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Akira619

Member
Oct 26, 2017
46
Asia Pacific
I think it's about time companies bring back side scrolling shooters. I remember playing Gradius on NES, R-Type on PC Engine and It was a blast!

If they can bring those games to current gen console, I would love it!
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,872
They exist. Darius Burst on PS4 and PC for example. Most people prefer vertical to horizontal shmups because... Reasons... But I think modern widescreen TVs/monitors lend themselves perfectly to this genre!
 

angel

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,333
I really enjoyed Super R-Type and finally beat R-Type 3 (with some abusing of save states). I dont know why Konami don't bring Gradius V to the PS4 at a low price, or whoever owns R-Type Final doesn't port it over, surely they'd sell enough to make it worthwhile.

Darius Burst was ok, but nowhere near as good as Gaiden or even G-Darius.
 
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manustany

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,546
The Space
Yup, Resogun. Still game of this gen to me. I've also loved Sine Mora and Velocity 2X.
By the way I agree this gen needs more good SHMUPS, especially on Switch.
 

Mugy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,424
R-type Delta its too good.

Not exactly a SHUMP, but Omega Boost kick ass too.
 

raterpillar

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
1,393
Genre peaked with Gradius Gaiden - I'd love a new, ambitious Gradius like that (but I won't ever get one). You might like Super Hydorah, OP - definitely harkens back to hori shmups of that era.
 

Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
Genre peaked with Gradius Gaiden - I'd love a new, ambitious Gradius like that (but I won't ever get one). You might like Super Hydorah, OP - definitely harkens back to hori shmups of that era.
While Gradius Gaiden is the best Gradius game (sorry Gradius V) it's no better than Thunderforce IV and V :P
 

31GhostsIV

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,299
UN Squadron on the SNES (SNEZ!!!) is my favourite side scrolling shooter of all time, I would love for it to appear on the current gen consoles.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,231
Most people prefer vertical to horizontal shmups because... Reasons...

Do they really? Essentially all of the classics are horizontal.

R-Type series
Thunderforce series
Gradius series
Darius series
Gaiares
Einhander
Gate of Thunder
Lords of Thunder


If these count:
Contra series
Metal Slug series
Alien Soldier
Gunstar Heroes
Silhouette Mirage
Target Earth
*cough* Cuphead

Only Radiant Silvergun, Ikaruga, Raiden, Gigawing and Gunbird compare IMO.
 
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Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
Parodius Forever with Me is the best Gradius game anyway (sorry Gradius Gaiden, I answered too fast earlier). We need an ACA version stat :P
 

raterpillar

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
1,393
Nah, Sexy Parodius is the best. :P
It would be if they didn't make the cocking speed stage the second in the game. My fave is Gokujyo overall, just cause it screws up the least. Forever W/ Me starts strong but runs out of steam towards the end imo.
Also, the bell system keeps the Parodius games from ever being as good as Gaiden, and it makes me sad.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,050
Shmups of all types have been coming out frequently over the past couple years, it's not a genre that needs rescuing but more is always better
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,872
Do they really? Essentially all of the classics are horizontal.

R-Type series
Thunderforce series
Gradius series
Darius series
Gaiares
Einhander
Gate of Thunder
Lords of Thunder
Target Earth

If these count:
Contra series
Metal Slug series
Alien Soldier
Gunstar Heroes
Silhouette Mirage
Target Earth
*cough* Cuphead

Only Radiant Silvergun, Ikaruga, Raiden, Gigawing and Gunbird compare IMO.

Surely Contra, Metal Slug etc don't count... But that's a pretty interesting way of looking at things. Definitely something to think about!

I prefer horizontal personally.
 

raterpillar

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
1,393
Do they really? Essentially all of the classics are horizontal.

R-Type series
Thunderforce series
Gradius series
Darius series
Gaiares
Einhander
Gate of Thunder
Lords of Thunder
Target Earth

If these count:
Contra series
Metal Slug series
Alien Soldier
Gunstar Heroes
Silhouette Mirage
Target Earth
*cough* Cuphead

Only Radiant Silvergun, Ikaruga, Raiden, Gigawing and Gunbird compare IMO.

Most dedicated shmup fans are Cave fans these days, a company that goes completely unrepresented on your list despite their numerous games that are better than Gaiares, Einhander, anything in the Darius series, most games on that list of games that are clearly not shmups you posted for some reason and so on. This is coming from someone who is not necessarily the biggest Cave fan and who thinks their narrow focus on pretty bullet patterns and needlessly opaque combo systems has done much to poison the genre for anyone who doesn't have a gallon jug of piss in their room.
 

grendelrt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,586
Do they really? Essentially all of the classics are horizontal.

R-Type series
Thunderforce series
Gradius series
Darius series
Gaiares
Einhander
Gate of Thunder
Lords of Thunder


If these count:
Contra series
Metal Slug series
Alien Soldier
Gunstar Heroes
Silhouette Mirage
Target Earth
*cough* Cuphead

Only Radiant Silvergun, Ikaruga, Raiden, Gigawing and Gunbird compare IMO.

You are basically leaving out a whole genre though, almost all bullet hell shmups are vertical. You are leaving out Cave , 8ing/Raizing, Toaplan, etc. Vertical is definitely way more popular overall.
 

Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
Most dedicated shmup fans are Cave fans these days, a company that goes completely unrepresented on your list despite their numerous games that are better than Gaiares, Einhander, anything in the Darius series, most games on that list of games that are clearly not shmups you posted for some reason and so on. This is coming from someone who is not necessarily the biggest Cave fan and who thinks their narrow focus on pretty bullet patterns and needlessly opaque combo systems has done much to poison the genre for anyone who doesn't have a gallon jug of piss in their room.
I will have to disagree

You either dig the bullet hell genre or you don't

The lack of Bullet Hell games from his list is a clear indication that it's not his cup of tea.

But I agree some all time classics are missing from his vertical list :

- Ray Force (Layer Section)
- Battle Garegga
- Tatsujin (especially the second one)
- Shienryu
- Gekkirindan
- Star Parodia
- Spriggan (and Compile shmups in general)
etc
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,231
Most dedicated shmup fans are Cave fans these days, a company that goes completely unrepresented on your list despite their numerous games that are better than Gaiares, Einhander, anything in the Darius series, most games on that list of games that are clearly not shmups you posted for some reason and so on. This is coming from someone who is not necessarily the biggest Cave fan and who thinks their narrow focus on pretty bullet patterns and needlessly opaque combo systems has done much to poison the genre for anyone who doesn't have a gallon jug of piss in their room.

OK, and? There's are reason I said "classics" as well as the disclaimer "If these count". Cave didn't even start making shmups until '95, while some on my list were out a full decade earlier. I also didn't realize this was a thread where only the "hardcore shmup" crowd were allowed to say anything. During the 16-bit Shmup peak, Cave wasn't even known.

You are basically leaving out a whole genre though, almost all bullet hell shmups are vertical. You are leaving out Cave , 8ing/Raizing, Toaplan, etc. Vertical is definitely way more popular overall.

According to who though? During the arcade peak in the late 80s up through the mid 90s, horizontal shooters had way more play overall. Similarly once the games hit the Mega Drive and SNES. Maybe vertical took over now for those that still really care about the genre, but of all time and including more than just the hardcore?

edit: Do games like Space Invaders, Galaga and Galaxian count?
 
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grendelrt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,586
OK, and? There's are reason I said "classics" as well as the disclaimer "If these count". Cave didn't even start making shmups until '95, while some on my list were out a full decade earlier. I also didn't realize this was a thread where only the "hardcore shmup" crowd were allowed to say anything. During the 16-bit Shmup peak, Cave wasn't even known.



According to who though? During the arcade peak in the late 80s up through the mid 90s, horizontal shooters had way more play overall. Similarly once the games hit the Mega Drive and SNES. Maybe vertical took over now for those that still really care about the genre, but of all time and including more than just the hardcore?

edit: Do games like Space Invaders, Galaga and Galaxian count?

Yes they do, those are the first vertical shmups, hell centipede probably counts. When Toaplan split , the employee founded cave, raizing, and other studios, they didnt just start in the 90s. There are a lot of great horizontal, shmups, I play a lot of horizontal (shit I have skycurser man lol) but I recognize how much more popular vertical has been and still is. You are also not counting series like 19xx (including strikers), Rayforce, Armed Police Batrider, Battle Bakraid, Batsugun, Raiden, Don Pachi, etc

Lets take a look at the shmups forum top list, which is done every year based on member vote on an entire forum dedicated to shmups.

##. Game Score '02 '03 '04 '05 '06 '07 '08 '09 '10 '12 '13 '14 '15
01. DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou / Black Label (ARC/360/etc.) 7.66 * + + + + + + ~ + + + + +
02. Battle Garegga (ARC/SAT/PS4) 7.58 + + * + + + - - - - - = -
03. Ketsui ~Kizuna Jigoku Tachi~ (ARC/360/PS3) 6.71 . * * * * * + = + = = + -
04. Mushihimesama Futari / 1.5 / Black Label (ARC/360) 6.10 . . . . * * + ~ ~ - - - -
05. Armed Police Batrider (ARC) 6.04 * * + * - + = - - = + + =
06. DoDonPachi (ARC/SAT/PSX) 5.59 - - - - - - - - - = - - +
07. Crimzon Clover / World Ignition (PC/NESiCA) 4.42 . . . . . . . . * * * + -
08. RayForce / Layer Section / etc. (ARC/PS2/SAT/etc.) 4.15 * - + + + + + * * * + = =
09. Radiant Silvergun (ARC/SAT/360) 3.95 + - - - - - + + * + + + +
10. Ikaruga (ARC/DC/GC/360/PC) 3.80 - - - - - - - - - + + - =
11. Mushihimesama / 1.5 (ARC/PS2/360/PC) 3.48 . . * + + - - + * = - - =
12. Mars Matrix (ARC/DC) 3.43 + + - - + + = - + - + + +
13. Gradius V (PS2) 3.41 . . - - - - - - + * - = -
14. Strikers 1945 II (ARC/SAT/PSX/PS2) 3.29 - + = + * + + + + + + + +
15. Progear no Arashi (ARC) 3.22 * * * * * - - * * * * * *
16. Gunbird 2 (ARC/DC) 3.19 + - - + = * * + - - + + *
17. R-Type (ARC/PCE/PSX/etc.) 3.08 - - - - * - + - + = + - -
18. Dangun Feveron (ARC) 3.05 * * * * * * - - * * * * *
19. Raiden Fighters Jet (ARC/360) 2.91 * * * * * * - - - - - + -
20. Gradius Gaiden (PSX/PSP) 2.904 + - - - - - * - * + * * +
21. Raiden DX (ARC/PSX) 2.901 * * - + - * - * - * - * *
22. Batsugun / Batsugun Special (ARC/SAT) 2.84 * - - * - - - + - - - - -
23. Darius Gaiden (ARC/SAT/PS1/PS2/PC) 2.80 * * * * * * * * = * * - -
24. Under Defeat (DC/ARC/360/PS3) 2.64 . . . * + * * * * * * * *
25. Darius Burst: AC/EX/Chronicle Saviours (PC/etc.) 2.48 . . . . . . . . * * * * -
 

NeoPancho

Member
Nov 3, 2017
219
I'm terrible at playing them but i love the side scrolling shmups. My all time favourite is Pulstar, i hope it gets released for Switch soon!
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,231
Yes they do, those are the first vertical shmups, hell centipede probably counts. When Toaplan split , the employee founded cave, raizing, and other studios, they didnt just start in the 90s. There are a lot of great horizontal, shmups, I play a lot of horizontal (shit I have skycurser man lol) but I recognize how much more popular vertical has been and still is. You are also not counting series like 19xx (including strikers), Rayforce, Armed Police Batrider, Battle Bakraid, Batsugun, Raiden, Don Pachi, etc

Lets take a look at the shmups forum top list, which is done every year based on member vote on an entire forum dedicated to shmups.

##. Game Score '02 '03 '04 '05 '06 '07 '08 '09 '10 '12 '13 '14 '15
01. DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou / Black Label (ARC/360/etc.) 7.66 * + + + + + + ~ + + + + +
02. Battle Garegga (ARC/SAT/PS4) 7.58 + + * + + + - - - - - = -
03. Ketsui ~Kizuna Jigoku Tachi~ (ARC/360/PS3) 6.71 . * * * * * + = + = = + -
04. Mushihimesama Futari / 1.5 / Black Label (ARC/360) 6.10 . . . . * * + ~ ~ - - - -
05. Armed Police Batrider (ARC) 6.04 * * + * - + = - - = + + =
06. DoDonPachi (ARC/SAT/PSX) 5.59 - - - - - - - - - = - - +
07. Crimzon Clover / World Ignition (PC/NESiCA) 4.42 . . . . . . . . * * * + -
08. RayForce / Layer Section / etc. (ARC/PS2/SAT/etc.) 4.15 * - + + + + + * * * + = =
09. Radiant Silvergun (ARC/SAT/360) 3.95 + - - - - - + + * + + + +
10. Ikaruga (ARC/DC/GC/360/PC) 3.80 - - - - - - - - - + + - =
11. Mushihimesama / 1.5 (ARC/PS2/360/PC) 3.48 . . * + + - - + * = - - =
12. Mars Matrix (ARC/DC) 3.43 + + - - + + = - + - + + +
13. Gradius V (PS2) 3.41 . . - - - - - - + * - = -
14. Strikers 1945 II (ARC/SAT/PSX/PS2) 3.29 - + = + * + + + + + + + +
15. Progear no Arashi (ARC) 3.22 * * * * * - - * * * * * *
16. Gunbird 2 (ARC/DC) 3.19 + - - + = * * + - - + + *
17. R-Type (ARC/PCE/PSX/etc.) 3.08 - - - - * - + - + = + - -
18. Dangun Feveron (ARC) 3.05 * * * * * * - - * * * * *
19. Raiden Fighters Jet (ARC/360) 2.91 * * * * * * - - - - - + -
20. Gradius Gaiden (PSX/PSP) 2.904 + - - - - - * - * + * * +
21. Raiden DX (ARC/PSX) 2.901 * * - + - * - * - * - * *
22. Batsugun / Batsugun Special (ARC/SAT) 2.84 * - - * - - - + - - - - -
23. Darius Gaiden (ARC/SAT/PS1/PS2/PC) 2.80 * * * * * * * * = * * - -
24. Under Defeat (DC/ARC/360/PS3) 2.64 . . . * + * * * * * * * *
25. Darius Burst: AC/EX/Chronicle Saviours (PC/etc.) 2.48 . . . . . . . . * * * * -

So I asked if the run and gun games count, and I'm told "no" by the few who replied in this thread, yet elsewhere they do count as a "shmup". Just like Bullet Hell, it's a subgenre under the shmup blanket. The list below is 11:9 in favor of vertical. Many of which are well after the first two booms, one of them is even a freaking mobile game, so I'd hardly say that vertical is "vastly" more popular. At least not from that list alone anyway.

https://gonintendo.com/stories/283641-famitsu-readers-pick-the-top-20-best-shmups-of-all-time

Huh its 19 to 6, 3x as more. You asked according to who, I gave you a list from the biggest shmup forum on the internet. You honestly dont believe Galaga is a vertical shmup?

At a glance, I thought it was the same list as above, and then edited my reply. And I never said Galaga and Space Invaders weren't shmups. I was asking if they counted. Because why would those games count by the supposed "experts", while run and gun is dismissed entirely? What's the primary difference between a game like Forgotten Worlds and Contra? In one game the screen is perpetually moving and in another it's not, yet the overall manuverability compared to what's on screen is similar.
 
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grendelrt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,586
So I asked if the run and gun games count, and I'm told "no" by the few who replied in this thread, yet elsewhere they do count as a "shmup". Just like Bullet Hell, it's a subgenre under the shmup blanket. And yeah, I saw that list. It's 11:9 in favor of vertical. Many of which are well after the first two booms, one of them is even a freaking mobile game, so I'd hardly say that vertical is "vastly" more popular. At least not from that list alone anyway.
Huh its 19 to 6, 3x as more. You asked according to who, I gave you a list from the biggest shmup forum on the internet. You honestly dont believe Galaga is a vertical shmup?
 

BojTrek

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
337
Chicago
I met R-Type in college, the year was 1990/1991 and I was hooked. I had it on Turbo Graxf 16 and the arcade machine was close.

My roommate and I would see who could get further and the better score.

I used to get on a run where I'd be full power through 3-5 levels and get a speed up and I was just toooo fast and die...

I have never beaten the final R-Type final boss vagina thing with babies crawling... but I have beaten it with unlimited lives and just flew into the boss...

I'd love to figure the final boss pattern or strategy.
 

grendelrt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,586
I met R-Type in college, the year was 1990/1991 and I was hooked. I had it on Turbo Graxf 16 and the arcade machine was close.

My roommate and I would see who could get further and the better score.

I used to get on a run where I'd be full power through 3-5 levels and get a speed up and I was just toooo fast and die...

I have never beaten the final R-Type final boss vagina thing with babies crawling... but I have beaten it with unlimited lives and just flew into the boss...

I'd love to figure the final boss pattern or strategy.
R-Type on turbo was the game I loved to hate as a kid. I never did beat it either though, if you died late in the game you were so screwed haha. If you haven't tried it, Pulstar on Neo Geo (or newer platforms as a emu rom) is a great R-Type clone, I also enjoy Last Resort.
 

raterpillar

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
1,393
I also didn't realize this was a thread where only the "hardcore shmup" crowd were allowed to say anything.

You're talking to someone who just blithely dismissed hardcore shmup fans as people with piss jugs in their rooms. I just meant the games you listed are pretty arbitrary choices, and your notion of what delineates a classic vs modern comparables is equally arbitrary and was not at all clear - the whole post was really hard to parse, tbh, and I didn't interpret it generously because A) I just didn't see your point before you were challenged on it and B) I was disinclined to - you didn't interpret Poimandres' post generously (they were pretty clearly talking about the modern state of the genre, imo). Sorry if I'm rambling, it's 4:30AM here.
How the modern state of the genre got this way is a conversation worth having - I mean, you're right: in the heyday horis absolutely were on top. My favourites are obviously horis, going by my posts.
 

Tesser

Writer/Critic at Hardcore Gamer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
891
I long for an Ikaruga sequel...and I mean an actual sequel with that same art direction and manner of soundtrack - give me tracks like thisandthisthat I can MAXCHAINMAXCHAINMAXCHAIN to.
 

adamblue

Verified
Oct 24, 2017
248
DFW, Texas
Do we have the same shmup community here from the other place? This is my favorite genre. But, it tends to favor vertical and new games aren't as interesting.

Raiden V was ok, Sine Mora is even on Switch and it never grabbed me. Crimson Clover <--- that one is honestly amazing. Danmaku Unlimited 2 is great.

What I want is a new Thunder Force. That's my favorite series, even if Gradius V is one of my favs. With TF, you have stage variety, atmospheric music that gets badass metal-like by the 4th game. And awesome bosses.
 

Deleted member 6056

Oct 25, 2017
7,240
Sounds like some folks here need to buy them some Akai Katana and Deathsmiles!



Just a heads up but Deathsmiles 2x and its awesome evil xmas themed glory is on 360 digitally as well and its incredible. Greatly improves upon the scoring in Deathsmiles.
 

Frunkalicious

Member
Oct 28, 2017
287
Some recommendations on PS4:

Vertical:

Jamestown+
Great indie shmup originally released on PC in 2011. Looks and feels like a 90s shmup akin to what you would find in the great saturn library of the genre. Adjustable difficulty and lots of different ships. One of my favorites for sure!

Caladrius Blaze
Released on arcade and 360 in 2013, this game has alot of stuff going on for sure. Lots of ships and abilities with quite the story to boot. Got some lewd stuff in it but it can be turned off.

Ghost Blade HD
Despite its title its actually a 2015 dreamcast game released on PS4 this year. Great game even though its a little bit short (only 5 stages iirc).

Horizontal:

Dariusburst: Chronicle Saviours
To me, this is pretty much as good as it gets when it comes to modern shmups. Loads of content and near endless replayability. Fantastic soundtrack. DLC ships from classic shooters. Cant go wrong with this one!

Stardust Galaxy Warriors: Stellar Climax
So I never see anyone mention this game, which is a shame 'cause I really like it! Similar gameplay style to dariusburst and lots of customization; you can edit tons of parameters to make the experience just how you want it. The production values are not on par with dariusburst since its a indie game but its very much worth checking out.

Sterdenn
So this is a cool little rouge-like shmup. It doesnt set the world on fire but its still a great game to pickup for a daily run.

Other:

Astebreed
Fun and rather unique game thats mostly a horizontal shmup with some other stuff going on. Great production values and a pretty cool story.

Velocity 2X
I guess this is more of a vertical shmup racer if thats even a thing but I really enjoyed the fast paced gameplay. It might not be a standard shooter but I think it speaks to people who like the genre.


Its also worth checking out the Arcade Archives on PSN. Some good titles have been ported over from both arcade and neogeo like Pulstar and Aero Fighters 2.

So yeah, the genre might not be thriving but its not exactly dead either. I just wish we get more new games that really nails the formula like Jamestown in the future.
 
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j^aws

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,569
UK
I think it's about time companies bring back side scrolling shooters. I remember playing Gradius on NES, R-Type on PC Engine and It was a blast!

If they can bring those games to current gen console, I would love it!
If you like R-Type, you should pick up Last Resort and Pulstar - both by SNK on modern systems such as PS4.

EDIT: Pulstar, not Blazing Star (its sequel not available yet).
 
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Corine

Member
Nov 8, 2017
870
I remember going to the arcade at the mall one day as a kid and seeing that new R-Type machine.........I could have watched and played that game for hours. Such amazing graphics back then.
 

Host Samurai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,169
I remember I beat Super R-Type as a kid in 3rd grade. That was my first Shmup and I loved it. Tough as nails but I did it. Always preferred horizontal to vertical because it felt more familiar to me from playing games like Contra. Also its much easier to follow whats going on screen than its vertical brother.