Mewster is waiting for his account to go through so he can post, but he sent me this.
Apparently something about this is horrible, in his words, but it's there 1 for 1 in the official translation.
lol, this is really blatant.
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Did Square use an Italian fan translation for TWEWY:Final Remix?
- Thread starter Robin64
- Start date
lol, this is really blatant.
They almost certainly stole it. They probably took it and then made some minor tweaks to anything that seemed questionable.
It's scummy, but they're well within their right to do so. The fan translators have no claim to copyright, so anyone can just steal it; including that game's copyright holder.
Considering that Square Enix aren't even willing to pay for proper FIGS localisations of any of their brand new non-FF game releases anymore, it's not surprising that they'd take this cost cutting approach with this cheap re-release.
BTW, the people are trying to say that language can only be translated in a certain way have absolutely no idea what they're talking about; and quite frankly, are being pretty offensive. For a forum that so frequently whines about how English localisations can vary so wildly, this attitude towards non-English localisations of text is borderline racist.
It's scummy, but they're well within their right to do so. The fan translators have no claim to copyright, so anyone can just steal it; including that game's copyright holder.
Considering that Square Enix aren't even willing to pay for proper FIGS localisations of any of their brand new non-FF game releases anymore, it's not surprising that they'd take this cost cutting approach with this cheap re-release.
BTW, the people are trying to say that language can only be translated in a certain way have absolutely no idea what they're talking about; and quite frankly, are being pretty offensive. For a forum that so frequently whines about how English localisations can vary so wildly, this attitude towards non-English localisations of text is borderline racist.
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There is a walkthrough of the game with the fantranslation, so if you want you can check that XD
I did that for about 30 minutes and it was almost everything as the fan translation,.
Yup. People complain about how the Fire Emblem games are badly localised or whatever but suddenly when it comes to Italian there's only one way to translate stuff lol
I'm italian and yep... this is pretty bad, and basically confirm at 100% that the translation was copied... what a shitshow :/Mewster is waiting for his account to go through so he can post, but he sent me this.
Apparently something about this is horrible, in his words, but it's there 1 for 1 in the official translation.
I checked it now (even though I prefer not to watch too many walkthough videos because one day II'll play the game), the sentence "Il mio nome è Sanae Hanekagoma. Nato il 3 marzo, gruppo sanguigno A." is identical, while in the fan-translation it was used the term caffeuccio instead of cafferino. They also changed "barista in un cafè moderno" with "faccio il barista in un caffè di tendenza", a better translation honestly.
Then the Neku's answer is "Non ti ho chiesto i tuoi dati personali" in the fan-translation, in the Switch game is "Non ti ho chiesto il curriculum".
It seems that some sentences are really identical, other ones instead are a bit changed (particularly where the fan translation is worst), like if the fan translation was the base on which they worked.
I suppose that Mewster, as soon as his account is confirmed, will be able to give us other information, I'm suew he's trying to understand even better this situation.
If done correctly, games are localized, not just translated word for word. You adapt similies, metaphors, idioms, jokes, puns, references, dialect, etc. to make sense in the other language.
it's seriously astonishing.
Like, you'd have to have never even taken an entry-level language course to think that. You'd have to have never exposed yourself to foreign media w/subtitles to think that.
the only way it's possible to have that view is if english is your only language. any bi[or more]lingual person knows how many ways there are to translate something from one language to another.
Ah, I remembered both the DVD (if I'm thinking of the same thing) and the trailer incidents. But I had no idea that trailer incident extended beyond them just lazily grabbing fansubbed video, to the point of actually using it in the localization, wow.
Man, some comments in here. If you've ever done any academic work you'd know how easy it is to create your own sentances, and how bad it is to not do it. I'm a total slacker but still common sense to me.
I can distinctly remember at least 3 times the same things has happened, in Italy, with italian fansubs.
And usually it boils down to a single person getting paid for the translation while actually stealing an already existing one.
This should be always reported so that the company knows what happened.
In the best case scenario the real translators would be credited (and payed), in the worst case scenario at least the guy stealing others' translation would probably be fired/never contacted again.
BTW, some people asking about if this is copyright infringement. In short, yes.
This works with translations of public domain books. For example, I can publish "Hamlet" in any form I want, it's public domain. But I CAN'T publish Hamlet in Italian if it was translated by an academic in 2002. That is considered the translator's work too. I would have to make my own translation.
This works with translations of public domain books. For example, I can publish "Hamlet" in any form I want, it's public domain. But I CAN'T publish Hamlet in Italian if it was translated by an academic in 2002. That is considered the translator's work too. I would have to make my own translation.
Square Enix don't even translate it by themselves. Like many other subsidiaries of japanese companies, they contract companies/teams of translators to do that and for the italian localization they probably used it as well.
This probably got approved by the review of SE Europe with them not knowing that it was like the fan translation.
This probably got approved by the review of SE Europe with them not knowing that it was like the fan translation.
I looked at the credits of the game and in the english version there was nothing for the credits of the italian translation, only a part for localization division.
Anyway, if it was internal localization or external, the ones responsible should get something for what they done. It isn't "Square", it's made by a person or a group of people that should get some kind of punishment for what they've done by the management of SE Europe, SE or whoever can do something about it.
Anyway, if it was internal localization or external, the ones responsible should get something for what they done. It isn't "Square", it's made by a person or a group of people that should get some kind of punishment for what they've done by the management of SE Europe, SE or whoever can do something about it.
That's Solo Remix, the years-old mobile version, not Final Remix, the new Switch version.
Only the English translators are fully credited. No other languages are mentioned in the credits, however https://www.keywordsstudios.com/ are mentioned in the localisation section, so I'm assuming they're the ones who handled the other languages. Especially since I don't see them mentioned in the Solo Remix credits.
Ok, so, huh, I SERIOUSLY didn't expect all of this to happen.
A lot of question and articles popped during these hours, and I could do nothing except read the shitstorm, sweat and laugh.
First, a few keypoints.
1) The translation was done by me and Mentz. Mentz gave me the tools, I gave the words (and the pencil). I don't know if this has any value whatsoever, but the translation was released on his website under cc by nc nd.
I worked on it for 3 years. It was my first translation, I was still going in high school (lol), I learned more during those years than in the rest of my life.
And yet it was not a great job. It was a translation, not a localization. But heh, nobody complained.
2) The only things I could compare were the main game texts I could find from italian streamers that were playing the game. I don't know anything yet about item descriptions, people's thoughts, and secondary scripts. From what I could see, in the best case my translation was the base used for their work. In the worst, as Robin64 said, they used it as-is, correcting mistakes and badly-written parts (except that fucking Spicy Tuna Roll, they HAD ONE JOB. I literally NEVER EXPECTED to find "Involtino al tonno piccante" in the official game. AND THANKS GOD IT WAS NOT ITS FIRST VERSION, it was even worse. I just can't wait to see what they did with Sho Minamimoto's mnemonics and math lingo. At least I made a better job there).
I took some screens, compared them using the official english script from the DS game and my scripts, and I can say that for the main game texts it's my translation.
3) I have yet to get in touch with Mentz. Those were MSN times....
This is what I think, too.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/322531838 here are the credits.
I laughed. A lot.
My personal intake for the translation was to keep it "speak-friendly" instead of "read-friendly". It was something I could hear someone say.
Those are the credits for the ios/android remake, I think. It had not other languages than english.
Also yes.
A lot of question and articles popped during these hours, and I could do nothing except read the shitstorm, sweat and laugh.
First, a few keypoints.
1) The translation was done by me and Mentz. Mentz gave me the tools, I gave the words (and the pencil). I don't know if this has any value whatsoever, but the translation was released on his website under cc by nc nd.
I worked on it for 3 years. It was my first translation, I was still going in high school (lol), I learned more during those years than in the rest of my life.
And yet it was not a great job. It was a translation, not a localization. But heh, nobody complained.
2) The only things I could compare were the main game texts I could find from italian streamers that were playing the game. I don't know anything yet about item descriptions, people's thoughts, and secondary scripts. From what I could see, in the best case my translation was the base used for their work. In the worst, as Robin64 said, they used it as-is, correcting mistakes and badly-written parts (except that fucking Spicy Tuna Roll, they HAD ONE JOB. I literally NEVER EXPECTED to find "Involtino al tonno piccante" in the official game. AND THANKS GOD IT WAS NOT ITS FIRST VERSION, it was even worse. I just can't wait to see what they did with Sho Minamimoto's mnemonics and math lingo. At least I made a better job there).
I took some screens, compared them using the official english script from the DS game and my scripts, and I can say that for the main game texts it's my translation.
3) I have yet to get in touch with Mentz. Those were MSN times....
This is what I think, too.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/322531838 here are the credits.
I laughed. A lot.
My personal intake for the translation was to keep it "speak-friendly" instead of "read-friendly". It was something I could hear someone say.
Those are the credits for the ios/android remake, I think. It had not other languages than english.
Also yes.
That's scummy
At the same time, don't expect anything to happen as fan translations might not actually be legal afaik
Just to clarify, I mean in terms of compensation for the peoplewho orginally made the translation. Someone could get fired for sure if SE wasn't aware (or even if they were)
At the same time, don't expect anything to happen as fan translations might not actually be legal afaik
Just to clarify, I mean in terms of compensation for the peoplewho orginally made the translation. Someone could get fired for sure if SE wasn't aware (or even if they were)
Here's a few things to consider.
- There have been multiple cases where devs would hire the makers of a fan translation to use said translation in the official version. Hatoful Boyfriend and Ys: The Oath in Felghana are some notable examples.
- Mentz (The currently MIA translator.) has done official localization work before. with the obscure Steam game "Guns n Zombies"
(Ignore the facecam, this was the only place i could find footage of the credits.)
I sent him a message on twitter and I wrote on the italian Romhacking page, hoping to reach him.
OH ALMOST FORGOT
One of the author of the spanish fan-translation told me:
"I just did a readthrough of Day 1, Week 1. The similarities between fan and official are very scarce, the only ones I can see are not enough to consider the official translation based on ours. I'll wait until YT has some translations of Week 2 or 3 to be sure it's not a case of someone doing the first day from scratch to be sneaky. Just to make an example, there's A LOT more identical balloons in the two videos you have shown in RHDN than in the Spanish equivalent."
going to bed now, ask what you want and tomorrow I'll answer
One of the author of the spanish fan-translation told me:
"I just did a readthrough of Day 1, Week 1. The similarities between fan and official are very scarce, the only ones I can see are not enough to consider the official translation based on ours. I'll wait until YT has some translations of Week 2 or 3 to be sure it's not a case of someone doing the first day from scratch to be sneaky. Just to make an example, there's A LOT more identical balloons in the two videos you have shown in RHDN than in the Spanish equivalent."
going to bed now, ask what you want and tomorrow I'll answer
Have you tried contacting SE? Geez, I wouldn't even know what to tell them, but they need to know about the situation.
Ok that answers one of the questions I had. Because I know the game had an Spanish translation and wanted to know if something similar happened here.
Still, I was very awkward, I only played the "tutorial" at the start and the translation was strangely worded.
Tbh no. I had the thought but... How would I contact them? The eur branch? The jap branch? I think this whole storm is already enough to have them alerted. And I didn't receive yet news from Mentz, so I can't say anything on his behalf
I don't think that this is really a storm at the moment, in the most important Italian videogames sites there aren't any news about it (except for one), even though I suppose that today the first articles will be published (after all I saw that in some Italian forums this discussion was linked). If Mentz answers you saying he wasn't hired for the translation, my suggestion is also to contact Nintendo Italia, I'm sure that they would also be interested to understand better this situation.
If this is true, I wouldn't be surprised if SQEX outsourced the localization (or do they have a deticated internal team for Italian localizations?) and whoever they used decided to go the easy way out and use the fan translations as a... "basis" for their job.
Other than something simple like "I am Famassu", you quickly run into a situation in localizations where you have to make some changes if you want to make for a quality localization that is enjoyable to read.
But... The same things CAN be expressed in 20 different ways. Even if you do a somewhat literal translation, words can have tons of synonyms, slang, regional phrases/words that all basically mean the same thing and sentence structures generally have some fluidity. That's even before you start adding some colour to your localization and/or adding some regionally appropriate changes (since direct translations are often clunky, clumsy, stiff and even nonsensical since languages have their own quirks and sayings that don't directly translate to anything comprehensible in another language).
Other than something simple like "I am Famassu", you quickly run into a situation in localizations where you have to make some changes if you want to make for a quality localization that is enjoyable to read.
Well since I was not trying to raise whatever has been raised it's still a lot from my pov.
About contacting Nintendo Italia, why them? What would be Nintendo's interest in a game that is not theirs?
Is that common practice in Europe? Because in Asia Sony do 80% of the translation for 3rd parties.
AFAIK there are specific agencies here in Europe for localization, some publishers, like EA or Ubisoft have a dedicated QA Localization team for their games.
Nintendo handled publishing the game in territories outside of Japan. As far as I know, Square Enix Europe and America have been hands off with the TWEWY Final ReMIX port. Therefore Nintendo may have been the ones to hire localisation for languages other than English.
Yes, for this reason. If I'm publishing something with my name and my logo, I would be interested in understanding if something was wrong in the choices I made and the actions other did without me noticing.
Then, as far as I know about the Pokemon series, Nintendo Italia is usually quite helpful (they made it possible that a Italian YouTuber could participate to the exclusive hands-on in London of Pokemon Let'so Go, for instance, which was a very esclusive event).
There's also that when every line is the same, the probability that it's not stolen rapidly approaches 0%.
Like, as you say, there's already a ton of ways to localize lines if you want to play things depending on characterization. Even something as simple as "I am Famassu", to steal your example (...and name), could become "Famassu's the name, posting's the game", "Famassu here!", "My name's Famassu. Don't wear it out.", etc. etc. etc. Not that these are necessarily a great idea... but you get the picture. String enough of those exact same choices in order... that's not a coincidence.
Because it really is "choices" in play here, and people do not make choice after choice after choice exactly the same in a vacuum. Even when translating, say, very stiltedly, not everyone will make the same decisions - or perhaps more importantly, the same mistakes - so it stands out. Unless someone's really fishing and there are only very vague overlaps, even a few lines being the same is questionable.
Are you sure you are not thinking of Trademark?
Copyright is made when the work is created in American and most places. A quick search says the same about Italian law.
For an example of what you would expect, the Spanish translation shares basically nothing in common with its fan translation. This is how it should be, purely based on how different people translate and the style they are going for.
This could be important to understand why this was even conceivable.
"I'm not getting credited directly for the job, so I'm gonna cut a few corners here".
People underestimating the Internet will never not be funny.
Can I just take the chance to thank you for your work on the fan translation? Without that I probably wouldn't have been able to play this beautiful game for a while longer. I remember starting it some time before the translation came out and having some trouble with it (probably due to the slang-like talk), your work let me pick the game up again and enjoy it a lot more.