But Sony is heavily involved in Navi development with AMD.doesn't make sense to get heavily involved in R&D and not use it .SO it's a Navi variant for sure .
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FT: Sony commits to successor for PlayStation 4
- Thread starter ggx2ac
- Start date
It's all stemming from a single article this year that said Sony was working with AMD on Navi. I don't buy it being a full fat Navi.
Of course not. It'll be Navi with custom Sony modifications.
Which signs ? You're basic your logic on assumptions and speculations from folks on a forum ! But you have NOTHING concrete.
Just the price of Xbox One X that came last at 499$ should be an indication than cutting edge techology doesn't come cheap. The latest Iphones were released and they are more expensive than ever before ! And you expect cutting edge tech to be the same price as in 2013 ? You're dreaming, but it's ok.
Tales from your ass.
Not a single Navi based chip has been manufactured so I have no idea where you get that 24TF figure...
...oh, that's right. From your ass, dude.
Pls don't spread misinformation as fact.
I think that price was more due to the ram than anything really cutting edge.
When the ram amount was listed, and we were guessing what the price would be, some of us said at a minimum it was going to be $450.
User Warned: Hostility towards another member
From the paper they released for navi . That's all we have to look at this moment (many links but here is one : https://www.tweaktown.com/news/55875/amd-launch-monster-navi-10-2019-next-gen-ram/index.html)
Edit : since I was wrong it was warranted for you to tell me takes from my ass lol .thanks for correcting me .
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The 24TF number is speculation on a dual Vega 10 setup. Not even Navi.
You didn't even read the article you quoted but just saw a number and ran away with it.
We don't know anything about Navi at the moment much less its performance, so again pls educate yourself a little better and refrain from posting speculation as facts. It's tantamount to misinformation.
Then I guess I made a mistake haha .sorry will edit that post.i was sure I was right :(
I swear I remember somewhere people were discussing the 24 TF entry power.but since I can't find it ,I will take the L lol
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The Xbox One X costs as much as it does because of the amount of ram in it, more than anything. It's not because of anything that contributes to what is commonly understood as "tflops". RAM costs as much as it does because of a world-wide shortage that's set to go down come mid-2019.
Also, phones are sold at profit. And a ridiculous amount at that too.
And you calling me out on me basing my logic on assumptions and speculation is really quite rich.
Anyway, I'm done with this conversation. I'm sure you comments will age really well, though, so it wasn't a total waste of my time.
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Thank you! Just because it's a different idea doesn't mean we should entertain it. It's not going to happen. Period. End of story.
Wut? Are you talking about another company? They did so much to satisfy customers and developers.
Are you one of those Russian bots? Just here to try and create chaos for the hell of it?
Yeah no way.
Sure. Just keeping it present-day-ish. It was nonsense anyway ;P.
Remind me to @ him when the reveal happens. I need to know the response. There's speculation, and then denying concrete facts.
Those are the old days. You can't sell hardware at loss these days too risky. And Sony shareholders would go into panic mode. Not a single of the console manufacturer is selling at loss. So it won't happen.
Early on I think they were selling at small enough of a loss that a single game or accessory purchase brought it up to profitable, but maybe I'm misremembering. The odds of any manufacturer selling at a significant loss are slim, indeed.
?? They went in this gen without being a clear leader, losing money badly as a company and taking a small loss on each PS4 sold.
They absolutely might take a hit at the start of next gen...they are in a strong position both financially and market-share, if they feel getting XfeatureX is worth it for XlossX they will do it.
I don't know. If customer retention is their goal, and it seems like it will be with the immense amount of profits garnered from services like PS+, then it might be entirely justified to take a heavier-than-last-time loss on their machines. Plus, Sony wasn't really in a great position at the start of this gen. They are now. And let's not forget that this a company that the gen before this one sold their console at 600 dollars while still eating 200 dollars per console sold. It wouldn't surprise me that much to see them eating like 100 dollars of loss on a 400 dollar sale when we now have PS+ and everything surrounding it bearing the load.
They won't take a loss because hardware business is different these days. And hardware manufacturers just don't take loss anymore. It's not worth it. Sony is an great financial situation and they are not going to jeopardize everything.
Selling at loss is a huge risk and it eats up your profits and margin, something that is NOT in line with shareholders expectations.
What hardware manufacturers are you talking about? We don't know anything about whether or not the X or Pro sold at a loss or at cost, and I personally don't know if the Xbox One sold at loss or cost, but I definitely know that the PS4 and every console before that sold at a loss.
Dude, doing that are into pretty much everything the PS and the PS2 earned them. Neither Microsoft or Sony will go with losses that big ever again. I'd say it's safe to expect Sony to continue what makes them successful right now and will in the future
I don't know why you're saying this. PS+ subscriptions and game sales will help offset losses. It's not all about hardware.
Do people actually enjoy arguing about nonexistent consoles' horsepower? This entire debate confuses me.
Not sure what you were trying to say with that first sentence.
And I'm not saying they'll ever go for losses that big again. But when they can spring like 40-60 dollars or however much it was while in dire straits at the start of this gen, then I don't see why they couldn't go for 100 dollars when are raking in money hand over fist with their immensely successful first party repertoire and PS+ subscriptions.
There is a very real possibility we might see PS5 launched in November 2019, just a year and a month from now. And if it's not that, it's still becoming more real every day. People like to look forward and think about what kind of a system they will be playing on a couple of years from now.
Oh I was saying that the losses Sony took with the PS3 nearly wiped out whatever profit they made off of their previous consoles. Sorry for not clarifying that better
That all depends on whether or not it's even necessary to do so. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, especially when it may not lead to greater growth and profits in the future. Also, were they really in the crapper in the beginning of this generation? I'm pretty sure the company overall was beginning to recover a bit before then, unless I'm mistaken
It doesn't matter. Did you check shares prices for Sony ? It's been going up a lot in the last years. That means investors are confident putting their money and expecting returns. Sony is not going to sell at loss. It doesn't make business sense.
People need to forget the era when consoles were sold at loss. It won't happen. You want 12 TF console you will pay for it 499$ or more OR you can finance it. Those will be the two options available.
Ah alright, thanks for clarifying. Yeah, the PS3 really was a huge disaster.
I think we had news stories going "Sony has X% chance of going bankrupt!" for a little bit into this generation, but I could be mistaken. The point remains though, they are very healthy now while they decidedly weren't at the start of this generation, and as such, that puts them in a far better position to eat some costs if they wanted to go that route.
And yeah, sure, it could be that they deem it unnecessary to go with a powerful machine, but on the other hand, there are a few factors to consider that may point to them wanting to provide the most powerful console they can possibly afford. There's the always looming threat of console wars, of course. It pays for games to look as good as possible on your platform, otherwise they wouldn't have released the Pro, or market their games using the Pro. Speaking of the Pro, I'm sure its success speaks to how interested people are in more powerful hardware. There's also the fact that the biggest AAA games are still making immensely demanding games, like for example AC Odyssey, which is making the base console sweat. Then there's Microsoft coming right out and saying they're committing to being the most powerful machine on the market. And on Sony's side, you have their seeming commitment in terms of virtual reality, which really benefits from a ton of horse power. And then, like I said, you have services like PS+ that could well be enough to fund this type of loss on its own multiple times over, given its 30 million subscribing base with a conservative estimate being them raking in a billion a year on that alone.
Anyway, my original point was more to negate the notion that it's somehow impossible for them to do it if they wanted to.
Based on what, you can't just state something like it's fact with nothing to back it up? Guess what, all evidence suggests the most recent launches (PS2, PS3 and PS4) all launched at a loss and Sony had shareholders. So that's my evidence to suggest it may happen again, other than "because I say so" please elaborate.
It's not. We are only having this conversation because some people want it to be true. We would have credible leaks about the hardware specs by now if it were coming out a year from now. We'd only be about 4 months from the formal announcement. In 2018 you don't announce things like this without leaks. We will all know when new consoles are truly on the brink of being announced, just like we did in 2013.
I apologise for the initial tone of my email, too. I did come across a little to belligerant, which wasn't necessary at all.
I guess I often get frustrated by the sheer amount of misinformation posters on the forum spread.
I respect that yours was an honest mistake though and I give you kudos for owning up to it.
That kind of maturity is seeming ever more rare on this forum.
As I said you can't look at what happened in the past and expect the same thing, because the world had changed since then. The narrative back then was "you need to sell hardware at loss", because the idea was to make volume in order to make lots of revenue. But shareholders were starting to put pressure to have profits and not just revenue. That's why IBM, HP or Dell moved away from some hardware businesses to focus on margin rich hardwares ( storage or servers ) or services.
But there is one actor that change all that : Apple. Apple showed that narrative wasn't right, you can sell hardware by actually making profits. Lots of profits. And you can see that this Apple trend moved into the videogames industry. When Sony launched the PS3 the cost of the machine was 800$ ! But as you know it was sold 600$. Could you imagine the loss ? The PS4 was making profits, that's how Sony turned things around. This is what Kaz said :
"From a profitability perspective, PS4 is also already contributing profit on a hardware unit basis, establishing a very different business framework from that of previous platform businesses"
So the message is clear : the days of selling platforms ar loss the old way is gone.
So yes PS+ brings more money, but the plan is not to use that money to sell a console at loss ! The idea is to use the money to re-invest it in new services and a better infrastructure.
The only reason you would sell at loss a hardware today, is if you want to enter a new market. Google and Amazon did that with their tablets for example. But there is no need for Nintendo, Microsoft or Nintendo to do so.
Source : https://www.google.es/amp/s/www.pol...4344/ps4-already-profitable-for-sony-ceo-says
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I know what u mean man .people were talking about that number with so much confidence that I had believed it .and when I googled Navi teraflops that link that talks about 24 is the first link .so I was kinda sure without even double checking .
Anyways I guess Feb 2019 at AMD conference it will be the first time we hear about Navi performance.lets see what they r cooking .
You have a bad habit of posting nonsense as facts with no basis in reality whatsoever and then acting like it's somehow a logical conclusion. You have been consistently terrible at shoring up your position in this thread. Make extraordinary claims, provide extraordinary backing.
"Please ignore 20 years of data, here's an article that I bookmarked" is not extraordinary evidence.
Yeah, i'm really lookig forward to it. Hoping they announce some Navi products with some specs. but we'll see.
Hopefully whatever Sony push out next feels like a generational leap in terms of hardware, playing games like GoW excites me as to what next-gen will look like. Not sure how they'll come in at a good price point for consumers if we want a big jump in specs.
Saying you can't use history is ridiculous as that's all you can go by! Also, you're comparing apples to oranges. IBM, Dell and HP don't make the money on software Sony does so it makes sense. And PS4 was sold at a loss yet has made Sony lots of money.
You're quote does nothing more than say 'previously we sold at a much bigger loss' (which we all know - PS3 was a big mistake, I'm not suggesting they go back to that!)
Point is, if Sony want to sell at a profit at launch then the machine they launch will have to be underpowered compared to what they could do with a minimal loss that breaks even on the purchase of one or 2 games. Bearing in mind that from that point you're in profit...every game, PS+, accessory sold from then is gravy.
Time will tell but I'm confident Sony would be prepared to sell at a loss at launch.
That's a pointless post you made. You contribute to nothing. You're the one ignoring facts here. If you choose to do so fine. But don't pretend I'm making false claims !
You are ready to say here that a company like Sony that is is in incredible financial health will "suddenly" turns back to old habits of selling console at loss ? Something that nearly destroyed the company ? If there is one extraordinary claim here, it's to say Sony would sell the PS5 at loss...
Imma wait for the PlayStation 5 Slim.
JK, sign me up for launch.
But you're ignoring the fact that Sony was losing haemorrhaging money yet launched with a loss-leading PS4 which has turned the companies fortunes around!? Why wouldn't they repeat that formula?
1. To use Apple as an example, the new Iphone costs in the neighborhood of 400 dollars to produce, but is sold for more than twice that. To put Sony or Microsoft in that same category is profoundly misleading.
2. Investors wanting profits does not negate the existence of a loss leading product. Consoles have always been a loss leading product, or at best, something that isn't there as their main cash cow. On that note:
3. That quote is from May 2014, a full 7 months after the release of the PS4. It's entirely possible that by then, they were already making a profit, while they weren't at launch. Aside from that, it's also possible that he's rolling attach rates of PS+ or number of games per console sold into that figure.
Also: https://www.polygon.com/e3/2017/6/14/15804708/xbox-one-x-not-making-money
Phil Spencer said:
I think that all he is saying is that selling at a $10-$20 loss per console with a plan to being neutral within 3-4 months when prod capacity is running full speed wouldn't really be a surprise. It worked well for the PS4, and the plan is that when bought with a game or two and/ or an online sub the console is already making money.
Sony did not sold the PS4 at loss. The cost of parts for the PS4 was 381$ vs a 399$ retail price. Of course this doesn't take in consideration marketing or R&D cost but this is not the situation of the PS3 where Sony was losing up 300$ on each PS3 sold. Jesus can we at least get the facts right.
Source : https://www.google.es/amp/s/www.for...port-sony-near-to-profit-on-ps4-hardware/amp/
Indeed.
https://www.cnet.com/news/playstation-4-to-sell-at-a-loss-but-sony-expects-profit/
"According to Eurogamer, It said that after a gamer buys a PlayStation 4 for $399, as long as they buy a new game from the device maker and open a PlayStation Plus account, Sony will be able to generate a slight profit on that person."
"It's not clear how much Sony will lose on each PlayStation 4 sale. However, Eurogamer claims that it could be in the $60 range, citing "well-placed" sources."
What I'm suggesting is that potentially Sony could 'meet the consumer half-way' - a $450 machine with a slightly larger leading loss to release the best 'bang for buck'. As they are in an infinitely better position for the next gen than they were at the launch of PS4 why not!?
See my other posts. PS4 was sold at a loss. You do realise building something is just one factor?