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Rodjer

Self-requested ban.
Member
Jan 28, 2018
4,808
Thanks Kotatu and Jason.
There seems to be some confusion arising from my interview with Harold Goldberg. The point I was trying to make in the article was related to how the narrative and dialogue in the game was crafted, which was mostly what we talked about, not about the different processes of the wider team. After working on the game for seven years, the senior writing team, which consists of four people, Mike Unsworth, Rupert Humphries, Lazlow and myself, had, as we always do, three weeks of intense work when we wrapped everything up. Three weeks, not years. We have all worked together for at least 12 years now, and feel we need this to get everything finished. After so many years of getting things organized and ready on this project, we needed this to check and finalize everything.

More importantly, we obviously don't expect anyone else to work this way. Across the whole company, we have some senior people who work very hard purely because they're passionate about a project, or their particular work, and we believe that passion shows in the games we release. But that additional effort is a choice, and we don't ask or expect anyone to work anything like this. Lots of other senior people work in an entirely different way and are just as productive – I'm just not one of them! No one, senior or junior, is ever forced to work hard. I believe we go to great lengths to run a business that cares about its people, and to make the company a great place for them to work.

Full article here
 

CrazyAndy

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,071
Doesn't matter what he said. Most people have already made up their mind.
 

Star-Lord

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,794
tenor.gif

No one, senior or junior, is ever forced to work hard.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,526

Click and read the whole thread.

Sure, Dan. Rockstar never forces their employees to work insane hours.

I worked 80 hour weeks at rockstar until I had a breakdown. If I hadn't, my contract would have been terminated. There are plenty ways to force a person, fuck you very much.
 

gschmidl

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Dec 3, 2017
122
Sure, you don't HAVE to work 100 hours. We're not forcing you. Just terminating your contract if you don't.
 

Pulp

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,023
Here comes the PR talk. Nevermind that multiple employees have come forward and told about how it is there. Give me a break.
 

Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,724
Across the whole company, we have some senior people who work very hard purely because they're passionate about a project, or their particular work, and we believe that passion shows in the games we release.
Oh fuck off. Putting people who pump over a hundred hours into a pedestal is shit.
 

data

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,719
Usually Kotaku is known to be able to investigate things properly and collaborate stories.

I guess Rockstars gets a free no investigation get out of jail free card
 

Mórríoghain

Member
Nov 2, 2017
5,144
"...we have some senior people who work very hard purely because they're passionate about a project..."

Quick, hit them with the "passion" card Danny boy.
 

Kenzodielocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,849
Yeah, no.

If you are not doing the most you can, you will be considered not part of the team and fired soon. Toxic company. They have been since they got big, it's nothing new. We knew. We should do something about this.
 

Stalker

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,730
I remember reading about awful practices like this years back on RDR1? or maybe GTA about how Rockstar SD "forced" people to work crazy hours
 

Odesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,543
Anyone who just believes this despite everything we know about working conditions at Rockstar thanks to the Wives' letter during development of RDR and all the stuff that came out in context with Team Bondi in addition to all the anonymous statements on Glassdoor and the non-anonymous ones on Twitter never really cared in the first place.
 

Deleted member 8408

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,648

My thoughts exactly.

What company tells their employees "it's ok, you don't need to work hard".

I tell my employees to work hard during working hours. Basically don't fuck around during the hours I pay you and it's all good, but I will never force anyone to work beyond the hours they are contracted to.
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,350
No one, senior or junior, is ever forced to work hard


And there it is.

Nobody is fixed to work hard? The implication that not working 100 hours s week isn't working hard is exactly why people work themselves to death.

They don't want to be seen as letting the team down, so the optional overtime becomes anything but.

Working 100 hour weeks isn't working hard, it's working stupid and any productivity study shows that you get less out of your workers the longer hours they work.
 

TheWordyGuy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,623
This sounds plausible. A few people working 100 hundred hour weeks for thee weeks straight to write the story.

Everyone at Rockstar working 400 hours a month actually does seem implausible. I'm at 200 hours a month, and that's very, very tough. 400 hours a month just doesn't seem realistic.
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,751
here
i always find it weird how stuff like this happens and the spin is "no one was forced to do _____"

no shit no one was forced, that'd be against the law
 

DarthSontin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,032
Pennsylvania
"We don't force people to work 100 hours a week. If they can get their 100 hours worth of work done quicker, then they are free to spend extra time with their families."
 

Nugnip

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,744
"No one is forcing you, I guess you're just not as passionate as some of us!"

This is bullshit.
 

Polk

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
4,228
Lol, so there goes that other thread.
I mean I don't think anyone said they someone was standing behind developers with whip or something.
You think developers someday had talk and decided that they will work for hours all by themselves without crunch culture in Rockstar beforehand?

I remember reading about awful practices like this years back on RDR1? or maybe GTA about how Rockstar SD "forced" people to work crazy hours
It was RDR1. And according to anonymous sources they were crunching for 13 months! Over fuckung year of crunch.
 
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wrowa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,373
More importantly, we obviously don't expect anyone else to work this way. Across the whole company, we have some senior people who work very hard purely because they're passionate about a project, or their particular work, and we believe that passion shows in the games we release. But that additional effort is a choice, and we don't ask or expect anyone to work anything like this. Lots of other senior people work in an entirely different way and are just as productive – I'm just not one of them! No one, senior or junior, is ever forced to work hard. I believe we go to great lengths to run a business that cares about its people, and to make the company a great place for them to work.

Now, that's some bullshit. No matter how passionate you are, working 100 hours, 80 hours, or "just"60 hours is harmful and the responsibility of a good boss is not only to make sure that you're generating profit and release a good product, but also to take care of your employees and stop them from harmful behavior -- even if they want to.

Also, the whole phrasing is sickening. Long working hours are explained as "passion" and "working hard". Even better: "We aren't forcing anyone to work hard". So, what you are saying is that anyone who decides not to work inhumane hours is not working hard, is not showing passion? If that's the kind of atmosphere in the studio then you can bet your ass off that people do indeed feel forced to work long hours. After all, who wants to be the one who's "not working hard" and "not showing passion"?
 

HellofaMouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,168
"we have some senior people who work very hard purely because they're passionate about a project"

here comes the cory barlog maneuver. spin it, spin iiitt....
 

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,188
If if its not official, the social pressure must be immense.
'Everyone else can do 12 hour shifts, why can't you?'
'Don't you care about the project?'
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,069
LOL @ Dan Houser. He bragged about 100 work weeks like it was accomplishment.
 

SprachBrooks

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,353
Haha, gotta love the first posts thinking his word is gospel. Kotaku didn't even fucking challenge him on it -- unless this was a press release?
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
Even if this is true, it's still not a great statement.

"Some of our staff just choose to work themselves to death because they're that passionate and love games so much. Others don't, and that's fine too I guess. As long as they make their deadline."
 

Alex840

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,118
This is just damage control, but I hope the public's outrage shakes things up a little and they hire on more people instead of making people work more, they can afford it. As has been mentioned before, it's all down to poor team management.

A 2-4 week crunch period before release? Fine (as long as those people are paid overtime).

Crunch that is part of company culture for months on end during development? No. It's not healthy and it's not sustainable. We've lost great talent in this industry like Bruce Straley who rented a 2nd house closer to the Naughty Dog offices as he was too tired to drive home in the closing stages of Uncharted 4's development.

Even if employees are 'passionate', leads shouldn't let their subordinates work for that stretch of time. In the long-term, we all lose.
 

data

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,719
Haha, gotta love the first posts thinking his word is gospel. Kotaku didn't even fucking challenge him on it -- unless this was a press release?
Wondering about this as well.

Seems like some employees are arguing against the article though so it might be Kotaku supporting it. Hoping it's just reporting on what was responded to.
 
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