If anything, this shows that there's absolutely nothing concrete out there. 2020 at the earliest (I hope I am wrong and it's 2019).
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PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Post E3 2018
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
- Start date
OP
OP
499$ for both... hmmm... I do not see it, at least as the entry price point. Maybe if one of them goes with a 1TB SSD or something like that, but it seems to me like a risk. Maybe there will be an HDD model and an SSD model available at the same time, which is not THAT odd and more possible in my view than much more different SKUs.
I still believe both entry price points will retail at 399$. I just do not see how 499$ could make that much of a difference hardware wise for a 499$ console over a 399$ console releasing at the same time. Will AMD even have something that much better available at that time? Or maybe a larger amount of RAM? More threads? An extra teraflop or two? I do not share the opinion about the hardware being already set for the PS5, neither.
Anyway, as I think I previously mentioned, it's strange how we have not heard about any gimmick rumor yet. The streaming device for the Xbox? The DS5 split controller so it can be used for VR? I want to know more about that stuff.
I still believe both entry price points will retail at 399$. I just do not see how 499$ could make that much of a difference hardware wise for a 499$ console over a 399$ console releasing at the same time. Will AMD even have something that much better available at that time? Or maybe a larger amount of RAM? More threads? An extra teraflop or two? I do not share the opinion about the hardware being already set for the PS5, neither.
Anyway, as I think I previously mentioned, it's strange how we have not heard about any gimmick rumor yet. The streaming device for the Xbox? The DS5 split controller so it can be used for VR? I want to know more about that stuff.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ps...ion-post-e3-2018.49214/page-185#post-13761677
Benji did not confirm "BC issues", he said the opposite - he has heard the same that there is a delay (except for BC stuff)
My opinion is that delaying PS5 for PS4 BC is an absolutely ludicrous proposition for many reasons. It's totally unbelievable, and rumors with that as the keystone should be dismissed out of hand by anyone with any sense. PS4 BC on a newer x86/GCN architecture is not some supremely difficult task that will take many many years for an engineering department of mammoth size and funding to get working at all, FFS.
The Xbox One is lauded as having "amazing" BC by "wizards", yet it's something like ~20% compatibility with last gen, half a percent with the generation prior? (mostly licensing issues, you'd think). Sony could start right now working on PS4 BC for PS5 and achieve better coverage than that by a 2019 launch. No ahead of time recompilation (therefore distribution licensing) needed, architecture will not change drastically. Hell, they could just download RPCS3 and that'd give them 30% PS3 BC coverage too for almost no effort! We know they have near perfect PS1, PS2, PSP and Vita emulators already.
Even if there were PS4 BC issues that meant it wouldn't work AT ALL for an additional year, I don't believe that's enough for Sony to delay launch, when they could simply say with confidence "BC coming soon", and not cause disaster among all the other parts of the next gen launch machine that are ready on time.
WOW.
So there are people here that think the X is outselling the S worldwide? Because it did so in Japan several weeks, where Xbox is non existent except to some some gaijins ?
Also funny that some people think casuals will buy a 499$/€ console because they buy expensive iPhones.... Casuals dont use their console everyday and intensively, that's why they are called casuals. They probably play more on their iPhones than consoles....
They would buy a Pro instead of a standard PS4 otherwise.
How many casuals you know bought a 20gb PS3 Day 1 (499$) or a One X at that price?
Don't know how it is selling in the US, but here in Europe there are already lot of deals on the X (399€ or 449€ with several games). One S are available for 149€. I guess people do care A LOT about the price of a console.
It would be a huge mistake from Sony not launching at 399$/€.
So there are people here that think the X is outselling the S worldwide? Because it did so in Japan several weeks, where Xbox is non existent except to some some gaijins ?
Also funny that some people think casuals will buy a 499$/€ console because they buy expensive iPhones.... Casuals dont use their console everyday and intensively, that's why they are called casuals. They probably play more on their iPhones than consoles....
They would buy a Pro instead of a standard PS4 otherwise.
How many casuals you know bought a 20gb PS3 Day 1 (499$) or a One X at that price?
Don't know how it is selling in the US, but here in Europe there are already lot of deals on the X (399€ or 449€ with several games). One S are available for 149€. I guess people do care A LOT about the price of a console.
It would be a huge mistake from Sony not launching at 399$/€.
So you're saying it's just the gaijins that buy XB1X in Japan. That would be all the more reason to extrapolate the MC numbers to the west, where gaijins are the actual majority.
Just gone over all those posts again and you are right....The weird thing is Benji then made a post saying:
Benji said:
I guess he just meant hearing about a delay rather than the specific reason(s)? Just shows how we interpret/read things differently!
Yeah Benji also spesifically said he hadn't heard about BC issues .
We have one person saying BC caused the delay .when in 2017 we heard the BC is there and around same time we heard Sony is thinking of delay . Which at that time people were saying it's cause ps4 is not declining like they were expecting it to decline .
Activision simply don't give a fuck about their listings. When it's time for next gen, they'll advertise as such. Their "launch" title was in fact a cross gen title and stayed that way well into this generation. Also, I believe Sony will want to get the jump on MS. Not in launch window(s) but in exclusive games and content. TLOU2, Ghost Of Tsushima, and COD being showcased on their PS5 will lead to similar scenes we saw in Germany at the start of this generation. Also because XBOX's new studios are not ready to build momentum in 2019.
2020 seems like a more competitive year between XBOX and PS. Also when it comes to the console space let's not forget this little caveat.
"History has shown us that the first company to reach 10 million in console sales wins the generation battle."
https://kotaku.com/5009041/ms-still...ole-war-xbox-360-pushes-past-10-million-in-us
If BC software is needed; Sony working with AMD on Navi is likely to ensure the hardware can support PS4 BC. We heard rumors of Sony working with AMD on Navi and we now have a reason. BC should have been confirmed with the Navi design. BC software at that point (2017 or earlier) is not finished and required waiting for final Navi GPUs and assembly on MCM or whatever for testing which would have occurred early 2018 or so.
The rumored rush, AMD transferring 2/3 of the GPU team to the Sony-AMD Navi design team at the same time Vega was being designed, sets a timetable for a 2019 release before or after AMD releases Navi as a dGPU and likely later a iGPU; before or after is then the question.
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Whoever launches first will win this time around without a doubt.
Plus, I don't mind if they have 2 SKUs at launch.. Let's see what happens
To be fair, Benji's posts are so purposely vague and full of caveats he wins no matter what the outcome.
The idea that Sony didn't have BC planned from the get-go is... unlikely.
Here's the thing about BC.
There is a big difference between BC in regards to 'PS5 will have support BC with PS4 games and what you bought on PS4 will be immediately accessible on PS5' vs 'PS5 will support BC with PS4 games, but you have to rebuy them/play them via PSNow/etc."
Remember when Jim Ryan made fun about BC? But behind the scenes, they actually had a working PSP emulator ( that could swap graphical assets in real-time ) and a working PS2 emulator? Or how part of their first-party portfolio involved remasters and remakes of older games?
The very existence of PSNow as a service offering that will presumably be supported on all PlayStation devices moving forward, and since download feature is available on PSNow - necessitates BC at a fundamental level. It makes zero sense to have a PS5 that was not designed with BC in mind.
There's always been a part of Sony's game division that was dedicated to legacy titles, and have services that require the support the need to deliver legacy games.
The difference was - of course - whether or not Sony wanted to offer the legacy titles to you - the same way the competitors are offering.
For the past several years, Sony's BC offering was literally a B2B-based offering where the emulator is offered to publishers first-and-foremost as a way for them ( and Sony ) to monetise legacy games, and cutting off their old legacy programme. We see that now with games like Castlevania too, where it is probably a B2B deal with Konami utilising Sony's emulator offering.
So the question is - will Sony do that with PS4 games too?
It's safe to say that it's extremely unlikely due to the competitive environment (Xbox is surely to offer disc-supported BC out the gate for XB1 titles on Scarlett ), and the market environment where it's becoming a more expensive and difficult proposition to sell the fact that you have to rebuy or upgrade your game version from one platform to the next. ( early this gen had that, where you could upgrade your versions )
Here's the thing about BC.
There is a big difference between BC in regards to 'PS5 will have support BC with PS4 games and what you bought on PS4 will be immediately accessible on PS5' vs 'PS5 will support BC with PS4 games, but you have to rebuy them/play them via PSNow/etc."
Remember when Jim Ryan made fun about BC? But behind the scenes, they actually had a working PSP emulator ( that could swap graphical assets in real-time ) and a working PS2 emulator? Or how part of their first-party portfolio involved remasters and remakes of older games?
The very existence of PSNow as a service offering that will presumably be supported on all PlayStation devices moving forward, and since download feature is available on PSNow - necessitates BC at a fundamental level. It makes zero sense to have a PS5 that was not designed with BC in mind.
There's always been a part of Sony's game division that was dedicated to legacy titles, and have services that require the support the need to deliver legacy games.
The difference was - of course - whether or not Sony wanted to offer the legacy titles to you - the same way the competitors are offering.
For the past several years, Sony's BC offering was literally a B2B-based offering where the emulator is offered to publishers first-and-foremost as a way for them ( and Sony ) to monetise legacy games, and cutting off their old legacy programme. We see that now with games like Castlevania too, where it is probably a B2B deal with Konami utilising Sony's emulator offering.
So the question is - will Sony do that with PS4 games too?
It's safe to say that it's extremely unlikely due to the competitive environment (Xbox is surely to offer disc-supported BC out the gate for XB1 titles on Scarlett ), and the market environment where it's becoming a more expensive and difficult proposition to sell the fact that you have to rebuy or upgrade your game version from one platform to the next. ( early this gen had that, where you could upgrade your versions )
Streaming may shake things up a bit.
The first to 10mill is not true because the PS3 beat the 360.
BS.
I've stuck to the same thing from Day 1 in posting in here
-2019 was at one point a potential launch year for PS5
-Hardware timing was not the deciding factor for launch
-Due to software and business decisions the date is now 2020
- Developers do not have dev kits yet in any large scale capacity and are using loose spec Ryzen based PCs atm
They are using off the shelf Ryzen CPUs and maybe a Vega 64?.. Is the lack of Dev kits due to the lack of TSMC 7nm production line maybe due to Apple?
I agree but we have to remember that Microsoft chose to support XB1 software under a VM and Sony chose to be more to the metal, it will be easier for Xbox1 than for PS4.
Sony has APIs for things like True Audio and it appears that PS4s used ARM Tensilica DSPs for true audio but from about 2016 AMD GPUs can reserve CUs and support True Audio with GPGPU cutting costs. Both Sony and Microsoft did not allow direct calls to True Audio hardware for a reason. If Sony eliminates the Tensilica DSPs in favor GPGPU, the same APIs are used and the PS5 game and APP OS has to be compiled to support that API. No big problem but minor issues with BC, the PS4 game needs to honor or understand the CU reservation or the hardware/emulation software has to support this. This to my mind supports local BC was always planned and supports your logic.
Direct calls by games to GPU hardware are the major issue for Sony and since the PS4 is to the metal for most of these, an emulation program has to be running on the PS4 to trap those calls and pass them to routines on the new GPU >> BC<<.
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Longer life cycle (it's not the only deciding factor and they could do this regardless, but it would make it easier), a smaller performance gap between PS5 and the next Xbox (I'm assuming it will be again $399 vs $499) and possibly no need for a PS5 Pro. If the decision to delay it was made in 2017, that gives them ~3 years. It could be 3, if it was early 2017, it could be also 2.5, if it was late 2017 (I'm H2 2020, but the announcement and as such the reveal of the specs will be H1). For a guy like me, without any technological background, it doesn't look unlikely. The PS4 RAM upgrade for example happened even closer to the announcement. I'm not asking, if there will be a major overhaul, but if there will be some upgrades along these lines.
Adding more RAM isn't exactly a full redesign but more of a slight alteration.
True, I mentioned redesign in an earlier post, but I also meant alterations, my bad.
I do hope the new consoles bring Zen at 7nm and GPU power minimum at something like Vega 56/64
Idk, I don't understand it. I mean I totally believe that this is what you have heard, but I just don't understand Sony's strategy here.
-> Hardware could be ready in 2019
-> They could launch with big AAA games in 2019, but possibly without PS5-exclusive games
But they won't do it, instead they wait another year. Which means:
- Microsoft will be able to catch up with their next-gen games.
- There will be a bigger gap between Xbox One X and Xbox Next, which will also help Microsoft.
- Sony and Microsoft will likely launch their consoles at the same time.
And for what? To squeeze a bit more sales out of PS4 (which won't help them in the next 6+ years)? To wait until Guerilla Games / other devs have completed an exlusive PS5 title? Or that they might get a bit better yields (which doesn't seem to be a problem in the first place)? Imo those things don't seem that important to delay a console, when compared to what they could gain. It feels like something is missing here. Hopefully we will get some additional information soon.
The 360 development started on Apple G5 hardware because it was closest thing available, it took multiple kits to get something representative of what's actually in the console, so it's common not to have "real" dev-kits early on.
I'm as ready to jump on 2019 as much as anyone. Business wise to me it makes more sense
But there is essentially no one I've spoken with that thinks that's happening. As soon as someone I respect gives me evidence that a 2019 is in the cards I'll be on that train.
But currently? Its overwhelmingly 2020
But there is essentially no one I've spoken with that thinks that's happening. As soon as someone I respect gives me evidence that a 2019 is in the cards I'll be on that train.
But currently? Its overwhelmingly 2020
Yeah the Ryzen based PC sounds similar to ths PS4 "initial 1" dev kit from VGLeaks:
Interesting that the vast majority of devs would only have got the number 3 (real hardware) kit less than a year out so a very similar timeline. I wonder if devs also received the PS5 PC kits in ~July 2018?
I think there's only 2 ways Sony can really fuck it up, one would be no BC, and the other a $499 or $449 SKI.
As a Sony fan I also would''ve preferred a $499 Pro.
I think base should be $399 and mid-gen refreses $499. $100 is nothing really, even if it's mostly to get a quiter, smaller, nicer looking SKU
I'm surprised such a relatively small thing would make you think twice. I would place Shawn's comments far higher up in the chart of PS5 coming soon indications!
Shawn's comments dont mean much of anything. It's mostly PR fluff. I have stronger indicators than that of the PS5 release time frame
The COD listing though is really really weird. Strictly because we know the exact cycle their games release which pegs a specific date
OP
OP
The theory about a third next gen console :^)
Does that listing specify 2019? It could be a listing for COD's 2020 next-gen game hidden under 2019's COD listing.
What exactly makes it 'overwhelmingly 2020'?
Someone you respect telling you this, or just no one telling you they have kits?
Is Matt not someone you respect?
For what evidence is actually out there, it's much more in line with 2019 than 2020. The only thing that seems to give any credence to a 2020 launch date is a lack of information.
I'm curious, are you being told 2020 by a trusted party, or are you merely not hearing anything about 2019?
I agree with this. Would have been a lot more "Pro" if they slapped on an extra hundie and a UHD drive.
That makes sense too. For the record I'm in no rush to get PS5, I would be fine with 2021. It just made sense in my head for a spring release to happen.
Did you hear all of this delay stuff before John Kodera took over or after?
I guess you already did that,but it might be smart to try and find out If there's a new COD game next year and If not then 2020 is basically locked. I guess It will be easier finding the answer to that then any info on the next-gen consoles themselves?
Now im torn between 2 ideas....
First one goes, if sony doenst have many exklusives left they must be launching sooner than later.
Second thought goes, First thought doesnt mean shit because sony could also launch later than sooner when there are no exklusives left to come out.
Been trying to get it right in my head for a couple of days now but i gues only time will tell.
First one goes, if sony doenst have many exklusives left they must be launching sooner than later.
Second thought goes, First thought doesnt mean shit because sony could also launch later than sooner when there are no exklusives left to come out.
Been trying to get it right in my head for a couple of days now but i gues only time will tell.
Leaving RAM aside, how do we see the APU? Higher clock speed can be even done via FW update after the release, but what about upgrades to it? Did the delay to 2020 come too late in 2017 or is that extra year giving them some new options?
Don't believe a single thing company bosses are hinting, especially during this period when consoles are not quite ready to be properly announced.
21. Jan 2013 - Kaz Hirai: "Why go first, when your competitors can look at your specifications and come up with something better?"
10 days later - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-3GMHIgR-U
Both.
I havent heard a single mention of 2019 being realistic at this point. It's either just no info or that its 2020.
If Sony launches PS5 in 2019 it's going to blindside a lot people, including those that usually are on top of this sort of thing
I'm thinking late March / April time frame. Mostly because of games launching in February. That is just my assumption.
2020 is a red herring then. It's what the general public expects. Doesn't mean it's going to happen that way.
I think Sony will go for a slightly earlier release date. August 2020 to get the jump on Microsoft who will release at October/November 2020
I agree that you can't believe them when they are denying the existence of something, but in this case he didn't deny something, he openly mentioned it. Why do that when PS5 is still 2 years away? To lure Microsoft into launching in 2019? This wouldn't help Sony. To make customers believe that PS5 won't be far away? That also wouldn't help Sony. This seems very unusual imo. Especially considering that, in the past, they denied the existence of a new console up until the full reveal
The problem is the Game Developers Conference (GDC) which takes place March 18-22. They typically use this conference to inform all developers about a new console, and also send out devkits during that time. Of course this also means that from that day on it won't be possible to keep the existence of a new console secret, that's why Sony had a Playstation Meeting in February 2013.
Normally I would agree but just his wording about getting 'a view into what their actives are and our hopes and dreams for PlayStation and WWS'. That is pretty specific and you would think PSX would be the perfect place to share that info....But they aren't doing it this year.
All most odd to me.
Ok, everyone is free to think that the X outsells the S worldwide because it did so in Japan. :-)
Xbox at 499 vs PS5 at 399?
DOA in Europe/Asia, except if Sony makes a terrible move (no PS4 BC, terrible hardware)...
I guess most people posting on Era are from the US?
I think Sony was testing the waters with the Pro and next time around they could for the $499 price tag
I mean it's entirely possible I'm working off of incorrect info on some of this or information that's out of date. I'm breaking the cardinal rule of journalism which is to make sure the info you put out there is 100% accurate. I'm not a journalist though so I have no issue talking about the rumors floating around. This isnt the same thing as when I talk about sales which is direct first hand information. This is wading through the quagmire of industry gossip which is filled with half truths and flat out wrong info