needs to be done it's not really a choice to do extra hours. You have to complete your work. You can say they chose to do the work, but the alternative is what? Not finishing? lol

I'm not saying it's a Rockstar issue as I work in a similar environment. But the idea that it's a choice to work extra hours because they are invested or love their work just seems like a corporate copout.
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There are a lot of things you can argue a employee ask for overtime:

- He wants or needs an extra.
- He wants to add something that was not planned.
- He wants to increase the quality of the software (the software will be shipped no matter what but he wants to make it better performance or use).
- He wants to help to reach the planned deadlines.
- He wants to anticipate his work to take vacation early.
- He lose the time working and when he see he is already doing overtime (that happens to me a lot when I have a interesting issue in my project... when I see it is night and I already worked over 10 hours because I want to see if my ideias to fix the issue will works... it is heavy gratification when it happens and I even wake up early excited to see what I can do... sometimes I have ideias taking a shower before go work)
- Etc, etc, etc.

There are so much situation that didn't follow the "company forced me" and from these few example I posted two or three fits the "I love my work" or "I'm invested in my work".

So it is more common than people things... it happens all the time... I particularly loves when I enter in my own work with a big issue without have any ideia how many hours I'm working.
 
TheModestGun

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
Eorl said:
And Team Bondi also said they were ace until shit hit the fan. Overtime shouldn't even be something you go to social media to defend, it just shouldn't be a thing with a well-managed studio like Rockstar unless a serious issue is found close to release and it's all hands on deck to fix it. It is the whole point of project managers and using systems like SCRUM to ensure you meet deadlines or sprint goals.
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Overtime shouldn't be a thing? Surely you don't mean paid overtime? There are a lot of us who do intentionally pick up overtime hours and like it when we have the option to. Some of us want to make more money. Mandatory overtime on the other hand can disappear forever for all I care.
 
Kyougar

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,359
Magwik said:
"nobody is forced too"

Is always the key words to pay attention to.
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We are not forcing you, but Greg over there does 100 hours a week. We seriously question your work ethics, teamplay ability, and your corporate loyalty.
We even had to stop Greg from doing 120 hours because he wanted to get the project on track again and wanted to compensate the lack of TEAMWORK from OTHER colleagues.
 
LuisGarcia

LuisGarcia

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,478
Kyougar said:
We are not forcing you, but Greg over there does 100 hours a week. We seriously question your work ethics, teamplay ability, and your corporate loyalty.
We even had to stop Greg from doing 120 hours because he wanted to get the project on track again and wanted to compensate the lack of TEAMWORK from OTHER colleagues.
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Again you just made a lot of stuff up
 
Yossarian

Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,264
Magwik said:
It entirely depends on context.
There's a time and place for every conversation, but when someone brings up working conditions or products made outside the US, it's almost always used to discredit and end the conversation. It's disingenuous to say the least, especially when we have not only more agency, but a larger ability to push for change and encourage change to situations local to ourselves.
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That's a fair way of looking at it, though I'd suggest it works both ways; Whataboutism is often used disingenuously to shut down arguments that make valid points, often regardless of the context.
 
oneils

oneils

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,096
Ottawa Canada
jschreier said:
Journalism isn't really comparable to other fields, especially in games where one component of your job is to play video games (which blurs the line between work and fun), but please don't worry about me - my boss and my company both treat me very well. Well, except for this: https://www.fastcompany.com/4053353...ops-gizmodos-new-york-staff-is-extremely-cold

As for Rockstar, well, I'm still working on a story, I've already talked to dozens of current and former employees, and my goal is to paint as fair and thorough a picture as possible. I'll leave it at that for now.
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good to hear. I do find this topic confusing because for many people their career is their passion and long hours don't seem like a burden to them. in my teens, in college, i remeber a year where i slept at most 4 hours a day. then in my 20s i went a couple of months without a day off.

I made those choices freely. So yeah this is confusing.
 

Polk

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
4,235
Heckler456 said:
All jokes aside, something fitting within the mold of a "fallacy" does not inherently disprove anything.
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No, not rally. Noone have to prove they are saint before they can criticize something. There are infinite things and services we have contact in everyday life it would be impossible to do so.
I mean, your electicity in some capacity probably comes from fossil fuel industry. And yet I won't call you hypocryte if you say you care for enviroment.
 

Deleted member 3925

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,725
DNAbro said:
I never said you in particular did.
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My apologies for calling your post nonsense. I understand that people are just sympathizing with the employees. But doesn't it make more sense to buy the game and reward their hard work, rather than hoping it fails like I've seen some on here say?

Just my feelings. Obviously everyone is free to do whatever with their money.
 
hanmik

hanmik

Editor/Writer at Popaco.dk
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
1,436
just saw this on twitter..

u9PX1O2.png


not sure how relevant this is..
 
data

data

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,722
jschreier said:
Journalism isn't really comparable to other fields, especially in games where one component of your job is to play video games (which blurs the line between work and fun), but please don't worry about me - my boss and my company both treat me very well. Well, except for this: https://www.fastcompany.com/4053353...ops-gizmodos-new-york-staff-is-extremely-cold

As for Rockstar, well, I'm still working on a story, I've already talked to dozens of current and former employees, and my goal is to paint as fair and thorough a picture as possible. I'll leave it at that for now.
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Looking forward to it.

While I'm glad there are some employees who are happy with their work condition, I do hope those that aren't are willing to speak out.
 
ProstatePuncher

ProstatePuncher

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,800
Kyougar said:
We are not forcing you, but Greg over there does 100 hours a week. We seriously question your work ethics, teamplay ability, and your corporate loyalty.
We even had to stop Greg from doing 120 hours because he wanted to get the project on track again and wanted to compensate the lack of TEAMWORK from OTHER colleagues.
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People might remember me firing off about a previous gamedev job, and this was exactly how it was. Managers always chatted to you about how someone else was doing more hours on the project than you, how it was such a better contribution, how other people were talking about them in other departments, even if you were hammering it out in your contracted hours and doing no goofing about.

Made me feel anxious about my job the entire time.
 
Heckler456

Heckler456

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
Belgium
Polk said:
No, not rally. Noone have to prove they are saint before they can criticize something. There are infinite things and services we have contact in everyday life it would be impossible to do so.
I mean, your electicity in some capacity probably comes from fossil fuel industry. And yet I won't call you hypocryte if you say you care for enviroment.
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-_-

It's not about criticizing.

It's about the notion of having to feel bad about it.

I'm getting off this carousel.
 
Shadow-Link

Shadow-Link

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,081
Sherlocked said:
I rather think people judge way too quick without enough information. Sometimes I feel like people search for reasons to attack companies just for the sake of it.
We live in a world where two tweets create a social hurricane of emotions and anger before any proof was given.

The need of drama is too damn high.
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The thing is, if this was EA the conversation would be very different, but since it's Rockstar there a lot of people defending them. This is a problem in the industry that needs to be addressed.
 
DNAbro

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,918
Lead said:
My apologies for calling your post nonsense. I understand that people are just sympathizing with the employees. But doesn't it make more sense to buy the game and reward their hard work, rather than hoping it fails like I've seen some on here say?

Just my feelings. Obviously everyone is free to do whatever with their money.
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It won't fail regardless lol. I'm not buying it, not cause I'm boycotting the issue, i just don't care about cowboys.
 

icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
*shrug*. no way to know how legit these testimonials are. i mean, the vast superiority of rockstar open world games over everyone else in the industry has to require a ton of work
 
deadasdisco

deadasdisco

Member
Jun 10, 2018
548
People here now think they got the right to judge employees who feel comfortable with there jobs or implying that they are lying. Common now thats just disrespectful. If they support Rockstar, thats a good thing.
 

Deleted member 27751

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
3,997
TheModestGun said:
Overtime shouldn't be a thing? Surely you don't mean paid overtime? There are a lot of us who do intentionally pick up overtime hours and like it when we have the option to. Some of us want to make more money. Mandatory overtime on the other hand can disappear forever for all I care.
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Paid is fine. I take some myself to pay things off if I need.
 
ProstatePuncher

ProstatePuncher

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,800
LuisGarcia said:
There is someone in this thread saying the email went out to the entire company.

Plus she mentions a UK studio. UK has pretty strict laws for that kind of thing.
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Pretty sure their contracts will be governed by EU working laws. EU law states that any overtime has to be paid, but it isn't explicitly banned. You very likely sign a clause in your contract saying you forgo any limitation on your working hours anyway. I know I had to at my current job, and it isn't even games related.

Found this site with a very useful table on it: https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/publications/report/2003/overtime-in-europe
 

cgcg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
430
mindsale said:
*Reads this from an iPhone made from African conflict minerals, assembled at FoxConn under working conditions so oppressive they had to install suicide nets, held in the same hand that wears a Congolese diamond ring, the other hand preparing a saucepan of eggs harvested under conditions so foul and in such close confinement that the hens are debeaked.

Nods head.

*Sips fair trade coffee.
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I totally get you bro. If you can't do everything right don't bother doing anything right. Am I rite? *Hi-five
 

Empress of ice cream

Member
Dec 2, 2017
1,544
I really hope they have taken steps to improve the working conditions for their devs across all studios. Rockstar is a huge company with several studios so while management and senior staff in some studios may have improved the conditions and try to avoid obsessive crunch, it may still be bad at another studio. There is always room for improvement. I can't speak from firsthand experience but someone very close to me was a dev at San Diego when the fist RDR was made and hot mess does not even describe to begin it.
 

PrimeBeef

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,840
Magwik said:
"nobody is forced too"

Is always the key words to pay attention to.
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We had similar situations where it wasn't "required" or "forced", but it was implied you may not be there for long if you didn't.

Knowing what goes on in game development, backed up by countless stories and evidence proving horrendous working conditions in terms of hours with crunch, I have nor reason to believe Houser that it was only senior staff.
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,066
Ahri said:
  • We were under-staffed
  • We had tons of games
  • We had tons of events
  • You want to perform to get a bonus and climb the ladder, since you don't want to suck **** to reach your goals.
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The sad thing is everyone blindly believing extended hours will "address" the above problems. The moment extended hours go past the 2-3 week mark you're lucky to maintain your original productivity... And it definitely doesn't work as a productivity boost when it's been months - no matter what people keep telling themselves.
 
Admiral Woofington

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
I want to hear about Rockstar US staff anyways. I know how fucked labor laws are in here when you're staffed. I don't expect anybody to speak out publicly.

Hence why Jason Schreier is doing God's work if he gets people terrified to speak to at least do so anonymously.
 
TheMrPliskin

TheMrPliskin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,564
Mass_Pincup said:
Because not every company has the same scope, number of employees, budget and importance to their parent company if them have one.

You can see that Media Molecule not crunching may have something to do with the fact that they're a small team working on a project which is not supposed to a commercial blockbuster while Naughty Dog works on bigger project while being the crown jewel of Sony may put higher stakes and responsibility to their project schedule right?

There's no need to deal in absolute and it's important to think about the context and differences between companies and studios in order to properly deal with crunch and moving towards a crunchless future. Screaming that it's the fault of management and "others" manage to do it so there's no excuse is a myopic and surface level rethoric.
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You state it's not the fault of management yet in your post you literally state that Naughty Dog is more likely to have crunch because of pressure put on them by Sony.
 
deadasdisco

deadasdisco

Member
Jun 10, 2018
548
Salty Rice said:
44833.jpg
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What's your point? I'm a fan of the talent at rockstar and the products they ship, I also avidly think crunch culture is disgraceful and am all for unionisation. I never stated that the employees who publicly had bad experiences with Rockstar are wrong, nor do I think people who have said they have had good experiences at Rockstar are wrong.
 
ProstatePuncher

ProstatePuncher

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,800
Castlemadeofsand said:
If it sucks so bad they can find a better place to work
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What if they want to keep working in video games, or they have a family, and both mean relocation to another city or even country? What if their contract has a non-compete clause where they can't even look at other companies for work, let alone openly advertise they want a new one?

Stop with this fuckin' dumb excuse. Video game development does not need to be a torture.
 

Afro_DusT

Member
Apr 11, 2018
136
DNAbro said:
Some people here really don't want to feel any kind of bad in regards to their RDR2 purchase.
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I don't feel bad about buying the game regardless of whether they were forced to work insane hours or not. If I started having to be that mindful of the working conditions products I consume were produced under I wouldn't be able to buy anything, and that's a condition I personally refuse to abide by. By that logic, I should probably throw away my iPhone and PlayStation since Foxconn workers were literally killing themselves to make my electronics a few years ago.
 
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