Ninja Theory hiring a game analytics person, sounds potentially Games as a Service-y

inpHilltr8r said:

It doesn't. OP poisoned the well with the title, and we all went off on our usual bullshit.

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I assure you that Nirolak was not acting in bad faith with the thread title. It was just his analysis of what this job posting might mean. It's a completely plausible conjecture on his part that wasn't in anyway about trying to unleash the hordes of angry consumers who hate live service games on MS or Ninja Theory. Nirolak regularly peruses job postings because he likes industry discussion and just thinks it's interesting to see what studios might be up to. Job postings are one data point through which we can make educated guesses about what a studio's next game might be.

There is no game.
No name.


Yet this thread has 8 pages and terrible replies,why?

NT
MS
Gaas

Is this for real?

poofynamanama2 said:

Have there been any rumors about the next gen Xbox having full compatibility with 360/One games? I really miss some of my favorite last gen games and my laptop isn't up to snuff. I sure miss Halo and Gears...it's been so long. I might have to pick up one next gen if they start focusing more on single player stuff.

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It's pretty much guaranteed.

Gears misses you too. Whatever happened to brothers to the end?

On the note of GAAS, actually hoping Halo Infinite brings back paid DLC. Put in 1600 hours and would've gladly paid for more developer made maps instead of the Forge stuff. Worst developer made competitive maps in a Halo ever...but bullshit came free.

Back in the OG Xbox days, Forza Horizon 3's Blizzard Mountain and Hot Wheels expansions would've been full priced sequels releasing every year.

Again...argue for value, transparency and options. Not cheap or free. If they're going to continue building out content for your favorite franchises, the numbers have to balance somewhere. GAAS in of itself was never the problem.

This is a weird thread.....

This thread is an example of how Forza Mototsport 7 threads used to go before Sony added microtransactions to Gran Turismo Sport...bu bu bu lootboxes...

All those sony fans that used to whine about lootboxes in FM7 suddenly disappeared after the addition of mtx in GT Sport...lol

Samething will happen with GaaS...

LifeLine said:

Every gamepass game will either be AA single player adventure, possibly episodic. Or large GaaS game that's aimed that making you stick with the same game for a long period of time investing more and more time and money into it.

It's the only way GamePass can be profitable. $10/month for games like DmC and Hellblade won't work any more.

I expect Microsoft to have a GaaS game in every genre.

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Not even remotely true, the entire GamePass business model is centered around having as many subscribers as possible. You can have AAA big budget games without monetezation if you have 30-40 million GamePass subscribers.

BTW DmC was technically a GaaS game because it had an expansion pack/DLC where you can play as Virgil. Any game that offers DLC/expansion content is technically a GaaS. That includes the Witcher 3, Spider-man, Souls games, Horizon ZD etc

Seahawk64 said:

This thread is an example of how Forza Mototsport 7 threads used to go before Sony added microtransactions to Gran Turismo Sport...bu bu bu lootboxes...

All those sony fans that used to whine about lootboxes in FM7 suddenly disappeared after the addition of mtx in GT Sport...lol

Samething will happen with GaaS...

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Only because people automatically think that Games as a service is like a mobile game with loot boxes and in-game currency.

EvilBoris said:

Only because people automatically think that Games as a service is like a mobile game with loot boxes and in-game currency.

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Yup, people don't realize that any game with DLC/Expansions is GaaS not just Ubisoft selling XP boost but Witcher 3 having 2 expansion packs makes it a GaaS, Spiderman is a GaaS

Nothing wrong with it if the content is good, non predatory etc these games are expensive and theres nothing wrong with recouping the cost.

Seahawk64 said:

This thread is an example of how Forza Mototsport 7 threads used to go before Sony added microtransactions to Gran Turismo Sport...bu bu bu lootboxes...

All those sony fans that used to whine about lootboxes in FM7 suddenly disappeared after the addition of mtx in GT Sport...lol

Samething will happen with GaaS...

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Based on the sales they did disappear. I didn't buy for that reason.

Why would you expect anything else?

They have several projects in the works. This is clearly all pre-MS

Edit: oh, just saw the first page, lmao why do I even bother

What a shitty bunch of replies

"Fixed term contract" Miss me with that bullshit.

Rami Seb said:

.Any game that offers DLC/expansion content is technically a GaaS. That includes the Witcher 3, Spider-man, Souls games, Horizon ZD etc

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This will never make conceptual sense.
What if they plan a DLC but it gets canceled?
Did Warcraft 2 retroactively become GaaS after Beyond the Dark Portal?

Dr. Mario said:

This will never make conceptual sense.
What if they plan a DLC but it gets canceled?
Did Warcraft 2 retroactively become GaaS after Beyond the Dark Portal?

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I (personally) would consider it a GaaS when the DLC launches. For example I won't consider a Spider-Man a GaaS until the first DLC hits.

As far as older games its difficult to say. Technically they would fit under this definition of GaaS since you're basically paying more for additional content

Rami Seb said:

I (personally) would consider it a GaaS when the DLC launches. For example I won't consider a Spider-Man a GaaS until the first DLC hits.

As far as older games its difficult to say. Technically they would fit under this definition of GaaS since you're basically paying more for additional content

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Maybe you should take a look at
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_as_a_service

This thread makes me feel crazy for liking GaaS, especially in singleplayer games. If it's fundamentally a good game, then I'll welcome any opportunity to return and re-engage with the experience, whether that's through entirely new content or new flavours of old.

What a shock, people getting outraged over something they know nothing about.

What an embarrassing thread. Seems like a lot of people were just waiting for any kind of trivial info to post their hot takes.

[SHOCKING] developers want people to keep playing their games more than once.

I would never want to work in game design, but I would love to just shadow someone working in analytics for like three months

waveking said:

What an embarrassing thread. Seems like a lot of people were just waiting for any kind of trivial info to post their hot takes.

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So much this coupled with the thread title. OP knew exactly what he was doing.

As usual, sloppy moderation. But it has got to be expected now.

Dr. Mario said:

Maybe you should take a look at
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_as_a_service

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Is destiny a GaaS?

Brown Intruder said:

Is destiny a GaaS?

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You could bicker about the payment model, but there's at least a strong argument that without the cloud computing delivery, there would be no game to play.

Dr. Mario said:

You could bicker about the payment model, but there's at least a strong argument that without the cloud computing delivery, there would be no game to play.

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???

I get the feeling that everyone's idea of GaaS are different.

A game like destiny that has road maps, season passes and is monetized that way is for me a GaaS.

Am I wrong? Can anyone say?

Brown Intruder said:

???

I get the feeling that everyone's idea of GaaS are different.

A game like destiny that has road maps, season passes and is monetized that way is for me a GaaS.

Am I wrong? Can anyone say?

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That's because the term has been used more as marketing, as a way to shirk legal responsibilities, or for false equivalencies in online discussions, than for scientific inquiry.

"as a Service" is a rather well defined nomenclature for SaaS, IaaS and Paas. Anyone that wants to treat GaaS as something else than the game being an actual cloud computed service should be treated with suspicion imo. If you call a game with some DLC as a service, in addition to muddying an actually established definition, you're throwing away consumer rights for no reason.

This seems more like a studio trying to improve. Quality is very data driven nowadays. Now that they're a part of a company like MS, they may have to function differently.

Dr. Mario said:

That's because the term has been used more as marketing, as a way to shirk legal responsibilities, or for false equivalencies in online discussions, than for scientific inquiry.

"as a Service" is a rather well defined nomenclature for SaaS, IaaS and Paas. Anyone that wants to treat GaaS as something else than the game being an actual cloud computed service should be treated with suspicion imo. If you call a game with some DLC as a service, in addition to muddying an actually established definition, you're throwing away consumer rights for no reason.

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My intention wasn't to muddy anything.

I just get the feeling that no one really has the same idea.

As you seem quite knowledgeable, could you give me two games that you consider are GasS please?

I would like to know if your definition is different to mine.

GaaS becomes a problem to me if it interferes with game design. Period.

I'm not interested in open-ended and unfinishable games like Destiny where I have to invest hours upon hours to stay 'relevant'.
Even Forza Horizon 4 caught a bit of flak on ERA as to how it was designed to never end. There's no closure.
And it makes sense, with the Gamepass model, you preferably wouldn't want one-and-done gaming experiences. You want things similar to MMO's with a continuously moving horizon, grinding and trickles of 'content' so people keep their subscription going.

Personally i'm not into that game design model at all. It often makes for tedious XP/rep/credits grinds and incentivizes developers to pad out their games with filler content to keep the carrot on a stick present.
Give me a game centered around the experiences the developers want me to experience, with a good story and a satisfying ending. Adding DLC in that same vein is not the same as GaaS in that regard.

We'll see wether Ninja Theory is subtly 'influenced' by Microsoft's increased interest for games to be a service model. I'm not jumping to any conclusions just yet, this could be totally benign.

Hoo-doo said:

We'll see wether Ninja Theory is subtly 'influenced' by Microsoft's desire for all games to be a service model..

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Lol....Did you make that up?

christocolus said:

Lol....Did you make that up?

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'All' might be a misquote and exaggeration on my part, but I remember reading interviews with Booty and/or Spencer that certainly implied a changing direction towards increasing longevity and player engagement through continuous service plans.
I thought this was quite common knowledge.

Hoo-doo said:

'All' might be a misquote and exaggeration on my part, but I remember reading interviews with Booty and/or Spencer that certainly implied a changing direction towards increasing longevity and player engagement through continuous service plans.
I thought this was quite common knowledge.

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My point is that they never said "all" games would go that route ... and if we are talking about GAAS almost every major publisher including Sony is looking to increase longevity and player engagement in their games in some way. it's not just MS.

Ms has to differentiate itself from sony /nintendo.

One thing I associate ms with is strong online component. So having gaas model for them is fine. Only that it should be good and enjoyable.

Weird, I thought Microsoft's whole thing with getting Ninja Theory was they wanted more single-player games that aren't GAAS.

I'm not sure what this means long term so I can't say whether this is good or not, but it's certainly interesting.

christocolus said:

My point is that they never said "all" games would go that route ... and if we are taking about GAAS almost every major publisher including Sony is looking to increase longevity and player engagement in their games in some way. it's not just MS.

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Yet this thread is about Ninja Theory, which certainly doesn't yet have a pedigree of making games with the GaaS model in mind. They were recently acquired by Microsoft.
What Sony or other publishers do is not relevant to this discussion aside from whataboutism and still I would disagree with the notion that they are on the service-model train in a similar way that Microsoft are.
Just taking a look at their exclusives portfolio this generation would tell you that much.

We can only speculate whether being under Microsoft's wing is influencing Ninja Theory's development or not. It could be very positive, it could be negative. We'll probably have to wait years before we could say either way.

Well given that all of MS games on will be gamepass day 1 it's possible that NT will transition to GaaS to retain customers monthly and additional revenue via mtx. I'm seeing most if not all their dev going that way, as long as it's good I dont have much problem with mtx.

Hoo-doo said:

Yet this thread is about Ninja Theory, which certainly doesn't yet have a pedigree of making games with the GaaS model in mind. They were recently acquired by Microsoft.
What Sony or other publishers do is not relevant to this discussion aside from whataboutism and still I would disagree with the notion that they are on the service-model train in a similar way that Microsoft are.
Just taking a look at their exclusives portfolio this generation would tell you that much.

We can only speculate whether being under Microsoft's wing is influencing Ninja Theory's development or not. It could be very positive, it could be negative. We'll probably have to wait years before we could say either way.

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You made a statement which suggested MS wanted GAAS in all their projects which was factually incorrect and in your reply you mentioned an article you read were MS execs talked about changing direction to include GAAS and I replied to that telling you it isn't just MS looking into that. Every major publisher is looking into GAAS too... It's all within the context of this conversation.

Hoo-doo said:

Yet this thread is about Ninja Theory, which certainly doesn't yet have a pedigree of making games with the GaaS model in mind. They were recently acquired by Microsoft.
What Sony or other publishers do is not relevant to this discussion aside from whataboutism and still I would disagree with the notion that they are on the service-model train in a similar way that Microsoft are.
Just taking a look at their exclusives portfolio this generation would tell you that much.

We can only speculate whether being under Microsoft's wing is influencing Ninja Theory's development or not. It could be very positive, it could be negative. We'll probably have to wait years before we could say either way.

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Ninja Theory have released a video saying they expect the acquisition to be very positive for them. I'm not sure the rationale for your speculation at this point.

It's worth noting that several of the new IP exclusives on Xbox this gen are SP, contained experiences eg Cuphead, Ori, Quantum Break. Some like Sunset Overdrive and Recore follow the DLC model. There hasn't been a radical departure for the rest like Halo, Gears and Forza from what we've had last gen.

christocolus said:

Lol....Did you make that up?

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Definitely made that up to suit his narrative.

Theorry said:

NT isnt probably gonna work on one game. They have 3 teams i believe.

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They want to expand to 200 employees right?

christocolus said:

You made a statement which suggested MS wanted GAAS in all their projects which was factually incorrect and in your reply you mentioned an article you read were MS execs talked about changing direction to include GAAS and I replied to that telling you it isn't just MS looking into that. Every major publisher is looking into GAAS too... It's all within the context of this conversation.

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I don't think anyone ever doubted the fact that major publishers besides Microsoft are looking into GaaS in some way or another. I never said they weren't, it's a strawman you set up.
I'm more interested in discussing the topic at hand instead of going back and forth over something that wasn't remotely the point I tried to make in my original post.

Hoo-doo said:

I don't think anyone ever doubted the fact that major publishers besides Microsoft are looking into GaaS in some way or another. I never said they weren't, it's a strawman you set up.
I'm more interested in discussing the topic at hand instead of going back and forth over something that wasn't remotely the point I tried to make in my original post.

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Lol.. no one is stopping you from discussing the topic..by all means go ahead Hoo-doo.

I had previously worked as a Games Analyst at Microsoft Game Studios.

Among the titles i worked on, a number of them were single player (Quantum Break, Scalebound, ReCore).

It's not unusual to have games analysts working on single player titles.

LeFronge said:

I had previously worked as a Games Analyst at Microsoft Game Studios.

Among the titles i worked on, a number of them were single player (Quantum Break, Scalebound, ReCore).

It's not unusual to have games analysts working on single player titles.

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good to know.

Hoo-doo said:

GaaS becomes a problem to me if it interferes with game design. Period.

I'm not interested in open-ended and unfinishable games like Destiny where I have to invest hours upon hours to stay 'relevant'.
Even Forza Horizon 4 caught a bit of flak on ERA as to how it was designed to never end. There's no closure.
And it makes sense, with the Gamepass model, you preferably wouldn't want one-and-done gaming experiences. You want things similar to MMO's with a continuously moving horizon, grinding and trickles of 'content' so people keep their subscription going.

Personally i'm not into that game design model at all. It often makes for tedious XP/rep/credits grinds and incentivizes developers to pad out their games with filler content to keep the carrot on a stick present.
Give me a game centered around the experiences the developers want me to experience, with a good story and a satisfying ending. Adding DLC in that same vein is not the same as GaaS in that regard.

We'll see wether Ninja Theory is subtly 'influenced' by Microsoft's desire for all games to be a service model. I'm not jumping to any conclusions just yet, this could be totally benign.

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Thanks for your post. So for you a GaaS is a sort of never ending experience?

So world of Warcraft was GaaS before the term was even invented lol

Pryme said:

Ninja Theory have released a video saying they expect the acquisition to be very positive for them. I'm not sure the rationale for your speculation at this point.

It's worth noting that several of the new IP exclusives on Xbox this gen are SP, contained experiences eg Cuphead, Ori, Quantum Break. Some like Sunset Overdrive and Recore follow the DLC model. There hasn't been a radical departure for the rest like Halo, Gears and Forza from what we've had last gen.

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I'm not putting much weight in a PR video personally, i'm saying we can't say either way until we see actual tangible products released. And Xbox has had stellar SP games without a doubt.
I don't think i'm stating something 'out there' or inflammatory when I say that Xbox has been investing towards games with long-term engagement/monetization models. They haven't been shy in saying so. Gamepass is a completely natural extension of that theme in my eyes and in a lot of ways it's great for consumers who are into these type of games. Does it influence game design? I personally hope not. We'll have to wait to find out because it's still early days, not all games thrive on the GaaS model.

Pryme said:

Definitely made that up to suit his narrative.

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Way to pick up on the core message of my post, sheesh. I'll edit it for you.

Masozi said:

Weird, I thought Microsoft's whole thing with getting Ninja Theory was they wanted more single-player games that aren't GAAS.

I'm not sure what this means long term so I can't say whether this is good or not, but it's certainly interesting.

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People want Microsoft to make more epic Single Player, story heavy games.

If the games have those key ingredients, what does it matter if it follows a service model for long term support and engagement?
Are TLOU and Uncharted 4 worsened as games because of their multiplayer modes, designed to add replayability and longevity to the titles?
Does GTA V suffer because of its separate online mode?

Much of the arguments here are in bad faith.

It seems to me that base assumption of the OP "vague hiring proposition->Gaas" is quite flawed, even more so because it has caused the usual situation when Microsoft is called in question around here...

Pryme said:

People want Microsoft to make more epic Single Player, story heavy games.

If the games have those key ingredients, what does it matter if it follows a service model for long term support and engagement?
Are TLOU and Uncharted 4 worsened as games because of their multiplayer modes, designed to add replayability and longevity to the titles?
Does GTA V suffer because of its separate online mode?

Much of the arguments here are in bad faith.

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I never said that games as a service are a bad thing, nor did I say that Ninja theory is pivoting away from single player. All I said was that they're changing direction, and we don't actually know much. But go off.

Analytics is used in everything (Not just gaming) these days. Single Player Games are no exception.

It doesn't mean Micro Transactions are coming... It's using to data to gain insight and drive decisions.

For example Overwatch will use data to decide what to buff and nerf... That has nothing to do with MTX. It's about improving the product for customers to keep them engaged.

Analytics != MTX
Analytics != Multiplayer

MTX heavy games usually have someone who is a experienced economist background. This job advert is looking for a Data Scientist / BI Analyst.

LeFronge said:

I had previously worked as a Games Analyst at Microsoft Game Studios.

Among the titles i worked on, a number of them were single player (Quantum Break, Scalebound, ReCore).

It's not unusual to have games analysts working on single player titles.

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Makes sense.