Doctor Who Series 11 |OT|- She’s Here, and It’s About Time

Blader · Oct 16, 2018

I'm liking the cast and I enjoyed both episodes well enough, but it feels something's missing so far. Both episodes feel like less than the sum of their parts. All the pieces are there, but they're not grabbing in a way that other wipe-the-slate debuts like The Eleventh Hour or (to some extent) The Pilot did. I had some trepidations about Chibnall as showrunner given his so-so Who output before this, and I can't say he's really blowing away those concerns so far. But still plenty of time for the show to grow, and we haven't seen anything not written by Chibnall yet.

Not a fan of the new TARDIS interior. It looks both too busy (the walls and columns around the console) and too sparse (the console itself), and way too dimly lit! Maybe it'll grow on me. Looking back up at those pics though, Capaldi's TARDIS was clearly the best modern set yet.

Mulciber said:
I was wondering about one of Susan's parents, too, but the "...and forgotten" part is throwing me. It also makes me wonder if it will just be someone new.

Given how often Chibnall has said he wants this series to be a fresh start that new viewers can understand, I really don't see him bringing in Susan or any past Time Lord character like that.

Xagarath · Oct 16, 2018

Ventilaator said:
Was Dinosaurs on a Spaceship the one where the Doctor murdered the bad guy at the end in an unreasonably brutal way?

I don't even remember what the exact situation was, I just think that was the episode where at the end everyone went "Wait what, did that just happen??"

Yeah, that was more my problem with the episode than the level of whimsy on display.

JediTimeBoy · Oct 16, 2018

Xagarath said:
Yeah, that was more my problem with the episode than the level of whimsy on display.

I mean, to o be fair, it's not like that's the first time the Doctor has done something like that; remember Davros in Remembrance ?

PlanetSmasher · Oct 16, 2018

Blader said:
Given how often Chibnall has said he wants this series to be a fresh start that new viewers can understand, I really don't see him bringing in Susan or any past Time Lord character like that.

He'll bring the Time Lords in eventually, in some form. He has to. But doing it this early is pretty damn unlikely. At least give Thirteen a season to settle before we start digging into Gallifreyan lore.

Xagarath · Oct 16, 2018

TimeWyrm said:
I mean, to o be fair, it's not like that's the first time the Doctor has done something like that; remember Davros in Remembrance ?

It's not like the Doctor didn't warn him beforehand.

Radiophonic · Oct 16, 2018

APZonerunner said:
The coolest thing about Dinosaurs on a Spaceship is it introduced some friends of the Doctor who were cool, interesting and used as a one-off, not dragged back to shamble around awfully in a later episode (something Moff was, let's be fair, prone to doing)

I'm shocked Big Finish hasn't done a Nefertiti and That Hunter Guy spin-off series yet.

Blader · Oct 16, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
He'll bring the Time Lords in eventually, in some form. He has to. But doing it this early is pretty damn unlikely. At least give Thirteen a season to settle before we start digging into Gallifreyan lore.

Sure, I'm just not expecting it this year. And I'm definitely not expecting Chibnall's first major arc being "Here's the new Doctor! Also, she's a grandmother!"

PlanetSmasher · Oct 16, 2018

Blader said:
Sure, I'm just not expecting it this year. And I'm definitely not expecting Chibnall's first major arc being "Here's the new Doctor! Also, she's a grandmother!"

Agreed on both parts. I really wish Moffat found a way to touch on Susan at least once during Twelve's era - it was the best possible place to bring her in or at least talk about her more openly one more time.

Metallix87 · Oct 16, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
Agreed on both parts. I really wish Moffat found a way to touch on Susan at least once during Twelve's era - it was the best possible place to bring her in or at least talk about her more openly one more time.

I mean, Moffat indirectly referred to her as dead on numerous instances. I'd say that shows where he felt she belongs.

Blader · Oct 16, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
Agreed on both parts. I really wish Moffat found a way to touch on Susan at least once during Twelve's era - it was the best possible place to bring her in or at least talk about her more openly one more time.

yeah, given the Susan photo in The Pilot, the First Doctor's return, and Capaldi saying Susan was his favorite companion from the old show, I figured something for Susan would've been in the cards for S10. But I remember Moffat also saying he didn't want to bring back Rose proper for the 50th because he felt RTD closed her story perfectly and didn't want to reopen that, and I can imagine him thinking the same about Susan in Dalek Invasion of Earth, whose goodbye scene was pretty much perfect.

PlanetSmasher · Oct 16, 2018

Blader said:
yeah, given the Susan photo in The Pilot, the First Doctor's return, and Capaldi saying Susan was his favorite companion from the old show, I figured something for Susan would've been in the cards for S10. But I remember Moffat also saying he didn't want to bring back Rose proper for the 50th because he felt RTD closed her story perfectly and didn't want to reopen that, and I can imagine him thinking the same about Susan in Dalek Invasion of Earth, whose goodbye scene was pretty much perfect.

Indeed. It just always feels weird to me that a time traveller would never check in on his actual granddaughter at any point after they split up.

Oh well. I guess that's what Big Finish is for...

Blader · Oct 16, 2018

I just noticed that Chibnall is actually writing or co-writing all of at least the first five episodes of this series... so much for hearing from new writers anytime soon :lol

mclem · Oct 16, 2018

Blader said:
I just noticed that Chibnall is actually writing or co-writing all of at least the first five episodes of this series... so much for hearing from new writers anytime soon :lol

I'm assuming he'll probably be down as 'co-writing' most things just to touch things up in ways that benefit the throughline of the season that an single-episode writer may not be aware of (didn't RTD say that it was only Moff's scripts he didn't fiddle with?). I'm expecting the new writers to be taking the fore in their episodes, but we'll see!

JediTimeBoy · Oct 16, 2018

Xagarath said:
It's not like the Doctor didn't warn him beforehand.

But he knew the choice Davros would make; he may have given him the chance, but ultimately he knew.

Some of the Doctor's regenerations can be morally grey, the Seventh Doctor especially. The Sixth Doctor and even the First Doctor come to mind as well...

Dary · Oct 16, 2018

LL_Decitrig said:
I keep running into astonishing opinions like this here. It's dinosaurs. On a spaceship! And it has Rory's dad and everything. And David Bradley as an evil entrepreneur, and really silly robots. And a huge beach that's an engine room. I can't even think of any part of that episode that isn't perfect.

Then again there are even people who think Robot of Sherwood is bad, and that one has evil Ben Miller and a spoon fight and mediaeval killer robots and Clara being brilliant, and Capaldi's eyebrows. And a tower that's really a spaceship! And Robin Hood! I laughed so much I nearly died from lack of breath.

Are comic stories somehow regarded as not really Doctor Who material, or something?

This sort of thing used to happen with Star Trek all the time, too. One of the DS9 writers once said such episodes tended to perform better in the UK than America, because of different standards in comedy.

Mulciber · Oct 16, 2018

Blader said:
Given how often Chibnall has said he wants this series to be a fresh start that new viewers can understand, I really don't see him bringing in Susan or any past Time Lord character like that.

I think you're probably right, which is why I don't think "...and unknown" will be a misdirect. "Timeless" makes me think Time Lord, but I wouldn't bet on a past one, and in the DW universe, we have lots of other things that could fit that description already, plus anything new the writers come up with.

Other than a small concern for how Rosa will be handled, I am thoroughly excited to see what's coming, though. As much as I love DW lore, I'm perfectly pleased with all new ideas, villains, and plots.

Dwebble · Oct 16, 2018

Blader said:
I just noticed that Chibnall is actually writing or co-writing all of at least the first five episodes of this series... so much for hearing from new writers anytime soon :lol

He's not co-writing Vinay Patel's episode 6, though, and he was only down to write 5 episodes- I suspect episodes 6-9 will be the guest writers' episodes.

I suspect he's rewritten episode 3 because Malorie Blackman's a very busy woman, and needed more of a hand to get the episode over the line.

Metallix87 · Oct 16, 2018

TimeWyrm said:
But he knew the choice Davros would make; he may have given him the chance, but ultimately he knew.

Some of the Doctor's regenerations can be morally grey, the Seventh Doctor especially. The Sixth Doctor and even the First Doctor come to mind as well...

Yes. The Doctor can be morally grey, and essentially started off in that way. I think it's even possible that this current Doctor could progress in that direction given the tone of the first two episodes, and the visual look of her Tardis.

PlanetSmasher · Oct 16, 2018

Rewatched The Next Doctor last night. I don't know why. I completely forgot how weird it was to see Cybermen in Victorian London.

JediTimeBoy · Oct 16, 2018

Metallix87 said:
I think it's even possible that this current Doctor could progress in that direction given the tone of the first two episodes, and the visual look of her Tardis.

Huh?

Paradox · Oct 16, 2018

Dwebble said:
He's not co-writing Vinay Patel's episode 6, though, and he was only down to write 5 episodes- I suspect episodes 6-9 will be the guest writers' episodes.

I suspect he's rewritten episode 3 because Malorie Blackman's a very busy woman, and needed more of a hand to get the episode over the line.

Given the content of the episode, it would've been nice to not have the white straight male headwriter contributing to the writing. Not that that somehow precludes him from writing something appropriate and well-researched but some of the descriptions of the episode are already beginning to give me pause.

Although there is a part of me that feels sorry for Chibnall because literally anything slightly questionable about the episode will no doubt get laid at his door.

Metallix87 · Oct 16, 2018

TimeWyrm said:
Huh?

The stories have been dark in tone and visuals, and her Tardis interior is quite dark and foreboding.

infiniteloop · Oct 16, 2018

Blader said:
I just noticed that Chibnall is actually writing or co-writing all of at least the first five episodes of this series... so much for hearing from new writers anytime soon :lol

aww man

CD_93 · Oct 16, 2018

Chibnall rewrites every single script one way or another, it's his job now. Plus he had all the writers get together to flesh out their ideas with him right at the start so he has a hand in it all.

Don't go off the "Written by" credits to decide what he has been involved in.

Blader · Oct 16, 2018

CD_93 said:
Chibnall rewrites every single script one way or another, it's his job now. Plus he had all the writers get together to flesh out their ideas with him right at the start so he has a hand in it all.

Don't go off the "Written by" credits to decide what he has been involved in.

Well I definitely know he was involved in the four episodes solely credited as "Written by Chris Chibnall" :P

JediTimeBoy · Oct 16, 2018

Metallix87 said:
The stories have been dark in tone and visuals, and her Tardis interior is quite dark and foreboding.

I don't know if I'd necessarily agree with them being darker in tone, as opposed to CC trying to make Doctor Who seem more grown up, or a flagship of British Drama (imo).

For me, these first two episodes have been less fun, less energetic than since the beginning of Tennant's reign.

Imo, it's not like pre-survival either, where it may have seemed more sci-fi drama, now it feels like drama sci-fi, if that makes sense.

water_wendi · Oct 16, 2018

Great episode.

Did they ever explain why the planet had fallen out of orbit?

Edit: Also The Doctor telling that one dude off with "take one of your heroic naps" lol

ArkkAngel007 · Oct 16, 2018

water_wendi said:
Great episode.

Did they ever explain why the planet had fallen out of orbit?

Edit: Also The Doctor telling that one dude off with "take one of your heroic naps" lol

Not the exact reasoning iirc. Just another consequence of the Stenza's campaign to cleanse the planet.

Psittacus · Oct 16, 2018

Protome said:
The Tardis dispensing biscuits just made me think of

I had the exact same thought.

Wowfunhappy · Oct 16, 2018

Second episode sucked. Uninteresting and uneventful.

I don't like any of the companions. Which is a considerable feat considering there's three of them!

Wowfunhappy · Oct 16, 2018

mclem said:

Real talk, a Tardis-only episode where the Vashta Nerada invade would be cool as heck.

Mulciber · Oct 16, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
Rewatched The Next Doctor last night. I don't know why. I completely forgot how weird it was to see Cybermen in Victorian London.

Hey, I re-watched that for the first time over this past weekend. It was definitely a different feeling than when I watched it when it aired and didn't know what was coming, but I still rather enjoyed it.

Wowfunhappy said:
Real talk, a Tardis-only episode where the Vashta Nerada invade would be cool as heck.

If that happens, I sure hope the TARDIS we saw at the end of the last episode had the lighting set to dim. :D

cheese toast · Oct 16, 2018

Scattergun thoughts:

Attempts to make a new alien race a threatening presence throughout the season are undermined when they're introduced to us as 'Tim Shaw'.
I thought writing chops had developed beyond the need for the Doctor to broadcast questions to the audience ('Why are they doing this?' / 'What is it for?' / 'Why are they here?') but apparently not.
That saying about cooks and broth? Too many companions spoil the character development.
(Specific to The Ghost Monument) Telling us about a great big door but not showing us the great big door brings to mind a set budget that could not extend as far as a great big door.
I like how the TARDIS console room is beyond the rear wall of the police box, rather than just behind its double doors. Makes it feel like the box really has something massive within its tiny space.
New titles effect is great, but the credits upon it feel neglected.

SigmasonicX · Oct 17, 2018

cheese toast said:
(Specific to The Ghost Monument) Telling us about a great big door but not showing us the great big door brings to mind a set budget that could not extend as far as a great big door.

Oh yeah, that struck me as an extremely blatant budget moment they could have handled much more gracefully.

mclem · Oct 17, 2018

After sleeping on it I'm still in two minds about the new TARDIS interior; I'm a little concerned that what we've seen of it suggests there's not going to be many ways to shoot it interestingly; think about how dynamic the Moffat-era TARDIS was in that regard, with side nooks to talk in or balconies to stand on, and all the objects that make the place look like a *home*, rather than a *vehicle*. This feels like the entirety of the Tardis as a location is the console and nothing else. But then, it's very early days, and it might start to accumulate aspects of Jodie's Doctorness over time

APZonerunner · Oct 17, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
He'll bring the Time Lords in eventually, in some form. He has to. But doing it this early is pretty damn unlikely. At least give Thirteen a season to settle before we start digging into Gallifreyan lore.

I don't think he has to at all. If the Doctor has decided to leg it and stay away from them again, it's pretty easy to assume they'd never catch up with him/her. I'm sure we'll get a Time Lord in Chibnall's run, or references to them like in The Doctor's Wife, but he absolutely doesn't have to go back to Gallifrey or get into all that dog shit gallifreyan lore if he doesn't want to (and honestly he probably shouldn't)

Sedef122 · Oct 17, 2018

Most people moaning about the current series seems to be fans who have a concrete idea on what Doctor Who has to be based purely on the new series. It doesn't need to be bombastic, or have every character shooting off one liners rather than have a conversation like a human being. It is slower paced and so far I am enjoying it a lot. Many classic series fans moan about modern who because it is not like it was when they grew up, it seems like modern Who fans are falling into the same trap.

AquaRegia · Oct 17, 2018

cheese toast said:
Scattergun thoughts:

I like how the TARDIS console room is beyond the rear wall of the police box, rather than just behind its double doors. Makes it feel like the box really has something massive within its tiny space.

This was the only thing I liked about the new Tardis. The crystal look may grow on me, but only if they turn on the lights more. I thought we had left the dirty brown mud looks behind.

Real Hero · Oct 17, 2018

Sedef122 said:
Most people moaning about the current series seems to be fans who have a concrete idea on what Doctor Who has t9 be based purely on the new series. It doesn't need to be bombastic, or have every character shooting off one liners rather than have a conversation like a human being. It is slower paced and so far I am enjoying it a lot. Many classic series fans moan about modern who because it is not like it was when they grew up, it seems like modern Who fans are falling into the same trap.

it's fine to like one thing and not the other

Sedef122 · Oct 17, 2018

Real Hero said:
it's fine to like one thing and not the other

Wasn't my point but thanks for the condescending reply.

Metallix87 · Oct 17, 2018

Sedef122 said:
Most people moaning about the current series seems to be fans who have a concrete idea on what Doctor Who has to be based purely on the new series. It doesn't need to be bombastic, or have every character shooting off one liners rather than have a conversation like a human being. It is slower paced and so far I am enjoying it a lot. Many classic series fans moan about modern who because it is not like it was when they grew up, it seems like modern Who fans are falling into the same trap.

Well yeah, the new series has been on for over a decade now, and is all a lot of people know. For instance, I'm a relatively new fan, and the RTD and Moffat era are what got me into the show in the first place.

plagiarize · Oct 17, 2018

Say what you will about the new series so far (personally I'm enjoying the heavier focus on drama), but it's great to see the second episode stayed north of 7 million viewers in overnights. I wasn't expecting that. That's season 1 level overnights (TEOTW was at about 7.2 million in the overnights to use the fairest comparison) in a world were even more people are watching through other means than back in 2005.

PlanetSmasher · Oct 17, 2018

plagiarize said:
Say what you will about the new series so far (personally I'm enjoying the heavier focus on drama), but it's great to see the second episode stayed north of 7 million viewers in overnights. I wasn't expecting that. That's season 1 level overnights (TEOTW was at about 7.2 million in the overnights to use the fairest comparison) in a world were even more people are watching through other means than back in 2005.

It'll be interesting to see how long the ratings stay stable. They will decay - they always do - but they certainly have the ability to brag about the show's performance thus far.

Deleted member 1074 · Oct 17, 2018

the tardis in the pics looks better than the previous ep. I like her as the doctor but some of the writing in the previous 2 episodes has been average. hope it picks up in the rest of the season. also lol at the biscuit

Deleted member 7051 · Oct 17, 2018

Wowfunhappy said:
Real talk, a Tardis-only episode where the Vashta Nerada invade would be cool as heck.

I'll take this only if we get a scene at the end calling back to The Doctor's Wife and the TARDIS itself just fucks their shit up.

kvetcha · Oct 17, 2018

Jodie is a total delight. The production values are excellent. The writing is...not great. Lacks spark.

But it's early days yet. And it's new Who!

Joqu · Oct 17, 2018

Sedef122 said:
Most people moaning about the current series seems to be fans who have a concrete idea on what Doctor Who has to be based purely on the new series. It doesn't need to be bombastic, or have every character shooting off one liners rather than have a conversation like a human being. It is slower paced and so far I am enjoying it a lot. Many classic series fans moan about modern who because it is not like it was when they grew up, it seems like modern Who fans are falling into the same trap.

I mean, I like plenty of the classic eras and I think there's plenty to dislike here about the writing. I think it's reasonable to assume the majority of the people here are modern-only fans, but I don't think that means their complaints are inherently tied to their somewhat more limited Doctor Who experiences. They seem similar enough to mine!

I do appreciate the slower pace though, yes. That absolutely gives it a very classic feeling.

TastyBurger666 · Oct 17, 2018

mclem said:
I'm assuming he'll probably be down as 'co-writing' most things just to touch things up in ways that benefit the throughline of the season that an single-episode writer may not be aware of (didn't RTD say that it was only Moff's scripts he didn't fiddle with?). I'm expecting the new writers to be taking the fore in their episodes, but we'll see!

RTD was contractually not allowed to touch Moffat's scripts.

mclem · Oct 17, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
It'll be interesting to see how long the ratings stay stable. They will decay - they always do - but they certainly have the ability to brag about the show's performance thus far.

I was expecting - and would have been reasonably content with - a drop from ep1 to ep2 of twice the size of the one we had. I'm delighted!

kvetcha · Oct 17, 2018

TastyBurger666 said:
RTD was contractually not allowed to touch Moffat's scripts.

And thank God for that.

Doctor Who Series 11 |OT|- She’s Here, and It’s About Time

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